I would like to add just one tidbit to this discussion regarding the african american and the civil war. All of my ancestors fought for the union, yet I have lived in the south for 30 years, and have a great affection for this area. I greatly object to my friends and family who do not live in the south referring to the racism of the south. I live in a small community where both races are living near one another, and amiably. My friends and family do not live near or have occasion to associate with the black community. Still contending that economically there has to be a better future for the black community, and that is through education. My family [white] are extremely involved in trying to improve the situation with the impoverished and those blacks who do not have opportunities. Having said that, in regards to the Civil War, I have long noted that the photographs of the union army leadership often have a black man or boy nearby to do their 'errands'...so to laud the north as the beneficent group regarding the black community 100 years ago, or even today, would indeed be a false interpretation of reality. thank you for listening. joanne > From: "Bill Morgan" <wmorgan1@kc.rr.com> > Date: 2005/11/02 Wed PM 01:46:22 EST > To: MO-CW-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Slavery and Mr. Lincoln's despotism > > With such a complete grasp of history, surely you know that slavery existed > in the North well after the Confederacy was forced to capitulate. Mr. > Lincoln's famed "Emancipation Proclamation" specifically limited freeing of > slaves to those states "in rebellion" against the United States. As the > Confederate states had already declared their independence he was merely > making another affront to the sovereignty of a people who had voted for > independence from federal despotism. Mr. Lincoln also suspended the right of > habeas corpus until overruled by the Supreme Court. > > His famed proclamation specifically excluded the states of Maryland, > Tennessee and Delaware and slavery was not officially ended in Kentucky, > Missouri and Delaware until ratification of the 13th Amendment in December, > 1865. Delaware was, in fact, the last state to end slavery. > > Certainly you are also aware that much of the slave traffic came from the > North, with a booming slave market in Baltimore, for example. Many Yankee > brokers bought human chattel in the West Indies and brought them into > northern ports for sale. > > The most unique thing about Missouri and Kansas was that the so-called > "civil war" started here about five years before the assault on Fort Sumter. > Federally instigated bandits and fanatics such as Jim Lane, Jim Montgomery > and John Brown organized gangs of armed ruffians to launch raids in > Missouri, ostensibly to combat slavery. The "Jayhawkers" and "border > ruffians," however, were seldom interested in whether or not a targeted > family owned slaves. If they had livestock or other valuables they were fair > game no matter how they stood on the issue of slavery. > > The War of Northern Aggression, like most wars throughout history, was over > money and wealth. The Yankees wanted cheap cotton for their textile mills > and they wanted to recover what they paid for that cotton by taxing southern > cotton producers unmercifully. The powerful business interests of the > Northeast controlled the national government in the city of Washington and > used it to hold the South in firm control and near-poverty. Those same > businessmen abused their own workers and held them in what amounted to > economic slavery. They had no interest in eliminating slavery, just a > burning desire to insure that they reaped as much as possible of the profits > of that "unholy institution." > > Chattel slavery was deplorable but it continues today in many parts of the > world. > > This country was built first upon the backs of indentured servants (economic > slaves) from Europe and then on the labors of chattel slaves, first from the > people indigenous to the West Indies and subsequently the Africans. "Human > bondage" built the great industrial strength of the northeast United States > just as surely as it did the plantation life of the South. > > Bill, in KC > =-=-=-=-= > > > If by resources you mean the ability to traffic in human bondage-then you > > are correct-and actually you are incorrect regarding Missouri's > > uniqueness-the only state not to raise White Union troops was South > > Carolina-where neo-confederates still fight the usage of the term civil > > war-Slavery allowed a lazy white slave owning population to play upon the > > racial fears of the middle to lower classes-who had nothing to gain with > > slavery-slavery of course kept wages down for the middle and poor > > whites-while allowing the wealthy slave owners to live a life of fancy > > laziness. Also let us keep in mind the CSA instituted our first > > draft-however, exempting Slave owners who owned 20 slaves or more (I think > > this # is accurate)-Rich man's war-poor man's fight. > > > > Of course the issue of State's Rights was not important to Southerners who > > clamored for, and had passed, the Fugitive Slave Law which allowed > > widespread violations of non Slave States Rights-State's Rights folks tend > > to forget this little issue-I will not even go into the violent resistance > > to and repression of free speech and free press for anti-slavery AMERICANS > > in the south-suffice to say that the Slave Owning elite were able to > > trample on the rights of the working class, the anti-slavery, and Black > > Americans. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SEASNAPPIER@aol.com [mailto:SEASNAPPIER@aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:54 AM > > To: MO-CW-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Re: MO-CW-D Digest V05 #134 > > > > > > Remembering that the North benefited the most from it all. They had the > > textile factories. It appears the North was trying to control the South > > and it's > > resources. I believe much of the history to be correct in regards to most > > the > > south, but when it came to MIssouri, it was an entirely different issue. > > State's Rights...is always what is at issue and as typical, it appears to > > be a > > repeating trend. Slavery of any kind is wrong and was wrong so please > > don't > > misunderstand me. I am not trying to justify slavery. I am trying to > > introduce > > the real reasons for the SO CALLED CIVIL WAR, from one Missourian's point > > of > > view. My family lost all it had from Order #11 and the Burn Orders. They > > were > > just simple God Believing and Hard Working Folks as many were. > > Check Scholl/Ross/Boone/Muir/Hinde/Key/Wallace/Parr/James/Younger, > > ect...... > > > > > > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > > political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal > > messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be > > grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen > > Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > > > > ============================== > > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list, send ONLY the word UNSUBSCRIBE to the > > utility address MO-CW-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM If you are trying to > > unsubscribe from the Digest list, use the same utility address but change > > the -L- to a -D- > > > > ============================== > > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > > New content added every business day. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Thank you for adding a note of reality to what has been otherwise a waste of time involving chatter by folks who seem not to know what they are talking about. In a word, y'all, shut up and listen. ----- Original Message ----- From: <joannecole@charter.net> To: <MO-CW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Re: Re: [MO-CW] Slavery and Mr. Lincoln's despotism >I would like to add just one tidbit to this discussion regarding the >african american and the civil war. All of my ancestors fought for the >union, yet I have lived in the south for 30 years, and have a great >affection for this area. > I greatly object to my friends and family who do not live in the south > referring to the racism of the south. I live in a small community where > both races are living near one another, and amiably. My friends and family > do not live near or have occasion to associate with the black community. > > Still contending that economically there has to be a better future for the > black community, and that is through education. My family [white] are > extremely involved in trying to improve the situation with the > impoverished and those blacks who do not have opportunities. > Having said that, in regards to the Civil War, I have long noted that the > photographs of the union army leadership often have a black man or boy > nearby to do their 'errands'...so to laud the north as the beneficent > group regarding the black community 100 years ago, or even today, would > indeed be a false interpretation of reality. > thank you for listening. > joanne > > >> From: "Bill Morgan" <wmorgan1@kc.rr.com> >> Date: 2005/11/02 Wed PM 01:46:22 EST >> To: MO-CW-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Slavery and Mr. Lincoln's despotism >> >> With such a complete grasp of history, surely you know that slavery >> existed >> in the North well after the Confederacy was forced to capitulate. Mr. >> Lincoln's famed "Emancipation Proclamation" specifically limited freeing >> of >> slaves to those states "in rebellion" against the United States. As the >> Confederate states had already declared their independence he was merely >> making another affront to the sovereignty of a people who had voted for >> independence from federal despotism. Mr. Lincoln also suspended the right >> of >> habeas corpus until overruled by the Supreme Court. >> >> His famed proclamation specifically excluded the states of Maryland, >> Tennessee and Delaware and slavery was not officially ended in Kentucky, >> Missouri and Delaware until ratification of the 13th Amendment in >> December, >> 1865. Delaware was, in fact, the last state to end slavery. >> >> Certainly you are also aware that much of the slave traffic came from the >> North, with a booming slave market in Baltimore, for example. Many Yankee >> brokers bought human chattel in the West Indies and brought them into >> northern ports for sale. >> >> The most unique thing about Missouri and Kansas was that the so-called >> "civil war" started here about five years before the assault on Fort >> Sumter. >> Federally instigated bandits and fanatics such as Jim Lane, Jim >> Montgomery >> and John Brown organized gangs of armed ruffians to launch raids in >> Missouri, ostensibly to combat slavery. The "Jayhawkers" and "border >> ruffians," however, were seldom interested in whether or not a targeted >> family owned slaves. If they had livestock or other valuables they were >> fair >> game no matter how they stood on the issue of slavery. >> >> The War of Northern Aggression, like most wars throughout history, was >> over >> money and wealth. The Yankees wanted cheap cotton for their textile mills >> and they wanted to recover what they paid for that cotton by taxing >> southern >> cotton producers unmercifully. The powerful business interests of the >> Northeast controlled the national government in the city of Washington >> and >> used it to hold the South in firm control and near-poverty. Those same >> businessmen abused their own workers and held them in what amounted to >> economic slavery. They had no interest in eliminating slavery, just a >> burning desire to insure that they reaped as much as possible of the >> profits >> of that "unholy institution." >> >> Chattel slavery was deplorable but it continues today in many parts of >> the >> world. >> >> This country was built first upon the backs of indentured servants >> (economic >> slaves) from Europe and then on the labors of chattel slaves, first from >> the >> people indigenous to the West Indies and subsequently the Africans. >> "Human >> bondage" built the great industrial strength of the northeast United >> States >> just as surely as it did the plantation life of the South. >> >> Bill, in KC >> =-=-=-=-= >> >> > If by resources you mean the ability to traffic in human bondage-then >> > you >> > are correct-and actually you are incorrect regarding Missouri's >> > uniqueness-the only state not to raise White Union troops was South >> > Carolina-where neo-confederates still fight the usage of the term civil >> > war-Slavery allowed a lazy white slave owning population to play upon >> > the >> > racial fears of the middle to lower classes-who had nothing to gain >> > with >> > slavery-slavery of course kept wages down for the middle and poor >> > whites-while allowing the wealthy slave owners to live a life of fancy >> > laziness. Also let us keep in mind the CSA instituted our first >> > draft-however, exempting Slave owners who owned 20 slaves or more (I >> > think >> > this # is accurate)-Rich man's war-poor man's fight. >> > >> > Of course the issue of State's Rights was not important to Southerners >> > who >> > clamored for, and had passed, the Fugitive Slave Law which allowed >> > widespread violations of non Slave States Rights-State's Rights folks >> > tend >> > to forget this little issue-I will not even go into the violent >> > resistance >> > to and repression of free speech and free press for anti-slavery >> > AMERICANS >> > in the south-suffice to say that the Slave Owning elite were able to >> > trample on the rights of the working class, the anti-slavery, and Black >> > Americans. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: SEASNAPPIER@aol.com [mailto:SEASNAPPIER@aol.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:54 AM >> > To: MO-CW-L@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Re: MO-CW-D Digest V05 #134 >> > >> > >> > Remembering that the North benefited the most from it all. They had the >> > textile factories. It appears the North was trying to control the South >> > and it's >> > resources. I believe much of the history to be correct in regards to >> > most >> > the >> > south, but when it came to MIssouri, it was an entirely different >> > issue. >> > State's Rights...is always what is at issue and as typical, it appears >> > to >> > be a >> > repeating trend. Slavery of any kind is wrong and was wrong so please >> > don't >> > misunderstand me. I am not trying to justify slavery. I am trying to >> > introduce >> > the real reasons for the SO CALLED CIVIL WAR, from one Missourian's >> > point >> > of >> > view. My family lost all it had from Order #11 and the Burn Orders. >> > They >> > were >> > just simple God Believing and Hard Working Folks as many were. >> > Check Scholl/Ross/Boone/Muir/Hinde/Key/Wallace/Parr/James/Younger, >> > ect...... >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== >> > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, >> > political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal >> > messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will >> > be >> > grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen >> > Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net >> > >> > ============================== >> > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send ONLY the word UNSUBSCRIBE to the >> > utility address MO-CW-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM If you are trying to >> > unsubscribe from the Digest list, use the same utility address but >> > change >> > the -L- to a -D- >> > >> > ============================== >> > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >> > New content added every business day. Learn more: >> > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >> > >> >> >> ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== >> NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, >> political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal >> messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be >> grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen >> Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal > messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be > grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen > Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm > >

Joanne, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Though born and raised in Kansas, I lived for three years in Washington, D.C. and for eleven in South Carolina and Arkansas. Black Americans were treated no better in our national capital than in two of the original Confederate states. Education is the obvious key to economic advancement for anyone born to poverty or limited means. The problem is that public education as constituted in this country is a failed experiment that needs to be euthanized. It is just human nature to place a low value on things perceived to be "free." Many people who should know better look upon public schools as little more than "free" daycare and take no active role in insuring that their children actually get an education. Thanks to general apathy we have allowed our public schools to be completely taken over by liberals who teach "political correctness" and revisionist history rather than focusing on the basics. For decades now our public schools have cranked out generations of graduates who can't read their own diplomas. In Japan and Viet Nam I visited public schools and taught English conversation classes to youngsters who had to pass competitive examinations to advance to subsequent grades. By the second or third year of high school those Asian children had studied algebra, physics, chemistry, biology, calculus, English, French, their own languages and a great deal of world history. They had to show a high level of knowledge of each discipline just to remain in school. Meanwhile, in my local school district teachers are not allowed to assign failing grades to any students who show up for at least half of their classes. The meaningless C is the minimum standard grade even for pupils/students who can't spell Mississippi or balance a checkbook. My youngest daughter and her elementary school classmates in the '70s had a teacher whose spelling they corrected whenever she wrote on the chalkboard. School systems with no performance standards for children can't really be expected to have minimum standards for teachers. I consider education of our young a much too important task to be left to politicians and bureaucrats as we do today. I don't have simple answers but there must be some way to impose tuition fees on parents as a means to encourage them to get involved and strive to get their money's worth. Throughout much of American history schools were cooperative efforts of entire communities and education was greatly prized. Now they are government indoctrination centers and little effort is made to prepare young people to excel in life. Excellence is instead reserved for the wealthy who can afford the private schools to prepare their children for the Ivy League and eventual control of our national government. Since several southern states had laws prohibiting teaching Negroes to read and write, I can hardly argue that the Confederacy would have done a better job with education than the union. I CAN say that slavery and racism were deplorable facts of life throughout the United States before the War of Northern Aggression and were certainly not in the sole province of the South. Bill, in KC =-=-=-=-=-= Subject: Re: Re: [MO-CW] Slavery and Mr. Lincoln's despotism >I would like to add just one tidbit to this discussion regarding the >african american and the civil war. All of my ancestors fought for the >union, yet I have lived in the south for 30 years, and have a great >affection for this area. > I greatly object to my friends and family who do not live in the south > referring to the racism of the south. I live in a small community where > both races are living near one another, and amiably. My friends and family > do not live near or have occasion to associate with the black community. > > Still contending that economically there has to be a better future for the > black community, and that is through education. My family [white] are > extremely involved in trying to improve the situation with the > impoverished and those blacks who do not have opportunities. > Having said that, in regards to the Civil War, I have long noted that the > photographs of the union army leadership often have a black man or boy > nearby to do their 'errands'...so to laud the north as the beneficent > group regarding the black community 100 years ago, or even today, would > indeed be a false interpretation of reality. > thank you for listening. > joanne