Genealogists, I need your help! On January 1st, I take office as the new county clerk of Washtenaw County. As you know, Washtenaw County is regarded as a difficult county for genealogy research. I want to change that, but I expect to face some institutional inertia and perhaps opposition. Very likely I will hear arguments that changes I propose are contrary to Michigan law. What I need is a list of those things which need to be changed in the County Clerk's office. Some changes will probably be easy; others may take some fighting for; still others may not be achievable. But I can't even begin without knowing specifically what they are. I also need examples of other Michigan counties with policies more friendly to genealogy. There are 83 county clerks in Michigan. I need to know which ones are pro-genealogy and likely to be allies and resources for helping make these changes. Also, I am planning to create a volunteer citizens advisory board or committee for the Clerk-Register's office, and I want at least one of the members to represent genealogy. If you are interested in this, please send your information to me via email or postal mail. Further, I am always interested in comments, suggestions, and criticisms on any aspect of the county clerk/register's office and my management of it. Please feel free to contact me with any concerns which arise during my term of office. Many thanks! Larry Kestenbaum soon to take office as Washtenaw County Clerk/Register of Deeds --- Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106

Ditto, for Calhoun County, MI (a kind soul sent me the copied page FREE, of the 1879 marriage of my great grandparents). All I want is the May 29th, 1832 record (copied, uncertified page) of my great great grandparents, Daniel Tainter & Polly Godfrey by Judge Deland in Washtenaw County, MI. In Charlevoix County, the Boyne City Clerk sent me a marriage certificate for $5.00, nicely typewritten & without errors, when the State charged me $15.00 and made mistakes, looking at the same page! Most likely misread by a young state employee It is best to get a copy of the original handwritten/typed page, the entire page is great, as it can lead to other clues in your search. Sincerely, Marilyn LeVeque Oceano, CA -------Original Message------- From: MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com Date: 11/08/04 14:44:15 To: MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIWASHTE] County records: policy changes? Mr. Kestenbaum, Is it possible to allow researchers to obtain a xerox of a record for a nominal fee? In most cases, a certified copy is not necessary and the $13.00 fee for each record really adds up. I am not aware of the current policy, but about four or five years ago I was able to order copies of marriage records from Ingham County for only $5.00 each. Thank you taking the time to consider our suggestions, Jane Barker Phoenix, AZ Researching Barker and King in Washtenaw County ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@potifos.com> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: [MIWASHTE] County records: policy changes? Genealogists, I need your help! On January 1st, I take office as the new county clerk of Washtenaw County. As you know, Washtenaw County is regarded as a difficult county for genealogy research. I want to change that, but I expect to face some institutional inertia and perhaps opposition. Very likely I will hear arguments that changes I propose are contrary to Michigan law. What I need is a list of those things which need to be changed in the County Clerk's office. Some changes will probably be easy; others may take some fighting for; still others may not be achievable. But I can't even begin without knowing specifically what they are. I also need examples of other Michigan counties with policies more friendly to genealogy. There are 83 county clerks in Michigan. I need to know which ones are pro-genealogy and likely to be allies and resources for helping make these changes. Also, I am planning to create a volunteer citizens advisory board or committee for the Clerk-Register's office, and I want at least one of the members to represent genealogy. If you are interested in this, please send your information to me via email or postal mail. Further, I am always interested in comments, suggestions, and criticisms on any aspect of the county clerk/register's office and my management of it. Please feel free to contact me with any concerns which arise during my term of office. Many thanks! Larry Kestenbaum soon to take office as Washtenaw County Clerk/Register of Deeds --- Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106

Mr. Kestenbaum, Is it possible to allow researchers to obtain a xerox of a record for a nominal fee? In most cases, a certified copy is not necessary and the $13.00 fee for each record really adds up. I am not aware of the current policy, but about four or five years ago I was able to order copies of marriage records from Ingham County for only $5.00 each. Thank you taking the time to consider our suggestions, Jane Barker Phoenix, AZ Researching Barker and King in Washtenaw County ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@potifos.com> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: [MIWASHTE] County records: policy changes? Genealogists, I need your help! On January 1st, I take office as the new county clerk of Washtenaw County. As you know, Washtenaw County is regarded as a difficult county for genealogy research. I want to change that, but I expect to face some institutional inertia and perhaps opposition. Very likely I will hear arguments that changes I propose are contrary to Michigan law. What I need is a list of those things which need to be changed in the County Clerk's office. Some changes will probably be easy; others may take some fighting for; still others may not be achievable. But I can't even begin without knowing specifically what they are. I also need examples of other Michigan counties with policies more friendly to genealogy. There are 83 county clerks in Michigan. I need to know which ones are pro-genealogy and likely to be allies and resources for helping make these changes. Also, I am planning to create a volunteer citizens advisory board or committee for the Clerk-Register's office, and I want at least one of the members to represent genealogy. If you are interested in this, please send your information to me via email or postal mail. Further, I am always interested in comments, suggestions, and criticisms on any aspect of the county clerk/register's office and my management of it. Please feel free to contact me with any concerns which arise during my term of office. Many thanks! Larry Kestenbaum soon to take office as Washtenaw County Clerk/Register of Deeds --- Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106

I am listed as a contact for Conrad Finkbeiner and I need to give you my new e-mail address. It is j.scholtz01@comcast.net I may also be listed with some Schlicht, Huehl, or Alber marriages. Thanks so much for all you do for genealogy!! Judy Scholtz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack & Marianne Dibean" <dibeanjack@juno.com> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 10:37 AM Subject: [MIWASHTE] DIETERLE and FINKBEINER Marriages > We maintain the Michigan Marriage Index Database that has the following > records: > > NAME,SPOUSE,COUNTY,DATE,DOCUMENT,INFO > =================================================== > CHRISTINA - DIETERLE,JACOB - FRUZBEINER/FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,15 MAR > 1870,---,--- > JACOB - FRUZBEINER/FINKBEINER,CHRISTINA - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,15 MAR > 1870,---,--- > > JOHN - DIETERLE,MARY MAGDALINE SCHERDT,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1879,---,--- > MARY MAGDALINE SCHERDT,JOHN DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1879,---,--- > > WILLIAM GEORG DIETERLE,CHRISTINE BARBARA KECK,WASHTENAW,23 SEP > 1880,---,--- > CHRISTINE BARBARA KECK,WILLIAM GEORG DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,23 SEP > 1880,---,--- > > MARTHA - DIETERLE,JACOB G SCHUMACHER,WASHTENAW,26 DEC 1882,---,--- > JACOB G SCHUMACHER,MARTHA - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,26 DEC 1882,---,--- > > CHRISTIAN - DIETERLE,CHRISTINA - WAGNER,WASHTENAW,21 FEB 1884,---,--- > CHRISTINA - WAGNER,CHRISTIAN - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,21 FEB 1884,---,--- > > LILLIAN A BASING,GEORGE H DIETERLE,LIVINGSTON,11 MAR 1886,---,--- > GEORGE H DIETERLE,LILLIAN A BASING,LIVINGSTON,11 MAR 1886,---,--- > > EMMA M DIETERLE,CHARLES E WEIDMAYER,WASHTENAW,20 FEB 1907,---,--- > CHARLES E WEIDMAYER,EMMA M DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,20 FEB 1907,---,--- > > ========================================== > NAME,SPOUSE,COUNTY,DATE,DOCUMENT,INFO > ========================================== > LOUISE - FINKBEINER,JOHN GEORGE KLUMPP,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1864,---,--- > JOHN GEORGE KLUMPP,LOUISE - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1864,---,--- > > CHRISTINA - ALBER,CONRAD - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,28 SEP > 1864,---,j.scholtz@insightbb.com > CONRAD - FINKBEINER,CHRISTINA - ALBER,WASHTENAW,28 SEP > 1864,---,j.scholtz@insightbb.com > > JACOB - FINKBEINER,KATY - KANFIELD,OSCEOLA,11 FEB 1873,---,--- > KATY - KANFIELD,JACOB - FINKBEINER,OSCEOLA,11 FEB 1873,---,--- > > BERNHARDT - FINKBEINER,FREDRICA - ZIMNIERMAN,OSCEOLA,20 APR 1875,---,--- > FREDRICA - ZIMNIERMAN,BERNHARDT - FINKBEINER,OSCEOLA,20 APR 1875,---,--- > > GEORGE - FINKBEINER,KATHARINE - SCHAIBLE,WASHTENAW,19 APR 1881,---,--- > KATHARINE - SCHAIBLE,GEORGE - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,19 APR 1881,---,--- > > JOHN - FINKBEINER,EMMA MARY ORTH,WASHTENAW,08 OCT 1884,---,--- > EMMA MARY ORTH,JOHN - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,08 OCT 1884,---,--- > > ANNA BARBARA ECKARDT,ANDREW>ANDREAS GOTTLEIB FINKBEINER,BARRY,08 MAR > 1894,---,--- > ANDREW>ANDREAS GOTTLIEB FINKBEINER,ANNA BARBARA ECKARDT,BARRY,08 MAR > 1894,---,--- > > AARON GEORGE FELDKAMP,BERTHA LYDIA FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,08 FEB > 1917,---,bjburns@i2k.com > BERTHA LYDIA FINKBEINER,AARON GEORGE FELDKAMP,WASHTENAW,08 FEB > 1917,---,bjburns@i2k.com > > ELVIN CARL FINKBEINER,BURMAH - WORTZ,VAN BUREN,21 JUN 1925,---,--- > BURMAN - WORTZ,ELVIN CARL FINKBEINER,VAN BUREN,21 JUN 1925,---,--- > > OMER HENRY FELDKAMP,MELINDA - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,23 JUN > 1927,---,bjburns@i2k.com > MELINDA - FINKBEINER,OMER HENRY FELDKAMP,WASHTENAW,23 JUN > 1927,---,bjburns@i2k.com > > JOHN DANIEL DUNLAP,EMMA AMANDA FINKBEINER,HURON,01 JAN 1936,---,--- > EMMA AMANDA FINKBEINER,JOHN DANIEL DUNLAP,HURON,01 JAN 1936,---,--- > > MONICA M ANDERSON,CLIFFORD J FINKBEINER,KENT,24 JUN 1939,LSJ 06 JUL 2001 > -,--- > CLIFFORD J FINKBEINER,MONICA M ANDERSON,KENT,24 JUN 1939,LSJ 06 JUL 2001 > -,--- > > RODNEY W FINKBEINER,CHARLOTTE - KENYON,BARRY,31 DEC 1954,DELAYED > MARRIAGES - 051349,--- > CHARLOTTE - KENYON,RODNEY W FINKBEINER,BARRY,31 DEC 1954,DELAYED > MARRIAGES - 051349,--- > > Any Family Connections? If so, we would like to add your email address > to the record. > > Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan > GenWeb Archives: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm > > ________________________________________________________________ > Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. > Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! > Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. > >

Dale, I found this using google: From the Genealogical Society of Washtenaw County, MI: 1929/08/05 Monday Ann Arbor News [article] Pg.1 ENOCH DIETERLE TAKEN BY DEATH Lifelong Resident, Former Undertaker, Dies at Summer Home Enoch Dieterle, 64, of 300 South Revena Blvd., retired funeral director and a lifelong resident of this city, died Sunday morning at his summer cottage at Whitmore Lake, after a lingering illness. He was born March 30, 1865, in Ann Arbor, where he later established a funeral home, remaining in this business until 10 years ago. He was a member of Zion Lutheran church, and the church brotherhood. Mr. Dieterle was a charter member and director of Schwaben Verein, and also was affiliated with B. P. O. Elks, No. 325 of Ann Arbor, Arbeiter Verein, and Michigan Undertakers association. He is survived by his wife, Lydia Fiegel Dieterle; four brothers, Godfrey of Manchester, William of Detroit, Henry of Dexter and August of Baltimore, Md.; a sister, Dr. Anna Dieterle of Ann Arbor, and several nephews and nieces. Funeral services will be held at 2:30 Tuesday afternoon at the residence and at 3 o'clock at Zion Lutheran church. Rev. E. C. Stellhorn will officiate. Interment will be in Bethlehem cemetery. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Marshall" <pepper-dale@charter.net> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 7:13 PM Subject: [MIWASHTE] DIETERLEs , Washtenaw Co. MICH, 1900's > Dear List, > > I have come across the following 3 & 4 year-old email postings: > =============== > Re: DIETERLE , Michigan 1900's > Posted by: Karen Date: September 08, 2000 > Do you have any idea where in Michigan her family was living? My > g-g-grandmother was Christiana Dieterle Finkbeiner; she died in Washtenaw > Co., Michigan in 1918. There are other DIETERLE families in Washtenaw Co > also,although I'm not sure how they all connect at this point. > ================== > Re: DIETERLE , Michigan 1900's > Posted by: Cindi Date: March 27, 2001 > So far my DIETERLEs are in Ingham, Livingston, and Mecosta Counties. The > earliest DIETERLE I have found so far is Henry A. He had 3 children, S.G., > Newton, and Kathrine. I don't know if this will be of help, but maybe > someday it will be. > ================== > Also from RootsWeb.com: > > # ID: I484 > # Name: Don Enoch DIETERLE > # Sex: M > # Birth: 24 Nov 1890 in Detroit, Michigan > # Married: 18 Jan 1911 in Detroit, Michigan > # Death: 7 Sep 1961 in Toledo, Lucas County, Ohio > Marriage 1 Ruby Jane Potts b: 20 Dec 1891 in Detroit, Michigan > ================== > My query is to ask if any information exists for DIETERLEs in my family > connections (I have a 1920 photo showing the following three): > > Enoch DIETERLE (from Ann Arbor, MI area), [estimated to in his 30s-40s in > 1920 photo] > who M Lida ________ > Also Lida's mother, name unknown. > > pepper-dale@charter.net in Georgia > >

We maintain the Michigan Marriage Index Database that has the following records: NAME,SPOUSE,COUNTY,DATE,DOCUMENT,INFO =================================================== CHRISTINA - DIETERLE,JACOB - FRUZBEINER/FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,15 MAR 1870,---,--- JACOB - FRUZBEINER/FINKBEINER,CHRISTINA - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,15 MAR 1870,---,--- JOHN - DIETERLE,MARY MAGDALINE SCHERDT,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1879,---,--- MARY MAGDALINE SCHERDT,JOHN DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1879,---,--- WILLIAM GEORG DIETERLE,CHRISTINE BARBARA KECK,WASHTENAW,23 SEP 1880,---,--- CHRISTINE BARBARA KECK,WILLIAM GEORG DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,23 SEP 1880,---,--- MARTHA - DIETERLE,JACOB G SCHUMACHER,WASHTENAW,26 DEC 1882,---,--- JACOB G SCHUMACHER,MARTHA - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,26 DEC 1882,---,--- CHRISTIAN - DIETERLE,CHRISTINA - WAGNER,WASHTENAW,21 FEB 1884,---,--- CHRISTINA - WAGNER,CHRISTIAN - DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,21 FEB 1884,---,--- LILLIAN A BASING,GEORGE H DIETERLE,LIVINGSTON,11 MAR 1886,---,--- GEORGE H DIETERLE,LILLIAN A BASING,LIVINGSTON,11 MAR 1886,---,--- EMMA M DIETERLE,CHARLES E WEIDMAYER,WASHTENAW,20 FEB 1907,---,--- CHARLES E WEIDMAYER,EMMA M DIETERLE,WASHTENAW,20 FEB 1907,---,--- ========================================== NAME,SPOUSE,COUNTY,DATE,DOCUMENT,INFO ========================================== LOUISE - FINKBEINER,JOHN GEORGE KLUMPP,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1864,---,--- JOHN GEORGE KLUMPP,LOUISE - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,27 MAR 1864,---,--- CHRISTINA - ALBER,CONRAD - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,28 SEP 1864,---,j.scholtz@insightbb.com CONRAD - FINKBEINER,CHRISTINA - ALBER,WASHTENAW,28 SEP 1864,---,j.scholtz@insightbb.com JACOB - FINKBEINER,KATY - KANFIELD,OSCEOLA,11 FEB 1873,---,--- KATY - KANFIELD,JACOB - FINKBEINER,OSCEOLA,11 FEB 1873,---,--- BERNHARDT - FINKBEINER,FREDRICA - ZIMNIERMAN,OSCEOLA,20 APR 1875,---,--- FREDRICA - ZIMNIERMAN,BERNHARDT - FINKBEINER,OSCEOLA,20 APR 1875,---,--- GEORGE - FINKBEINER,KATHARINE - SCHAIBLE,WASHTENAW,19 APR 1881,---,--- KATHARINE - SCHAIBLE,GEORGE - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,19 APR 1881,---,--- JOHN - FINKBEINER,EMMA MARY ORTH,WASHTENAW,08 OCT 1884,---,--- EMMA MARY ORTH,JOHN - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,08 OCT 1884,---,--- ANNA BARBARA ECKARDT,ANDREW>ANDREAS GOTTLEIB FINKBEINER,BARRY,08 MAR 1894,---,--- ANDREW>ANDREAS GOTTLIEB FINKBEINER,ANNA BARBARA ECKARDT,BARRY,08 MAR 1894,---,--- AARON GEORGE FELDKAMP,BERTHA LYDIA FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,08 FEB 1917,---,bjburns@i2k.com BERTHA LYDIA FINKBEINER,AARON GEORGE FELDKAMP,WASHTENAW,08 FEB 1917,---,bjburns@i2k.com ELVIN CARL FINKBEINER,BURMAH - WORTZ,VAN BUREN,21 JUN 1925,---,--- BURMAN - WORTZ,ELVIN CARL FINKBEINER,VAN BUREN,21 JUN 1925,---,--- OMER HENRY FELDKAMP,MELINDA - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,23 JUN 1927,---,bjburns@i2k.com MELINDA - FINKBEINER,OMER HENRY FELDKAMP,WASHTENAW,23 JUN 1927,---,bjburns@i2k.com JOHN DANIEL DUNLAP,EMMA AMANDA FINKBEINER,HURON,01 JAN 1936,---,--- EMMA AMANDA FINKBEINER,JOHN DANIEL DUNLAP,HURON,01 JAN 1936,---,--- MONICA M ANDERSON,CLIFFORD J FINKBEINER,KENT,24 JUN 1939,LSJ 06 JUL 2001 -,--- CLIFFORD J FINKBEINER,MONICA M ANDERSON,KENT,24 JUN 1939,LSJ 06 JUL 2001 -,--- RODNEY W FINKBEINER,CHARLOTTE - KENYON,BARRY,31 DEC 1954,DELAYED MARRIAGES - 051349,--- CHARLOTTE - KENYON,RODNEY W FINKBEINER,BARRY,31 DEC 1954,DELAYED MARRIAGES - 051349,--- Any Family Connections? If so, we would like to add your email address to the record. Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

Dear List, I have come across the following 3 & 4 year-old email postings: =============== Re: DIETERLE , Michigan 1900's Posted by: Karen Date: September 08, 2000 Do you have any idea where in Michigan her family was living? My g-g-grandmother was Christiana Dieterle Finkbeiner; she died in Washtenaw Co., Michigan in 1918. There are other DIETERLE families in Washtenaw Co also,although I'm not sure how they all connect at this point. ================== Re: DIETERLE , Michigan 1900's Posted by: Cindi Date: March 27, 2001 So far my DIETERLEs are in Ingham, Livingston, and Mecosta Counties. The earliest DIETERLE I have found so far is Henry A. He had 3 children, S.G., Newton, and Kathrine. I don't know if this will be of help, but maybe someday it will be. ================== Also from RootsWeb.com: # ID: I484 # Name: Don Enoch DIETERLE # Sex: M # Birth: 24 Nov 1890 in Detroit, Michigan # Married: 18 Jan 1911 in Detroit, Michigan # Death: 7 Sep 1961 in Toledo, Lucas County, Ohio Marriage 1 Ruby Jane Potts b: 20 Dec 1891 in Detroit, Michigan ================== My query is to ask if any information exists for DIETERLEs in my family connections (I have a 1920 photo showing the following three): Enoch DIETERLE (from Ann Arbor, MI area), [estimated to in his 30s-40s in 1920 photo] who M Lida ________ Also Lida's mother, name unknown. pepper-dale@charter.net in Georgia

May I suggest you contact the Chelsea Library http://chelsea.lib.mi.us/ They have an obituary/cemetery listing for the area which may help you. Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamelyn P. Bush" <pamelynb@enter.net> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 9:19 PM Subject: James Patterson Bush (1810-1891) > Does anyone know how I can find the exact date of death for James Patterson Bush, born 22 November 1810 in Bridgewater Twp. Somerset Co, NJ? He died in 1891 in Lyndon Twp leaving second wife, Selina (Cohoon) Nixon Bush and at least 7 adult children. Surnames of spouses of these children include Fisk (2), Showers, Steffe, Kingsbury, Schultz, Collins. I would like to write for obituaries of children and grandchildren who died in the 20th century. Can anyone provide a public library or county library address where microfilm of local papers might be available? Would there be a death certificate for James P. Bush in 1891 in a MI department of vital records? I know there are a few researchers for this man's parents, David Bush (1774-1861) and Keturah (Gertrude) Stryker Bush, in Somerset Co NJ. > > Pam Bush >

Does anyone know how I can find the exact date of death for James Patterson Bush, born 22 November 1810 in Bridgewater Twp. Somerset Co, NJ? He died in 1891 in Lyndon Twp leaving second wife, Selina (Cohoon) Nixon Bush and at least 7 adult children. Surnames of spouses of these children include Fisk (2), Showers, Steffe, Kingsbury, Schultz, Collins. I would like to write for obituaries of children and grandchildren who died in the 20th century. Can anyone provide a public library or county library address where microfilm of local papers might be available? Would there be a death certificate for James P. Bush in 1891 in a MI department of vital records? I know there are a few researchers for this man's parents, David Bush (1774-1861) and Keturah (Gertrude) Stryker Bush, in Somerset Co NJ. Pam Bush

Greetings, I have found the Washtenaw VR office to be useless. They just passed me off to the state, who is worse. I suppose they could close the office down, who would notice if you can't get any info anyway. Good luck

for hotel photo...Detroit History Museum and/or the Bentley Library at UofM >>> WSchumaker@aol.com 10/22/2004 2:29:44 PM >>> Greeting fellow Gen. person: Do you know where or how to look up my Det."Schumacher" family records real-estate records 1855 naturalization records 1850-60 orphan files 1865 old Det.hotel photo around 1875 any ideas help appreciated wm

Greeting fellow Gen. person: Do you know where or how to look up my Det."Schumacher" family records real-estate records 1855 naturalization records 1850-60 orphan files 1865 old Det.hotel photo around 1875 any ideas help appreciated wm

I live in Wayne County and wandered down to Washtenaw to look up my family from the 1800's. I don't care if the County Clerk is Republican, Democrat, Green Party or anything. It is the most unfriendly place to try to do anything. They obviously don't want you there. I'm not surprised that no one will do lookups there. Try going to Ingham County. The people in Mason at the courthouse bend over backwards to help.

Hello listers, Please discontinue this thread. The MIWASHTE list is not to be used for anyone’s political or monetary gain. If you want to tell people how to vote, then I would write to the editor of the Ann Arbor newspaper, and if you want to carry on this conversation by e-mail, then please find another way to do it. I appreciate that we have Washtenaw County residents on this list, and I know of many who are contributors to furthering genealogy and preserving history in the county. I disagree with posting a political message, but it’s been done, and everyone has seen it. Now it’s time to move on to other topics. Also, I am going out of town tomorrow and will not have access to my e-mail. I can normally count on list members to refrain from starting a war while I’m gone for a few days, and so I hope that all of you will be considerate of your fellow list members. This list is for all of us, and it’s supposed to be fun. Anyone having trouble understanding any of this can reach me (when I get back) at HYPERLINK "mailto:ckurtz@alltel.net"ckurtz@alltel.net. If anyone feels they need to continue this on the list, then don’t be surprised if you find yourself unsubscribed. Regards, Charla Kurtz HYPERLINK "mailto:ckurtz@alltel.net"ckurtz@alltel.net List manager – HYPERLINK "mailto:MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com"MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.772 / Virus Database: 519 - Release Date: 10/1/2004

Unfortunately, the earlier email from some one else alluded to the fact that they could not see records, unless they were paid for. This simply isn't so with FOIA. I realize that she can charge a reasonable fee for copies. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" > It's not as simple as that. She wasn't preventing the records from being > disclosed -- rather, she was charging extortionate fees for them. > > The remedy for a violation of the Freedom of Information Act is to go to > court to get a judge to order compliance. Indeed, I have been to court to > enforce FOIA. However, in this case I was trying for a more gentle > approach, to persuade the Clerk to use her discretion in a sensible way, > rather than creating litigation between two county officials. > > Moreover, though I have not looked at this recently, I believe that birth > and death records as such (and the fees charged) are not fully subject to > FOIA, due to exceptions in the statutes. > > The fact that the clerk's office repeatedly and falsely denied having a > particular record would probably be seen as a "mistake" rather than a > violation. In the past, I have dealt with this by asking the public body > to acknowledge in writing that they have violated the statute which makes > it a crime to destroy certain kinds of public records; this invariably > motivates them to discover the record they had insisted was "lost"! > > Larry > > --- > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com > Candidate for County Clerk/Register, http://KestenbaumCampaign.com > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com > Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106 > >

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Jan Cortez wrote: > What I find most interesting about this whole topic is that failure to > disclose public record is a Violation of the Freedom of Information Act. I > do realize that there are some records not subject to disclosure, such as > births during a certain period of time, personnel records, etc., but as an > attorney Mr. Kestenbaum, I would think that you most certainly could have > made some sort of issue over this. While the County Clerk is the official > keeper of the records, there is such as thing as violation of this act, if > in fact what I am hearing on this list is true, in that she is withholding > open public records from disclosure. > > Would be most interested in your take on this. It's not as simple as that. She wasn't preventing the records from being disclosed -- rather, she was charging extortionate fees for them. The remedy for a violation of the Freedom of Information Act is to go to court to get a judge to order compliance. Indeed, I have been to court to enforce FOIA. However, in this case I was trying for a more gentle approach, to persuade the Clerk to use her discretion in a sensible way, rather than creating litigation between two county officials. Moreover, though I have not looked at this recently, I believe that birth and death records as such (and the fees charged) are not fully subject to FOIA, due to exceptions in the statutes. The fact that the clerk's office repeatedly and falsely denied having a particular record would probably be seen as a "mistake" rather than a violation. In the past, I have dealt with this by asking the public body to acknowledge in writing that they have violated the statute which makes it a crime to destroy certain kinds of public records; this invariably motivates them to discover the record they had insisted was "lost"! Larry --- Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com Candidate for County Clerk/Register, http://KestenbaumCampaign.com The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106

--- Kaykarl@aol.com wrote: > Peggy has been doing an excellent job as clerk of > our County. Whatever > problems you are having in minimal in record to the > overall responsiblities of this > position. This isn't a political mailing list, it's a genealogy list, and the thrust of my message was just that. It's pretty indisputable that, under Peggy Haines' tenure for the last 14 years, it's been prohibitive to get very basic genealogical documentation from the Washtenaw County Clerk's office. And it's also hard to dispute that Larry Kestenbaum will take a more kindly approach to genealogists, being one himself. As for experience, Larry is hardly inexperienced, but, again.... that's not the point. The point of this list, and posts to this list, is genealogy. Oh yes..... back when we were having this discussion on the list in March/April 2002, you're the one whose sole contribution to that discussion was to chastise us for "intemperate language"..... For those who want to see the original thread regarding this topic, it's in the archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MIWASHTE/ Mary __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Peggy has been doing an excellent job as clerk of our County. Whatever problems you are having is minimal in regard to the overall responsiblities of this position. You might very well reconsider your position if you take this into account. An experienced and knowledgable person working for us is far better than someone who "thinks" they can do a better job. And this is from a Democrat.

Peggy has been doing an excellent job as clerk of our County. Whatever problems you are having in minimal in record to the overall responsiblities of this position. You might very well reconsider your position if you take this into account. An experienced and knowledgable person working for us is far better than someone who "thinks" they can do a better job. And this is from a Democrat.

What I find most interesting about this whole topic is that failure to disclose public record is a Violation of the Freedom of Information Act. I do realize that there are some records not subject to disclosure, such as births during a certain period of time, personnel records, etc., but as an attorney Mr. Kestenbaum, I would think that you most certainly could have made some sort of issue over this. While the County Clerk is the official keeper of the records, there is such as thing as violation of this act, if in fact what I am hearing on this list is true, in that she is withholding open public records from disclosure. Would be most interested in your take on this. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" > > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Ann Garvin wrote: > > > that is very interesting. I am reconsidering my vote! Thank you!! > > And, actually, Larry Kestenbaum is the creator of the Political > > Graveyard website. > > Yes, that's me. :-) And I have been a member of this list for some time. > > Larry > > --- > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com > Candidate for County Clerk/Register, http://KestenbaumCampaign.com > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com > Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106 > >