Hello Ann, Karen, et al; I think that sometimes things that happened a hundred years ago or so went unexplained, especially when it came to the mentally infirm. It is entirely possible that there was no obit, due in part to the 'scandal' and 'stigma' that would be attached to the family by the obit itself. Very few upstanding families would want it to be commonly known that there was something 'wrong' with the family, so to speak. To a lessor extent, we have, in the recent past, done some of the same things. IE. I remember that as a kid, if a woman was pregnant, that 'pregnant' wouldn't be said outloud, especially if the woman was unwed. It would be said in a whispered "She's 'PG'". There are many things that could have happened in any State Hospital that would not be allowed out in the 'free world' such as labodimies (sp?) and shock treatments, to name a couple. Those things happened on a regular basis. That was normal treatment to help to keep a patient under control. So as to the accidental asphyxiation, yes it could have been accidental. Maybe the home used some kind of gas to settle down patients that were getting worked up or some such as that. The dosage could have been too great and the patient died. No problem, it would just be listed as an accident. There may not be any other record of the fact. It may be possible that a patient was put in a sound proof room and all the cracks under the door, etc., be plugged so as to not hear the patient and the room could have been depleted of oxygen by simply breathing. Remember, Mental illness was not dealt with the same then as it is now. It has only been since about the end of WWII that we have changed the way that we look at the disorder. Finally we can accept mental illness for what it really is, an illness. I am not stating that this actually happened in Pontiac State Hospital. But if it did, it could be that the prevailing attitude at the time dismissed the importantance of what really happened and just let it get lost in the paperwork, so to speak. Have a good day, Dan Harriman Orange, Texas At 14:49 09/17/2003, you wrote: >Karen, > >Good to hear from you. Looks doubtful I would be allowed access to the >records She is my husband's great aunt. > >The Oakland County Pioneer Library in Pontiac did not have a copy of an >obituary for Harriet. I never searched further. > >I was always curious how an age 61 woman who died 9 Sept 1913 could have >been accidentally asphyxiated. Maybe gas fumes or ???? > >It was suggested I check at the Oakland County Courthouse for coroner's >inquest. This sounds reasonable. If she died without medical attendance >one would think their would have been an inquest. I will do this next time >I am in Michigan unless I can get one of other Lockwood researchers to do >it for me. Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. > >Thank you, >Ann in New Mexico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karen Krugman > To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:10 AM > Subject: RE: [MIOAKLAN] Pontiac State Hospital > > Mary, > > The death of Harriet Lockwood Johnston/Johnson is listed as died at the > Pontiac State Hospital Sep. 1913 at age 61 of accidental asphyxiation. > > Thinking it odd that a person age 61 cause of death would be accidental > asphyxiation. > > I inquired at the Oakland County Pioneer Library in Pontiac if they had a > record of people dying at the Michigan State Hospital (mental), Leslie said > that info would be at the Michigan State Library in Lansing. She also said > that they often wouldn't give out any info in the case of the insane. > > If you should learn how to obtain the records, would you let me know? This > cause of death has me curious. > > Regards, > Ann in New Mexico . If at first you don't succeed, maybe you shouldn't try sky diving! dit dit

Hi Dan, Thank you for taking the time to give some ideas of what might have happened in 1913 in Pontiac. I agree with the family not mentioning it. My husband lived in Birmingham until he was grown and went into the military and never knew he had a great aunt Harriet. Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Harriman To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [MIOAKLAN] Pontiac State Hospital Hello Ann, Karen, et al; I think that sometimes things that happened a hundred years ago or so went unexplained, especially when it came to the mentally infirm. It is entirely possible that there was no obit, due in part to the 'scandal' and 'stigma' that would be attached to the family by the obit itself. Very few upstanding families would want it to be commonly known that there was something 'wrong' with the family, so to speak. To a lessor extent, we have, in the recent past, done some of the same things. IE. I remember that as a kid, if a woman was pregnant, that 'pregnant' wouldn't be said outloud, especially if the woman was unwed. It would be said in a whispered "She's 'PG'". There are many things that could have happened in any State Hospital that would not be allowed out in the 'free world' such as labodimies (sp?) and shock treatments, to name a couple. Those things happened on a regular basis. That was normal treatment to help to keep a patient under control. So as to the accidental asphyxiation, yes it could have been accidental. Maybe the home used some kind of gas to settle down patients that were getting worked up or some such as that. The dosage could have been too great and the patient died. No problem, it would just be listed as an accident. There may not be any other record of the fact. It may be possible that a patient was put in a sound proof room and all the cracks under the door, etc., be plugged so as to not hear the patient and the room could have been depleted of oxygen by simply breathing. Remember, Mental illness was not dealt with the same then as it is now. It has only been since about the end of WWII that we have changed the way that we look at the disorder. Finally we can accept mental illness for what it really is, an illness. I am not stating that this actually happened in Pontiac State Hospital. But if it did, it could be that the prevailing attitude at the time dismissed the importantance of what really happened and just let it get lost in the paperwork, so to speak. Have a good day, Dan Harriman Orange, Texas At 14:49 09/17/2003, you wrote: >Karen, > >Good to hear from you. Looks doubtful I would be allowed access to the >records She is my husband's great aunt. > >The Oakland County Pioneer Library in Pontiac did not have a copy of an >obituary for Harriet. I never searched further. > >I was always curious how an age 61 woman who died 9 Sept 1913 could have >been accidentally asphyxiated. Maybe gas fumes or ???? > >It was suggested I check at the Oakland County Courthouse for coroner's >inquest. This sounds reasonable. If she died without medical attendance >one would think their would have been an inquest. I will do this next time >I am in Michigan unless I can get one of other Lockwood researchers to do >it for me. Sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. > >Thank you, >Ann in New Mexico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karen Krugman > To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:10 AM > Subject: RE: [MIOAKLAN] Pontiac State Hospital > > Mary, > > The death of Harriet Lockwood Johnston/Johnson is listed as died at the > Pontiac State Hospital Sep. 1913 at age 61 of accidental asphyxiation. > > Thinking it odd that a person age 61 cause of death would be accidental > asphyxiation. > > I inquired at the Oakland County Pioneer Library in Pontiac if they had a > record of people dying at the Michigan State Hospital (mental), Leslie said > that info would be at the Michigan State Library in Lansing. She also said > that they often wouldn't give out any info in the case of the insane. > > If you should learn how to obtain the records, would you let me know? This > cause of death has me curious. > > Regards, > Ann in New Mexico . If at first you don't succeed, maybe you shouldn't try sky diving! dit dit ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237