(Karl) August Widenmann, my grgrfather, b. 21 Aug 1826 in Blaubeuren, Kingdom of Wurttemberg, d. 22 June 1884 in Ann Arbor, came to Ann Arbor in 1851, opened a hardware business the following year and on 11 March 1864 was appointed Consul for the Michigan area by King William II of Wurttemberg. There are indications that he at the time was also speculating in real estate. At any rate the family was wealthy. In 1873 or '74 he suddenly lost everything: his financial resources, his home and - most important - his reputation among his fellow Germans. The family was thus reduced to poverty. What happened to cause all that? I have a couple of theories but nothing concrete in the way of documentation. Does anyone on this list recall having encountered mention of A.W. in a contemporary newspaper article, biography or letter - in short, anything that might throw some light on the cause of his demise? I am currently living near Copenhagen, Denmark, which hampers direct research in primary sources, and would thus be very grateful for help of any kind: a clue, a hint - anything!. -- Regards, Robert J. Widenmann maribob@tdcadsl.dk

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Robert J. Widenmann wrote: > In 1873 or '74 he suddenly lost everything: his financial resources, his home > and - most important - his reputation among his fellow Germans. The family > was thus reduced to poverty. > > What happened to cause all that? Most likely it was the Panic of 1873. It was a sudden and catastrophic business downturn. Much of the paper money that existed (issued by private banks) became instantly worthless when the banks collapsed. Undoubtedly real estate values crashed too. Lots of affluent folks were plunged into poverty. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873 for details and links. It has mostly been forgotten, but the word "depression", as first used in the 1930s, was a euphemism for "panic". Later, of course, "recession" became a euphemism for "depression". But today we have stable currency, unemployment compensation, etc., so the impact of these events is much less severe. Larry --- Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com Washtenaw County Clerk & Register of Deeds The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106

Hello Washtenaw board, I am in a fix. I am still searching for the parents of my Mary "Polly" Godfrey, born March 26th, 1804 in NY. Per her son, Daniel Augustus Tainter, she & her family lived in Washtenaw County, MI. On May 29th, 1832, she married Daniel Tainter in Washtenaw County, MI, the very first marriage performed by Judge Deland. She is posted in the Washtenaw Dibean Marriage Index & I have her Bible. Unfortunately, in 1832, Washtenaw County included the areas that are now Ingham & Jackson Counties. By 1840, they had moved back to Erie County, NY, but by 1845 had returned to Jackson County, MI in the Rives & Tompkins areas. In the 1850 Census she is listed as "Tinter". Daniel Tainter, Sr. died in Jackson County, MI on March 29th, 1846. Polly Tainter remarried to a "Mr. Godfrey" [who was not a relation], after 1846, but he too died, I assume the marriage was between 1846-1860, but I have never found this second marriage. In the 1860 Jackson Co. MI Census she & her children are using the name "Godfrey", but she is widowed. She died on Feb. 12th, 1861. My great grandfather, Daniel Augustus Tainter, born 1839, then enlisted in the Army and served in the Civil War. When he returned from the War in 1865 he settled in Onondaga, MI, he wrote for a biography in Northern MI that he attended school in Jackson County, MI. By 1875 or so, he had moved to Boyne City, Charlevoix County, MI. He married Alice Eliza Hull of Ingham Co., MI in 1865. Sarah Louise Tainter, his sister married Nathan Gleason Fillmore Jefferds/Jeffords & they lived in Leslie, Ingham County, MI. Does any Godfrey researcher in Washtenaw know of my Mary "Polly" Godfrey born 1804? My theory is she was born in Batavia, NY. The Tainter family was from Batavia, Genesee County, NY and Daniel Tainter, Sr.'s parents had died by 1825 & in the 1820 Census of Batavia they lived near 2 Godfrey families (Mary Godfrey & Meriam Godfrey both widows in Batavia, NY). It is my belief that Daniel came with his neighbors, Godfrey sons, to Washtenaw County & married Polly Godfrey. The MI Gendis does not list any of their deaths that occured in Jackson County, MI, here are the deaths: Early Marriages, Daniel married Polly Godfrey in Washtenaw County, MI on May 29th, 1832. Daniel Taintor/Tainter born in N.Y. on April 20th, 1797- died March 29th,1846 in Jackson, MI. Polly Godfrey born in N.Y. on March 26th, 1804- died Feb. 12th, 1861. May have been buried as a Tainter or Godfrey. Their children who died by 1870 are: Mary Ann Tainter, born April 10, 1835, died Jan. 30th, 1870, in Jackson County, MI. Meriam/Marian Tainter, born Aug. 4th, 1837, died Jan. 8th, in Jackson County, MI. Norton Taintor born Dec. 12th, 1845, died Jan. 3rd, 1848 in Jackson County, MI. Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated as I live in CA. Sincerely, Marilyn mleveque@tcsn.net

Hello I'm new to the list and I'm searching for emigrants of the former Kingdom of Wuerttemberg and their descendents. So far some of them could be found in Washtenaw Co. After the experiences from Ohio I expect that there are more families from my hometown area who had settled in the same area. Here's the list of names where I have some information. If you have a link to these or to those mentioned on my website I would appreciate to share information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- Name RIN-No birth date Birth place Death date Death place Schettler, Johannes 7143 23 Jul 1820 Wankheim Washtenaw Co., MI Schettler, Caroline C 13835 23 Sep 1861 MI Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Friedrich 10545 18 Feb 1850 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Johann Georg 10515 24 Jul 1802 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Wilhelm 10546 20 Nov 1851 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Christian 10547 6 Jan 1854 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Johannes 10548 22 Jul 1858 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Elisabeth 10542 17 Dec 1846 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Johann Martin 10543 28 Nov 1847 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Jakob 10544 14 Jan 1849 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Schettler, Oscar F 13825 14 Jan 1896 Washtenaw Co., MI Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Kern, Anna Maria 10549 26 Jul 1862 Kusterdingen Ann Arbor, Washtenaw Co., MI Schettler, Mary Anna 13775 21 Jan 1850 Chelsea, Washtenaw Co., MI Hieber, Gottlieb 13776 4 Mar 1844 Chelsea, Washtenaw Co., MI Schettler, Catharine B 13800 8 Jan 1856 MI Freedom, Washtenaw Co., MI Grauer, Johann Martin 3264 3 Jul 1804 Mähringen Freedom Twp., Washtenaw Co., MI Braun, Anna Barbara 3801 2 Apr 1805 Mähringen Freedom Twp., Washtenaw Co., MI Schettler, Hannah B 13823 20 Jun 1891 Manchester, Washtenaw Co., MI ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Please copy the records with cut and paste into a word document and you will see it structured in columns. Kind regards Ruediger Kemmler Munich, Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please check out my emigration website: http://home.nexgo.de/r.kemmler

I know this is late and I apologize, but I wanted to send a hearty "THANK YOU" so much for all you have done for my family and I this last year. Things went from bad to worse for us in the last 4 months and we have been struggling with some situations - sometimes people get hit with things all at once and it was a continual flood until December - now things are looking up, so I wanted to extend a robust "HAPPY NEW YEAR" as well to all of you. If there is any way I can ever help, please let me know. Once we get ourselves situated again, I am sure I will be making inquiries, but I apologize for not corresponding or thanking enough - it has been a really, really rough last 4 months of 2004!! Looking forward to the future!! Debbie in Arkansas LOOKING FOR: MILLER/GITTINS/PERRY/PHILLIPS/CHAVEY/VAN CUREN/MORROW/HUNT/WENK

I just wanted to let you know I'll be gone on vacation from the 28th of Dec. until the20th of Jan, and then gone again until the 21st of Feb. Please hold all e-mails. Thanks Have a good Christmas holiday, and may 2005 start well for you and continue. John Proctor

We have a new email address for the Michigan Marriage Index Database. jackdibean@modempool.com Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm

Hello List, I am interested in finding someone that visits the Ann Arbor Library, and would help me find obits of three cousins in my research, who died in Ann Arbor. I have exact dates of death. Thanks for any help you can provide! Sincerely...Dave razkearney@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

Howdy All We are changing our E-Mail Address form pabst@btc-bci.com to pabst04@comcast.net. The new one is a high speed connection and our boy Clifford Montgomery is on his way to Iraq and they say that we could be able to contact him there with it. Happy Hunt-in Jim Montgomery

Greetings, I have lost the letters you sent me previously, miss filed I am sure, any way I can't find them. We had discussed many items, and you indicated that you would like copies of the important pages of the Smith Family bible which I have. There is no fronts page left, if there ever was one, and I therefore copied the first page which I do have. Following that are the entries made by several individuals pertaining to the births, marriages and deaths of Smith and Latson family members. The second set of bible papers is from a bible presented to Ellen Latson, that has a good fronts piece, and as well I have copied the important parts of the bible from a record keeping standpoint. Since I have lost the information you sent me I don't have an address to send the information. If you could resend the last letter or two, I think the correct address is in them. However please send the address of whom ever you want to have these pages. I am sorry for the inconvince this has caused. Best wishes John Proctor _maproski@aol.com_ (mailto:maproski@aol.com)

Dear Researchers, I am new to the list and would love to connect with anyone researching Irish immigrants in the area during the 1800s. Specifically I'm looking for the family of Margaret CORBETT who was born in 1814 in County Limerick, Ireland. Her mother was Irish-born Margaret FITZSIMMONS but I don't know who her father was. Her step-father was Thomas TUMMINS and I'm not certain whether Thomas and Margaret's mother came to America or stayed in Ireland. Margaret CORBETT married Dennis MORAN who was also born in County Limerick, Ireland. They were married there and had a son, James E. MORAN. James is known to have lived in Ireland, Upstate New York, Washtenaw County, Michigan, and died in 1868 in the prairie town of Gallatin, Missouri. James's parents were RYANs and DOLANs who lived nearby Margaret's family in Livingston County, Michigan. When James died, Margaret returned to Michigan to live near her family. Margaret died 11-1-1902 in Lyndon, Wahstenaw County, MI. Do you know of her or what her life was like back in Michigan? Do you have any leads so that I might find out about these Irish folks. Thanks for any help at all. Ross Malone rmalone@fidnet.com

Morn-in ALL Wanted to let you know that we have changed our E-Mail address. Our son Clifford Stacy Montgomery has been called to Fort Dix, New Jersey his last stop before going to Araq. They are saying he will be in Iraq for up to 545 days. Not sure how they came up with a number like that. Our new E-Mail address is Jim and Judy ( SHUCK ) MONTGOMERY pabst04@comcast.net. It is a high-speed connection and they say we may be able to get an E-Mail to him this way now and then. We will keep our old address pabst@btc-bci.com open for a while also. I am an old man now and remember how my dad took it when I left home for Uncle Sam. Did not understand then, but when you are the OLD MAN and it’s your kid it sure comes home fast. If some one may like to contact him his temporary address is: SSG Clifford Montgomery ( 1103 ) 1-119FA ( FWD ) BLDG 5603 6038 Doughboy Loop Fort Dix, New Jersey 08640-9001 His E-Mail address they have given him is clifford.montgomery@us.army.mil Jim and Judy Montgomery 17813 77th Street South Haven, Michigan, 49090 269-637-3502 PLEASE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS If you know of someone that is in the service of our great USA for all of us. Think about taking the time to send him or her a note now and then. I remember how much it meant to me to hear from some one back home especially this time of the year with the holidays coming up and all

Hi Jack & Marianne, Thanks for sending this. You are correct. It was his first marriage before Selina Cahoon. Phebe was actually Phebe Leland. Since she died before the 1850 census I don't know where she was born or names of her parents. And she had at least 2 children: George Bush born about 1843 and Elizabeth born November 1844. Both of them disappeared. I found a George Bush, age 27, born MI, who was listed as an inmate in Jackson State Prison, Jackson Co. in the 1870 federal census. That fits him completely for name, age, and state of birth. Pam Bush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack & Marianne Dibean" <dibeanjack@juno.com> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: [MIWASHTE] James P Bush - Phebe Lelan > We have the following record in our Michigan Marriage Index Database and > was wondering if it might be James Bush's first marriage. > > PHEBE - LELAN m JAMES P BUSH in WASHTENAW cnty 02 FEB 1842 >

We have the following record in our Michigan Marriage Index Database and was wondering if it might be James Bush's first marriage. PHEBE - LELAN m JAMES P BUSH in WASHTENAW cnty 02 FEB 1842 Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

We maintain the Michigan Marriage Index Database that has the following record: CELINA - (COHOON)~NIXON m JAMES PATTERSON BUSH in WASHTENAW cnty 18 FEB 1846 We would like to add your email address to the record as a reference for other researchers. Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

My husband and I have had contact with a few other Michigan counties, either in person, or by mail. Ionia, Mecosta and Menominee counties have been "genealogy friendly." I live in Cook County, Illinois. Here we can receive uncertified copies a little cheaper. It's been a while since I got any, so do not know current costs. Most of us genealogists do not care about the certification, just want whatever info we can find. Making records available is admirable. There is another concern: keeping those records safe. That may mean not allowing the public to handle the records. This was brought home to me in two ways: first as a long time church secretary. I solved that by looking up what anyone would want, but not allowing them to handle the books themselves. A few people were unhappy. Second was being disappointed to find an empty probate file folder in the county where my great-grandparents died. Empty because of mis-filing? Or empty because for many years anyone could look in the files? Would a looker be so selfish as to have taken the records and just returned the empty folder? Just my two cents worth. Lois Mack Schill

Here is a list of the records for the above surnames from the Michigan Marriage Index Database. NAME,SPOUSE,COUNTY,DATE,DOCUMENT,INFO ========================================== ALINE - ALBER?,MARTIN - ALBER,BERRIEN,14 JAN 1885,---,--- CHARLES M ALBER,JULIA K HENNERDINGER,WASHTENAW,30 APR 1878,---,--- CHRISTINA - ALBER,CONRAD - FINKBEINER,WASHTENAW,28 SEP 1864,---,j.scholtz01@comcast.net FREDRICK - ALBER,ANNA M WOLLENKAMP,WASHTENAW,31 DEC 1866,---,--- GEORGE - ALBER,ELIZE - KILUM,INGHAM,07 MAR 1869,---,--- HEDWIG - ALBER,JACOB - LIGRIST,INGHAM,24 JUL 1883,---,--- HENRY - ALBER,ANNA M SCHWARZ,WASHTENAW,10 JUL 1883,---,--- IDA - ALBER,SOLOMON - REVEZ,CRAWFORD,13 AUG 1886,---,--- JOHN - ALBER,MARIA - ROIDEL,WASHTENAW,12 FEB 1865,---,--- JOHN A ALBER,JAKOBINE - BLUMHARDT,WASHTENAW,30 MAR 1880,---,--- LEWIS F ALBER,ELLA S LATHROP,WASHTENAW,18 NOV 1876,---,--- LIZZIE - ALBER,FREDERICK J HONOR,WAYNE,24 AUG 1889,---,--- LOUISA - ALBER,KARL F BARTH,WASHTENAW,15 MAR 1881,---,--- MARIA - ALBER,WILHELM - WOLF,WASHTENAW,11 MAY 1883,---,--- MARTHA - FORMER~ALBER,LEO - BROWN,GR TRAVERSE,00 XXX 1916,LIBER 4 PG 104,Vol - B Moore MARTIN - ALBER,ALINE - ALBER?,BERRIEN,14 JAN 1885,---,--- MARY - ALBER,OLIVER A DICKINSON,TUSCOLA,27 JAN 1856,FAMILY HISTORY 983816, ncpetti4@juno.com MATHAURE - ALBER,FREDERIKE - EMMINGER,WASHTENAW,16 FEB 1875,---,--- MATTHIAS - ALBER,CATHERINE - SEEGER,WASHTENAW,15 NOV 1860,---,--- P - ALBER,RICHARD - MOLLOCH,WASHTENAW,30 SEP 1862,---,--- PAULINE - ALBER,LESLIE - BURCH,KENT,21 OCT 1897,CTY BK 12 PG 78,stahrkzo@aol.com ROSA - ALBER,LEVI LAFAYETTE WILSON,TUSCOLA,20 SEP 1876,FAMILY HISTORY 983816,--- MARGRETH - HUEHL,JOHN - DRESSELHAUS,WASHTENAW,30 DEC 1862,---,gscott113@aol.com CAROLINE - SCHLICHT,JOSEPH - GREVE,WASHTENAW,05 JUN 1884,---,--- MARY A - SCHLICHT,JOHN M DONLING,WASHTENAW,25 DEC 1877,---,--- SARAH - SCHLICHT,LOUIS - ERNST,WASHTENAW,16 FEB 1882,---,--- WALBURGA - SCHLICHT,JOHN - FISHER,SAGINAW,19 MAY 1879,---,--- Perhaps there are other family connections. Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

Thank you very much. We have corrected your email address in the Michigan Marriage Index Database. Jack & Marianne Dibean - Lansing Michigan GenWeb Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/marriages/michigan/michigan.htm ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

Larry, I have talked with you on other subjects in the past. I might suggest a number of things: 1 - Easier access to the "old" deeds books. 2 - Longer hours - I might suggest that you take a look at engaging the Genealogical Society of Washtenaw County in a volunteer effort to open and man the area where the old deed books etc are kept. With proper training, this might allow an evening a week when genealogical records would be available without adding costs to the county. 3 - Allow copying for minimal cost if done through a volunteer or by the genealogist himself/herself. 4 - "Actively" encourage genealogical research by allowing the Genealogical Society to hold seminars/classes/training for genealogists in the records office. 6 - Promote and market genealogy as a "normal function" of the Clerk and Register of Deeds offices rather than just "being there" when someone wants to look something up. 7 - Set up some sort of "credit card" or "genealogical account" for genealogist to "charge" to if they wish to use the records on a regular basis. 8 - Engage local genealogists or the GSWC to be daily "volunteers" who can field queries for lookups. This would free up staff and possibly result in a daily effort to better organize the efforts of the Clerk/Register of Deeds genealogical service. 9 - Train staff to recognize genealogy as one of the "normal" and "necessary" functions which the Clerk/Register of deeds fully supports without question, and as a normal part of their jobs. This would be a major improvement and might be the most helpful in the end. Hope this helps, Dennis Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@potifos.com> To: <MIWASHTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:13 PM Subject: [MIWASHTE] County records: policy changes? > > Genealogists, I need your help! > > On January 1st, I take office as the new county clerk of Washtenaw County. > > As you know, Washtenaw County is regarded as a difficult county for > genealogy research. I want to change that, but I expect to face some > institutional inertia and perhaps opposition. Very likely I will hear > arguments that changes I propose are contrary to Michigan law. > > What I need is a list of those things which need to be changed in the > County Clerk's office. Some changes will probably be easy; others may > take some fighting for; still others may not be achievable. But I can't > even begin without knowing specifically what they are. > > I also need examples of other Michigan counties with policies more > friendly to genealogy. There are 83 county clerks in Michigan. I need to > know which ones are pro-genealogy and likely to be allies and resources > for helping make these changes. > > Also, I am planning to create a volunteer citizens advisory board or > committee for the Clerk-Register's office, and I want at least one of the > members to represent genealogy. If you are interested in this, please > send your information to me via email or postal mail. > > Further, I am always interested in comments, suggestions, and criticisms > on any aspect of the county clerk/register's office and my management of > it. Please feel free to contact me with any concerns which arise during > my term of office. > > Many thanks! > > Larry Kestenbaum > soon to take office as > Washtenaw County Clerk/Register of Deeds > > --- > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@potifos.com > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com > Mailing address: P.O. Box 2563, Ann Arbor MI 48106 > > >

Mr. Kestenbaum; Thank you for wanting to hear and help us researchers. Copies of death or marriage and birth, if they fall into the release time frame, for research--I would like to see "genealogy" non-certified copies be available, for a minimum fee --say $1.00 per copy-- if the researcher is in your office. If the request is made by mail; possibly a reduced fee from certified but still uncertified, would be nice. The searchable death/marriage that is on line--would like to see that push back further back in time (currently deaths are 1960-current). The possibility of "later" hours whether once a week; every other week or even once a month. Since the majority of people work during your open hours, it is almost impossible to go there. Again, thank you for considering the genealogy community. Marge Burkheiser