Trying to research the MITCHELL family. I have very little information. My GRANDFATHER: Lewis Ely Mitchell wife Nellie Mae {PRATER } MITCHELL. Born? Died about 1946 Born? Died about 1945 Both are buried at Ardmore,Ok. in Rose Hill cemetary Son's: Lewis Raymond { DOC } my father Bill Joe

Dear All, I am trying to find out more about the family of Daniel Mitchell a Stone Mason from Ireland & his wife Abigail Brown from Ohio. In the 1880 US Census they were living 4th Ward, Cedar Rapids, Linn, IOWA. Daniel was aged 50 and his parents were both from Ireland. Abigail was aged 40 and from OHIO, Her Father was from New Hampshire & Mother from PA. They had the following Children Robert M Mitchell, Age 17, from IOWA, Drygoods Clerk *Darwin L Mitchell, Age 15, from IOWA, Apprentice to Painter Josey Mitchell, Age 12, from Missouri Jennie I Mitchell, Age 10, from Missouri Nellie B Mitchell, Age 7, from Missouri Stella H Mitchell, Age 4, from Missouri * Darwin Mitchell was later in Chicago 1917 Chicago City Directory Darwin was at 4227 Washington Street address but in 1910 he is at 3213 Walnut. 1920 census daughters Abbey 22 and Charlotte age 19 are with them @ 4227 Washington Street. 1930 Us Census 4924 Lexington St. with Charles age 23 as a clerk and Edward age 26 who was in real estate they are listed as roomers Darwin is listed as a salesman. If you recognise any of this information. Please get in touch. Best wishes Thomas Peeke -- Thomas Peeke thomas@peeke.demon.co.uk or thomaspeeke@hotmail.com

This came through on the Jackson County, MO mail list. I thought I would share it with this list in case this person belonged to someone on the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John O'Brien" <JohnOBrien@kc.rr.com> To: <MOJACKSO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: [MOJACKSO] Margaret LARKIN d. 12 May 1915 - Kansas City, MO > LARKIN, MITCHELL > > > "The Kansas City Times" (Missouri) Friday, May 14, 1915 > > > DEATHS IN KANSAS CITY. > > Mrs. Margaret LARKIN, 72 years old, died at the home > of her daughter, Mrs. Thomas H. MITCHELL, 4012 Benton > Boulevard, Wednesday. The body was taken to Mitchell, Ind., > at 9 o'clock last night. > > > (I have no connection with this person but let me know if you found this > posting helpful.) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "schneck" <> > To: <johnobrien@kc.rr.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 12:31 PM > Subject: May 1915 KC deaths > > > > I am interested in seeing an obit/death notice for Margaret Larkin, May > > 1915, > > > > ==== MOJACKSO Mailing List ==== > If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Jackson Co., MO Mailing List, > use MOJACKSO-l-request@rootsweb.com or MOJACKSO-d-request@rootsweb.com if > you are on the Digest list. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I am looking for any information onThomas Edward Mitchell, married to lettie s. Jenkins. Lettie became a widow in 1941 or 42 in Norfolk, Virginia. They had two children, Robert Mitchell born 1919 and Nannie Lee Mitchell born 1923. Robert is still living, Nannie(Nancy) married Max Thompson and passed away 2001 in Anchorage, Alaska. Both Robert and Nannie were born at Christ Church, Virginia. Thank you. Please email Maxine at meav@gci.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: <MitchellAncestry@aol.com> To: <MITCHELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [MITCHELL] William Mitchell from Indiana, Parke County > > Barbra, > > I've posted it several times in the last year, had no conclusive response. > Your right, it wouldn't hurt to keep posting. > > My great grandfather, James D. Mitchell, born 1850 somewhere in Indiana? > He married Mary A. Coleman December 25, 1878, before moving to Michigan, Mary > was born in Ohio. > > 1880 James and Mary were living in Kalamazoo, Michigan, Kalamazoo County, > where they had their first born, William E. and James was a Blacksmith. > > About 1881 they moved to ?, Ohio and about 1883 they moved to Boyne Falls, > Michigan, Charlivoix County, where James had his own blacksmith shop. > > If anyone thinks they may have information on James D. Mitchell or his family > in Indiana, I would appreciate a E-mail. > > Thank You > M. Richard Mitchell > > > > > In a message dated 2/8/03 12:39:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jcbarbra@cs.com > writes: > > << Richard-- > > Why don't you post a message to the Mitchell List, giving the info you DO > know--names, dates, locations... Someone may connect with it. > > Do you have access to the 1880 census? I have it on CD, so if you don't, I > can do a lookup for you if you will give me the name and state if you know > it. Any spouse or children names always help to eliminate others of the > same > name. > > Good luck with your research. > > Barbra > >> > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > DO NOT POST NON-GENEALOGICAL MATERIALS TO THIS LIST. >

In a message dated 2/10/03 10:33:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, ntrump@juno.com writes: << I remember reading the same information about the drunk census taker, made me a little leary of all the information on the records. On one of my family the census taker took the information from the children and it wasnot correct. and have found 59 spellings on one of my ancestor's names. sounds normal ? >> Also, if the family was not at home when the census taker called, info was sometimes taken from neighbors, who did not always know the answer or who gave incorrect info.

Richard, That is good; I just want those who can't afford a subscription to know that 1880 is free. I have access to census through Heritage Quest myself. Happy Hunting, Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: <MitchellAncestry@aol.com> To: <MITCHELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [MITCHELL] William Mitchell from Indiana, Parke County > > Jeanette, > > I've been using the census image files on Ancestry dot com, it's a little > slow, but I think it's worth the money. > > Richard > > In a message dated 2/8/03 3:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > savasnia@comcast.net writes: > > << Anyone can have access to the 1880 census via Familysearch.com > > Jeanette >> > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please send an unsubscribe message to: Mitchell-L-request@rootsweb.com. If on digest, substitute a D for the L. >

Jeanette, I've been using the census image files on Ancestry dot com, it's a little slow, but I think it's worth the money. Richard In a message dated 2/8/03 3:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, savasnia@comcast.net writes: << Anyone can have access to the 1880 census via Familysearch.com Jeanette >>

Doris, Your right, hat could very well be a possibility that census taker made a mistake, that's why I was concerned about the middle initial R was after James name on 1 of 3 census. Everything else seemed matched, but to validate that I have the right family is going to be a task. I'm still searching in 1850 & 1860 for James D. Mitchell in Indiana counties, but it takes a lot of time when searching for a son under head of household. I'm trying to obtain all the information I can off the computer, before leaving California via Texas to do research in Indiana for the third time in 4 years. Regards, Richard In a message dated 2/8/03 1:39:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, MITCHDOR@aol.com writes: << I have found the Mitchell and Mitchel spelling in my family too, I think alot of times the name was spelled the way the census taker preferred to spell it. Doris >>

Barbra, I've posted it several times in the last year, had no conclusive response. Your right, it wouldn't hurt to keep posting. My great grandfather, James D. Mitchell, born 1850 somewhere in Indiana? He married Mary A. Coleman December 25, 1878, before moving to Michigan, Mary was born in Ohio. 1880 James and Mary were living in Kalamazoo, Michigan, Kalamazoo County, where they had their first born, William E. and James was a Blacksmith. About 1881 they moved to ?, Ohio and about 1883 they moved to Boyne Falls, Michigan, Charlivoix County, where James had his own blacksmith shop. If anyone thinks they may have information on James D. Mitchell or his family in Indiana, I would appreciate a E-mail. Thank You M. Richard Mitchell In a message dated 2/8/03 12:39:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jcbarbra@cs.com writes: << Richard-- Why don't you post a message to the Mitchell List, giving the info you DO know--names, dates, locations... Someone may connect with it. Do you have access to the 1880 census? I have it on CD, so if you don't, I can do a lookup for you if you will give me the name and state if you know it. Any spouse or children names always help to eliminate others of the same name. Good luck with your research. Barbra >>

I have had a hard time in trying to find Daniel Mitchell b. MS abt.1846 according to 1900 census in Madison Co, TN. Genealogy.com had his name as David Mitchel and only in tracing a son-in-law Wm Webb, married to daughter Ida, did I notice Daniel and wife Lucy (Butler) Mitchel b. abt 1857 TN, and recognized the children's names and bd's, and was I ever more thrilled?? I have tried to connect with him through Familysearch.org, nothing!!! Also tried to find him in 1850, MS and TN. TN is hard to do in 1850 as my source of viewing images does not allow me the priviledge, and there are many Mitchel/Mitchell heads of households in 1850 TN. Also, Daniel's mother may have been born AL. I still need any help to break through this brick wall. Belinda

Hello List, I am looking for my grandfather's family. I need information on my grandparents as well.My grandfather's Name is William Mercer(sp?) Mitchell, born April 17, 1879, died , June 13 1959, buried and died in Ms.Married (1) Mattie Nelson ,No Dates, (She died when my Dad was abt. 4 yrs. He was born abt 1908 -1914 not sure.)(2) wife Henrietta ? .born Feb. 17th. 1879 ,died. June, 13, 1946 in Ms.? calhoun county ,Ms. Other children Austin Mitchell b. 9/?/1899 ,d. 9/?/1975 John Doyle Mitchell b.Aug. 23, 1909 d. Aug. 1981 Lola Hickey Mitchell, no dates on her but lived in Mo. for several years.All the family lived in Ms. nearly all their lives around Calhoun County And Yelobusha County., Ms Those buried in Shilah Baptist church Yellobusha,County,are John Doyle., Austin and William and 2nd. wife's. Any help will be appreciated .Write me at mmd@pepperlink.netMs.is ---- Original Message ----- From: <Jcbarbra@cs.com> To: <MITCHELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 9:12 PM Subject: [MITCHELL] Re: {not a subscriber} William W. Mitchell and parents and children.... > In a message dated 2/8/03 6:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, dsmathome@msn.com > writes: > > << Hello list, > I just wanted everyone to know I found my William W. Mitchell > ,the one that many of my relation have searched for, for years..And I am > sending out to all you this information that I have found in a old Bible of > the Mitchell- Riley Family. > It reads: "My good will I bear to my children > I have this Holy Book at my decease-to my daughter, Sarah Riley and heirs.not > to be sold on any acct..Signed- J. B. Mitchell 4/13/1834. Ann Mitchell the > Grandmother" > > John B. Mitchell John B. Mitchell 1/22/1759-6/5/1842 > Ann Mitchell, his wife 2/1757-2/5/1840, buried Riley's graveyard > William Mitchell 11/7/1782 > John Mitchell 5/27/1784-9/3/1827 > Margaret Mitchell 1/25/1786- 3/15/1825 > Martha Me. G. Mitchell 11/27/1788-6/17/1795 > Sara Mitchell 8/7/1790- > Mary Mitchell 3/1/1792-5/27/1814 > Lani Mitchell 7/7/1795 > > *******Children's Marriages ****** > William Wilson Mitchell to Genny (Jane) Bamer 9/17/1804 > John Mitchell to Margaret Whitman 12/21/1808 > Margaret Mitchell to James Cromley 3/1/1806 > Mary Mitchell to Jacob Whitman 9/4/1813 > Sara Mitchell to William Riley 1/18/1816 > > *************Births of William W. Mitchell and Genny (Jane) Bamer****** > Eli Mitchell born 9/11/1805 > Mary Ann. Mitchell 4/9/1808 > M (or) Helena Mitchell 11/27/1811 > Susa Mitchell 6/14/1814 > Zachariah Mitchell 1/24/1817 > John Wesley Mitchell 4/14/1820 > William Wells Mitchell 3/15/1823 > > The Bible goes on to say: " I give and bequeath this Holy Bible to my > grandson Eli Mitchell, son or elder son, William W. Mitchell , for him, his > heirs forever not to be sold out of the family. Witness my hand. 9/8/1823 > J.B. Mitchell > Then it goes on to say: > " I allow and give this Bible to my daughter ,Sarah Riley". The LWT found > loose in Bible of John B. Mitchell of Edgefield District ,S.C. names > daughter Sarah Riley, executrix,8/4/1841 > > **************************************************************************** ** > > ***** > Notes about John B. Mitchell : > He was found in the files of the Abstracts of the Revolutionary Pension > Files. Number R7276, PA. Line," It says Soldier was born January 22, 1759 at > Bristol, England and landed in America on April 1, 1772 at Philadelphia, PA. > and lived there at enlistment and after his service he settled in Mecklenburg > where he taught school until 1789, then he moved to Newberry District, South > Carolina. Solder was also a Minister in the Methodist Church. Soldier married > in 1782 (wife not named). Soldier was dec'd in 1852,a daughter Sarah Riley of > Edgefield District in 1852 was only surviving child and was the only child > named." > > **************************************************************************** ** > > ***** > I believe that Sarah and William were the only children left of John B. > Mitchell at the end of his life, because according to the Census , William > was living with his son Robert D. Mitchell in the 1860 census in > Barboursville, Kentucky. > I hope this helps someone else connect to their Mitchell line. Let me know, > Happy Hunting , Donna > >> > > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator, please send a message to: Mitchell-admin@rootsweb.com. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

In a message dated 2/8/03 6:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, dsmathome@msn.com writes: << Hello list, I just wanted everyone to know I found my William W. Mitchell ,the one that many of my relation have searched for, for years..And I am sending out to all you this information that I have found in a old Bible of the Mitchell- Riley Family. It reads: "My good will I bear to my children I have this Holy Book at my decease-to my daughter, Sarah Riley and heirs.not to be sold on any acct..Signed- J. B. Mitchell 4/13/1834. Ann Mitchell the Grandmother" John B. Mitchell John B. Mitchell 1/22/1759-6/5/1842 Ann Mitchell, his wife 2/1757-2/5/1840, buried Riley's graveyard William Mitchell 11/7/1782 John Mitchell 5/27/1784-9/3/1827 Margaret Mitchell 1/25/1786- 3/15/1825 Martha Me. G. Mitchell 11/27/1788-6/17/1795 Sara Mitchell 8/7/1790- Mary Mitchell 3/1/1792-5/27/1814 Lani Mitchell 7/7/1795 *******Children's Marriages ****** William Wilson Mitchell to Genny (Jane) Bamer 9/17/1804 John Mitchell to Margaret Whitman 12/21/1808 Margaret Mitchell to James Cromley 3/1/1806 Mary Mitchell to Jacob Whitman 9/4/1813 Sara Mitchell to William Riley 1/18/1816 *************Births of William W. Mitchell and Genny (Jane) Bamer****** Eli Mitchell born 9/11/1805 Mary Ann. Mitchell 4/9/1808 M (or) Helena Mitchell 11/27/1811 Susa Mitchell 6/14/1814 Zachariah Mitchell 1/24/1817 John Wesley Mitchell 4/14/1820 William Wells Mitchell 3/15/1823 The Bible goes on to say: " I give and bequeath this Holy Bible to my grandson Eli Mitchell, son or elder son, William W. Mitchell , for him, his heirs forever not to be sold out of the family. Witness my hand. 9/8/1823 J.B. Mitchell Then it goes on to say: " I allow and give this Bible to my daughter ,Sarah Riley". The LWT found loose in Bible of John B. Mitchell of Edgefield District ,S.C. names daughter Sarah Riley, executrix,8/4/1841 ****************************************************************************** ***** Notes about John B. Mitchell : He was found in the files of the Abstracts of the Revolutionary Pension Files. Number R7276, PA. Line," It says Soldier was born January 22, 1759 at Bristol, England and landed in America on April 1, 1772 at Philadelphia, PA. and lived there at enlistment and after his service he settled in Mecklenburg where he taught school until 1789, then he moved to Newberry District, South Carolina. Solder was also a Minister in the Methodist Church. Soldier married in 1782 (wife not named). Soldier was dec'd in 1852,a daughter Sarah Riley of Edgefield District in 1852 was only surviving child and was the only child named." ****************************************************************************** ***** I believe that Sarah and William were the only children left of John B. Mitchell at the end of his life, because according to the Census , William was living with his son Robert D. Mitchell in the 1860 census in Barboursville, Kentucky. I hope this helps someone else connect to their Mitchell line. Let me know, Happy Hunting , Donna >>

Anyone can have access to the 1880 census via Familysearch.com Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jcbarbra@cs.com> To: <MITCHELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [MITCHELL] William Mitchell from Indiana, Parke County > Richard-- > > Why don't you post a message to the Mitchell List, giving the info you DO > know--names, dates, locations... Someone may connect with it. > > Do you have access to the 1880 census? I have it on CD, so if you don't, I > can do a lookup for you if you will give me the name and state if you know > it. Any spouse or children names always help to eliminate others of the same > name. > > Good luck with your research. > > Barbra > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please send an unsubscribe message to: Mitchell-L-request@rootsweb.com. If on digest, substitute a D for the L. >

I have found the Mitchell and Mitchel spelling in my family too, I think alot of times the name was spelled the way the census taker preferred to spell it. Doris

Richard-- Why don't you post a message to the Mitchell List, giving the info you DO know--names, dates, locations... Someone may connect with it. Do you have access to the 1880 census? I have it on CD, so if you don't, I can do a lookup for you if you will give me the name and state if you know it. Any spouse or children names always help to eliminate others of the same name. Good luck with your research. Barbra

Barbra, Thanks for the info, I'm not a pro at this, only been researching my ancestors for five years and still learning. I appreciate all the help I can get. I ran into a Mitchell that had been listed on the census in February and again in August in a different places in the same year. I reported it in the commit section of the ancestry census index. One of my ancestors immigrated to Illinois from Germany in 1878 then to Michigan. In her younger years she reported on the census she was born in Germany and couldn't read or write, later years she reported she was born in Illinois and could read and write. I knew her as a boy in the 40s, she knew she was born in Germany and I knew she couldn't read and only could write her name. She told me, "Germans didn't believe it was necessary for females to attend school, they needed to learn household duties". Of course, at that time I wasn't aware what was reported on the census, so I can only guess about her rationale. I'm hoping by E-mailing census information that aligns with my ancestors on the Mitchell List, that someone may be out there that has researched the family, which could help me validate my ancestor. Regards, Richard ___________________________________ In a message dated 2/7/03 12:28:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jcbarbra@cs.com writes: << In addition to LiveDove's explanation, some of the census takers themselves were semiliterate. A number of years ago I read in a census index, (think it was OH, but can't remember the year), a disclaimer to the effect that the census taker was drunk when he took the census, so proceed at your own risk. In one of the censuses, my great-grandfather is listed in two different counties. They are adjacent, so I don't know if one of the census takers just strayed over the county line, or if the family moved between one survey and the other. Also, my grandfather's name which was Joab, was listed as Job. Censuses are very helpful, but are NOT infallible. Use them as an information source for further research. Barbra >>

I remember reading the same information about the drunk census taker, made me a little leary of all the information on the records. On one of my family the census taker took the information from the children and it wasnot correct. and have found 59 spellings on one of my ancestor's names. sounds normal ? On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:24:12 EST Jcbarbra@cs.com writes: > In addition to LiveDove's explanation, some of the census takers > themselves > were semiliterate. A number of years ago I read in a census index, > (think it > was OH, but can't remember the year), a disclaimer to the effect > that the > census taker was drunk when he took the census, so proceed at your > own risk. > > In one of the censuses, my great-grandfather is listed in two > different > counties. They are adjacent, so I don't know if one of the census > takers > just strayed over the county line, or if the family moved between > one survey > and the other. Also, my grandfather's name which was Joab, was > listed as Job. > > Censuses are very helpful, but are NOT infallible. Use them as an > information source for further research. > > Barbra > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > DO NOT POST NON-GENEALOGICAL MATERIALS TO THIS LIST. > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com

In addition to LiveDove's explanation, some of the census takers themselves were semiliterate. A number of years ago I read in a census index, (think it was OH, but can't remember the year), a disclaimer to the effect that the census taker was drunk when he took the census, so proceed at your own risk. In one of the censuses, my great-grandfather is listed in two different counties. They are adjacent, so I don't know if one of the census takers just strayed over the county line, or if the family moved between one survey and the other. Also, my grandfather's name which was Joab, was listed as Job. Censuses are very helpful, but are NOT infallible. Use them as an information source for further research. Barbra

All: This has been very helpful ot me as well since I am finding different spellings for both first and last names. Richard: I have been looking for an Anna Mitchell who married Alex Kegg for some time. The age seems about right. Do you have any additional information about her? ----- Original Message ----- From: <MitchellAncestry@aol.com> To: <MITCHELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [MITCHELL] William Mitchell from Indiana, Parke County > > Shirley, > > Thanks for the info, it's appreciated. > > I need to validate, that James is the same person I'm looking for. > > Regards, > Richard > __________________ > > In a message dated 2/7/03 1:42:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Livedove@aol.com > writes: > > << Richard, > If your MITCHELL wasn't able to read or write and the names were written as > the enumerator 'heard' them pronounced. Hence, MITCHELL, MITCHEL, > MITSHELL,..etc. > I have found my mother's name written several different ways. I don't know > why as the whole family was literate. I guess no one thought to check the > spelling that the > enumerator wrote down. > My husband's ancestor had 4 different spellings as he could not read/write. > His wife left a good paper trail because it took her 3 years to get her > pension. She > had to get several people to testify/write that they knew this man was the > same person. > Sometimes initials are hard to read if the handwriting isn't very good or if > it is quite fancy with a lot of loops and curves. I have found ages varied > also. One man had PA as to where born, next time was Un Known, and the third > time was Kentucky. > This is the one that married 3 times and all wives named Mary. > > There are several wiser peoples on this list, maybe they can help you also. > Shirley Rosecrans > volunteer; Random Acts Of Genealogical Kindness" > http://www.raogk.org/ > "in helping others, we shall help ourselves, > for whatever good we give out completes the circle > and comes back to us. " > > >> > > > ==== MITCHELL Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please send an unsubscribe message to: Mitchell-L-request@rootsweb.com. If on digest, substitute a D for the L. >

Shirley, Thanks for the info, it's appreciated. I need to validate, that James is the same person I'm looking for. Regards, Richard __________________ In a message dated 2/7/03 1:42:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Livedove@aol.com writes: << Richard, If your MITCHELL wasn't able to read or write and the names were written as the enumerator 'heard' them pronounced. Hence, MITCHELL, MITCHEL, MITSHELL,..etc. I have found my mother's name written several different ways. I don't know why as the whole family was literate. I guess no one thought to check the spelling that the enumerator wrote down. My husband's ancestor had 4 different spellings as he could not read/write. His wife left a good paper trail because it took her 3 years to get her pension. She had to get several people to testify/write that they knew this man was the same person. Sometimes initials are hard to read if the handwriting isn't very good or if it is quite fancy with a lot of loops and curves. I have found ages varied also. One man had PA as to where born, next time was Un Known, and the third time was Kentucky. This is the one that married 3 times and all wives named Mary. There are several wiser peoples on this list, maybe they can help you also. Shirley Rosecrans volunteer; Random Acts Of Genealogical Kindness" http://www.raogk.org/ "in helping others, we shall help ourselves, for whatever good we give out completes the circle and comes back to us. " >>