Yes indeed, I remember.----Jim

Sody-reminds me of what my uncle called what we call "pop". He lived in St. Louis most of his life except for a 4 year period during the war (WW II) and a short time in Tennessee working for GM. Georgia Jims505@aol.com wrote: > Gravois, pronounced--"Gra-Voys." Small "a."----Jim > > More: > Soda=Sody > Sink=Zinc > Forty=Farty > Just=Jist > Them=Dem > These-Dese > Those=Doze > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm

Dear Ellen, If Thomas is the one in Calvary Cemetery, then maybe his mother is the Mary, age 66, buried in the same lot. Possibly her obit will give more info. Of, try finding the obit for late Mrs. John Hanrahn. http://www.stlcathcem.com/iSearch.aspx http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/obit.htm Did you try the 1880 census transcription at the LDS site? familysearch.org Try the library for marriage records for the males names. I think the library can look at just one index for that time period without knowing the approximate date. http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/geneinfo.htm Georgia enalibof@netscape.net wrote: > I have Mary Pendergast, nee HUNT. Obit of Thomas J Pendergast in 1912, identified him as her son, and listed his siblings as Mrs. Thomas Day, Mrs. George Guiteau, Mrs Joe Kelleher, the late Mrs. John Hanrahn. > I have no clue to the ladies' given names. Is there anybody who can help? Probably, we are cousins. > Ellen > > __________________________________________________________________ > New! Unlimited Access from the Netscape Internet Service. > Beta test the new Netscape Internet Service for only $1.00 per month until 3/1/04. > Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > Act now to get a personalized email address! > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you haven't visited Dave Lossos' "Genealogy in St. Louis" website (http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/) you might want to take a look.

List, How about Grash-ut? More: Illinois = Ill-noise Youse guys Courtois Creek = Coat-away Battery = battry Rinsch your hands in the zink Regards to all and Season's Greetings, Bill Streitz Shalimar FL (formally "from down on the Grav-voys"

I married a girl from Belleville and she taught me how to speak "mid-western". Where I came from we had breakfast dinner and supper and in-between we might drink a tonic and have a fudge iced glazed cruller. Art >Gravois, pronounced--"Gra-Voys." Small "a."----Jim > >More: >Soda=Sody >Sink=Zinc >Forty=Farty >Just=Jist >Them=Dem >These-Dese >Those=Doze > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a >look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm >and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm

Hi Carole Beth: Sounds to me like your little granny knew what she was doing. She sounds cute to me.----Jim -------------------------------------------------------- Hi, my paternal gm who was from western KY, called soda water, sody water. And worst of all, she called my baby sister, Marsha, marshee. My mother corrected and corrected her. Even my sister told her "My name is Marsha." But, she still continued. In the South, here in TX, Dem, Doze, etc were commonplace among Blacks. However, "just" was "jist." I always thought it was a southern thing. St Louis Mo was I guess the south, too. Carole Beth Arnette San Antonio, TX

Sue: I think you are right. I always spoke in STL street English as did my friends.----Jim

I have Mary Pendergast, nee HUNT. Obit of Thomas J Pendergast in 1912, identified him as her son, and listed his siblings as Mrs. Thomas Day, Mrs. George Guiteau, Mrs Joe Kelleher, the late Mrs. John Hanrahn. I have no clue to the ladies' given names. Is there anybody who can help? Probably, we are cousins. Ellen __________________________________________________________________ New! Unlimited Access from the Netscape Internet Service. Beta test the new Netscape Internet Service for only $1.00 per month until 3/1/04. Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Act now to get a personalized email address! Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

About 1993 I published the list of licensed riverboat captains and pilots of about 1854. If you need a specific reference and title, I'll look it up. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

Anyone remember the bus driver's call, "Down by the Gravois"? Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

Yeh, but: Properly pronounced French name: GRAVOIS: Grav-wah. (second syllable emphasis). Roy Bourgault (Boor-go) emphasis on the second syllable.

Yep, never got an answer back.----Jim

Gravois, pronounced--"Gra-Voys." Small "a."----Jim More: Soda=Sody Sink=Zinc Forty=Farty Just=Jist Them=Dem These-Dese Those=Doze

Jim: Super!!! Roy

Hi, my paternal gm who was from western KY, called soda water, sody water. And worst of all, she called my baby sister, Marsha, marshee. My mother corrected and corrected her. Even my sister told her "My name is Marsha." But, she still continued. In the South, here in TX, Dem, Doze, etc were commonplace among Blacks. However, "just" was "jist." I always thought it was a southern thing. St Louis Mo was I guess the south, too. Carole Beth Arnette San Antonio, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] Gravois > Gravois, pronounced--"Gra-Voys." Small "a."----Jim > > More: > Soda=Sody > Sink=Zinc > Forty=Farty > Just=Jist > Them=Dem > These-Dese > Those=Doze > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >

Jim, I believe the S is silent... Grav-oy Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] Gravois > Gravois, pronounced--"Gra-Voys." Small "a."----Jim > > More: > Soda=Sody > Sink=Zinc > Forty=Farty > Just=Jist > Them=Dem > These-Dese > Those=Doze > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >

Google led me to Earl Fischer's Database of St. Louis names at http://www.stlgs.org/efdb/d231.htm Enjoy! Ellen Jims505@aol.com wrote: >The Grand Marshal of STL street names has not yet been found but we can give >credit to Georgia for pointing me at this.----Jim >------------------------------------------------------- >After swearing off his attempts at being an entrepreneur in Europe, Gratiot >returned to St. Louis, where he accumulated large amounts of real estate, and >also had interests in milling, salt making, farming, distilling, tanning and >mining. His daughters married into the Chouteau family and formed other >important alliances with the leading families of the town, including the Labbadies and >Cabannes. His daughter Louise was known as the most beautiful woman in St. >Louis; she married Jules De Mun in 1813. Gratiot's son, Charles Gratiot, Jr., >was one of the earliest graduates of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, >served during the War of 1812, and eventually became a brigadier general in the >Army Corps of Engineers. > >Note: >Ladies, take heart, I have never seen an ugly woman in ST Louis, but some of >the guys are a little marginal.----Jim > >Charles Gratiot hosted William Clark when he made an official visit to St. >Louis in 1795 for the U.S. Army. Gratiot also assisted Meriwether Lewis in >1803-04 as a translator and witness in his dealings with the Spanish Governor, >Charles Dehault Delassus. On March 9-10, 1804, Gratiot signed the transfer >document which delivered Upper Louisiana from Spain to the United States as an >official witness (see Block 6). He also rode with Meriwether Lewis overland to link >up with the Corps of Discovery at St. Charles on May 20, 1804. After the >American takeover of the province Gratiot was appointed as judge of the court of >common pleas, justice of the peace and clerk of the board of land commissioners. >He died of a stroke in St. Louis on April 20, 1817, leaving vast amounts of >real estate to his widow and eight surviving children. Victoire Chouteau >Gratiot died in 1825. > > > > > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list, email MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L-request@rootsweb.com; in the subject line, put only the word UNSUBSCRIBE with nothing in the message body. You can contact Michelle or Laura at MO-STLOUIS-METRO-admin@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________________ New! Unlimited Access from the Netscape Internet Service. Beta test the new Netscape Internet Service for only $1.00 per month until 3/1/04. Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Act now to get a personalized email address! Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Okay, I'll bite. How do you pronounce Gravois? Georgia In Michigan Bill and Lisa Kemp wrote: > I've always heard GRAT-ee-ot...but then I used to say grav-WAH for Gravois. > > But I DO know how to say Tchoupitulous, Lafayette and Burgundy in > New Orleans! Had a crash course last year... > > Lisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Jims505@aol.com> > To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:38 PM > Subject: [StL-Metro] How Do You Pronounce > > > I am a foreigner in my own land and need help with pronunciation. > > > > How do you pronounce: "Gratiot Street?" > > A. Gra- toyt? > > B. Grat-chut? > > C. Gra-tote? > > I was involved in a spirited discussion with a family member and need > help. > > > > Also, Map Quest shows there are three streets directly south of the tracks > > that go under Fourteenth Street just north of Chouteau. I only remember > Papin > > Street running into Fourteenth St. Do all three streets now run into > Fourteenth? > > (Gratiot, Singleton and Papin Streets.) > > > > And finally, Where was 415 south Fourteenth Street in 1885? Was there a > > viaduct over Fourteenth Street that year?----Jim > > > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a > look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm > and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org.

Gary's terrific piece on river boats reminds me that I have been searching for the ship my great grand parents sailed on from England sometime in 1870 when they arrived in St Louis. They were Harrison Alfred and Mary Dunn Vie. They married in Hull, England and set sail just a few days after, between the spring and the winter. They honeymooned two months later in St Louis and stayed to raise a family. This is the lawful side of my tree. I have searched every site known with no luck, can anyone help?----Jim

Lists: As I remember, the Eads bridge opened up a new commercial era for St. Louis in 1874. The city had relied upon the river trade and although very successful, had missed the chance to connect to the East by not building a bridge. There were also charges of business & political collusion in denying St. Louis a bridge, some by St. Louisans heavily invested in the river economy, that served Chicago's interests. Of course, Mississippi, Illinois & Missouri River traffic would keep up for many years afterwards but most eventually fell to the economy of the railroads. As was said by a businessman from Chicago (St. Louis' chief economic rival), "Rivers run where nature pleases, but railroads run where man plans". Over the years, there has been some interest in the river traffic on the lists and the Captains/Masters. Thought these may give an incite to the commerce of the day.The following are some announcements made on that cold February 20th, 1876: LOWER MISSISSIPPI Carroll Line Passenger Steamer "John A. Scudder" leaving for N.O Sunday, the 20th (for the Mardi Gras) A.J. Carter - Master (Captain), C.H. Dix - Clerk Merchant's Southern Packet Co.. Steamer "James Howard" - Memphis & N.O. - B.R. Pegram, Captain, J.H. Chassaing, Clerk.Foot of Walnut St. Carroll Line Steamer "Glencoe" Freight & Passage, John T. McCord, Master. Foot of Market & Chestnut Mississippi Valley Transportation Co. Steamer "Future City" and barges. For freight contracts apply at wharfboat at foot of Elm St. (no longer exists) Offers greatly reduced rates to Texas, Alabama & Georgia. George H. Rea, Pres., W.F. Haines, Freight Agent, H.C. Haarstick, V.P. Memphis & St. Louis Packet Co. Steamer "Emma C. Elliot" For St. Mary's, Ste, Genevieve, Chester, & Grand Tower (Memphis?) I. Lightner, Master, W.B. Russel, Gen'l Freight Agent Memphis " " " U.S. Mail Line For Cairo, Columbus & Memphis (?) Ziegler, Master, To Anchor Line (connects with ?) (There were two Mail ships, one the 23rd & the other 28th) UPPER MISSISSIPPI Under "The Rivers," it reported that, "the upper Mississippi is falling fast". Assume this was a major problem before the lock system. Keokuk Northern Line Packet Co. Steamer "Bayard For Hannibal, Quincy, Keokuk & Burlington - (?) Kinnear, Master, wharf at Vine & Locust MISSOURI RIVER Missouri River Packet Co. - Star Line Steamer Belle St. Louis" Cartwright, Master For Jefferson City, Rocheport, Boonville, Arrow Rock, Glasgow, Cambridge & Frankfort - Regular weekly trip Missouri " " " Steamer "Fannie Lewis" Keith, Master - same destinations as above ILLINOIS RIVER General Agent R.F. Sass - Steamer "Mary Boyd" to Peoria connecting to Toledo, Peoria & Warsaw Railroad delivering freight at Illinois Central depot at the foot of Lake St. (Chicago, I assume. I would imagine that agent Sass' route to Chicago wouldn't have lasted too many more years after the proper connections were made through Eads & East St. Louis) St. Louis & Illinois Packet Co. Steamer "Lady Lee" Samuel Rider, Master, (numerous stops - it stopped at Rock Island to offload freight to the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific R.R. and continued to Chicago) First class fare to Chicago $7. Apply at company's wharfboat at foot of Spruce St. Regular Napes Packet Light Draught Steamer "Fannie Keener" - Abrams, Master Grafton, Hardin, Montezuma, Florence, Griggsville, Perry, Naples & all way landings (?) Gary Stoltman Mercerville, NJ