Have you contacted NARA? http://www.archives.gov/research_room/genealogy/research_topics/naturalization_records.html If you have the names and date they may be able to help you. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:57 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] River Traffic > Gary's terrific piece on river boats reminds me that I have been searching > for the ship my great grand parents sailed on from England sometime in 1870 when > they arrived in St Louis. > > They were Harrison Alfred and Mary Dunn Vie. They married in Hull, England > and set sail just a few days after, between the spring and the winter. They > honeymooned two months later in St Louis and stayed to raise a family. This is the > lawful side of my tree. > > I have searched every site known with no luck, can anyone help?----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. > >

The Grand Marshal of STL street names has not yet been found but we can give credit to Georgia for pointing me at this.----Jim ------------------------------------------------------- After swearing off his attempts at being an entrepreneur in Europe, Gratiot returned to St. Louis, where he accumulated large amounts of real estate, and also had interests in milling, salt making, farming, distilling, tanning and mining. His daughters married into the Chouteau family and formed other important alliances with the leading families of the town, including the Labbadies and Cabannes. His daughter Louise was known as the most beautiful woman in St. Louis; she married Jules De Mun in 1813. Gratiot's son, Charles Gratiot, Jr., was one of the earliest graduates of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, served during the War of 1812, and eventually became a brigadier general in the Army Corps of Engineers. Note: Ladies, take heart, I have never seen an ugly woman in ST Louis, but some of the guys are a little marginal.----Jim Charles Gratiot hosted William Clark when he made an official visit to St. Louis in 1795 for the U.S. Army. Gratiot also assisted Meriwether Lewis in 1803-04 as a translator and witness in his dealings with the Spanish Governor, Charles Dehault Delassus. On March 9-10, 1804, Gratiot signed the transfer document which delivered Upper Louisiana from Spain to the United States as an official witness (see Block 6). He also rode with Meriwether Lewis overland to link up with the Corps of Discovery at St. Charles on May 20, 1804. After the American takeover of the province Gratiot was appointed as judge of the court of common pleas, justice of the peace and clerk of the board of land commissioners. He died of a stroke in St. Louis on April 20, 1817, leaving vast amounts of real estate to his widow and eight surviving children. Victoire Chouteau Gratiot died in 1825.

I've always heard GRAT-ee-ot...but then I used to say grav-WAH for Gravois. But I DO know how to say Tchoupitulous, Lafayette and Burgundy in New Orleans! Had a crash course last year... Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:38 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] How Do You Pronounce > I am a foreigner in my own land and need help with pronunciation. > > How do you pronounce: "Gratiot Street?" > A. Gra- toyt? > B. Grat-chut? > C. Gra-tote? > I was involved in a spirited discussion with a family member and need help. > > Also, Map Quest shows there are three streets directly south of the tracks > that go under Fourteenth Street just north of Chouteau. I only remember Papin > Street running into Fourteenth St. Do all three streets now run into Fourteenth? > (Gratiot, Singleton and Papin Streets.) > > And finally, Where was 415 south Fourteenth Street in 1885? Was there a > viaduct over Fourteenth Street that year?----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >

Yeah, I know the feeling, Jim. I still pronounce sink-zinc. I ship sinks with a "s" sound in the beginning but I wash my hands in a Zinc like all the old St. Louis Germans do.

Hey Jim, Like Cratchit of Scrooge fame only replace the C and make it sound like Gratchit. But as the kids say "Whatever". Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

<A HREF="http://www.civilwarstlouis.com/Gratiot/gratiotfaq.htm">Gratiot Street Prison FAQ</A> Check out this page! Well, shut my mouth! Don't believe him. I still think it is Gra-tee-oh

So far we have: Six. . .Gra-she-oh One. . .Gra-tote One. . .Gra-tee-oh One. . .Gra-shut Four. . .Gra-chut One. . . Gra-toyt If we can't agree on what's right, who should we appoint Grand Marshal of St Louis Street names? Can you imagine my discomfort when I entered college in 1960 and was told that j-u-s-t was not pronounced "jist" or t-h-e-m was not pronounced "dem" and other words were not pronounced in perfectly good St Louis street language as I was pronouncing them? Such a tight _ _ _ed world. There has been no input on the other two questions. I am still waiting patiently.----Jim

In a message dated 12/17/03 17:39:27, Jims505@aol.com writes: > I am a foreigner in my own land and need help with pronunciation. > > How do you pronounce: "Gratiot Street?" > A. Gra- toyt? > B. Grat-chut? > C. Gra-tote? > I was involved in a spirited discussion with a family member and need help. > Jim: If you were a real foreigner (French), you'd pronounce it "Grat-yo." Laura's right, except the French would NOT pronounce the final t. OT would sound as O. In my surname, Bourgault, the ault is only pronounced "O". (And the G is HARD, so gault is GO.) Oh, those Frenchies had a lot of ways of spelling "O". Roy

Are you looking for the correct one or the way we say it here? Those are different answers! Gratiot is probably not even the true spelling...I would bet there was a ^ on that a at one time. it is important to note that this is io not oi which has a distinct sound. io each letter is sounded. So Gra-ti-ot. Gra rhymes with ma and ti is like do re me, and ot is like oat. So ma tea oat change the m for a GR (growling sound) and you get Gra-tea-oat. But that is not what we do to it here. We say Gra she oat or Gra-shote, among others. Just remember we also say Gra voy in stead of Gra-vwa. I love this place! We are so colorful! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:38 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] How Do You Pronounce > I am a foreigner in my own land and need help with pronunciation. > > How do you pronounce: "Gratiot Street?" > A. Gra- toyt? > B. Grat-chut? > C. Gra-tote? > I was involved in a spirited discussion with a family member and need help. > > Also, Map Quest shows there are three streets directly south of the tracks > that go under Fourteenth Street just north of Chouteau. I only remember Papin > Street running into Fourteenth St. Do all three streets now run into Fourteenth? > (Gratiot, Singleton and Papin Streets.) > > And finally, Where was 415 south Fourteenth Street in 1885? Was there a > viaduct over Fourteenth Street that year?----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm > >

I am a foreigner in my own land and need help with pronunciation. How do you pronounce: "Gratiot Street?" A. Gra- toyt? B. Grat-chut? C. Gra-tote? I was involved in a spirited discussion with a family member and need help. Also, Map Quest shows there are three streets directly south of the tracks that go under Fourteenth Street just north of Chouteau. I only remember Papin Street running into Fourteenth St. Do all three streets now run into Fourteenth? (Gratiot, Singleton and Papin Streets.) And finally, Where was 415 south Fourteenth Street in 1885? Was there a viaduct over Fourteenth Street that year?----Jim

This is a particularly good time to become a member of, or renew your membership in, the Missouri State Genealogical Association. Why now? Membership is on a calendar year basis, so, by joining/renewing now, you will receive the quarterly newsletter and 64-page quarterly Journal in a timely fashion and be enabled to submit queries (for members only) for publication in the Journal all of year 2004. Send $20 to MoSGA Membership, POB 833, Columbia MO 65205. For more, see www.MoSGA.org For past Tables of Contents see www.rollanet.org/~bdoerr/contents.htm Here's the Current Table of Contents: President's Message - Things Are Happening! 194 Editorial - Copyrights 195 Creating A Family Biography 196 Recent (As Of 1901) Missouri Deaths 198 Before You Post 199 Austin Family Bible 201 After You Post 202 Personal Attack 203 LDS U.S. Reference Microfiche Collection (2/2) 204 Huge Pecan Tree No More 205 Document Flattening Technique 206 Bertholf Family Bible 208 Richard Laffoon Family Bible 210 St. Marcus German Evangelical Church, St. Louis, Births And Baptisms, July 1847-December 1848 (3/3) 211 Crutchfield Family Bible 213 Missouri Natives In Dallas County Texas Census 1850 (4/4) 214 An Insane Clergyman's Death 215 Births And Catholic Baptisms, St. Peters Church, Brush Creek, Ralls County, Mo., 1860-1885 (4/4) 216 Morgan County Assessments, 1844 (4/4) 218 Births, Ebenezer 'Stone' Evangelical Church (United Church Of Christ), Beouf Creek, Mo (4/4) 223 Octogenarians Wed 225 City Directories 226 Births & Baptisms, Zion Church, Lawrence Co., Mo (4/4) 228 Jones Family Records 230 McCormick-Johnson Family Bible 231 Special Postal Service Payees, Missouri, For Year Ending June 30, 1871 232 A Woman And Child Burned To Death Smith Jackson (1834-1906) Of Washington County, Mo (4/4) 233 Death Of General Bacon Montgomery 239 United Confederate Veterans, Campbell Camp 488, Springfield, Mo., 1894-1899 240 Sad Death Of Six-Year-Old 243 Wunderle Bible 244 Book Reviews, by Janice Schultz 245 Annual Indexes 247 Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

The St. Louis Browns Fan Club is a great group that I recommend to anyone who is interested in preserving St. Louis' past. They have a great Old Timers dinner each year. For info: St. Louis Browns Fan Club 443 Fieldcrest Dr. St. Louis, Mo. 63119-4541 R. Emmett McAuliffe > -----Original Message----- > From: Jims505@aol.com [mailto:Jims505@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 11:48 PM > To: MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [StL-Metro] The Browns > > > It is obvious to me that our list member Christian Mentrup is > a fine and > loyal St Louis Brownie "Fan." A well rounded and > knowledgeable baseball buff who > must have been at Sportsman Park on many of the very same > days I was as a young > man. > > I thank him for reminding me that I forgot to give the > answers to the five > questions on Pete Gray. Here they are: > > 1. Do you remember which arm Pete Gray was missing? > 2. Which side of the plate did he bat from? > 3. What did his stance look like? > 4. What did he do with his glove when he threw the ball? > 5. Did he ever walk from right field? > > 1. His right arm. > 2. He batted from the left side.(The catchers right.) > 3. Heels together, knees bent, bat straight up. > 4. When in a hurry, tossed ball up, shoved glove under stump, > caught ball > bare handed and whistled ball to play. > 5. Not once did I ever see Pete Gray walk on or off the > field, he hustled. > > And there you have the info on my all time favorite baseball > player.----Jim > > PS > Can anyone remember if Pete choked up on the bat, for the > life of me I can't > remember, but I don't think he did. > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > Climbing my family tree was fun until the nuts appeared. >

The final encampments of the GAR and UCV were held about 1950 and 1951, 85-86 years after the close of their war, the Civil War. I wonder about the organizations of vets of WW I (40/8?); it is now 85-86 years after the close of that war. Although I am young for a WW II vet, I cannot expect to live 85 years after the end of WW II. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

It is obvious to me that our list member Christian Mentrup is a fine and loyal St Louis Brownie "Fan." A well rounded and knowledgeable baseball buff who must have been at Sportsman Park on many of the very same days I was as a young man. I thank him for reminding me that I forgot to give the answers to the five questions on Pete Gray. Here they are: 1. Do you remember which arm Pete Gray was missing? 2. Which side of the plate did he bat from? 3. What did his stance look like? 4. What did he do with his glove when he threw the ball? 5. Did he ever walk from right field? 1. His right arm. 2. He batted from the left side.(The catchers right.) 3. Heels together, knees bent, bat straight up. 4. When in a hurry, tossed ball up, shoved glove under stump, caught ball bare handed and whistled ball to play. 5. Not once did I ever see Pete Gray walk on or off the field, he hustled. And there you have the info on my all time favorite baseball player.----Jim PS Can anyone remember if Pete choked up on the bat, for the life of me I can't remember, but I don't think he did.

We'll do it again but in the spring. Let's give everyone a chance to digest the leads they did get and then we can see what other connections we can all make. By the way many of the list members asked for the photos of St. Peters & Paul School. If anyone can identify a year, or anyone in them, please drop a line to the list about it. Since so many have asked for them it might spark a few more leads. Enjoy the Holidays everyone! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: [StL-Metro] Laura's Roll call > Hi Everyone: > > I have been bursting with pride in our list ever since Laura started the Roll > Call. I just didn't have the time to spend writing many emails. I am so busy > writing and adding to the McQuillen Saga Josephine is starting to get a little > rowdy. By the way, it is no longer the "McQuillen Saga," the title is now > "Don't Blame Me." > > Our Roll Call brought to me: > 1. The location of my gr-grandfather's sister's family. (James Alfred > Brasher.) > 2. The birth site of my gr-gr grandmother in Texas. (Sarah Frances Carter) > 3. An actual picture of one of my gr-grandmother's sisters. (Sinie McQuillen) > Both girls were daughters of Sarah Carter and Robert Byrne. > 4. Another full line of McQuillens and a partial line of Brashers. > 5. There is sex in more than one group of churches. This one made me angry > that no one told me when I was younger. > 6. And finally, information about a childhood buddy who met a very > uncomfortable end. Always remember: "Crime Does Not Pay." Poor George. > > All this commotion has kept me busy searching and writing and entertained. I > hope we will have another Roll Call very soon. Thanks Laura.----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you haven't visited Dave Lossos' "Genealogy in St. Louis" website (http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/) you might want to take a lo ok. > >

Re: St. Louis Browns Haven't seen any Pete gray answers yet. Does anyone remember that the diehard Browns Boosters got together at the Roosevelt Hotel bar on Euclid and Delmar? I may not be accurate in my location and invite corrections. These fans were loyal to the Browns no matter what their record. The fact that the Cardinals may have won the Pennant and World Series did not interest them. The St. Louis Browns Fan Club had a get-together here in Kansas City recently when the Baltimore Orioles (successors to the Browns) were here playing the Kansas City Royals, (the team that won the 1985 World Series). Ned Garver was here. Surely he was the best known of the Browns mostly forgettable players, although I am always ready to supply more names. I was amazed to learn that the president of the Browns fan club had never seen a Browns game. I have seen many while growing up in St. Louis. I regret that they folded and the American League no longer has a St. Louis team. Many teams have been rejuvenated and have become winners. Apparently I am still " waiting for next year," the mark of a real Browns fan. Christian Mentrup Kansas City, Missouri Jims505@aol.com wrote: >I remember "Pete Gray and Bill Veek." (Veek as in wreck) > >1. Do you remember which arm Pete Gray was missing? >2. Which side of the plate did he bat from? >3. What did his stance look like? >4. What did he do with his glove when he threw the ball? >5. Did he ever walk from right field? > >Ahhh, the days of the STL Browns were grand and Brownie Boosterhood was >Supreme. No matter they didn't win all the time, They belonged to us.----Jim > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >I only work on Genealogy on days that end in "Y". > > > >

Hi Everyone: I have been bursting with pride in our list ever since Laura started the Roll Call. I just didn't have the time to spend writing many emails. I am so busy writing and adding to the McQuillen Saga Josephine is starting to get a little rowdy. By the way, it is no longer the "McQuillen Saga," the title is now "Don't Blame Me." Our Roll Call brought to me: 1. The location of my gr-grandfather's sister's family. (James Alfred Brasher.) 2. The birth site of my gr-gr grandmother in Texas. (Sarah Frances Carter) 3. An actual picture of one of my gr-grandmother's sisters. (Sinie McQuillen) Both girls were daughters of Sarah Carter and Robert Byrne. 4. Another full line of McQuillens and a partial line of Brashers. 5. There is sex in more than one group of churches. This one made me angry that no one told me when I was younger. 6. And finally, information about a childhood buddy who met a very uncomfortable end. Always remember: "Crime Does Not Pay." Poor George. All this commotion has kept me busy searching and writing and entertained. I hope we will have another Roll Call very soon. Thanks Laura.----Jim

As the Holiday Season approaches many families get together and we may even get to visit with some of the extended family we don't often get to see very much. This is a great time to not only tell family stories, but to write them down and to see if everyone in the family has the same story. Needless to say, when they are not the same, it can be hilarious. This is also a time of year when many folks are giving presents and some of us have made those wonderful genealogy albums or have written our family histories and are presenting copies to the other family members. (I did that last year and now they expect an update each year!) It is also a great time of year to take pictures of everyone and don't forget to label who is in those pictures (but be careful not to write too hard that the ink or the impression comes through). There are blue photo pens made that don't bleed through photos. I know several of us have photos of family...but we have no idea who those people are! I recently sent some photos of a school class for St Peter and Paul in the Soulard area out in hopes someone could identify even the year it might be...I am pretty sure these were from the early 1900s. Likely before 1910. It anyone on the list would like to see them, just drop me a line directly and I am happy to send you the jpeg to look at. This is also a time of year when many families go to visit the graves of those who have moved on...you might consider taking a wax crayon and some tracing paper to do a "rubbing". A rubbing is where you place the paper on the gravestone and take the crayon and just color over the top...you see the raised and indented parts and that is a rubbing. Here is URL that will explain it better than I just did! http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/t_stone.html I hope some of you found some great connections during our staged roll call earlier. I hope it gave some of you some of the clues you needed to get through some brick walls. (I know I made a very interesting contact with one of our list members and am hoping to get to the library here to do some more research and fill in even more missing pieces. I know she had some great information for me and I hope I can find out some more and we can piece together those missing connections). Have a great Holiday Season! Laura

All of my military records were lost but you should try the local VA because sometimes records were transferred to local VA offices for various reasons. If he was hospitalized you should check the VA hospital as well. I wish they had a depository for "unofficial records" because I could provide them with every base I was assigned to, date of rank, Korean War activities, etc. Then they would at least have something. Art Rideout At 05:41 PM 12/8/2003, Nannette wrote: >If you receive a statement from the St.Louis Dept of Records with only a >service date ex: because many were lost to fire...Would a local V.A. have >any more data on the deceased? >I'd like to get my fathers service records to see where all he was & ranks >from 1937-1955. >Nannette > > > >Nannette > >Reasearching Surnames: WARFIELD Mitchell McConnell HEUGELE Rowbotham >STIENECKE Summerman VanGels Berger COLLINS DUNNAVANT PARRISH . States: >Md,Mo.,WV.,Wi. > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >Search the Archive of Messages for MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List at >http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=MO-STLOUIS-METRO

If the vet received service from the VA there is a record. It may not give the information you are seeking though. The URL is impossibly LONG!. Just use a search engine for "Veterans Administration Records." Do not use this e-mail link for benefits, genealogy, or Service medical records questions. Access the National Archives and Records Administration (archives.gov) for alternate record sources with questions pertaining to military records. The admissions records are not specific or detailed medical documents, but summarized information indexed by military service number. They contain limited medical treatment information, but diagnosis, type of operation, and dates/places of treatment or hospitalization are frequently included. Although no names are shown, patients are identified by military service number and certain personal data including age, race, sex and place of birth. THESE RECORDS ARE NOT DUPLICATES OF THE ORIGINAL MEDICAL TREATMENT FILES LOST IN THE 1973 FIRE AT NPRC (MPR). They were created using data sampling techniques for statistical purposes. Therefore, the listings are not complete and many admissions were skipped during the sampling process. Nevertheless, the information is useful as proof to support certain benefit claims. Ellen Nannette <nannette_478@yahoo.com> wrote: >If you receive a statement from the St.Louis Dept of Records with only a service date ex: because many were lost to fire...Would a local V.A. have any more data on the deceased? >I'd like to get my fathers service records to see where all he was & ranks from 1937-1955. >Nannette __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455