I hate to be the one to break the news, but the idea that shaving cream harms tombstones is a legend, with no basis in reality at all. The "information" posted in the savinggraves link given below is based on a KNOWN HOAX. It is simply a copycat of the well known "Ban DHMO" hoax. Anyone who is willing to accept the suggestion that shaving cream can harm tombstones really should first familarize themselves with the original hoax. You can find a great "Ban DHMO" site here: http://www.dhmo.org/ Just like the 'Ban DHMO' hoax, the 'ban shaving cream' hoax works on the same basis...a reliance on the fact that people are wholly unfamiliar with chemistry in general, and will spend no time at all investigating the claims made by the hoax, and instead just blindly accept them as fact, and then pass it on to other unsuspecting folks - - just like all hoaxes. But even a cursory investigation into the matter will reveal that the claims made against the constituents in shaving cream are not just wrong, but are ridiculous. For example, from the savinggraves link just cited: "These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive." Please...butane? Butane is *a gas*. It has a boiling point (-0.5 C) that is below the freezing point of water (the major constituent of shaving cream), and is used as a propellant. Butane is under pressure in the can, but when released from the can, is under normal pressure of one atmosphere, and is thus volatilized long before it could even be applied to the stone. There are lots of sites all over the internet that make all kinds of claims. Some of them cite the evidence that shows their claim is true. The rest make claims without seeing any need for substantiating documentation at all. These latter claims are called legends, and like bigfoot and the abominable snowman, people believe them. Ask yourself this question: If shaving cream harms tombstones, then where is the evidence that it does? Not "where is yet another site that makes the same claim", but where is the evidence itself? Has anyone ever seen any actual evidence (data, measurements, anything)? Of course you haven't, because there isn't any. And there isn't any because it is the product of a KNOWN HOAX. I am going to quote E.D. here "There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available." You said that right...there is a lot of MISINFORMATION available. Brock Way Genealogy without documentation is mythology. From: "E.D. Seevers" <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [MO-CEM] I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 I don't know how familiar you are with tombstone rubbings, but you might want to read this article before you do. Many older stones are very fragile and rubbings can deteriorate them further. There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available. The best practice is to just be careful and remember that future generations may want to view these valuable resources also. http://www.savinggraves.com/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm The information under this heading is particularly useful... A NOTE ABOUT SHAVING CREAM, FLOUR OR CHALK. I've found that 3D moldings of the stone work very well and aluminum foil is great. It can be purchased cheaply at discount stores. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Friday, March 03, 2006 Dear Listers, Having worked as a chemist for a long time and not scientifically investigated the "shaving cream" issue, I have chosen to avoid the issue for the sake of simply listing a tombstone. Instead, I have chosen the most innocuous method of all, LIGHT. Check out the link following: http://cemeteries.missouri.org/Photo.html#Light . If light is shined obliquely across the face of an engraved tombstone, shadows will form in the recessed portion of the engraving and the contrast with the lighted face makes the lettering just stand out. This is dependent upon sunlight and in the absence of the Sun, a million candlepower, rechargeable, Q-Light makes it easy to read, a line at a time. I admit to using untried chemicals when it is absolutely necessary to clean moss and lichens off of a stone. I have used it on the stones of my ancestors only. Sincerely yours, Wayne Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brock Way" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:25 AM Subject: [MO-CEM] shaving cream on tombstones {was:I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS} > I hate to be the one to break the news, but the idea > that shaving cream harms tombstones is a legend, with > no basis in reality at all. > > The "information" posted in the savinggraves link > given below is based on a KNOWN HOAX. It is simply a > copycat of the well known "Ban DHMO" hoax. Anyone who > is willing to accept the suggestion that shaving cream > can harm tombstones really should first familarize > themselves with the original hoax. You can find a > great "Ban DHMO" site here: > > http://www.dhmo.org/ > > Just like the 'Ban DHMO' hoax, the 'ban shaving cream' > hoax works on the same basis...a reliance on the fact > that people are wholly unfamiliar with chemistry in > general, and will spend no time at all investigating > the claims made by the hoax, and instead just blindly > accept them as fact, and then pass it on to other > unsuspecting folks - - just like all hoaxes. > > But even a cursory investigation into the matter will > reveal that the claims made against the constituents > in shaving cream are not just wrong, but are > ridiculous. For example, from the savinggraves link > just cited: > > "These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones > (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive." > > Please...butane? Butane is *a gas*. It has a boiling > point (-0.5 C) that is below the freezing point of > water (the major constituent of shaving cream), and is > used as a propellant. Butane is under pressure in the > can, but when released from the can, is under normal > pressure of one atmosphere, and is thus volatilized > long before it could even be applied to the stone. > > There are lots of sites all over the internet that > make all kinds of claims. Some of them cite the > evidence that shows their claim is true. The rest make > claims without seeing any need for substantiating > documentation at all. These latter claims are called > legends, and like bigfoot and the abominable snowman, > people believe them. > > Ask yourself this question: If shaving cream harms > tombstones, then where is the evidence that it does? > Not "where is yet another site that makes the same > claim", but where is the evidence itself? Has anyone > ever seen any actual evidence (data, measurements, > anything)? Of course you haven't, because there isn't > any. And there isn't any because it is the product of > a KNOWN HOAX. > > I am going to quote E.D. here "There is a great deal > of > information out there on caring for old tombstones and > a lot of misinformation is available." > > You said that right...there is a lot of MISINFORMATION > available. > > Brock Way > Genealogy without documentation is mythology. > > > From: "E.D. Seevers" <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [MO-CEM] I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS > Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 > > > > I don't know how familiar you are with tombstone > rubbings, but you might > want to read this article before you do. Many older > stones are very fragile > and rubbings can deteriorate them further. There is a > great deal of > information out there on caring for old tombstones and > a lot of > misinformation is available. The best practice is to > just be careful and > remember that future generations may want to view > these valuable resources > also. > > http://www.savinggraves.com/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm > > The information under this heading is particularly > useful... A NOTE ABOUT > SHAVING CREAM, FLOUR OR CHALK. I've found that 3D > moldings of the stone > work very well and aluminum foil is great. It can be > purchased cheaply at > discount stores. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== MO-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett [email protected] > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

I have to step in here on this and point out that promoting the idea that shaving crean is harmless is going to be doing damage to already fragile stones. If you follow the links within the savinggraves link it goes to a page which discusses the reasons for not using shaving cream. Shaving cream contains acids, oils, and waxes that break down the structure of the stone (particularly marble and soft limestone are easily affected by acid); clog the pores of the stone (which changes the ability of the stone to breathe and dry), provide an excellent growth medium for molds and fungi which break down the stone; and the waxes and oils absorb water which, when it freezes, causes tiny amounts of stone to be broken off in the freeze-thaw cycle. All of these effects have been documented for years by professionals who are charged with preserving monuments and stone buildings. Acid rain, which is actually less acidic than shaving cream has been destroying marble and limestone statues and buildings for years. Sandstone monuments are especially brittle and easily subject to damage caused by rubbing in any form and from excess moisture absorbance. In fact most of the sandstone monuments in cemeteries are the hardest to read because of the slow erosion of there surfaces by daily exposure to rain and wind. Do we need to accelerate this? I would first go with the idea of using a strong natural or artificial light to create shadows in the letters (my best tombstone photos have been taken at or near noon when the sun is just crossing the stone and the shadows of the letters are in stark contrast to the bright face of the stone or by using a mirror to reflect the sun and achieve the same effect). Next I would go with a careful use of the profile method using aluminum foil gently pressed into the depressions. You would be surprised at how well this works. It removes the distractions of the mottled coloring of the aged stone crossing letters which disguises them. (take a picture of the stone with and without the aluminum foil.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brock Way" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:25 AM Subject: [MO-CEM] shaving cream on tombstones {was:I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS} I hate to be the one to break the news, but the idea that shaving cream harms tombstones is a legend, with no basis in reality at all. The "information" posted in the savinggraves link given below is based on a KNOWN HOAX. It is simply a copycat of the well known "Ban DHMO" hoax. Anyone who is willing to accept the suggestion that shaving cream can harm tombstones really should first familarize themselves with the original hoax. You can find a great "Ban DHMO" site here: http://www.dhmo.org/ Just like the 'Ban DHMO' hoax, the 'ban shaving cream' hoax works on the same basis...a reliance on the fact that people are wholly unfamiliar with chemistry in general, and will spend no time at all investigating the claims made by the hoax, and instead just blindly accept them as fact, and then pass it on to other unsuspecting folks - - just like all hoaxes. But even a cursory investigation into the matter will reveal that the claims made against the constituents in shaving cream are not just wrong, but are ridiculous. For example, from the savinggraves link just cited: "These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive." Please...butane? Butane is *a gas*. It has a boiling point (-0.5 C) that is below the freezing point of water (the major constituent of shaving cream), and is used as a propellant. Butane is under pressure in the can, but when released from the can, is under normal pressure of one atmosphere, and is thus volatilized long before it could even be applied to the stone. There are lots of sites all over the internet that make all kinds of claims. Some of them cite the evidence that shows their claim is true. The rest make claims without seeing any need for substantiating documentation at all. These latter claims are called legends, and like bigfoot and the abominable snowman, people believe them. Ask yourself this question: If shaving cream harms tombstones, then where is the evidence that it does? Not "where is yet another site that makes the same claim", but where is the evidence itself? Has anyone ever seen any actual evidence (data, measurements, anything)? Of course you haven't, because there isn't any. And there isn't any because it is the product of a KNOWN HOAX. I am going to quote E.D. here "There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available." You said that right...there is a lot of MISINFORMATION available. Brock Way Genealogy without documentation is mythology. From: "E.D. Seevers" <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [MO-CEM] I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 I don't know how familiar you are with tombstone rubbings, but you might want to read this article before you do. Many older stones are very fragile and rubbings can deteriorate them further. There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available. The best practice is to just be careful and remember that future generations may want to view these valuable resources also. http://www.savinggraves.com/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm The information under this heading is particularly useful... A NOTE ABOUT SHAVING CREAM, FLOUR OR CHALK. I've found that 3D moldings of the stone work very well and aluminum foil is great. It can be purchased cheaply at discount stores. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ==== MO-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett [email protected] ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

--- Brec Morton <[email protected]> wrote: > All of these effects have been documented for years > by professionals who are charged with preserving > monuments and stone buildings. I haven't seen any documentation on shaving cream effects AT ALL. And you certainly haven't shown any documentation on it. And savinggraves certainly hasn't shown any documentation on it. If there is so much documentation on it, then where is it? Let's see this documentation, if it really exists. There is certainly no shortage of places that *claim* shaving cream causes harm. What there is, is a shortage of EVIDENCE that the claim is true. Why do people post yet another website with the same CLAIM, as if yet another re-iteration of the same CLAIM is somehow evidence? Evidence and claims are different things. I am tired of claims masquerading as evidence. If there is evidence, then let's see it. Brock Way __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

I mentioned the link within the savinggraves page which provided detailed information on why you should not use shaving cream. It can be found at the end of the first paragraph under the heading A NOTE ABOUT SHAVING CREAM, FLOUR OR CHALK All of these effects take time but why speed the process. Thanks for listening. Brec Morton

Hello everyone, I've been through this topic before on various lists. Everyone is not going to agree, no matter what facts are presented. Depending on which side you are on, you can find information to back your stand. In some cases, no one seems to check the information's date. The date of the article should be considered with the information in it. This is the first time I remember hearing about aluminum foil. Depending on the marker, I can imagine this might work. I've also heard black lights can help. I haven't found a portable black light yet to try. There are markers that unless vandals attack them would seem to last forever. There are others that as soon as they were placed on the grave started to deteriorate. No matter what you use, if it touches the marker, there will be some that are damaged. I've actually seen some that to touch them left my fingers white. When I gently blew across one, there was white in the air. The wind, rain, sleet and hail had and was destroying those type markers. The trick is to do NO damage to a particular stone, which may depend on it's construction materials. I'm not a expert in different types of tombstones. Here's an old answer on a heating conversation from the KS Cemeteries list archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/KS-CEMETERIES you may find interesting. http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/KS-CEMETERIES/2004-08/1093915007 Orlena ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brock Way <[email protected]> wrote: I hate to be the one to break the news, but the idea that shaving cream harms tombstones is a legend, with no basis in reality at all. The "information" posted in the savinggraves link given below is based on a KNOWN HOAX. It is simply a copycat of the well known "Ban DHMO" hoax. Anyone who is willing to accept the suggestion that shaving cream can harm tombstones really should first familarize themselves with the original hoax. You can find a great "Ban DHMO" site here: http://www.dhmo.org/ Just like the 'Ban DHMO' hoax, the 'ban shaving cream' hoax works on the same basis...a reliance on the fact that people are wholly unfamiliar with chemistry in general, and will spend no time at all investigating the claims made by the hoax, and instead just blindly accept them as fact, and then pass it on to other unsuspecting folks - - just like all hoaxes. But even a cursory investigation into the matter will reveal that the claims made against the constituents in shaving cream are not just wrong, but are ridiculous. For example, from the savinggraves link just cited: "These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive." Please...butane? Butane is *a gas*. It has a boiling point (-0.5 C) that is below the freezing point of water (the major constituent of shaving cream), and is used as a propellant. Butane is under pressure in the can, but when released from the can, is under normal pressure of one atmosphere, and is thus volatilized long before it could even be applied to the stone. There are lots of sites all over the internet that make all kinds of claims. Some of them cite the evidence that shows their claim is true. The rest make claims without seeing any need for substantiating documentation at all. These latter claims are called legends, and like bigfoot and the abominable snowman, people believe them. Ask yourself this question: If shaving cream harms tombstones, then where is the evidence that it does? Not "where is yet another site that makes the same claim", but where is the evidence itself? Has anyone ever seen any actual evidence (data, measurements, anything)? Of course you haven't, because there isn't any. And there isn't any because it is the product of a KNOWN HOAX. I am going to quote E.D. here "There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available." You said that right...there is a lot of MISINFORMATION available. Brock Way Genealogy without documentation is mythology. From: "E.D. Seevers" Subject: RE: [MO-CEM] I HAVE OVER 110 CEMETERY PHOTOS Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 I don't know how familiar you are with tombstone rubbings, but you might want to read this article before you do. Many older stones are very fragile and rubbings can deteriorate them further. There is a great deal of information out there on caring for old tombstones and a lot of misinformation is available. The best practice is to just be careful and remember that future generations may want to view these valuable resources also. http://www.savinggraves.com/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm The information under this heading is particularly useful... A NOTE ABOUT SHAVING CREAM, FLOUR OR CHALK. I've found that 3D moldings of the stone work very well and aluminum foil is great. It can be purchased cheaply at discount stores. __________________________________________________