Hi Mary - I applaud your willingness to give back to the genealogy community. :-) I've been a volunteer with Find A Grave project for a year & a half, and relish visiting beautiful cemeteries in rural areas of the Midwest. Whenever I visit a cemetery to take a photo of one of my ancestor's gravestones, I check the cemetery's list of interments & online memorials at the Find A Grave web site, and for any online memorials that lack gravestone photos or that have unclaimed photo requests, I take photographs of these as well. Here are some techniques I've found useful: In most cases I like to crouch so I'm taking a photo of the stone straight on, instead of from a height. The exception to this is when a stone has a highly reflective surface and reflects my image. In this case, I might find it necessary to step further away from the stone, or take the photo from an angle above or to the side of the stone. I use photo editing software to edit & crop photos when I get home, but I can save myself the effort if I make sure my photos are aligned horizontally along either the bottom or the top of the photo. I bring a whisk broom to clear away any grass clippings, a small garden clipper to trim long grass from around the stone, and a soft rag with which to clean away any "schmutz" like bird droppings from the stone. If I take photos during the winter, I also bring a push broom to clear snow away from stones which are flush to the ground. A technique I learned from the Central Missouri Cemeteries: Cemetery Photography web page http://cemeteries.missouri.org/Photo.html is to bring a light-weight wall mirror so I can reflect light on any stones that are cast into shadow by the angle of the sun or by vegetation. I just found this web page which looks like it has lots of good details too: Cemetery & Headstone Photography: The StonePics Method at http://www.stonepics.com/newfoundland_cemeteries/method.htm Another web page offering info on photographing gravestones is Tips for Photographing Gravestones at http://www.genealogy.com/genealogy/64_gravestones.html Best wishes & I hope you enjoy using your new camera! Joy Joy Schwarz http://del.icio.us/freude On 7/4/07, Arthur Sloan <david.sloan@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > We recently bought a new digital camera and are > wanting to make pictures of headstones for our > records. Hopefully, we'll get proficient enough to > make pictures of stones for others as RAGK. My > question of the list is: What would be some hints, > suggestions, cautions, things TO do as well as NOT to > do, etc. Are there those of you who have made such > pictures with really good results as well as not so > good results? We are wanting to "give back" to the > public some of the help that has been given us through > the years with our genealogy and thought this would be > appropriate. Eager to hear from you. > Mary (Wallace)Sloan @ > david.sloan@sbcglobal.net

You would think they would give it to the geneology society. Sometimes you wonder what people are thinking, especially educated people. >>> Sugarfoot1@aol.com 7/4/2007 10:49:04 PM >>> Bill, Thank you for the great information. I do have one comment where you say 'In the areas you are searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records'. I've found that not all church's keep the records. St. Joseph's in Manchester, Mo threw all of their old and not so old records away. They do not even have a record of my grandfather who was buried there in 1970 or my grandmother who was buried there JUST 13 years ago in 1994! I was trying to find out which relatives they were buried on top of, but now, I'll never know. It's a lost cause. They told me that they threw all the records away because they didn't have room to store them. When I asked why someone didn't put the info on computer disk, the man got very irate and told me that they didn't have the time and that no one there really cared about old records. It sickens me to think of all the family history that they threw away. I know that about 15 years ago, they had the records stored in the convent and I was allowed to see them but they stayed in the room with me the whole time. It was a beautiful old book with all the names and dates inscribed. They protected that book like it was gold only to throw it away years later because no one cared?!?!?!? I wish now that I'd been more serious about genealogy but back then, I was more curious than serious. Julee In a message dated 7/4/2007 2:02:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mo-cemeteries-request@rootsweb.com writes: Message: 2 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:19:24 -0500 From: kimbuc4@juno.com Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <20070703.181925.1108.0.kimbuc4@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List members, It seems that many on this list ask about where a particular cemetery is located since they can't find it. GNIS is out there and doesn't contain a listing of all the cemeteries and darn few associated with churches. If you can't find the cemetery, look for the church. In the areas you are searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records. In Linn Missouri St. George Cemetery was opened a few years back, not all the bodies were moved to the new cemetery the tombstones were and are now located in the back part of the new cemetery, the bodies are under the parking lot behind the church. Hey guys cemeteries are interesting, historical treasurers and should be taken care of forever. In the olden days people would have family picnics in them. Bill ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Advise for what it is worth. Both of you shoot something every day and down load, keep note book on shot and technique , star those that really please you(in notebook) of course you keep these,Erase the rest and start over. A few hints when doing close ups m have a reflective surface with you, and bounce the light, both from the side and again from top or bottom at an angle to the surface. My husband does the in computer work, but learn to do it as I feel restricted when having to explain the shot I want. Bud. -----Original Message----- From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Sloan Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:01 PM To: MO-CEMETERIES@rootsweb.com Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Headstone pictures We recently bought a new digital camera and are wanting to make pictures of headstones for our records. Hopefully, we'll get proficient enough to make pictures of stones for others as RAGK. My question of the list is: What would be some hints, suggestions, cautions, things TO do as well as NOT to do, etc. Are there those of you who have made such pictures with really good results as well as not so good results? We are wanting to "give back" to the public some of the help that has been given us through the years with our genealogy and thought this would be appropriate. Eager to hear from you. Mary (Wallace)Sloan @ david.sloan@sbcglobal.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, Thank you for the great information. I do have one comment where you say 'In the areas you are searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records'. I've found that not all church's keep the records. St. Joseph's in Manchester, Mo threw all of their old and not so old records away. They do not even have a record of my grandfather who was buried there in 1970 or my grandmother who was buried there JUST 13 years ago in 1994! I was trying to find out which relatives they were buried on top of, but now, I'll never know. It's a lost cause. They told me that they threw all the records away because they didn't have room to store them. When I asked why someone didn't put the info on computer disk, the man got very irate and told me that they didn't have the time and that no one there really cared about old records. It sickens me to think of all the family history that they threw away. I know that about 15 years ago, they had the records stored in the convent and I was allowed to see them but they stayed in the room with me the whole time. It was a beautiful old book with all the names and dates inscribed. They protected that book like it was gold only to throw it away years later because no one cared?!?!?!? I wish now that I'd been more serious about genealogy but back then, I was more curious than serious. Julee In a message dated 7/4/2007 2:02:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mo-cemeteries-request@rootsweb.com writes: Message: 2 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:19:24 -0500 From: kimbuc4@juno.com Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <20070703.181925.1108.0.kimbuc4@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List members, It seems that many on this list ask about where a particular cemetery is located since they can't find it. GNIS is out there and doesn't contain a listing of all the cemeteries and darn few associated with churches. If you can't find the cemetery, look for the church. In the areas you are searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records. In Linn Missouri St. George Cemetery was opened a few years back, not all the bodies were moved to the new cemetery the tombstones were and are now located in the back part of the new cemetery, the bodies are under the parking lot behind the church. Hey guys cemeteries are interesting, historical treasurers and should be taken care of forever. In the olden days people would have family picnics in them. Bill ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Some of my best neighbors have been those with a permanent address. I have all my married life lived within site of a cemetery(all over the world). I even seem to select vacation areas with cemeteries. My Grandfather was a lay preacher and grandmother was known for her flowers, so We spent a lot of time at grave sites. My parents were also owners and caretakers of the family Cemetery, now in the fifth generation. And I am the presiding officer. Country ways(USA) still respect and honor these scared sites blessed or not. Our tears of passing and joys of remembering will stay with us as long as we have life. I have found a long probe helps locate long buried markers. Sometimes the application of water to old sandstone markers will give a faint image. The computer can help also, by using grayscale and removing or adding a single tone at a view. Please, while scanning old news, look and record those hints at a burial, send them on to those of us who love putting puzzles together. One needs some idea of location(County/Township/district), and probable family association. Then the old atlases, Roadmaps especially locale ones, Church records, odd sites in a field. We have one that is a mound (Mesa) in the middle (NOW) of a corn field. It is a pre Civil War site and the makers were under about a foot of debris , also nearly 3 feet of brambles and weeds and scrub trees. The farming around it has compressed the soil( and erosion) over four feet. I am sure soil was removed to increase the banks of the near by railroad line, Part of the reason for abandoning it. It is recorded and on file. Bud. -----Original Message----- From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Vandergriff Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 3:26 PM To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 To: Elaine in Hollister, Mo. There is my family cemetery on our property. It is located in a field, with no fence or anything such as a sign saying that it is a cemetery. It is just there, in the middle of the field. There are several family members burried there that do not have stones on them. There was no money at the time, and since it was a family cemetery, the other family members knew who was burried there and when they died. So that was all that mattered. The sad part is, that the information never gets recorded or handed down to future generations. So I think you are absolutely right about the reason for not having a stone on a grave. It's so true but yet so sad. Patty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine O'Neill" <elaineoneill1948@gmail.com> To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > Thank you, Bill for all the wonderful information. I intend to file > this for future reference. > > I have one question, if I may. Don't know if you'll have an answer, > but I'll take that chance. > > What are the odds, in poor, rural areas in the last half of the 19th > century, that persons were buried on family land...no gravestone, no > record anywhere of a burial? I have on in particular I've been > searching for in either Howell or Texas county. The cemetery books > have been checked there is no listing anywhere for her. There are > other members of her family that are equally elusive. I wonder if > they were just buried "out back under the Maple tree" and then when > the family moved on they are left behind and forgotten. > This is the only scenario that makes any sense at this point. > > Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this sort of situation. > > Elaine O'. > Hollister, MO > On 7/3/07, kimbuc4@juno.com <kimbuc4@juno.com> wrote: > > List members, > > > > For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning > > the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > > > > I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new > > members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mary. Its great to help others. "Find-a-Grave" or FAG as members call it, is a web site where you can volunteer to take stone photos for people. Its lots of fun although the people your helping dont always thank you as they should. You can always leave your camera in auto setting and let the camera adjust itself or take a quick class at community college? Check out find-a -grave you'll get hooked tromping through old cemeteries. elaine in seattle On Jul 4, 2007, at 9:00 PM, Arthur Sloan wrote: > We recently bought a new digital camera and are > wanting to make pictures of headstones for our > records. Hopefully, we'll get proficient enough to > make pictures of stones for others as RAGK. My > question of the list is: What would be some hints, > suggestions, cautions, things TO do as well as NOT to > do, etc. Are there those of you who have made such > pictures with really good results as well as not so > good results? We are wanting to "give back" to the > public some of the help that has been given us through > the years with our genealogy and thought this would be > appropriate. Eager to hear from you. > Mary (Wallace)Sloan @ > david.sloan@sbcglobal.net > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

We recently bought a new digital camera and are wanting to make pictures of headstones for our records. Hopefully, we'll get proficient enough to make pictures of stones for others as RAGK. My question of the list is: What would be some hints, suggestions, cautions, things TO do as well as NOT to do, etc. Are there those of you who have made such pictures with really good results as well as not so good results? We are wanting to "give back" to the public some of the help that has been given us through the years with our genealogy and thought this would be appropriate. Eager to hear from you. Mary (Wallace)Sloan @ david.sloan@sbcglobal.net

To: Elaine in Hollister, Mo. There is my family cemetery on our property. It is located in a field, with no fence or anything such as a sign saying that it is a cemetery. It is just there, in the middle of the field. There are several family members burried there that do not have stones on them. There was no money at the time, and since it was a family cemetery, the other family members knew who was burried there and when they died. So that was all that mattered. The sad part is, that the information never gets recorded or handed down to future generations. So I think you are absolutely right about the reason for not having a stone on a grave. It's so true but yet so sad. Patty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine O'Neill" <elaineoneill1948@gmail.com> To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > Thank you, Bill for all the wonderful information. I intend to file > this for future reference. > > I have one question, if I may. Don't know if you'll have an answer, > but I'll take that chance. > > What are the odds, in poor, rural areas in the last half of the 19th > century, that persons were buried on family land...no gravestone, no > record anywhere of a burial? I have on in particular I've been > searching for in either Howell or Texas county. The cemetery books > have been checked there is no listing anywhere for her. There are > other members of her family that are equally elusive. I wonder if > they were just buried "out back under the Maple tree" and then when > the family moved on they are left behind and forgotten. > This is the only scenario that makes any sense at this point. > > Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this sort of situation. > > Elaine O'. > Hollister, MO > On 7/3/07, kimbuc4@juno.com <kimbuc4@juno.com> wrote: > > List members, > > > > For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning > > the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > > > > I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new > > members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I'm not too sure that that is true in today's world. Five years ago that was true; but, it is my understanding that, there is recent legislation controlling where an individual may be buried, how much land must be surveyed and set aside, and an endowment set aside for the perpetual care of that cemetery. I can tell you that it is not covered in RSMO 214 or RSMO 194 so I really need to do some checking to find out what RSMO's or CSR's do cover it. Until you know for sure, don't plan on planting Grandpa under the big tree on the knoll on the back 40. I will do so looking on the subject and let you know. Sincerely yours, Wayne Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "samuels" <dwsbgs@centurytel.net> To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] Family Land Burials >A side note to this; In MO. one needed and needs only a death certificate >to > bury anywhere not regulated by a community, land restriction, religious > affiliation or other items.ie. my husband could have buried me under the > front porch if he so choose. Your laugh or chill for the day! Looking out > the restaurant window at a car running with A.C.going and an old man in > the > rear,I ask the couple if he needed to be served." No. they replied. "we > are > taking him home to bury" and the wife produced a death certificate. Bud. > > -----Original Message----- > From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of kimbuc4@juno.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:19 AM > To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Family Land Burials > > Elaine; > > There are many burials on family land. My father-in-law was born and > raised just outside of Bonnots Mill, Mo on the family farm. Just next to > the road leading into the farm are a couple of tombstones. Dad said as > kids they all stayed away from these graves, especially since they didn't > know the people buried there. > > As today, burials are costly and were extremely costly to our ancestors. > To their way of thinking the family farm was the place to be buried, it > saved family monetary resources and then not all of these burials were > covered by official records. The old western movies always had snippets > showing burials along the trails with a rock for a tombstone or a wooden > cross. I would suspect that if the landowner knew the person, they may > have made a notation in the family paper records. One place I would look > would be an attempt to find a family bible where some of these unknown > burials might be noted. Then again, you might find people like my wife > and I that started out with good intentions of keeping the record up to > date in our Family Bible, but after 5 children, the next 4 never made it > to the Bible. > > It would be interesting to check the list and see how many have continued > to track their children with the individual books to record our > children's life. The first child was usually covered rather well while > all of the following children's history is stuffed away on a bunch of > small scraps of paper and then into a shoe box. > > Our younger children now in their 40's wonder if we lost our camera when > they were little, while we have tons of photos of our oldest daughter. > > Your comment about "out back under the Maple tree" for their burials may > be the answer. Some people refer to these burials and note them as "Known > to God Alone". > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Saint Anthony' used to be in the city but is now in South County at Interstate 255 and Mo. Highway 21Missouri Baptist was originally in the City at N. Taylor but is now in West County. about a half mile south of St. John's Mercy.. Missouri Baptist was the first hospital to move to county. They were impacted in the city and could not add more to the existing buildings. My oldest son was born at MoBap in the City. My youngest son was born at MoBap in the County...one of the first babies born there in 1966. Jeane D.. kimbuc4@juno.com wrote: List members, For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning the lack of information on burials and tombstones. I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. Only about 60 -70 percent of burials are covered by a tombstone!. Why? They cost a pile of money and years ago many families couldn't afford them. I believe you will find many homemade tombstones, particularly in rural cemeteries. Then here in St. Louis you will find cemeteries where tombstones have been removed because they were damaged, some were toppled over and left on the ground and eventually covered over by dirt. I have relatives who were buried in one cemetery where the cemetery removed the stones because the family hadn't paid the Endowed/Perpetual Care. The there are the vandal damaged cemeteries, this is when many will find that it is the family's responsibility to either repair, replace or abandon the tombstone to the landfill. Then there are those instances where there is a MEMORIAL Stone, there is no burial. At Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery there are several of these in areas where no burials can be made due to the ground conditions, rock. Every veteran is authorized a tombstone, even those men and women lost at sea, or MIA and POW. For the lost grandfather, chances are he is buried right next to his wife and won't be found unless you open the grave, why not install the double headstone to at least acknowledge his existence? Of course there are cemeteries where this isn't always the case. St. Rose in St. Rose Illinois is an example. They follow the rule that you are buried as you die, in sequence, spouses will be found separated in this cemetery. When we removed the burials at Washington Park Cemetery, the tombstones were relocated to the new cemetery, if they weren't damaged, but they were not reset in an upright position, that cost too much money and the relocation effort was already costly, so the new cemetery laid the stone on the ground over the grave. These mass relocations were done at basically two cemeteries in the St. Louis area, both religious affiliated. The old tombstones were destroyed and dumped into landfills. There were some rather expensive tombstones destroyed because they had chips along the edges, some of these had photo images that were also destroyed. This could start another thread, but let me say at this point there are no laws to cover tombstones. There are cemetery rules, i.e. if damaged they can removed and destroyed. Should a VA stone be place in a non-VA cemetery the family will frequently pay the installation fee, if this stone is later destroyed in this non-VA cemetery the VA is to be called and they will either pick up the stone or tell the cemetery to destroy it, they will not normally provide a replacement stone. But at the VA cemetery they will install a new stone at government expense. You must also remember that tombstones frequently contain wrong information. Frequently this is the only place you have for information on the persons birth, however, treat it with some suspicion until you find some information closer to his birth. The best rule of thumb is to use the information closest to the event. For example, Death Certificates are not always correct when it comes to the Date of Birth, nor where the person or their parents were born. I have one family with 8 children. The father is listed a JOHN HERMAN, HERMAN JOHN, JOHN H., H. JOHN and HERMAN HENRY then HENRY HERMAN. His name was found to be JOHN HERMAN HENRY, Germans used all names, Given, Baptismal, Confirmation and then finally Surname. Naturally they can all be found misspelled, because the person providing the information couldn't read or write. My method of madness is: Tombstone Obit Death Certificate Wedding License, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil and one Religious. Baptismal Record Birth Record, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil and one Religious. Lest I forget Middle names are frequently found on Baptismal Records that even the parents weren't aware of. If the parents didn't provide the name of a saint the priest often used Mary for girls and Joseph for the boys. Use hard evidence, but remember that paper records were frequently destroyed by fire, it almost seems that many of the court houses had fires in 1890. Then the registration of births wasn't really required in Missouri until the late 1900 decade, if memory serves me right about 1907. Another bit of information you might keep in the back of your mind. In Missouri, it is the responsibility of the Funeral Director to fill out the Death Certificate. He does this by talking with the family and hospital. The Doctor is the one that signs the Death Certificate. Then again another problem. can enter here. My brother-in-law died at 11:00 PM. on a given date, but the on duty doctor didn't pronounce him dead unto 3:00 am the next day, guess what date is on his death certificate. I have a neighbor who was born in Illinois, the midwife who delivered him didn't like Illinois so she registered his birth in St. Louis County, Missouri. You will find in St. Louis several births recorded as: DePaul Hospital, St. Louis, City, Missouri and DePaul Hospital, Bridgeton, St. Louis County, Missouri. Both are correct the hospital moved. St. Luke's Hospital, St. John's Mercy and The Christian Hospitals have all relocated to the county area. Many people will say they were born in St. Louis, at St. Mary's Hospital, when they were really born in St. Louis County. This may sound picky, but it is a fact. Obituaries are another source of data, however, they are not always correct, they aren't free and yes I know some of you will say the funeral home pays for them. I ask you who pays the funeral home? Funeral Homes are a business and this is a subject for another time. It seems that many on this list ask about where a particular cemetery is located since they can't find it. GNIS is out there and doesn't contain a listing of all the cemeteries and darn few associated with churches. If you can't find the cemetery, look for the church. In the areas you are searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records. In Linn Missouri St. George Cemetery was opened a few years back, not all the bodies were moved to the new cemetery the tombstones were and are now located in the back part of the new cemetery, the bodies are under the parking lot behind the church. Hey guys cemeteries are interesting, historical treasurers and should be taken care of forever. In the olden days people would have family picnics in them. Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Many would be scantily clad if dressed in their own humility. HUGS HUGS HUGS

Yes; go to St Louis Historical Society, I believe they are now in the public Library Building, That is a deed controlled Cemetery. Bud. -----Original Message----- From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Genealogya@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:04 AM To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Chesterfield Cemetery I am curious about a very small cemetery. It is located behind Chesterfield Mall, Chesterfield, MO (St. Louis County). It is well maintained, has a fence around it and appears the gate is always locked. And is just up the road from the YMCA and the Library. Would anyone have any information on it? Thanks, Frances ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A side note to this; In MO. one needed and needs only a death certificate to bury anywhere not regulated by a community, land restriction, religious affiliation or other items.ie. my husband could have buried me under the front porch if he so choose. Your laugh or chill for the day! Looking out the restaurant window at a car running with A.C.going and an old man in the rear,I ask the couple if he needed to be served." No. they replied. "we are taking him home to bury" and the wife produced a death certificate. Bud. -----Original Message----- From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of kimbuc4@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:19 AM To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Family Land Burials Elaine; There are many burials on family land. My father-in-law was born and raised just outside of Bonnots Mill, Mo on the family farm. Just next to the road leading into the farm are a couple of tombstones. Dad said as kids they all stayed away from these graves, especially since they didn't know the people buried there. As today, burials are costly and were extremely costly to our ancestors. To their way of thinking the family farm was the place to be buried, it saved family monetary resources and then not all of these burials were covered by official records. The old western movies always had snippets showing burials along the trails with a rock for a tombstone or a wooden cross. I would suspect that if the landowner knew the person, they may have made a notation in the family paper records. One place I would look would be an attempt to find a family bible where some of these unknown burials might be noted. Then again, you might find people like my wife and I that started out with good intentions of keeping the record up to date in our Family Bible, but after 5 children, the next 4 never made it to the Bible. It would be interesting to check the list and see how many have continued to track their children with the individual books to record our children's life. The first child was usually covered rather well while all of the following children's history is stuffed away on a bunch of small scraps of paper and then into a shoe box. Our younger children now in their 40's wonder if we lost our camera when they were little, while we have tons of photos of our oldest daughter. Your comment about "out back under the Maple tree" for their burials may be the answer. Some people refer to these burials and note them as "Known to God Alone". ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for all those new to cemetery tracing and the laws (in Mo,). Yes, folks there are burial sites where one pays yearly for upkeep, actually to keep the space. Europe even has a greater problem, no space. Many Cemeteries are a privately owned business and your contract with them is a legal paper(not much value in a few cases). Many older cemeteries are not platted. Customs are different in different areas. And the discussion goes on. For those needing some of the removals to make Lake of the Ozarks(Bagnall Dam) and Truman Lake(kaysinger-Osage Dam) I have lists and will try to do look ups. The lists are far from complete and address of party taking responsibility may no longer be valid. Bud. -----Original Message----- From: mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mo-cemeteries-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Beverly Weldon Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:14 PM To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 What a good take on cemeteries and tombstones. It is too bad that this is so true. Thank you for a wonderful article. Beverly -----Original Message----- >From: kimbuc4@juno.com >Sent: Jul 3, 2007 6:19 PM >To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > >List members, > >For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning >the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > >I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new >members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > >Only about 60 -70 percent of burials are covered by a tombstone!. Why? >They cost a pile of money and years ago many families couldn't afford >them. I believe you will find many homemade tombstones, particularly in >rural cemeteries. Then here in St. Louis you will find cemeteries where >tombstones have been removed because they were damaged, some were toppled >over and left on the ground and eventually covered over by dirt. I have >relatives who were buried in one cemetery where the cemetery removed the >stones because the family hadn't paid the Endowed/Perpetual Care. The >there are the vandal damaged cemeteries, this is when many will find that >it is the family's responsibility to either repair, replace or abandon >the tombstone to the landfill. > >Then there are those instances where there is a MEMORIAL Stone, there is >no burial. At Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery there are several of >these in areas where no burials can be made due to the ground conditions, >rock. Every veteran is authorized a tombstone, even those men and women >lost at sea, or MIA and POW. For the lost grandfather, chances are he is >buried right next to his wife and won't be found unless you open the >grave, why not install the double headstone to at least acknowledge his >existence? Of course there are cemeteries where this isn't always the >case. St. Rose in St. Rose Illinois is an example. They follow the rule >that you are buried as you die, in sequence, spouses will be found >separated in this cemetery. > >When we removed the burials at Washington Park Cemetery, the tombstones >were relocated to the new cemetery, if they weren't damaged, but they >were not reset in an upright position, that cost too much money and the >relocation effort was already costly, so the new cemetery laid the stone >on the ground over the grave. These mass relocations were done at >basically two cemeteries in the St. Louis area, both religious >affiliated. The old tombstones were destroyed and dumped into landfills. >There were some rather expensive tombstones destroyed because they had >chips along the edges, some of these had photo images that were also >destroyed. This could start another thread, but let me say at this point >there are no laws to cover tombstones. There are cemetery rules, i.e. if >damaged they can removed and destroyed. Should a VA stone be place in a >non-VA cemetery the family will frequently pay the installation fee, if >this stone is later destroyed in this non-VA cemetery the VA is to be >called and they will either pick up the stone or tell the cemetery to >destroy it, they will not normally provide a replacement stone. But at >the VA cemetery they will install a new stone at government expense. > >You must also remember that tombstones frequently contain wrong >information. Frequently this is the only place you have for information >on the persons birth, however, treat it with some suspicion until you >find some information closer to his birth. The best rule of thumb is to >use the information closest to the event. For example, Death Certificates >are not always correct when it comes to the Date of Birth, nor where the >person or their parents were born. I have one family with 8 children. The >father is listed a JOHN HERMAN, HERMAN JOHN, JOHN H., H. JOHN and HERMAN >HENRY then HENRY HERMAN. His name was found to be JOHN HERMAN HENRY, >Germans used all names, Given, Baptismal, Confirmation and then finally >Surname. Naturally they can all be found misspelled, because the person >providing the information couldn't read or write. > >My method of madness is: >Tombstone >Obit >Death Certificate >Wedding License, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil >and one Religious. >Baptismal Record >Birth Record, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil and >one Religious. > >Lest I forget Middle names are frequently found on Baptismal Records that >even the parents weren't aware of. If the parents didn't provide the name >of a saint the priest often used Mary for girls and Joseph for the boys. > >Use hard evidence, but remember that paper records were frequently >destroyed by fire, it almost seems that many of the court houses had >fires in 1890. Then the registration of births wasn't really required in >Missouri until the late 1900 decade, if memory serves me right about >1907. > >Another bit of information you might keep in the back of your mind. In >Missouri, it is the responsibility of the Funeral Director to fill out >the Death Certificate. He does this by talking with the family and >hospital. The Doctor is the one that signs the Death Certificate. Then >again another problem. can enter here. My brother-in-law died at 11:00 >PM. on a given date, but the on duty doctor didn't pronounce him dead >unto 3:00 am the next day, guess what date is on his death certificate. I >have a neighbor who was born in Illinois, the midwife who delivered him >didn't like Illinois so she registered his birth in St. Louis County, >Missouri. > >You will find in St. Louis several births recorded as: >DePaul Hospital, St. Louis, City, Missouri and DePaul Hospital, >Bridgeton, St. Louis County, Missouri. Both are correct the hospital >moved. >St. Luke's Hospital, St. John's Mercy and The Christian Hospitals have >all relocated to the county area. Many people will say they were born in >St. Louis, at St. Mary's Hospital, when they were really born in St. >Louis County. > >This may sound picky, but it is a fact. > >Obituaries are another source of data, however, they are not always >correct, they aren't free and yes I know some of you will say the funeral >home pays for them. I ask you who pays the funeral home? Funeral Homes >are a business and this is a subject for another time. > >It seems that many on this list ask about where a particular cemetery is >located since they can't find it. GNIS is out there and doesn't contain a >listing of all the cemeteries and darn few associated with churches. If >you can't find the cemetery, look for the church. In the areas you are >searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the >middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records. In Linn >Missouri St. George Cemetery was opened a few years back, not all the >bodies were moved to the new cemetery the tombstones were and are now >located in the back part of the new cemetery, the bodies are under the >parking lot behind the church. > >Hey guys cemeteries are interesting, historical treasurers and should be >taken care of forever. In the olden days people would have family picnics >in them. > >Bill > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am curious about a very small cemetery. It is located behind Chesterfield Mall, Chesterfield, MO (St. Louis County). It is well maintained, has a fence around it and appears the gate is always locked. And is just up the road from the YMCA and the Library. Would anyone have any information on it? Thanks, Frances ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Elaine; There are many burials on family land. My father-in-law was born and raised just outside of Bonnots Mill, Mo on the family farm. Just next to the road leading into the farm are a couple of tombstones. Dad said as kids they all stayed away from these graves, especially since they didn't know the people buried there. As today, burials are costly and were extremely costly to our ancestors. To their way of thinking the family farm was the place to be buried, it saved family monetary resources and then not all of these burials were covered by official records. The old western movies always had snippets showing burials along the trails with a rock for a tombstone or a wooden cross. I would suspect that if the landowner knew the person, they may have made a notation in the family paper records. One place I would look would be an attempt to find a family bible where some of these unknown burials might be noted. Then again, you might find people like my wife and I that started out with good intentions of keeping the record up to date in our Family Bible, but after 5 children, the next 4 never made it to the Bible. It would be interesting to check the list and see how many have continued to track their children with the individual books to record our children's life. The first child was usually covered rather well while all of the following children's history is stuffed away on a bunch of small scraps of paper and then into a shoe box. Our younger children now in their 40's wonder if we lost our camera when they were little, while we have tons of photos of our oldest daughter. Your comment about "out back under the Maple tree" for their burials may be the answer. Some people refer to these burials and note them as "Known to God Alone".

Another scenario is that grandmother "so and so" was buried not in a cemetery but "in the family farm west of ......." I have that problem with one of my relatives. The only clue I have now is a statement from an elderly relative that he "I remember there may have been an old tombstone leaned up against the barn when I was a kid". Eeesh... Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne and Sharon Johnson" <johnsonwe@earthlink.net> To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: 07/04/2007 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > Wednesday, July 04, 2007 > > Dear Elaine, > > The scenario that you present is very possible. In fact, it happens > frequently. In many of the cases, part of the burials in a small family > plot were documented by tombstones and that little family burial site is so > well hidden that common knowledge of it has disappeared long ago. In many > cases, the landowners are reluctant to disclose the fact that a cemetery > exists on the property out of fear that it will ruin the value of the > property or place them in a situation in which they will have to spend on > the cemetery or to maintain it. > > When I started actively seeking to locate the small family cemeteries of > Callaway County, Missouri a little over five years ago, the historical > society had a catalog of 223 cemeteries in the county. That catalog was > compiled by two men working together for approximately five years in the > early 1980's. Since that time another individual and myself have been > adding to that catalog of known cemeteries and the total for the county as > of today is 301 cemeteries and we have a list of approximately forty more > cemeteries that we have yet to check out. When we started, there were a > number of those added that were commonly known; but still not in the > catalog; but now we are getting down to the ones that are increasingly more > difficult to find, and to find reference to. About half of our leads still > come in by word of mouth; but many are being discovered from references in > probate records or an obituary indicating that an unlocated individual was > buried in the "family" cemetery. It just takes patience and diligence > seeking and following up on every lead to bring these lost cemeteries to > light. Don't think that we win every one of them; because we don't; but we > are still bringing in a number of newly found cemeteries every year. As > long as they haven't been physically destroyed, they are possible to find. > > Old land records are still the best place to start when seeking the > "family" cemetery. Land patents and historic atlases are the greatest help > in locating those cemeteries. Just simply knowing where the properties > owned by the family are located, selecting the oldest male member of the > family whose burial site is unknown, and then finding the oldest property > that he had owned will generally produce the "family" cemetery. Historic > atlases can give you the indication of approximately where the house existed > at the time of the atlas, and you can bet that the cemetery will be about > 250 ft. from the house near the crest of a little knoll in a grove of trees. > They are frequently marked by a remnant of a fence which has no readily > apparent reason for being there. If there are no tombstones, the burials > will frequently be witnessed by a native stone headstone and possibly native > stone footstone with the accompanying slight depression between that tends > to fill up with leaves. > > Lost family cemeteries do exist and there are many that will escape us; > but with some effort, there are many that can be found. In the course of > documenting some of the previously known cemeteries, we have discovered that > there are not just three or four burials in that little cemetery; but there > are numerous burials that have gone undetected previously. Case in point, > we have checked out two previously cataloged cemeteries, thought to be > family cemeteries, each containing seven known burials documented by > tombstones. Closer scrutiny of the burials and surrounding area revealed > that there were a large number burials marked by native stone that previous > listers had failed to find because there were no tombstones on those > burials. When checking land records we discovered that both had been church > cemeteries that had been abandoned. Even the County Poor Farm which may > have had active burials up to its closing in the mid 1950's barely escaped > destruction by a land developer approximately two years ago because > knowledge of the cemetery was not documented by the county and obscured by > subsequent landowners. There was only one tombstone on the Poor Farm > Cemetery, yet there were probably at least two hundred burials in a piece of > real estate that was approximately 220 ft. by 110 ft. > > Yes there are many lost family cemeteries, many of which we can still > find and many of which will be lost to us forever. Every year that goes by > without actively seeking and documenting these cemeteries is one more step > toward disappearance by neglect or destruction. How many will you find this > year? It's 2007. Do you know where your Great Grandparents are? > > > Sincerely yours, > > Wayne Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elaine O'Neill" <elaineoneill1948@gmail.com> > To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:42 AM > Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > > > > Thank you, Bill for all the wonderful information. I intend to file > > this for future reference. > > > > I have one question, if I may. Don't know if you'll have an answer, > > but I'll take that chance. > > > > What are the odds, in poor, rural areas in the last half of the 19th > > century, that persons were buried on family land...no gravestone, no > > record anywhere of a burial? I have on in particular I've been > > searching for in either Howell or Texas county. The cemetery books > > have been checked there is no listing anywhere for her. There are > > other members of her family that are equally elusive. I wonder if > > they were just buried "out back under the Maple tree" and then when > > the family moved on they are left behind and forgotten. > > This is the only scenario that makes any sense at this point. > > > > Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this sort of situation. > > > > Elaine O'. > > Hollister, MO > > On 7/3/07, kimbuc4@juno.com <kimbuc4@juno.com> wrote: > >> List members, > >> > >> For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning > >> the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > >> > >> I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new > >> members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wednesday, July 04, 2007 Dear Elaine, The scenario that you present is very possible. In fact, it happens frequently. In many of the cases, part of the burials in a small family plot were documented by tombstones and that little family burial site is so well hidden that common knowledge of it has disappeared long ago. In many cases, the landowners are reluctant to disclose the fact that a cemetery exists on the property out of fear that it will ruin the value of the property or place them in a situation in which they will have to spend on the cemetery or to maintain it. When I started actively seeking to locate the small family cemeteries of Callaway County, Missouri a little over five years ago, the historical society had a catalog of 223 cemeteries in the county. That catalog was compiled by two men working together for approximately five years in the early 1980's. Since that time another individual and myself have been adding to that catalog of known cemeteries and the total for the county as of today is 301 cemeteries and we have a list of approximately forty more cemeteries that we have yet to check out. When we started, there were a number of those added that were commonly known; but still not in the catalog; but now we are getting down to the ones that are increasingly more difficult to find, and to find reference to. About half of our leads still come in by word of mouth; but many are being discovered from references in probate records or an obituary indicating that an unlocated individual was buried in the "family" cemetery. It just takes patience and diligence seeking and following up on every lead to bring these lost cemeteries to light. Don't think that we win every one of them; because we don't; but we are still bringing in a number of newly found cemeteries every year. As long as they haven't been physically destroyed, they are possible to find. Old land records are still the best place to start when seeking the "family" cemetery. Land patents and historic atlases are the greatest help in locating those cemeteries. Just simply knowing where the properties owned by the family are located, selecting the oldest male member of the family whose burial site is unknown, and then finding the oldest property that he had owned will generally produce the "family" cemetery. Historic atlases can give you the indication of approximately where the house existed at the time of the atlas, and you can bet that the cemetery will be about 250 ft. from the house near the crest of a little knoll in a grove of trees. They are frequently marked by a remnant of a fence which has no readily apparent reason for being there. If there are no tombstones, the burials will frequently be witnessed by a native stone headstone and possibly native stone footstone with the accompanying slight depression between that tends to fill up with leaves. Lost family cemeteries do exist and there are many that will escape us; but with some effort, there are many that can be found. In the course of documenting some of the previously known cemeteries, we have discovered that there are not just three or four burials in that little cemetery; but there are numerous burials that have gone undetected previously. Case in point, we have checked out two previously cataloged cemeteries, thought to be family cemeteries, each containing seven known burials documented by tombstones. Closer scrutiny of the burials and surrounding area revealed that there were a large number burials marked by native stone that previous listers had failed to find because there were no tombstones on those burials. When checking land records we discovered that both had been church cemeteries that had been abandoned. Even the County Poor Farm which may have had active burials up to its closing in the mid 1950's barely escaped destruction by a land developer approximately two years ago because knowledge of the cemetery was not documented by the county and obscured by subsequent landowners. There was only one tombstone on the Poor Farm Cemetery, yet there were probably at least two hundred burials in a piece of real estate that was approximately 220 ft. by 110 ft. Yes there are many lost family cemeteries, many of which we can still find and many of which will be lost to us forever. Every year that goes by without actively seeking and documenting these cemeteries is one more step toward disappearance by neglect or destruction. How many will you find this year? It's 2007. Do you know where your Great Grandparents are? Sincerely yours, Wayne Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine O'Neill" <elaineoneill1948@gmail.com> To: <mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > Thank you, Bill for all the wonderful information. I intend to file > this for future reference. > > I have one question, if I may. Don't know if you'll have an answer, > but I'll take that chance. > > What are the odds, in poor, rural areas in the last half of the 19th > century, that persons were buried on family land...no gravestone, no > record anywhere of a burial? I have on in particular I've been > searching for in either Howell or Texas county. The cemetery books > have been checked there is no listing anywhere for her. There are > other members of her family that are equally elusive. I wonder if > they were just buried "out back under the Maple tree" and then when > the family moved on they are left behind and forgotten. > This is the only scenario that makes any sense at this point. > > Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this sort of situation. > > Elaine O'. > Hollister, MO > On 7/3/07, kimbuc4@juno.com <kimbuc4@juno.com> wrote: >> List members, >> >> For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning >> the lack of information on burials and tombstones. >> >> I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new >> members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Bill for all the wonderful information. I intend to file this for future reference. I have one question, if I may. Don't know if you'll have an answer, but I'll take that chance. What are the odds, in poor, rural areas in the last half of the 19th century, that persons were buried on family land...no gravestone, no record anywhere of a burial? I have on in particular I've been searching for in either Howell or Texas county. The cemetery books have been checked there is no listing anywhere for her. There are other members of her family that are equally elusive. I wonder if they were just buried "out back under the Maple tree" and then when the family moved on they are left behind and forgotten. This is the only scenario that makes any sense at this point. Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this sort of situation. Elaine O'. Hollister, MO On 7/3/07, kimbuc4@juno.com <kimbuc4@juno.com> wrote: > List members, > > For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning > the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > > I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new > members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones.

Illinois has Archives on line but not death certificates. ----- Original Message ----- From: Audrey<mailto:audpen@yhti.net> To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:34 PM Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Missouri death certificates 1910-1934 & 1945-1956 I have found several death certificates that list people that are buried in cemeteries that do not have their names listed in the cemetery books. Do you suppose the people that surveyed these cemeteries would be interested in adding those names to their book? Also does any other states offer free death certificates like Missouri. I would be interested in having the names of those states. -----Original Message----- From: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com<mailto:gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> [mailto:gc-gateway@rootsweb.com] Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 10:49 AM To: MO-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [MO-CEMETERIES] Missouri death certificates 1910-1934 & 1945-1956 This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kq1969 Surnames: Classification: death Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/topics.cemetery.us.mo/1781/mb.ashx<http://boards.rootsweb.com/topics.cemetery.us.mo/1781/mb.ashx> Message Board Post: The Missouri Secretary of State has posted online the Missouri Death Certificates for the years 1910-1934 and 1945-1956. The years between 1934 and 1945 are suppose to be posted, later this year. 1957 will be available, early next year. No date has been posted on the site for these years to be available. Some late 1944 death certificates that were not filed until 1945 are, also, available. They can be downloaded and printed out from this location: http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/deathcertificates<http://www.sosmo.gov/archives/resources/deathcertificates> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What a good take on cemeteries and tombstones. It is too bad that this is so true. Thank you for a wonderful article. Beverly -----Original Message----- >From: kimbuc4@juno.com >Sent: Jul 3, 2007 6:19 PM >To: mo-cemeteries@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [MO-CEMETERIES] MO-CEMETERIES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 111 > >List members, > >For the past several days there have been a number of messages concerning >the lack of information on burials and tombstones. > >I have mentioned this in the past but apparently there are many new >members. Some basic information about cemeteries, concerns tombstones. > >Only about 60 -70 percent of burials are covered by a tombstone!. Why? >They cost a pile of money and years ago many families couldn't afford >them. I believe you will find many homemade tombstones, particularly in >rural cemeteries. Then here in St. Louis you will find cemeteries where >tombstones have been removed because they were damaged, some were toppled >over and left on the ground and eventually covered over by dirt. I have >relatives who were buried in one cemetery where the cemetery removed the >stones because the family hadn't paid the Endowed/Perpetual Care. The >there are the vandal damaged cemeteries, this is when many will find that >it is the family's responsibility to either repair, replace or abandon >the tombstone to the landfill. > >Then there are those instances where there is a MEMORIAL Stone, there is >no burial. At Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery there are several of >these in areas where no burials can be made due to the ground conditions, >rock. Every veteran is authorized a tombstone, even those men and women >lost at sea, or MIA and POW. For the lost grandfather, chances are he is >buried right next to his wife and won't be found unless you open the >grave, why not install the double headstone to at least acknowledge his >existence? Of course there are cemeteries where this isn't always the >case. St. Rose in St. Rose Illinois is an example. They follow the rule >that you are buried as you die, in sequence, spouses will be found >separated in this cemetery. > >When we removed the burials at Washington Park Cemetery, the tombstones >were relocated to the new cemetery, if they weren't damaged, but they >were not reset in an upright position, that cost too much money and the >relocation effort was already costly, so the new cemetery laid the stone >on the ground over the grave. These mass relocations were done at >basically two cemeteries in the St. Louis area, both religious >affiliated. The old tombstones were destroyed and dumped into landfills. >There were some rather expensive tombstones destroyed because they had >chips along the edges, some of these had photo images that were also >destroyed. This could start another thread, but let me say at this point >there are no laws to cover tombstones. There are cemetery rules, i.e. if >damaged they can removed and destroyed. Should a VA stone be place in a >non-VA cemetery the family will frequently pay the installation fee, if >this stone is later destroyed in this non-VA cemetery the VA is to be >called and they will either pick up the stone or tell the cemetery to >destroy it, they will not normally provide a replacement stone. But at >the VA cemetery they will install a new stone at government expense. > >You must also remember that tombstones frequently contain wrong >information. Frequently this is the only place you have for information >on the persons birth, however, treat it with some suspicion until you >find some information closer to his birth. The best rule of thumb is to >use the information closest to the event. For example, Death Certificates >are not always correct when it comes to the Date of Birth, nor where the >person or their parents were born. I have one family with 8 children. The >father is listed a JOHN HERMAN, HERMAN JOHN, JOHN H., H. JOHN and HERMAN >HENRY then HENRY HERMAN. His name was found to be JOHN HERMAN HENRY, >Germans used all names, Given, Baptismal, Confirmation and then finally >Surname. Naturally they can all be found misspelled, because the person >providing the information couldn't read or write. > >My method of madness is: >Tombstone >Obit >Death Certificate >Wedding License, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil >and one Religious. >Baptismal Record >Birth Record, remember in Europe there may be two of these one Civil and >one Religious. > >Lest I forget Middle names are frequently found on Baptismal Records that >even the parents weren't aware of. If the parents didn't provide the name >of a saint the priest often used Mary for girls and Joseph for the boys. > >Use hard evidence, but remember that paper records were frequently >destroyed by fire, it almost seems that many of the court houses had >fires in 1890. Then the registration of births wasn't really required in >Missouri until the late 1900 decade, if memory serves me right about >1907. > >Another bit of information you might keep in the back of your mind. In >Missouri, it is the responsibility of the Funeral Director to fill out >the Death Certificate. He does this by talking with the family and >hospital. The Doctor is the one that signs the Death Certificate. Then >again another problem. can enter here. My brother-in-law died at 11:00 >PM. on a given date, but the on duty doctor didn't pronounce him dead >unto 3:00 am the next day, guess what date is on his death certificate. I >have a neighbor who was born in Illinois, the midwife who delivered him >didn't like Illinois so she registered his birth in St. Louis County, >Missouri. > >You will find in St. Louis several births recorded as: >DePaul Hospital, St. Louis, City, Missouri and DePaul Hospital, >Bridgeton, St. Louis County, Missouri. Both are correct the hospital >moved. >St. Luke's Hospital, St. John's Mercy and The Christian Hospitals have >all relocated to the county area. Many people will say they were born in >St. Louis, at St. Mary's Hospital, when they were really born in St. >Louis County. > >This may sound picky, but it is a fact. > >Obituaries are another source of data, however, they are not always >correct, they aren't free and yes I know some of you will say the funeral >home pays for them. I ask you who pays the funeral home? Funeral Homes >are a business and this is a subject for another time. > >It seems that many on this list ask about where a particular cemetery is >located since they can't find it. GNIS is out there and doesn't contain a >listing of all the cemeteries and darn few associated with churches. If >you can't find the cemetery, look for the church. In the areas you are >searching you will frequently find that the church was built in the >middle of the churches cemetery, they also keep the records. In Linn >Missouri St. George Cemetery was opened a few years back, not all the >bodies were moved to the new cemetery the tombstones were and are now >located in the back part of the new cemetery, the bodies are under the >parking lot behind the church. > >Hey guys cemeteries are interesting, historical treasurers and should be >taken care of forever. In the olden days people would have family picnics >in them. > >Bill > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-CEMETERIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message