In a message dated 02/25/2003 11:39:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > My political affiliations have nothing to do with the way I run the list. I > do not consider myself associated with any political party. I do not vote > straight ticket on anything, but support the candidates & issues that I > > I think you are a great list administrator. On more than one occasion I > have noticed how even-handed and reasonable you are to all of us in spite > of our diverse opinions and sometimes conflicting interests. You should > be pleased to know that this element of your personality is obvious to the > members of this list. > > You are much appreciated, > Pat Riley

I haven't seen the movie yet, but last night on the History Channel they had a program, Hollywood vs. History. It was about the Gods and Generals movie. Just made me want to see it all the more!!!! Several SCV members were at Jonesboro, Arkansas (were it was shown recently) as a color guard. I think this puts a nice touch on the movie. Rose Mary Lankford

Joe, You did a very fine job with your message. I believe it was Will Rogers who said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time." I think you did a splendid job as moderator, keep up the good work. Also, there is a saying, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Remember, it only takes a second to hit the delete button. Rose Mary Lankford

Thanks Joe for your time and interest in serving and helping us with Missouri and Civil War history. I appreciate you and all the helpful people here. Don 'Tis a privilege to live in the Ozarks! _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!

> <<Anyone see Gods & Generals yet?>> > yes, on its first night. My parents saw it the same day and went over the top, comparing it to Gone With The Wind (that's a little like comparing apples and oranges). It IS wonderful, and the best thing I've ever seen related to the War. As a nitpicker, I found one or two historical things I can quibble about...but all in all I was mesmerized. This is a monumental achievement on a number of levels. Stephen Lang is so good as Stonewall Jackson that it is hard to use sufficient superlative terms. You will come away from this feeling you have had a peek into the mid nineteenth century and actually eavesdropped on the lives of some of these remarkable people. Some will find the movie too long, too much attention to battle detail (some will carp about leaving some things out)..but make no mistake about it, this is a remarkable piece of moviemaking. It makes Gettysburg pale in comparison. Duvall is quite goood as Lee, Daniels is very good as Chmaberlain, Mia SAorvino is wonderful as Fanny Chamberlain, and I am forgetting who played Jackson's wife but she is utterly magnificent. I saw this in packed theater in the Inland Valley of southern California. There were at least twenty persons who attended in uniform or period dress, most of them CS. Hawkins Scouting the Left Coast

I have been off list for awhile, personal situations & phone lines were out for a few days due to the weather. Tonight when I get in from work, I'll try to answer some questions. I would like to answer one members request & share it with all. To ?: (name withheld out of courtesy, even when I'm accused of not having any) This list covers all topics related to the Civil War in Missouri, from the actual time period, or topics that are currently being raised in the press. Everyone on the list has the right to express their opinions on any topic that is relevant. Sometimes as administrator, you have to allow a few offtopic posts, because sometimes, people just need to share things with others whom they assume, might be interested. I'm probably the biggest person guilty of that infraction. I sometimes post articles that deal with other states, but are interesting because they deal with the Civil War. I have tried to send most of these articles to my friend David, who graciously maintains a website that posts all of my postings concerning the Civil War. I sometimes cannot answer every request, especially complaints, but I do receive them from time to time, & try diligently to address the concerns of all members. In fact, I feel that everyone here, tries to maintain the highest standards of proper net etiquette. I have many irons in the fire & maintaining the list & webpage, while fulfilling my other obligations, is very demanding. I usually get little sleep, but I enjoy trying to help others in their search for the truth concerning the conflict. There are people who come & go from our list. They find help & leave, but sometimes return. My mailbox is jammed with requests & bounced messages, misdirected posts, etc. Often, we receive requests that have nothing to do with the War, but I do not chastise these posters, I try to help them offlist instead. My political affiliations have nothing to do with the way I run the list. I do not consider myself associated with any political party. I do not vote straight ticket on anything, but support the candidates & issues that I feel will best support my conscience. From the day you are born, until the day you die, everyone's life is evolved around politics. This is unfortunate, but a fact of life. I am aware of your dislike to the recent political postings, but again, I see no harm in allowing them as long as they relate to our state & the Civil War. Your last complaint was rude in it's content & was not replied to until now, because Sunday, I was shoveling snow all night at the Hospital with a crew of only three. Last night I came in & crashed on my couch, grabbed a few hours sleep & woke to get my daughter ready & on the bus for school. I'm typing this response & perhaps I can grab a little shut eye before I plod off to work. My point is this: Don't be so thick skinned, life is too short. Contribute to the list what you can, read what you like, delete offending posts, or comment on them. Try not to post anything that is hurtful by directing it at individuals. We all will never agree on everything, but that's ok. If this reply is not to your liking, then I suggest you unsubscribe & find a list that will fulfill your particular needs, or start your own. Yes the War is over, but the political ramifications have followed this state ever since. Of course, if the majority of the members on the list feel that I am in error in these statements, please feel free to inform me of my transgressions. Anyone see Gods & Generals yet? Desoto Joe/The Record Man

[email protected] Rant over. Come back

Hello Everyone, As I was transcribing the 1860 Census for the Lone Jack, Missouri area, I noticed that there were two free black families listed on the census. I am trying to track down descendants and/or information on these families. Or where I could go to find information. Thomas Hale - 60 - Stone Mason - Unknown Jane Hale - 45 - Housekeeper - Virginia Martha William - 33 - Housekeeper - Kentucky Thomas Green - 5 - Missouri Jane Williams - 3 - Missouri Joshua Williams - 1 - Missouri As President of the Friends of Historic Lone Jack, we are very much interested in possibly doing an exhibit on this family and their struggles during the War, for the Civil War Museum here in Lone Jack. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Alinda Miller Lone Jack, Missouri

>From: [email protected] >Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:35:44 EST >Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Fwd: MO-CW-D Digest V03 #47 >To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] > > I don't know how far back or what parameters are acceptable, but amoung > other great tomes on the subject at hand are an old set of books entitled > Messages and Letters of the Presidents, in many volumes, from 1799 to > 1869. Those are "the horses mouth" from the men who created that > particular history. I don't for the life of me understand what you are > so upset about. We all can't have access to those particular historical > volumes necessary for the education of an archaeologist, so we must do > with what we have. I remain in deep sorrow for my inadequate and > bumbling education. mea maxima culpa.......RFS > >with all due respect i must disagree with that. most books, not all, are >not the truth about our history. i am an archaeologist and i have studied >history indepth. you have to take into consideration the source and >consider many sources before coming to any one conclusion. every writer >has their own opinion but that is their own opinion based on their own >life experiences and knowledge. check the book for references and always >take those references into consideration. i am native american and most of >what has been printed about u.s./indian wars is absolutely false. i am not >necessarily speaking of just wars...i am speaking of all of u.s history >written down in books. i am slightly off topic but this also applies to >the civil war. > >winnie <---will unsubscribe before i get beat up ;-) > >In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:19:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, >[email protected] writes: > >> >I am 70 yrs old and have saved my high school world history and American >> >History books and many others of the same and much older times. I suggest >> >you all do the same so your grandchildren can read the REAL history before >> >they are forced to read revisionist propaganda. Preserve these old >> >books! RFS > > > >wintu <---dancing to the beat of a different drum ><http://www.angelfire.com/home/cherokeecousins/index.html>cherokeecousinsvillage >

For those of you that will miss meeting Museum representatives, reenactors and officials of the SCV and SUVCW at opening weekend of Gods and Generals at select St. Louis area theaters. My last presentation will be at the 2 pm Sunday showing at St. Charles 18 Wehrenberg Theatre on HWY 94 (First Capital Drive): Here is a copy of my speech in front of the big screen, in case you don't get to attend: Flanked by reenactor color bearers I approach the audience with: Greetings from the Missouri Civil War Museum! My name is Scott Williams, I am the webmaster for the organization. Like many of you I have many ancestors and kin that fought on the side for the Confederacy and for the Union. Unfortunately my oratory skills are not that of Gen. Robert E. Lee so our executive director has prepared some words for me: Dear Friends: On behalf of The Missouri Civil War Museum non-profit organization, The Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, The Sons of Confederate Veterans, The 11th Mississippi Re-enactors, The 6th Wisconsin Re-enactors, and Wehrenberg Theatres, I welcome you to the opening weekend of the long awaited motion picture of "Gods and Generals." You have just viewed the first half of this remarkable film that was produced to give you a brief and realistic glimpse of America's greatest tragedy. This brief look back at The American Civil War doesn't place good versus evil, or friend versus foe. It places Americans versus Americans, and shows the pain, suffering, and sacrifices they all endured in the name of their families, their States, their Country, and for many their God. These historical figures are not at all our enemies, they are not even strangers to us, to most of us they are in fact our forefathers. We in the 21st Century have a hard time imagining what these brave men had to endure through the four deadliest years of American History. By the time it would conclude, over 630,000 of them would perish. Many ask, what could have made these Americans take up arms against each other and in many instances against their own friends and family. What possibly could have divided our country to the extent that these men would sacrifice their own lives and jeopardize the existence of our young nation. The events surrounding the American Civil War can never be explained in a simple motion picture, or a few textbooks. To properly understand it, one must seek out other resources such as museum exhibits, interpretive displays, archival materials, and of course visit the actual historical sites that were involved. Here in the St. Louis area, one may find one or two of the above, however, there is no facility that currently exists in the St. Louis area that combines all four elements in one single place. Nor is there a facility that is entirely dedicated and devoted only to the study of Missouri and the Civil War. Many who live in St. Louis don't even realize the important part our area played in the war. Many of us were never taught that Missouri had the 3rd most battles and engagements than any other state. Many don't realize that only one other state lost more men per capita in the war than Missouri. Furthermore, St. Louis provided more troops to the Confederacy and to the Union than any other city, west of the Mississippi, and more than most cities, east of the Mississippi. Among other things, the first general died here, the second major battle of the war was fought here, and at Jefferson Barracks and at Benton Barracks, tens of thousands of troops trained and prepared for war here. 16,000 of them both Blue & Gray now lay at rest at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. The St. Louis area is indeed very rich in Civil War history, however it has been for the most part obscured, forgotten, and hidden from our view. I am proud to announce to you today, that The Missouri Civil War Museum is going to change that fact by establishing its permanent home at Historic Jefferson Barracks that is located in south St. Louis County. As we sit here today, dozens of committed volunteers are participating in a promotional blitz spanning four nearby counties in an attempt to draw more support and awareness to our project. Our nationwide fundraising campaign is now underway and as an area resident do your part by helping it become a reality. Please take the time to read our Museum brochure, visit our website, and please think seriously about contributing to a facility that will be built from a grassroots campaign in our own hometown. At this time, we do not receive any government funding like others do, our primary source of funding at this time must come from people like you who care. This special place will be dedicated in the honor of all of our Civil War ancestors that came before us, but then again it will also be created for our children who will finally have an opportunity to learn about the important part their ancestors played here in Missouri. Thank you very much for your attention and please help this worthy cause if you can. Response from the theatre audience: overwhelming applause:-) participating theatres and remaining Sunday Feb 23 shows: Arnold: Sunday 11 and 4 PM Ronnies 6: 2PM Kenrick: 2PM Des Peres: 2PM Mid Rivers 2PM O'Fallon: 2PM St. Charles 18: 2 PM Please stop by and say hello Scott K. Williams, The Missouri Civil War Museum http://www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org/

>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 05:09:11 -0700 >Subject: MO-CW-D Digest V03 #47 > > >I am 70 yrs old and have saved my high school world history and American >History books and many others of the same and much older times. I suggest >you all do the same so your grandchildren can read the REAL history before >they are forced to read revisionist propaganda. Preserve these old >books! RFS >______________________________X-Message: #1 >Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:40:01 -0600 >From: "Fred Bultman" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Missouri - THE TRUTH > >Behind The Smoke Screen - THE TRUTH > >(True documented historical facts are extremely important in genealogical >research!) > >I've received many e-mails just like everyone else has in this group over >the past several months on the Civil War matters from the outrage of the >removal of southern Civil War era flags, to which side was on the >appropriate side to maybe even that the South still has a chance to win the >war; dream on, what's done is done, the South lost. > >Even though the reasons for the war, total elimination of slavery, flag >symbolism and unity under one country/flag and the Northern win, were and >are extremely-extremely important, there is an underlying and prevalent >issue that everyone is overlooking - THE TRUTH. > >We as a nation of people are about to re-write history (Civil War history) >in order to satisfy a group of people, which doesn't matter whether the >group is right or wrong or is a minority or majority of the population. >HISTORY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, history can't be changed because a group of >individuals today didn't like what happened several hundred years ago or any >time period in the past. > >We as a country need to be extremely careful regarding what we are about to >do in altering what actually happened in the past. If we do make changes in >our history books, which we are on the verge of doing so, are we as a >people, a nation, THE USA, any better than any of the other Dictatorships or >Socialistic societies, past or present, who have changed their countries >history just to satisfy the desires of the ruling few, at the detriment of >their entire society, their history, their genealogy. > >It appears through all what is happening that the people who are making the >most noise, want things to change, whatever those changes are, but one thing >for sure is to change written history, these same people are pointing >fingers and accusing people of today and from a several hundred years ago >for what happened back then. > >One of the fundamental rights of a USA citizen is reflective in the judicial >system of our government is that in a criminal case the defendant has a >right to face his or her accuser. Well, from my perspective neither the >defendant nor his or accuser is available or alive, so there should not be a >trial. We should leave those things as they were and work on making today's >issues right and changing today's wrongs. We have the power and hopefully >the strength to do so; let's focus on today's issues and fight for the >rights of individuals in them. > >How much better to read a book from the Civil War era, written by someone of >that day whether from the north or the south, rather than by someone of >today who doesn't have ALL the facts because they were not there. Most >people in this group are involved in genealogy and accurate history and >preservation of the actual facts are extremely important, let's not lose >sight of that. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRUTH. > >Let us focus on preservation of what actually happened rather than making >history what we want it to be. We need to remember the real history, SO WE >DON'T REPEAT IT. > >As a people, if we are secure in who we are, we can accept (not agree with >and even detest, but certainly not re-write history) what happen hundreds of >years ago while our focus should be to make sure it doesn't happen today, >while preserving THE TRUTH. > >Fred Bultman >02/22/03 ><snip> > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > "It's a disagreeable thing to be whipped." - Col. William Tecumseh Sherman >==============================================================

This weekend, at select metro St. Louis movie theatres, the Missouri Civil War Museum is making contacts with thousands of area movie goers at various showings of "Gods and Generals". Thankfully we have received an overwhelming ovation as well as a deluge of donations after our presentations during intermission. After talking to hundreds of people, the one message Missourians predominantly indicate is that they are sick and tired of politicians dictating history and misrepresenting their heritage, both Union and Confederate. Plus we are tired of the bitterness that develops because politicians are driving a wedge between our sides. They are festering wounds instead of healing them. If this were Iraq this kind of history by dictators would be unimposible. But with grassroots support we have the power to tell the story as it was, without agenda influenced history from government institutions. In the meantime, as we organize we will have the voting power to some day remove the current "acting dictators" of Missouri history. History may not be a democracy, but portrayal of history at government owned facilities can be misrepresented if we remain uninformed and democratically inactive. After this weekend showing, I have hope that Americans, including Missourians will be much more interested in becoming active, not only learning more, but also taking an active part in protecting their combined heritage. Work on the Museum building at Jefferson Barracks begins in April. Please do your part and volunteer. We will make our Civil War history protected for future generations and free from political dictates. Scott K. Williams, Webmaster The Missouri Civil War Museum http://www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org/

Looking for Philip Mcpherson Born in NJ, I do not know the county Possibly Caldwell MO, Thanks for any help Ann

I have been amazed at some of the comments everyone is making and yet respect all of you for your views. I do believe we must learn from our past to prevent the same mistakes in the future. None of us were alive during that period so the anger should be replaced with respect for our ancestors. I believe an individual should have the right to make the choice of how to show respect. I live in Tennessee and last year when a new road was built over a confederate cemetery, they could not move all of the bodies since graves were not marked. Residents wanted to name the road Confederate Veterans highway. I could not believe the anger this stirred up. History, cemeteries, and symbols of ancestory should not cause such anger. I believe we must respect our history, good or bad. I hope I have offended none. I do enjoy this site. Thank you for all of the information you have helped me with in the past. Rose Allgood

THE TRUTH ..... BRAVO !!! .... BEAUTIFULLY SAID !!! Thank you <<Behind The Smoke Screen - THE TRUTH (True documented historical facts are extremely important in genealogical research!) I've received many e-mails just like everyone else has in this group over the past several months on the Civil War matters from the outrage of the removal of southern Civil War era flags, to which side was on the appropriate side to maybe even that the South still has a chance to win the war; dream on, what's done is done, the South lost. Even though the reasons for the war, total elimination of slavery, flag symbolism and unity under one country/flag and the Northern win, were and are extremely-extremely important, there is an underlying and prevalent issue that everyone is overlooking - THE TRUTH. We as a nation of people are about to re-write history (Civil War history) in order to satisfy a group of people, which doesn't matter whether the group is right or wrong or is a minority or majority of the population. HISTORY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, history can't be changed because a group of individuals today didn't like what happened several hundred years ago or any time period in the past. We as a country need to be extremely careful regarding what we are about to do in altering what actually happened in the past. If we do make changes in our history books, which we are on the verge of doing so, are we as a people, a nation, THE USA, any better than any of the other Dictatorships or Socialistic societies, past or present, who have changed their countries history just to satisfy the desires of the ruling few, at the detriment of their entire society, their history, their genealogy. It appears through all what is happening that the people who are making the most noise, want things to change, whatever those changes are, but one thing for sure is to change written history, these same people are pointing fingers and accusing people of today and from a several hundred years ago for what happened back then. One of the fundamental rights of a USA citizen is reflective in the judicial system of our government is that in a criminal case the defendant has a right to face his or her accuser. Well, from my perspective neither the defendant nor his or accuser is available or alive, so there should not be a trial. We should leave those things as they were and work on making today's issues right and changing today's wrongs. We have the power and hopefully the strength to do so; let's focus on today's issues and fight for the rights of individuals in them. How much better to read a book from the Civil War era, written by someone of that day whether from the north or the south, rather than by someone of today who doesn't have ALL the facts because they were not there. Most people in this group are involved in genealogy and accurate history and preservation of the actual facts are extremely important, let's not lose sight of that. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRUTH. Let us focus on preservation of what actually happened rather than making history what we want it to be. We need to remember the real history, SO WE DON'T REPEAT IT. As a people, if we are secure in who we are, we can accept (not agree with and even detest, but certainly not re-write history) what happen hundreds of years ago while our focus should be to make sure it doesn't happen today, while preserving THE TRUTH. Fred Bultman 02/22/03>>

Behind The Smoke Screen - THE TRUTH (True documented historical facts are extremely important in genealogical research!) I've received many e-mails just like everyone else has in this group over the past several months on the Civil War matters from the outrage of the removal of southern Civil War era flags, to which side was on the appropriate side to maybe even that the South still has a chance to win the war; dream on, what's done is done, the South lost. Even though the reasons for the war, total elimination of slavery, flag symbolism and unity under one country/flag and the Northern win, were and are extremely-extremely important, there is an underlying and prevalent issue that everyone is overlooking - THE TRUTH. We as a nation of people are about to re-write history (Civil War history) in order to satisfy a group of people, which doesn't matter whether the group is right or wrong or is a minority or majority of the population. HISTORY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, history can't be changed because a group of individuals today didn't like what happened several hundred years ago or any time period in the past. We as a country need to be extremely careful regarding what we are about to do in altering what actually happened in the past. If we do make changes in our history books, which we are on the verge of doing so, are we as a people, a nation, THE USA, any better than any of the other Dictatorships or Socialistic societies, past or present, who have changed their countries history just to satisfy the desires of the ruling few, at the detriment of their entire society, their history, their genealogy. It appears through all what is happening that the people who are making the most noise, want things to change, whatever those changes are, but one thing for sure is to change written history, these same people are pointing fingers and accusing people of today and from a several hundred years ago for what happened back then. One of the fundamental rights of a USA citizen is reflective in the judicial system of our government is that in a criminal case the defendant has a right to face his or her accuser. Well, from my perspective neither the defendant nor his or accuser is available or alive, so there should not be a trial. We should leave those things as they were and work on making today's issues right and changing today's wrongs. We have the power and hopefully the strength to do so; let's focus on today's issues and fight for the rights of individuals in them. How much better to read a book from the Civil War era, written by someone of that day whether from the north or the south, rather than by someone of today who doesn't have ALL the facts because they were not there. Most people in this group are involved in genealogy and accurate history and preservation of the actual facts are extremely important, let's not lose sight of that. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRUTH. Let us focus on preservation of what actually happened rather than making history what we want it to be. We need to remember the real history, SO WE DON'T REPEAT IT. As a people, if we are secure in who we are, we can accept (not agree with and even detest, but certainly not re-write history) what happen hundreds of years ago while our focus should be to make sure it doesn't happen today, while preserving THE TRUTH. Fred Bultman 02/22/03 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott K. Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [MO-CW] Missouri > > The war is over! > > You are speaking to the wrong person. Remembering is not my problem. North > AND South is what made America. It is our combined heritage. You can't > segregate our history and still believe in the principles of American > freedom. > > The winners of our Civil War were not fascist. Understand ? > > Scott K. Williams, > Webmaster > The Missouri Civil War Museum > http://www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org/ > > > > > ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== > "It's a disagreeable thing to be whipped." - Col. William Tecumseh Sherman > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Do you guys recommend getting copies of Missouri State Archive records or NARA records for Union vets? (I know - both would be better, but I'm on a limited genealogy budget.) What type info does each contain? Thanks, SharonW

Maria was born in Aesch, Switzerland in 1830 migrated with family to Hermann, Gasconade County, Missouri about 1852, married and can't find since. In her father's will of 1881, she is mentioned as deceased with children, however they are unnamed and no mention of where they lived. Anyone have any information? Would be greatly appreciated. Sharon

when will you people realize that gephardt, holden,talent etc. only have your best interest at heart? they have struggled and starved for years to give you the best gov. money can buy! now shut up and do as your told by your betters and stop whining like you and your vote matter, or these fine monarchs might quit and find work for a living. thanks for listening, i have to go to the art museum now and put clothes on those statues and paintings for mr. asscroft.

So? What's your point?? ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: [MO-CW] Missouri The war is over! ==== MO-CW Mailing List ==== "There are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. And I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter and, I trust, the stronger party." - Ulysses S. Grant ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237