On Mar 19, 2015, at 19:55, Karen De Groote via wrote: > The leadership team will begin reviewing their counties at the end of > this 10 day period for the basic requirements ... Okay - so that period is up! I have a question about the logo rules. > 8. All county sites must provide a link to the state site. ... > Here is the page with our official logo > and the acceptable banner that can be used on other pages that are NOT > the index page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm. > This is an area that we have problems with in this project. Some are > using the old logo and some are using the the new BANNER on the index > page for a logo rather than the official logo. ... So by "old logo" you are referring to the Pennau banner with Minnesota spelled out, which is not in compliance with USGenWeb rules for state logos. By "new BANNER", you are referring to the re-formatted Pennau banner on the above page, also not suitable as a logo. Since the Kittleson banner on the Logo Sets page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/MNGenWeb%20Logo%20Sets.html incorporates the official logo and was not specifically forbidden and the use of a logo is *optional*, I have chosen to replace the old Pennau logo with the exact same-size Kittleson banner, and still linking it to the MNGenWeb page. So I'm looking for affirmation that what I have here is acceptable: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mncrowwi/ It looks swell! Thanks. John Van Essen, Crow Wing county

Great question John. When we all voted for the official logo, that became the official logo. Banners are just that, banners. Now there is no problem with decorating with banners, even on the index page but our official logo needs to be there as well. Kermit reworked the old Pennau banner to be in compliance with the name so we can use itd. It does not contain the official logo. Keith chose to add a banner to the logos page that DOES incorporate the official logo, however we did not vote to have a banner as an official logo so it is still a banner not a logo. I hope that makes sense and I imagine Shirley and Tim will explain maybe a bit better. Thanks for the question. Karen ASC MNGenWeb On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:19 AM, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mar 19, 2015, at 19:55, Karen De Groote via wrote: > >> The leadership team will begin reviewing their counties at the end of >> this 10 day period for the basic requirements ... > > Okay - so that period is up! I have a question about the logo rules. > >> 8. All county sites must provide a link to the state site. ... >> Here is the page with our official logo >> and the acceptable banner that can be used on other pages that are NOT >> the index page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm. >> This is an area that we have problems with in this project. Some are >> using the old logo and some are using the the new BANNER on the index >> page for a logo rather than the official logo. ... > > So by "old logo" you are referring to the Pennau banner with Minnesota > spelled out, which is not in compliance with USGenWeb rules for state > logos. By "new BANNER", you are referring to the re-formatted Pennau > banner on the above page, also not suitable as a logo. > > Since the Kittleson banner on the Logo Sets page: > > http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/MNGenWeb%20Logo%20Sets.html > > incorporates the official logo and was not specifically forbidden > and the use of a logo is *optional*, I have chosen to replace the > old Pennau logo with the exact same-size Kittleson banner, and still > linking it to the MNGenWeb page. > > So I'm looking for affirmation that what I have here is acceptable: > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mncrowwi/ > > It looks swell! > > Thanks. > > John Van Essen, Crow Wing county > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, In your original email of March 19, item #8 implied that the use of a logo was optional - "If you use a logo ...". So now you are saying the official logo *must* be on the index page - "our official logo needs to be there as well". Or does that apply only if there's a banner? It seems ambiguous. And where is this requirement regarding the state logo to be found? It's not on the USGenWeb Guidelines page, and as far as I know, MNGenWeb has no Bylaws, so I'm wondering who is making these rules. Anyway, I left the banner as is and added a logo in the About section where I explained what MNGenWeb is. Seems appropriate there. :) John On Mar 30, 2015, at 07:55, Karen De Groote wrote: > Great question John. When we all voted for the official logo, that > became the official logo. Banners are just that, banners. Now there > is no problem with decorating with banners, even on the index page but > our official logo needs to be there as well. Kermit reworked the old > Pennau banner to be in compliance with the name so we can use itd. It > does not contain the official logo. Keith chose to add a banner to > the logos page that DOES incorporate the official logo, however we did > not vote to have a banner as an official logo so it is still a banner > not a logo. > > I hope that makes sense and I imagine Shirley and Tim will explain > maybe a bit better. Thanks for the question. > Karen > ASC MNGenWeb > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:19 AM, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Mar 19, 2015, at 19:55, Karen De Groote via wrote: >> >>> The leadership team will begin reviewing their counties at the end of >>> this 10 day period for the basic requirements ... >> >> Okay - so that period is up! I have a question about the logo rules. >> >>> 8. All county sites must provide a link to the state site. ... >>> Here is the page with our official logo >>> and the acceptable banner that can be used on other pages that are NOT >>> the index page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm. >>> This is an area that we have problems with in this project. Some are >>> using the old logo and some are using the the new BANNER on the index >>> page for a logo rather than the official logo. ... >> >> So by "old logo" you are referring to the Pennau banner with Minnesota >> spelled out, which is not in compliance with USGenWeb rules for state >> logos. By "new BANNER", you are referring to the re-formatted Pennau >> banner on the above page, also not suitable as a logo. >> >> Since the Kittleson banner on the Logo Sets page: >> >> http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/MNGenWeb%20Logo%20Sets.html >> >> incorporates the official logo and was not specifically forbidden >> and the use of a logo is *optional*, I have chosen to replace the >> old Pennau logo with the exact same-size Kittleson banner, and still >> linking it to the MNGenWeb page. >> >> So I'm looking for affirmation that what I have here is acceptable: >> >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mncrowwi/ >> >> It looks swell! >> >> Thanks. >> >> John Van Essen, Crow Wing county

Another good question John, let me clarify. There are three aspects to this situation. 1. USGenWeb requirements state we must all have a link to the state project on our index pages. 2. We voted in an official MNGenWeb logo, hence IF you use a logo, it must be the official one. We made that rule as a collective. You cannot link the banner to the state pages on the index page as that turns it in to the logo. 3. Some people use a text link to the state pages which is fine under current rules. Can you use a text link and then the banner solely for decoration? I don't think so. The banner that matches the official logo contains the part of the official logo which would create a misuse of the official logo itself on the index page but I will leave it to the SCs to comment on using a banner that was not voted on when we voted on the logo, as decoration in absence of a logo and a simple text link to the state. Using a banner instead of the official logo on our pages confuses our visitors and makes the branding of our project more difficult. I think after all the work that was done and the voting everyone partook in that we would all be proud of our official logo and use it. I hope that clears up the confusion and not makes the waters any more muddy. Karen ASC MNGenWeb On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:12 AM, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: > Karen, > > In your original email of March 19, item #8 implied that the use of a > logo was optional - "If you use a logo ...". > > So now you are saying the official logo *must* be on the index page - > "our official logo needs to be there as well". Or does that apply > only if there's a banner? It seems ambiguous. > > And where is this requirement regarding the state logo to be found? > It's not on the USGenWeb Guidelines page, and as far as I know, > MNGenWeb has no Bylaws, so I'm wondering who is making these rules. > > Anyway, I left the banner as is and added a logo in the About section > where I explained what MNGenWeb is. Seems appropriate there. :) > > John > > > On Mar 30, 2015, at 07:55, Karen De Groote wrote: > >> Great question John. When we all voted for the official logo, that >> became the official logo. Banners are just that, banners. Now there >> is no problem with decorating with banners, even on the index page but >> our official logo needs to be there as well. Kermit reworked the old >> Pennau banner to be in compliance with the name so we can use itd. It >> does not contain the official logo. Keith chose to add a banner to >> the logos page that DOES incorporate the official logo, however we did >> not vote to have a banner as an official logo so it is still a banner >> not a logo. >> >> I hope that makes sense and I imagine Shirley and Tim will explain >> maybe a bit better. Thanks for the question. >> Karen >> ASC MNGenWeb >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:19 AM, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 19:55, Karen De Groote via wrote: >>> >>>> The leadership team will begin reviewing their counties at the end of >>>> this 10 day period for the basic requirements ... >>> >>> Okay - so that period is up! I have a question about the logo rules. >>> >>>> 8. All county sites must provide a link to the state site. ... >>>> Here is the page with our official logo >>>> and the acceptable banner that can be used on other pages that are NOT >>>> the index page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm. >>>> This is an area that we have problems with in this project. Some are >>>> using the old logo and some are using the the new BANNER on the index >>>> page for a logo rather than the official logo. ... >>> >>> So by "old logo" you are referring to the Pennau banner with Minnesota >>> spelled out, which is not in compliance with USGenWeb rules for state >>> logos. By "new BANNER", you are referring to the re-formatted Pennau >>> banner on the above page, also not suitable as a logo. >>> >>> Since the Kittleson banner on the Logo Sets page: >>> >>> http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/MNGenWeb%20Logo%20Sets.html >>> >>> incorporates the official logo and was not specifically forbidden >>> and the use of a logo is *optional*, I have chosen to replace the >>> old Pennau logo with the exact same-size Kittleson banner, and still >>> linking it to the MNGenWeb page. >>> >>> So I'm looking for affirmation that what I have here is acceptable: >>> >>> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mncrowwi/ >>> >>> It looks swell! >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> John Van Essen, Crow Wing county > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen - your response does clarify. To summarize: * Linking an image to the MNGenWeb page is *forbidden* unless that image is an officially approved logo. * Since no banner has an officially approved logo in it, no banner can be linked to the MNGenWeb page. But that's the whole point of having a banner - something prominent to point to the next level up in this case and link to it. Many CCs used the old Pennau banner in that way. * USGenWeb guidelines state: "The USGenWeb Project logo must not be altered in any way (size, colors, etc.) Inclusion of the logo in a banner is not considered to be an alteration." The same rule applies to the state logos, one would presume. * Since Keith's banners have elements of the logo in it without having a complete logo image as a part of it, they contain an impermissibly altered logo. Therefore, it is forbidden to use those banners anywhere within the MnGenWeb family of websites. So it appears to me that the use of a banner that includes a whole logo is permitted and it can be linked to the MNGenWeb page. It seems to me that the solution is for Keith (if he would be so kind) to create a new banner that includes a complete logo, say on the left edge, with artistic elements in the rest of the banner. There will be plenty of blank canvas since all the text will be gone. I for one would like to see a loon and a pink lady's slipper in there somewhere. :) John P.S. On the logos page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm Text should be added to the reformatted Pennau logo section stating that it is forbidden to link the image to the MnGenWeb page. On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:35, Karen De Groote via wrote: > Another good question John, let me clarify. There are three aspects > to this situation. > 1. USGenWeb requirements state we must all have a link to the state > project on our index pages. > 2. We voted in an official MNGenWeb logo, hence IF you use a logo, it > must be the official one. We made that rule as a collective. You > cannot link the banner to the state pages on the index page as that > turns it in to the logo. > 3. Some people use a text link to the state pages which is fine under > current rules. Can you use a text link and then the banner solely for > decoration? I don't think so. The banner that matches the official > logo contains the part of the official logo which would create a > misuse of the official logo itself on the index page but I will leave > it to the SCs to comment on using a banner that was not voted on when > we voted on the logo, as decoration in absence of a logo and a simple > text link to the state. > > Using a banner instead of the official logo on our pages confuses our > visitors and makes the branding of our project more difficult. I > think after all the work that was done and the voting everyone partook > in that we would all be proud of our official logo and use it. I hope > that clears up the confusion and not makes the waters any more muddy. > > Karen > ASC MNGenWeb > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: >> Karen, >> >> In your original email of March 19, item #8 implied that the use of a >> logo was optional - "If you use a logo ...". >> >> So now you are saying the official logo *must* be on the index page - >> "our official logo needs to be there as well". Or does that apply >> only if there's a banner? It seems ambiguous. >> >> And where is this requirement regarding the state logo to be found? >> It's not on the USGenWeb Guidelines page, and as far as I know, >> MNGenWeb has no Bylaws, so I'm wondering who is making these rules. >> >> Anyway, I left the banner as is and added a logo in the About section >> where I explained what MNGenWeb is. Seems appropriate there. :) >> >> John >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2015, at 07:55, Karen De Groote wrote: >> >>> Great question John. When we all voted for the official logo, that >>> became the official logo. Banners are just that, banners. Now there >>> is no problem with decorating with banners, even on the index page but >>> our official logo needs to be there as well. Kermit reworked the old >>> Pennau banner to be in compliance with the name so we can use itd. It >>> does not contain the official logo. Keith chose to add a banner to >>> the logos page that DOES incorporate the official logo, however we did >>> not vote to have a banner as an official logo so it is still a banner >>> not a logo. >>> >>> I hope that makes sense and I imagine Shirley and Tim will explain >>> maybe a bit better. Thanks for the question. >>> Karen >>> ASC MNGenWeb >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015, John Van Essen via <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 19:55, Karen De Groote via wrote: >>>> >>>>> The leadership team will begin reviewing their counties at the end of >>>>> this 10 day period for the basic requirements ... >>>> >>>> Okay - so that period is up! I have a question about the logo rules. >>>> >>>>> 8. All county sites must provide a link to the state site. ... >>>>> Here is the page with our official logo >>>>> and the acceptable banner that can be used on other pages that are NOT >>>>> the index page: http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/logo.htm. >>>>> This is an area that we have problems with in this project. Some are >>>>> using the old logo and some are using the the new BANNER on the index >>>>> page for a logo rather than the official logo. ... >>>> >>>> So by "old logo" you are referring to the Pennau banner with Minnesota >>>> spelled out, which is not in compliance with USGenWeb rules for state >>>> logos. By "new BANNER", you are referring to the re-formatted Pennau >>>> banner on the above page, also not suitable as a logo. >>>> >>>> Since the Gulsvig banner on the Logo Sets page: >>>> >>>> http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mngenweb/MNGenWeb%20Logo%20Sets.html >>>> >>>> incorporates the official logo and was not specifically forbidden >>>> and the use of a logo is *optional*, I have chosen to replace the >>>> old Pennau logo with the exact same-size Gulsvig banner, and still >>>> linking it to the MNGenWeb page. >>>> >>>> So I'm looking for affirmation that what I have here is acceptable: >>>> >>>> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mncrowwi/ >>>> >>>> It looks swell! >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> John Van Essen, Crow Wing county