Thank you to both, Judy and Mary, for your suggestions on my search for the birth of David Smith's 5 children born in Minnesota. Family lore always said these children were born in White Bear Lake. When I first started to check on these children I put White Bear Lake into Google. Google states WBL is in Ramsey County "with a small portion in Washington County. According to the 1870 census, David, his wife and 3 children are living in Marine, Washington County. I first assumed this was Marine on St. Croix. In checking again the 1870 census, which is the only census this family was in Minnesota, it states the post office is in Marine Mills. Again, according to the 1870 census, David Smith is working for the railroad. I'm now wondering if he and the family were living in a railroad camp near the lake and that's why some members of the family stated they were born in White Bear Lake. As years pass words get changed and they might have said they were born on or near WBL, not referring to the town but referring to the Lake it's self. I did check with the MN Historical Society and there is no listing on their early birth records for any of the Smith children born in MN. The Smith family left MN in late 1875 or early '76, stayed there for approximately 3 years and by the 1880 Federal Census was in Washington State. Again, thank you for all your suggestions. I will also do some checking in Washington County. Also see what I can learn about the railroad coming through that area. Pat Crimmel WA state

Can anyone help Linda? Please respond directly to her, as she may not be subscribed to our list. Mary Listmom +++++++ 2/28/2008 Linda Retterath <[email protected]> I am looking for Sandra and John Peterson children of Clara Christina (Sandstrom) Peterson and her husband Leon W. Peterson. Sandra and John's grandfather, John (Jan) Magnus Sandstrom, was my grandfather's brother. Their grandparents lived in Little Falls MN and John Sandstrom died in 1923 so they problably didn't know him. I would like to ask them questions about their family. The obit for their grandfather listed St. Paul as their home.

Pat Crimmel wrote: > I am looking for birth information on 5 Smith children born between 1867 > and 1874. David Smith and his wife Prothesa Pettman Smith traveled from > England arriving in White Bear Lake between late 1866 and early 1867. > While living in or around White Bear they had five children. I'm looking > for birth information on these children. I'm new to this site and wonder > if someone can tell me where to start looking. I have noticed that part > of White Bear is in Washington County. I do not know which county this > family was living in at the time of the birth of the children. > The first MN law requiring the civil recording of birth info was passed in 1870. It was done at the lowest level of government -- villages and townships. When state-wide recording became mandatory in 1911, with a copy to be sent to the State Dept of Health, adherence was much better. Of course, religious organizations kept their own records even earlier, as did some of the governmental organizations. So -- there are a couple of places to check. First glean what you can from the federal and state census records for that area. You have at least 1870, 1875, 1880, 1885, 1895, 1900, 1905, 1910, 1920 and 1930, assuming that the children lived that long. Armed with the name of the governmental body in which they lived, you'll be able to search for White Bear township or White Bear village or ??? to see if records still exist. Early records for Ramsey county have been microfilmed by the Gen. Soc. of Utah, and are available through the Family History Libraries. Also, start hunting for the church they attended and search for baptismal records. Head for the MN HIstorical Society site <www.mnhs.org/>, where there is a free index to birth and death records. Both of these are from the State Department of Health, so you find a birth record from the 1860s and 1870s there, but sometimes birth information appears on death records and if they stayed in the state and had children, you may be able to get that info too. There is also a historical society in White Bear, link to historical organizations through the MHS site. They might be able to help you out as well. Lots of places to look! Mary Bakeman Listmom, Ramsey MnGenWeb Park Genealogical Books http://www.parkbooks.com/ > Thank you > Pat Crimmel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am looking for birth information on 5 Smith children born between 1867 and 1874. David Smith and his wife Prothesa Pettman Smith traveled from England arriving in White Bear Lake between late 1866 and early 1867. While living in or around White Bear they had five children. I'm looking for birth information on these children. I'm new to this site and wonder if someone can tell me where to start looking. I have noticed that part of White Bear is in Washington County. I do not know which county this family was living in at the time of the birth of the children. Thank you Pat Crimmel

Can anyone help? Note that she may not be a subscriber to this list, and include her in your response. Mary Listmom +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 22/02/2008 Lucie Viau-St-André [email protected] Subject: St-André(St-Andrew) Louis & Julie(Julia) Gervais I'm looking for information on Louis St-André also known as Louis St-Andrew. He got married with Julie Gervais also known as Julia Gervais in 1874 (St-Paul Mn.). Julia Gervais (born 1852) was daughter of Alphonse Gervais & Angelique Jobin . (Alphonse & Angelique got married 7/06/1847 St-Paul Mn) Louis St-André & Julia Gervais got 2 children : Louis Victor 1875, julia 1879 I'm interested in finding when and where Louis St-André was born and who were his father and mother

William J. Deurr, born 1920, died 2006, married 1942 in St. Paul, moved to Riverside where he died. His son, William J. Deurr died in 1986. He has two more sons probably living. Would like to exchange information on the Deurr family. Floreda

I've "rescued" an old photograph of Lucy TUCKER which was taken at the Gilmartin Studio in St. Paul, Minnesota. The photograph appears to have been taken in the 1870's or 1880's with Lucy likely about 5 years old at the time it was taken. I am hoping to locate someone from Lucy's family so that this precious old family photograph can be returned to the care of family. If you are a member of this family, or you know someone who might be, please contact me. Thanks, Shelley

Can anyone help Nancy? Please respond directly to her -- "LeClaire, Nancy" <[email protected]> Mary List mom I'm looking for several surnames from Ramsey County from way back when. Ek Erickson (Ed, wife Johanna, kids Edwin, Walter, Esther) Jensen (Thomas & Anna) Moberg Thanks in advance for any assistance +++++ Nancy added the following information, which narrows the time a little, though it appears that even a 1900 census search might help! >Ed Erickson arrived from Sweden to St. Paul about 1881. I'm not sure >about the Thomas & Anna Jensen with daughter Johanna. Ed married >Johanna in 1887 by a minister named George H. Way. Not sure what >church. Also would like to know exact birthdates of their oldest 2 >children (Edwin & Walter) so I can locate their death certificates. >They are a bit of a mystery. > >The Moberg's and Ek's are secondary for research purposes as the info on >them is easier to find. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mary Bakeman [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:25 PM >To: LeClaire, Nancy >Subject: Re: Hello! > >Are we talking the 1850s or the 1950s? > >What part of Ramsey county? > >Mary

Forwarded to me, author unknown but too good not to pass along. It is New Year's Eve, 1852 and John Smith sits at his desk by candlelight. He dips his quill pen in ink and begins to writes his New Year's resolutions: ********************************** 1. No man is truly well-educated unless he learns to spell his name at least three different ways within the same document. I resolve to give the appearance of being extremely well-educated in the coming year. 2. I resolve to see to it that all of my children will have the same names that my ancestors have used for six generations in a row. 3. My age is no one's business but my own. I hereby resolve to never list the same age or birth year twice on any document. 4. I resolve to have each of my children baptized in a different church -- either in a different faith or in a different parish. Every third child will not be baptized at all, or will be baptized by an itinerant minister who keeps no records. 5. I resolve to move to a new town, new county, or new state at least once every 10 years -- just before those pesky enumerators come around asking silly questions. 6. I will make every attempt to reside in counties and towns where no vital records are maintained or where the courthouse burns down every few years. 7. I resolve to join an obscure religious cult that does not believe in record keeping or in participating in military service. 8. When the tax collector comes to my door, I'll loan him my pen, which has been dipped in rapidly fading blue ink. 9. I resolve that if my beloved wife Mary should die, I will marry another Mary. 10. I resolve not to make a will. Who needs to spend money on a lawyer. 11. I resolve to not clutter up the good farm pasture with headstones, that will just get broken or fade with time anyway. 12. I resolve to protect my family and friends privacy, by giving false names and places for events. 13. I resolve to never give the correct accounts of misdeeds in the family, so when Uncle Lem shot that fellow and was tried for murder, my children will be told he stole a cow. 14. I resolve to never trim the family cemetery of brush and tangle weed, to keep out any one doing that silly Genealogical work. 15. I resolve to always alternate my child's and wife's first and middle names when the census taker comes around, just to give him practice with his spelling. 16. I resolve to come from Ireland (where there are no records, or, if there are, they can only be examined by visiting the exact village and, pleading with the local clergy, (who is hostile to anyone not of his belief, which of course you are) and/or handing over a fee equal to or exceeding your yearly income for one hour's research which may not find anything.) 17. I resolve that not only shall I NOT die in my country of birth, nor shall my children (yea verily) unto the sixth generation. 18. I resolve that I shall call my children by odd names which the enumerator shall spell incorrectly. 19. I resolve that I shall be absent on the night of the census. 20. I resolve that if unable to be absent on census night I shall endeavor to be enumerated twice. 21. I resolve that when I die my children/wife are instructed to give the wrong details for my death certificate. 22. I resolve that I and most of my family shall die suddenly just before death certifications started to be used, in a parish where easy access to the records ceased the previous year. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Can anyone help? Please answer her directly, as she may not be subscribed to our list. Mary Listmom >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Ramsey County Query > >12/21/2007 Joanie Pace <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] > >I am looking for information on Marian Miller who lived at 129 >Robert St.,St Paul City,Ramsey County,Minnesota. >I have found her in the 1930 census in St Paul. She was born in 1886 >in Colorado. I think her parents were O'Connor. >This is all I have. Would appreciate anything that can be found. >Thank you, >Joanie Pace

In a message dated 12/14/2007 12:28:20 P.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I want to thank you for your response. Could you give me the web site? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX Hi Bill, Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year. Minnesota Historical Society is _www.mnhs.org_ (http://www.mnhs.org) Annie in Minnesota **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Al: I want to thank you for your response. Could you give me the web site? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- [email protected] wrote: > Sorry, I don't come that far forward - but did you > try the statewide index that the historical society > has on line? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Forshay <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 8:44 pm > Subject: Re: [MNRAMSEY] Early Marriages > > > > Al: > > Could you look up a marriage for me in Ramsey > Co., > St Paul? I'm looking for the marriage of my grand > parents. > > Richard L.J. BIERSCHENK and Ella NELSON married > 30 > Mar 1912 in St Paul. Not sure which church. Richard > was Catholic and Ella was Lutheran. > > Any help on this is greatly appreciated. > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --- [email protected] wrote: > > > > > The recording of marriages in Minnesota started > > immediately. They were supposed to be recorded in > > the county that the woman lived in.? What names > are > > you looking for I can look through what I have for > > Ramsey County public records.? I do know there is > a > > gap in those records and I think it is in the time > > period you are referring to. A clerk supposedly > took > > records home to do the recording and it was never > > done and therecords never returned (that is a not > in > > the records). > > > > > > > > AL > > > Searching: FORSHAY (Forshee, > Foshay)(NY,NJ,OH,WI,MI,France,Canada)- > WILD,DREXLER,FLEISCHMAN(N),PAA (WI,Czech Republic) - > BIERSCHENK, > NELSON/(NILSSON)(MN,NY,Varberg,Sweden). > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of > the message > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL > Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > Searching: FORSHAY (Forshee, Foshay)(NY,NJ,OH,WI,MI,France,Canada)- WILD,DREXLER,FLEISCHMAN(N),PAA (WI,Czech Republic) - BIERSCHENK, NELSON/(NILSSON)(MN,NY,Varberg,Sweden). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Sorry, I don't come that far forward - but did you try the statewide index that the historical society has on line? -----Original Message----- From: Bill Forshay <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 8:44 pm Subject: Re: [MNRAMSEY] Early Marriages Al: Could you look up a marriage for me in Ramsey Co., St Paul? I'm looking for the marriage of my grand parents. Richard L.J. BIERSCHENK and Ella NELSON married 30 Mar 1912 in St Paul. Not sure which church. Richard was Catholic and Ella was Lutheran. Any help on this is greatly appreciated. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- [email protected] wrote: > > The recording of marriages in Minnesota started > immediately. They were supposed to be recorded in > the county that the woman lived in.? What names are > you looking for I can look through what I have for > Ramsey County public records.? I do know there is a > gap in those records and I think it is in the time > period you are referring to. A clerk supposedly took > records home to do the recording and it was never > done and therecords never returned (that is a not in > the records). > > > > AL Searching: FORSHAY (Forshee, Foshay)(NY,NJ,OH,WI,MI,France,Canada)- WILD,DREXLER,FLEISCHMAN(N),PAA (WI,Czech Republic) - BIERSCHENK, NELSON/(NILSSON)(MN,NY,Varberg,Sweden). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Al The marriage I am looking for was for Chauncey/Chauncy/C.E. Hastings to Emeline Brown. I know they had a child born in 1860 and from sketchy family information they would have been married sometime between 1853 and 1860. That is all the information I have at this point. Emeline possibly had a short previous marriage so her name on any record may not have been Brown but I have no knowledge of what that name would be. This is a real stretch, based on information written in the late 1800's by Emeline's nephew and I have no idea if it has merit. ANY help would be appreciated. Jo Hogle In a message dated 12/6/2007 10:33:22 A.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The recording of marriages in Minnesota started immediately. They were supposed to be recorded in the county that the woman lived in.? What names are you looking for I can look through what I have for Ramsey County public records.? I do know there is a gap in those records and I think it is in the time period you are referring to. A clerk supposedly took records home to do the recording and it was never done and therecords never returned (that is a not in the records). **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Al: Could you look up a marriage for me in Ramsey Co., St Paul? I'm looking for the marriage of my grand parents. Richard L.J. BIERSCHENK and Ella NELSON married 30 Mar 1912 in St Paul. Not sure which church. Richard was Catholic and Ella was Lutheran. Any help on this is greatly appreciated. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- [email protected] wrote: > > The recording of marriages in Minnesota started > immediately. They were supposed to be recorded in > the county that the woman lived in.? What names are > you looking for I can look through what I have for > Ramsey County public records.? I do know there is a > gap in those records and I think it is in the time > period you are referring to. A clerk supposedly took > records home to do the recording and it was never > done and therecords never returned (that is a not in > the records). > > > > AL Searching: FORSHAY (Forshee, Foshay)(NY,NJ,OH,WI,MI,France,Canada)- WILD,DREXLER,FLEISCHMAN(N),PAA (WI,Czech Republic) - BIERSCHENK, NELSON/(NILSSON)(MN,NY,Varberg,Sweden). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

The first state law requiring the recording of marriages (as well as births and deaths) was passed in 1870. Since there were no official requirements before that, some were recorded and some were not. Churches, as private institutions, could keep whatever records they wanted to keep, without concern for government reporting. Since the governmental records are not complete, you need a Plan B. One way to verify a religious record is to expand the search into other records in the church: do the names of the children baptised there match other sources? did they participate in church committees? are there financial records which would point to them and match city directory listings for occupations or address, etc? Did they live long enough to make it to one of the censuses that asks for age at first marriage or number of years married or similar data? Not all denominations keep the same records, but you probably get the drift -- where are the possible tracks left by the couple and do they match up with the tracks they left on the census, city directories, etc. It's wonderful to find a church record of a marriage, especially that predates the governmental requirement. Lots of us have trouble figuring out where to find the church record books! Mary At 01:30 PM 12/6/2007, you wrote: >I just recently went through a "duh" moment. Next step was to order two >microfilms on loan from Minnesota Historical Society (MHS) and viewed them >at my local library. Microfilm Call #M142, Reels 1 and 2, had the Records >of the Trinity Lutheran Church, St. Paul, MN, 1855-1983, which included >baptisms, marriages, confirmations and burials. > >I found what appears to be my great-great grandmother's marriage to her >second husband on 9 May 1858. > >Minnesota Genealogical Journal "Ramsey County Marriages - 17 Feb 1855 - 27 >Nov 1862" did not list the marriages that I found in the Trinity Lutheran >Church microfilms from MHS. > >I am in the process now of trying to verify the info I found in the church >records, i.e., is "Chr. Wme. (?) Meinhard" the same person as Wilhelmine >Meinhardt and is "Christ. Scherer" the same person as my Christian Scherer. >I am hoping to find a county marriage record with more info. Several years >ago I visited MHS and found marriage record for Wilhelmine's son Theodore >Meinhardt. I didn't even think to look for his mother at the time! Duh to >me, too! Been there, done that. Good luck in your search! > >Helen Kesinger Mary Bakeman [email protected] Park Genealogical Books http://www.parkbooks.com

I just recently went through a "duh" moment. Next step was to order two microfilms on loan from Minnesota Historical Society (MHS) and viewed them at my local library. Microfilm Call #M142, Reels 1 and 2, had the Records of the Trinity Lutheran Church, St. Paul, MN, 1855-1983, which included baptisms, marriages, confirmations and burials. I found what appears to be my great-great grandmother's marriage to her second husband on 9 May 1858. Minnesota Genealogical Journal "Ramsey County Marriages - 17 Feb 1855 - 27 Nov 1862" did not list the marriages that I found in the Trinity Lutheran Church microfilms from MHS. I am in the process now of trying to verify the info I found in the church records, i.e., is "Chr. Wme. (?) Meinhard" the same person as Wilhelmine Meinhardt and is "Christ. Scherer" the same person as my Christian Scherer. I am hoping to find a county marriage record with more info. Several years ago I visited MHS and found marriage record for Wilhelmine's son Theodore Meinhardt. I didn't even think to look for his mother at the time! Duh to me, too! Been there, done that. Good luck in your search! Helen Kesinger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Bakeman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [MNRAMSEY] Early Marriages > At 08:06 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote: >>I just had a "DUH" moment regarding my great great grandparents, and I >>believe they MAY have been married in St Paul (after years of >>searching in New >>York and Pennsylvania). >> >>Are there any marriage records available for St Paul between 1855 and >>1860? >>I know they were not recorded at the state level, but I am aware that >>towns >>in Hennepin County recorded them that early so I am hoping that is also >>true >>of Ramsey County. >> > > And it is -- they have been microfilmed and are available through the > FHLs. They've also been extracted and published in the MN > Genealogical Journal. > > IN addition, there are church records as well that may not have been > recorded at the County -- e.g., the Cathedral has records pre-dating > the Territory. These would be at the Archives for the denomination > you're tracing. > > Mary > > > >>Thanks for an clarification and direction as to where to find them if >>they >>may exist. >> >>Jo Hogle >> >> >> >> >>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's >>hottest >>products. >>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Mary Bakeman > [email protected] > Park Genealogical Books > http://www.parkbooks.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At 08:06 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote: >I just had a "DUH" moment regarding my great great grandparents, and I >believe they MAY have been married in St Paul (after years of >searching in New >York and Pennsylvania). > >Are there any marriage records available for St Paul between 1855 and 1860? >I know they were not recorded at the state level, but I am aware that towns >in Hennepin County recorded them that early so I am hoping that is also true >of Ramsey County. > And it is -- they have been microfilmed and are available through the FHLs. They've also been extracted and published in the MN Genealogical Journal. IN addition, there are church records as well that may not have been recorded at the County -- e.g., the Cathedral has records pre-dating the Territory. These would be at the Archives for the denomination you're tracing. Mary >Thanks for an clarification and direction as to where to find them if they >may exist. > >Jo Hogle > > > > >**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest >products. >(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Mary Bakeman [email protected] Park Genealogical Books http://www.parkbooks.com

The recording of marriages in Minnesota started immediately. They were supposed to be recorded in the county that the woman lived in.? What names are you looking for I can look through what I have for Ramsey County public records.? I do know there is a gap in those records and I think it is in the time period you are referring to. A clerk supposedly took records home to do the recording and it was never done and therecords never returned (that is a not in the records). AL -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 8:06 am Subject: [MNRAMSEY] Early Marriages I just had a "DUH" moment regarding my great great grandparents, and I believe they MAY have been married in St Paul (after years of searching in New York and Pennsylvania). Are there any marriage records available for St Paul between 1855 and 1860? I know they were not recorded at the state level, but I am aware that towns in Hennepin County recorded them that early so I am hoping that is also true of Ramsey County. Thanks for an clarification and direction as to where to find them if they may exist. Jo Hogle **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003

I just had a "DUH" moment regarding my great great grandparents, and I believe they MAY have been married in St Paul (after years of searching in New York and Pennsylvania). Are there any marriage records available for St Paul between 1855 and 1860? I know they were not recorded at the state level, but I am aware that towns in Hennepin County recorded them that early so I am hoping that is also true of Ramsey County. Thanks for an clarification and direction as to where to find them if they may exist. Jo Hogle **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)