Mr Gephardt needs to realize that those flags were bought and paid for with the blood of brave Southern men, and they were not his to take down. I do understand Gephardts motives in this latest attack on Confederate heritage. Gephardt's motives are fueled by blind political ambition. Creating a controversy by attacking one culture to gain the political support of another is a good way to get your name into the public eye. Unfortunately for Gephardt this new found publicity is negative and insulting to the descendants of Confederate veterans. Gephardt needs to remember that these descendants also have a vote. Dave Simpson Missouri Division Son's of Confederate Veterans

who the hell is gephardt to ORDER THE REMOVAL OF ANYTHING FROM ANYWHERE.? i dont rember him being elected king of missouri. Remember he is a presidential hopeful. and jockeying for the position. his lack of eyebrows can be explained by years of butt cheeks on his forehead.

Thought this was a relevant news article for the list. Confederate Flags Pulled At Historic Sites in Mo. Associated Press Wednesday, January 15, 2003; Page A03 JEFFERSON CITY, Mo., Jan. 14 -- State officials took down Confederate flags at two historic sites today after Democratic presidential hopeful Richard A. Gephardt said they shouldn't be flown anywhere. Confederate battle flags were removed at the Confederate Memorial Historic Site and the Fort Davidson Historic Site, said Sue Holst, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources. The flags will still be displayed inside the sites' visitor centers. Over the weekend, Gephardt said: "My own personal feeling is that the Confederate flag no longer has a place flying any time, anywhere in our great nation." Mary Still, spokeswoman for Gov. Bob Holden (D), said she called Natural Resources Director Steve Mahfood after reading a news report about Gephardt's statement. "I told Steve it seemed to me it wouldn't be appropriate to have it flying on a flagpole, but that I didn't know all of their considerations, and I left it in his lap," Still said. The Missouri leader of a Confederate heritage organization said politicians were trying to erase state history. "They take our tax money and then they turn around and try to destroy our heritage," said Gene Dressel, state commander of Sons of Confederate Veterans. In Atlanta, about 300 people marched to the Capitol, demanding a statewide vote on bringing back the Georgia flag with its big Confederate emblem. The current flag, featuring a tiny image of the Confederate emblem, was adopted in 2001 at the behest of Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes. Barnes's successor, Republican Sonny Perdue, criticized Barnes for changing the flag without public input. Today, he said he supports a nonbinding public referendum. Gephardt waded into the flag controversy last weekend. He said the flag flying at the Confederate Soldier Monument near South Carolina's Statehouse "is a hurtful, divisive symbol and in my view has no place flying anywhere, in any state in this country." © 2003 The Washington Post Company

I am appalled at this, to say the least. How dare Gebhart or anyone else have the audacity to try to change our heritage. Like telling the Indians they can't celebrate their heritage, the celebrations all over this country that acknowledge their ancestors and traditions. I agree that it should be a forever reminder that this part of history happened and that all peoples should learn/be taught the cause and affects of such. By taking the flag down will NOT erase what happened. It will not bring back any of our forefathers that fought and died during that war. I am SO fed up by the sensitivity of Americans as a nation. People need to get a real hobby and learn to live with history. It happened, it CAN NOT be erased. Laura Belmar ----- Original Message ----- From: Desoto Joe/The Record Man To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:01 AM Subject: [MO-CW] Confederate flags ordered pulled down at two Missouri historic sites Confederate flags ordered pulled down at two Missouri historic sites By SCOTT CHARTON Associated Press Writer The state of Missouri on Tuesday pulled down Confederate flags at two state historic sites after Democratic presidential hopeful Dick Gephardt said they shouldn't be flown anywhere. Confederate battle flags were removed at the Confederate Memorial Historic Site near Higginsville and the Fort Davidson Historic Site near Pilot Knob, said Sue Holst, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources. Holst said the flags were ordered pulled down by Steve Mahfood, director of the Department of Natural Resources. However, they still will be displayed inside visitors centers at the two sites. Mary Still, spokeswoman for Gov. Bob Holden, said she called Mahfood after reading an Associated Press story about Gephardt's weekend declaration, following a South Carolina visit, that the flag shouldn't be displayed "anytime, anywhere." Still said Holden, a Democrat who formerly was a Gephardt aide, didn't kno w about her conversation with Mahfood. "I told Steve it seemed to me it wouldn't be appropriate to have it flying on a flagpole, but that I didn't know all of their considerations and I left it in his lap," Still said. Mahfood didn't immediately return a call from the AP. But Holst, his spokeswoman, said the flag would still be displayed inside the visitors centers. The Missouri leader of a Confederate heritage organization that condemns racism criticized the removal of the flags, saying politicians were trying to erase a vital part of state history. "They take our tax money and then they turn around and try to destroy our heritage," said Gene Dressel, state commander of Sons of Confederate Veterans, which has criticized use of the flag by hate groups. Gephardt waded into South Carolina's controversy about the flag last weekend after visiting that state and initially sidestepping questions about its display there. Then, on Saturday, Gephardt issued a statement saying the flag shouldn't be displayed "anytime, anywhere." The AP noted in a story Monday that the flag had flown for decades without controversy - and without any criticism from Gephardt or other officials - at the Higginsville site, where remains of 694 Confederate veterans and 108 wives are buried. Gephardt's spokesman, Erik Smith, said Tuesday that the congressman's call for removing the flag included the Missouri sites, which Smith said Gephardt didn't know about because they aren't in the area he represents. Holst said Tuesday that no one had ever complained about the Missouri displays. "This was in response to the comments by Representative Gephardt, but it's a discussion the governor's office and the director felt was worthwhile," Holst said. Now, Holst said, "We will be displaying them inside in a way befitting the historical context. We have always viewed them as an artifact or a graphic that represents the telling of the story of the Civil War." The Confederate battle flag flew daily - below the U.S. and Missouri flags - over the 192-acre state site near Higginsville, about 40 miles east of Kansas City. The Higginsville site was the former location of a Confederate veterans home. A plaque at the park entrance says it is "dedicated to the valor of the Confederate soldiers." The Fort Davidson site in eastern Missouri commemorates the 1864 Battle of Pilot Knob. Dressel, of Jonesburg, is the state leader of the Confederate heritage group. He said the display at Higginsville was "historically appropriate, respectful and has never been controversial." "I'm appalled that someone living off my tax money would be willing to dishonor graves of soldiers by seeking to remove a flag that has been flying very appropriately for decades and which hasn't been the slightest bit controversial," Dressel said. In his Saturday statement, Gephardt said: "My own personal feeling is that the Confederate flag no longer has a place flying anytime, anywhere in our great nation." Gephardt added that the flag flying at the Confederate Soldier Monument near South Carolina's Statehouse "is a hurtful, divisive symbol and in my view has no place flying anywhere, in any state in this country." In South Carolina, the flag was removed from the Statehouse dome in July 2000 after a nationwide economic boycott led by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. In a compromise to remove the flag from the dome, it was put up at the Confederate monument that sits in front of the Statehouse. Desoto Joe/The Record Man ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== "If all do not join now to save the good old ship of the Union this voyage nobody will have a chance to pilot her on another voyage." Abraham Lincoln ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/02

I don't understand what the big deal is about flying a confederate flag. After all it is a part of the american history. My husband had many ancestors and great-grandparents that fought in the CW and even though they were Union, we both think the flag should be flown. Taking down the flag does not deter from the fact that the CW never happened or what it happened for. Those were very very long ago days and people should stop worrying. It is history. Let if fly!!! Julie Gerren in Idaho

One thing for sure is we must all educate ourselves. First, understand the Flag in question is not the Flag of the Confederacy, but a Battle Flag. That was this flag's sole purpose. It represents those fallen and those who served...making it more than that is what part of the problem is. We all have a responsibility to future generations, as our Forefather's had to us...Let's get it right...Either we are part of the problem or part of the answer. Too many false interpretations of this flag. To the victor's go the spoils..thus much truth has been misrepresented and totally forgotton. I agree we all need to respect the differences of our neighbor's.........Respect is the key word here. Claiborne Scholl Nappier....Great Grandnephew of one fallen in Battle.

Even black congressman Lacy Clay supported the Confederate monument at Higginsville. Here is what a Post Dispatch article interviewed him: State Sen. William Lacy Clay, D-St. Louis, who is black, said he was not offended by the Confederate flag's display, "so long as it's in that historical context." Clay is a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, which helps set the state parks budget. The park will receive about $150,000 in the current budget. "We as a people have to start respecting different cultures more. Those who honor the Confederate flag have a cultural separation from me - but we need to respect each other's views," Clay said. Taken from Post Dispatch article: MANY VISITORS SHARE RESPECT FOR HISTORY OF CONFEDERATE SITE March 16, 1997 by Scott Charton, Associated Press --Scott K. Williams

Land Of the Free? Amendment 1: Freedom of religion, speech, and the press; rights of assembly and petition Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Freedom of speech is the right to speak out publicly or privately. The term covers all forms of expression, including books, newspapers, magazines, radio, television, motion pictures, and electronic documents on computer networks. Many scholars consider freedom of speech a natural right.In a democracy, freedom of speech is a necessity. Democratic constitutions guarantee people the right to express their opinions freely because democracy is government of, by, and for the people. The people need information to help them determine the best political and social policies. Democratic governments need to know what most people believe and want. The governments also need to know the opinions of various minorities. Most nondemocratic nations deny freedom of speech to their people. The governments of these countries operate under the theory that the ruler or governing party "knows best" what is good for the people. Such governments believe that freedom of speech would interfere with the conduct of public affairs and would create disorder Excerpts from the World Book. Makes you think dosent it. I believe it is our right to express our selves. May it be a historical rememberence, Opinion, etc.. We have the right. Its really not about what side your ancestors were on in the civil war. Its about honoring history and with out it what map do we have? You cant blot out what some believe is an Insult and pretend it didnt happen. That just isnt reality. We need to remember, our decendents need to remember, for what ever personal reason some may have. A line has to be planted, else other rights may be at risk. Rebecca K.C.MO.

Since I started researching my family. I come upon realizing how important the history was too me. When I was growing up and learning history about states, I was interested but now I can't learn enough. Its very interesting. The children of today will miss that and Mr. Gerhard's needs to know this is why our children are not learning today because of his stupidest and others. I would gladly bring my grandchildren and let them see the history like Mo and tell the reason's of the flags of states are standing. We need to tell them the Why's and Why Not's, so they can understand things. Let the Flags stand where they Flying. The politicians get back to history and the reason Why they are causing the wars. Thanks. Kaye Morrison Abram from Idaho

Confederate flags ordered pulled down at two Missouri historic sites By SCOTT CHARTON Associated Press Writer The state of Missouri on Tuesday pulled down Confederate flags at two state historic sites after Democratic presidential hopeful Dick Gephardt said they shouldn't be flown anywhere. Confederate battle flags were removed at the Confederate Memorial Historic Site near Higginsville and the Fort Davidson Historic Site near Pilot Knob, said Sue Holst, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources. Holst said the flags were ordered pulled down by Steve Mahfood, director of the Department of Natural Resources. However, they still will be displayed inside visitors centers at the two sites. Mary Still, spokeswoman for Gov. Bob Holden, said she called Mahfood after reading an Associated Press story about Gephardt's weekend declaration, following a South Carolina visit, that the flag shouldn't be displayed "anytime, anywhere." Still said Holden, a Democrat who formerly was a Gephardt aide, didn't know about her conversation with Mahfood. "I told Steve it seemed to me it wouldn't be appropriate to have it flying on a flagpole, but that I didn't know all of their considerations and I left it in his lap," Still said. Mahfood didn't immediately return a call from the AP. But Holst, his spokeswoman, said the flag would still be displayed inside the visitors centers. The Missouri leader of a Confederate heritage organization that condemns racism criticized the removal of the flags, saying politicians were trying to erase a vital part of state history. "They take our tax money and then they turn around and try to destroy our heritage," said Gene Dressel, state commander of Sons of Confederate Veterans, which has criticized use of the flag by hate groups. Gephardt waded into South Carolina's controversy about the flag last weekend after visiting that state and initially sidestepping questions about its display there. Then, on Saturday, Gephardt issued a statement saying the flag shouldn't be displayed "anytime, anywhere." The AP noted in a story Monday that the flag had flown for decades without controversy - and without any criticism from Gephardt or other officials - at the Higginsville site, where remains of 694 Confederate veterans and 108 wives are buried. Gephardt's spokesman, Erik Smith, said Tuesday that the congressman's call for removing the flag included the Missouri sites, which Smith said Gephardt didn't know about because they aren't in the area he represents. Holst said Tuesday that no one had ever complained about the Missouri displays. "This was in response to the comments by Representative Gephardt, but it's a discussion the governor's office and the director felt was worthwhile," Holst said. Now, Holst said, "We will be displaying them inside in a way befitting the historical context. We have always viewed them as an artifact or a graphic that represents the telling of the story of the Civil War." The Confederate battle flag flew daily - below the U.S. and Missouri flags - over the 192-acre state site near Higginsville, about 40 miles east of Kansas City. The Higginsville site was the former location of a Confederate veterans home. A plaque at the park entrance says it is "dedicated to the valor of the Confederate soldiers." The Fort Davidson site in eastern Missouri commemorates the 1864 Battle of Pilot Knob. Dressel, of Jonesburg, is the state leader of the Confederate heritage group. He said the display at Higginsville was "historically appropriate, respectful and has never been controversial." "I'm appalled that someone living off my tax money would be willing to dishonor graves of soldiers by seeking to remove a flag that has been flying very appropriately for decades and which hasn't been the slightest bit controversial," Dressel said. In his Saturday statement, Gephardt said: "My own personal feeling is that the Confederate flag no longer has a place flying anytime, anywhere in our great nation." Gephardt added that the flag flying at the Confederate Soldier Monument near South Carolina's Statehouse "is a hurtful, divisive symbol and in my view has no place flying anywhere, in any state in this country." In South Carolina, the flag was removed from the Statehouse dome in July 2000 after a nationwide economic boycott led by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. In a compromise to remove the flag from the dome, it was put up at the Confederate monument that sits in front of the Statehouse. Desoto Joe/The Record Man

De Soto Weekly facts De Soto, Jefferson, Missouri THURSDAY, 2 MARCH 1899 William H.H. COLLINS - William H.H. COLLINS, ex-sheriff of Johnson county, died at his residence in Warrensburg, of a complication of diseases. Mr. COLLINS was 58, and a native of Johnson county. He served through the civil war in the Second Missouri regiment of confederate infantry, commanded by Senator F.M. COCKRELL, and was twice wounded. He was elected sheriff in 1890 and 1892. He was prominent in the Masonic fraternity. Sent in by Charlotte M. Maness Desoto Joe/The Record Man

De Soto Weekly facts De Soto, Jefferson, Missouri THURSDAY, 9 FEBRUARY 1899 ANSWERED THE LAST ROLL CALL - Col. Hiram M. BLEDSOE, during the civil war commander of the famous First Missouri battery, died at his home near Pleasant Hill of pneumonia. He had been ill but a few days, but the disease made rapid progress, owing to his advanced years. Hi BLEDSOE, as he was familiarly known, was born in Bourbon county, Ky., 73 years ago. While yet a boy he removed to Missouri with his father, Rev. Hiram M. BLEDSOE, a Christian minister, and settled at Lexington. He served with distinction in the Mexican War, and also in the civil war, being a conspicuous officer in the Confederate army. LOCATED IN COSTA ROCO - John N. GODLEY, who was bartender at the saloon in which J.H. McMANIGAL, of Sedalia, killed Capt. T.C. YOUNG, of Lexington, during the confederate reunion at Springfield, has been located in Costa Rica. Sent in by Charlotte M. Maness Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Joe, Have you ever heard of prisoners of war or Southern Sympathizers being branded when captured? My husband's great-grandfather was captured, branded, and held in an out building. He managed to escape. I related this story to a friend of mine, and he said it got him to wondering. He purchased a small branding iron with the letter "p" and now wonders if this might be a human branding iron. Have you heard of such incidences? Rose Mary Lankford

Desoto Joe, Sounds like we had a similar problem. My computer had been down the last month but now with a new one I am also back online. I have just revamped the Missouri Civil War Museum website (I am no longer webmaster for the Missouri Division SCV--that was taken over by Brad Cornwell.) If you get a chance check it out, maybe buy a brick or two. I will be adding new material all the time, including a picture gallery of Missouri Civil War soldiers and leaders. What's nice about the museum, we promote both sides Union and Confederate. St. Louis County has been very generous granting us ground surrounding the building. We are getting a roadside adoptahighway sign for the museum. We will be planning some grand events, including bringing some nationally recognized speakers. Watch for us next month at select Wehrenburg theatres for "Gods and Generals" movie. We got permission to set up a table inside the theatre lobby to promote the museum. Desoto Joe, keep up the good work, I sure enjoy your postings. I am recommending your mailing list to all the museum staff. --Scott Williams www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org

I have been having trouble, updating to xp pro, but so far so good. I'm going through MANY e-mails & I'll try to get some stuff out tonight & the rest in the next few days. Hope everyone had a great holiday season! Desoto Joe/The Record Man

Is there a list available for area reenactments for 2003? We are interested in all events in Missouri and would like to know the correct dates for Pea Ridge, Arkansas. We know that it is around March 7-8 but need to know if it will be Friday and Saturday or Saturday and Sunday so we can make arrangements to go. Thabnks, Barb Lemley

Hello All, Located at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=752992069 is "I guess this is like a bond or certificate of payment. It was issued on August 6th 1874 to John Linnville of Capt Tates company. It is signed by govenor Woodson." Located at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=752753059 is "Complete Civil War Canteen ID'd to J.W. Carter 7th Missouri Volunteer's. The canteen has the covering and sling. The canteen is in excellant shape. The ID is stenciled on the strap but is light but can be read with close inspection." That's all for now.

Yes but please remember this doesn't hold true for ALL of them! see the following websites: http://www.snopes2.com/military/statue.htm G. Brooks Martin wrote: > Eureka, I Found It! > > > Randy, Please pass on to the "Govna". > > Re: Military Statues on Horseback. > > All four legs of the horse on the ground means the man died a natural > death. > > One forefoot raised, eventually died of wounds recieved in battle. > > Two legs raised, killed in battle. > > Source, Plymothlibrary.org > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > "You cannot make soldiers of slaves, or slaves of soldiers. The day > you make a soldier of them is the beginning of the end of the > Revolution. And if slaves seem good soldiers, then our whole theory of > slavery is wrong." > Senator Howell Cobb > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Eureka, I Found It! Randy, Please pass on to the "Govna". Re: Military Statues on Horseback. All four legs of the horse on the ground means the man died a natural death. One forefoot raised, eventually died of wounds recieved in battle. Two legs raised, killed in battle. Source, Plymothlibrary.org _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Hello All, Located at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=751469215 is, "A Letter from James Sherry to his Sister on 2/6/1862 or 1863 concerning rebels, raids, fights near Fort Henry while in Florence, Missouri." No unit identified in the letter. Located at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=752428157 is a nice CDV of Captain George A. Holloway of the 33rd Missouri Infantry. That's all for now. K.