I would like to follow up on this cemetary situation. What documentation will I need to prove lineage to gain these plots? Kathy Campbell DKCampbell@comcast.net

I would also like to know what an out of state person needs to do. We have 3 lots in Roselawn in Berkely MI. We tried to sell them to Roselawn but they didn't want them. Thank you, Ann in New Mexico USA -----Original Message----- From: David & Kathy Campbell [mailto:dkcampbell@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:29 AM To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MIOAKLAN] Re: MIOAKLAN-D Digest V03 #81 I would like to follow up on this cemetary situation. What documentation will I need to prove lineage to gain these plots? Kathy Campbell DKCampbell@comcast.net ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Ken & All: There was article on the subject of unused graves in the Lansing State Journal either July 6th or the Sunday before that. As I recall it was on the front page of one of the sections of the LSJ. You might find that particular edition of the LSJ by searching www.mlive.com/ Just a suggestion, mind you. I just tried it quickly & I could not find a reference to the Lansing paper. Richard Leon Herrick RLH:mtf:20030710 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth D. Johnson" <kenjohnsontroymi@hotmail.com> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [MIOAKLAN] MICHIGAN CEMETERIES/LANSING MAY RECLAIM UNUSED GRAVESITES > Jean, > Is this article on line? > I think it would be helpful if we could all read it. > > Thanks, > Ken > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JEAN PAYTON" <jeanpayton@earthlink.net> > To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:22 PM > Subject: [MIOAKLAN] MICHIGAN CEMETERIES/LANSING MAY RECLAIM UNUSED GRAVESITES > > > > Dear Listers: > > > > Some of you may receive this letter more than once if you are on more than > > one county List in Michigan. I apologize for any inconvience this may cause > > you. I believe we all should be made aware of what is beginning to become a > > problem with our cemeteries through out Michigan. > > > > Yesterday, Detroit News Metro/State Section carried a news article about the > > City of Lansing wanting to reclaim thousand of unused gravesites so that > > they may resell them to bring money into their government. As the City of > > Jackson, Michigan has already done this and has netted them three hundred > > thousand dollars, we as descendants of the families who are buried in > > Michigan Cemeteries need to stand up as one to put a stop to this unlawful > > event. > > > > Yes, we have many old and historical cemeteries through out Michigan and its > > many counties, cities, towns, villages but I do not believe that any of > > these governments have the right to take back what your ancestors paid for > > with their blood, sweat, and tears. Our ancestors paid for these graves to > > be used by our families, not to be taken back from the descendants of these > > people who paid for these graves. > > > > Yes, families move and shift around the country and thus we leave unused > > grave sites but I believe that these unused sites should remain in the > > families of the people who are buried in these plots that have unused sites. > > I own plots in three different cemeteries in the State of Michigan and since > > I hold title to them that has been passed down from my great grandparents, > > grandparents, and parents does not give the city, town, county, or state > > the right to confiscate them to resell them at their gain. There is no way > > that my husband and I will utilize all of these gravesites but since I have > > the titles to theses plots I intend handing them down to my children to be > > used after our deaths and burial. > > > > In order to keep from having this event occur anywhere in our State, we as > > the family historians and genealogists need to stand up and voice our > > opinions and let these governments know that we won't stand for this > > thievery. We need to contact the Michigan Governor and the Senators and the > > House Representatives, the county executives, city mayors to let them know > > that we are going to protect our ancestoral burial sites from them. > > > > So what I am asking is for help here. With each one of us contacting the > > cemeteries in which your loved ones were laid to rest find out if there are > > unused spaces and find out how to go about getting the titles to these plots > > so that the government cannot take them and then resell them at inflated > > prices back to the public. > > > > Yes, the City of Lansing states they they are going to search for > > descendants but they already are in financial trouble and therefore could > > not afford to research and search out the owners or descendants of these > > family plots as it would cost a small fortune. As we all know the > > government states they will do one thing and they do entirely a different > > thing. > > > > Your ancestors that date back to the beginning of the State of Michigan only > > paid a few dollars for these plots which many hold 8, 10, 12 sites in each > > plot but it was their hard earned money not the governments money taht paid > > for these plots. Cemeteries are sacred ground and should not be desecrated > > by anyone including the governments of these cities, towns, villages, > > counties, and or State. Yes, our ancestors may have only paid 30.00-50.00 > > per plot but the going prices for these same lots today can bring in as much > > as four thousand dollars or more depending on where they are at. Checking > > the Want Ads this a.m. where I live the cheapest lots were going for > > $2,345.00 each. So you see the government will really be making a killing on > > these unused plots that our ancestors paid for and they want to take them > > away from the family descendants. What will happen if you live out of state > > and have not been contacted and a family member dies and you are going to > > bury them in the family plot only to find out that it has been sold out from > > under you without your permission to do this? > > > > So please list members write letters, email them, write to the newspapers to > > the governor and the senators, and representatives, county executives, > > mayors and let them know we are not going to allow this to go any further > > and also make the City of Jackson return the monies they made off of the > > resale of these private plots. I am including email addresses in which you > > can write to the two major newspapers in Michigan and I am also giving you > > email addresses for other government officials. > > > > To write to the newspapers: > > > > letters@freepress.com > > letteers@detnews.com > > www.LSJ.com click on the website and then click on the "contact us" and > > write your letters. Lansing State Journal > > > > Write to your local and county newspapers, let them know how you feel about > > what these governments are trying to do. Protect your cemeteries and your > > ancestral burial sites from these thieves before it is too late and they > > destroy them all because of their greediness. > > > > Write to the Governor of Michigan Janet Granholm by going to > > www.michigan.gov then register your email address and then click on Online > > Forms and Feedback and then write your letter. To address your letters to > > the Senators and House members address it like this JohnDoe@house.mi.gov > > putting the name of your house representative in place of John Doe. For the > > Senate you address is as JohnDoe@senate.michigan.gov putting your state > > senators name in place of John Doe. write to your county executive, mayors > > in the same way. If you want to fax a letter to the Governor of Michigan > > here is the number 1-517-373-3400 > > > > Lets get this out in the open so that everyone knows what is going on. We > > need to defend our ancestors final resting places and to retain them as they > > are now and not allow the government to sell them off. If we let them get > > away with this this time what will they do next? Dig up the bones and dump > > them in a garbage dump because they will stand to get more moeny from > > reselling these plots. I say NO! Dont' let them do this. > > Jean Payton > > > > > > > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C34708.52BE0080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes this articel is on line go to www.detnews.com and then click on the right side of the page "Metro/State and when the page comes up go to the right side of thepage and scroll down to where it says "Back Issues" and type in July 09. this will bring up yesterdays page and then scroll down the center of the page to where it says "Lansing may reclaim thousand of gravesites." I have included the article here in this email as an attachment. Jean Payton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth D. Johnson" <kenjohnsontroymi@hotmail.com> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [MIOAKLAN] MICHIGAN CEMETERIES/LANSING MAY RECLAIM UNUSED GRAVESITES > Jean, > Is this article on line? > I think it would be helpful if we could all read it. > > Thanks, > Ken > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JEAN PAYTON" <jeanpayton@earthlink.net> > To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:22 PM > Subject: [MIOAKLAN] MICHIGAN CEMETERIES/LANSING MAY RECLAIM UNUSED GRAVESITES > > > > Dear Listers: > > > > Some of you may receive this letter more than once if you are on more than > > one county List in Michigan. I apologize for any inconvience this may cause > > you. I believe we all should be made aware of what is beginning to become a > > problem with our cemeteries through out Michigan. > > > > Yesterday, Detroit News Metro/State Section carried a news article about the > > City of Lansing wanting to reclaim thousand of unused gravesites so that > > they may resell them to bring money into their government. As the City of > > Jackson, Michigan has already done this and has netted them three hundred > > thousand dollars, we as descendants of the families who are buried in > > Michigan Cemeteries need to stand up as one to put a stop to this unlawful > > event. > > > > Yes, we have many old and historical cemeteries through out Michigan and its > > many counties, cities, towns, villages but I do not believe that any of > > these governments have the right to take back what your ancestors paid for > > with their blood, sweat, and tears. Our ancestors paid for these graves to > > be used by our families, not to be taken back from the descendants of these > > people who paid for these graves. > > > > Yes, families move and shift around the country and thus we leave unused > > grave sites but I believe that these unused sites should remain in the > > families of the people who are buried in these plots that have unused sites. > > I own plots in three different cemeteries in the State of Michigan and since > > I hold title to them that has been passed down from my great grandparents, > > grandparents, and parents does not give the city, town, county, or state > > the right to confiscate them to resell them at their gain. There is no way > > that my husband and I will utilize all of these gravesites but since I have > > the titles to theses plots I intend handing them down to my children to be > > used after our deaths and burial. > > > > In order to keep from having this event occur anywhere in our State, we as > > the family historians and genealogists need to stand up and voice our > > opinions and let these governments know that we won't stand for this > > thievery. We need to contact the Michigan Governor and the Senators and the > > House Representatives, the county executives, city mayors to let them know > > that we are going to protect our ancestoral burial sites from them. > > > > So what I am asking is for help here. With each one of us contacting the > > cemeteries in which your loved ones were laid to rest find out if there are > > unused spaces and find out how to go about getting the titles to these plots > > so that the government cannot take them and then resell them at inflated > > prices back to the public. > > > > Yes, the City of Lansing states they they are going to search for > > descendants but they already are in financial trouble and therefore could > > not afford to research and search out the owners or descendants of these > > family plots as it would cost a small fortune. As we all know the > > government states they will do one thing and they do entirely a different > > thing. > > > > Your ancestors that date back to the beginning of the State of Michigan only > > paid a few dollars for these plots which many hold 8, 10, 12 sites in each > > plot but it was their hard earned money not the governments money taht paid > > for these plots. Cemeteries are sacred ground and should not be desecrated > > by anyone including the governments of these cities, towns, villages, > > counties, and or State. Yes, our ancestors may have only paid 30.00-50.00 > > per plot but the going prices for these same lots today can bring in as much > > as four thousand dollars or more depending on where they are at. Checking > > the Want Ads this a.m. where I live the cheapest lots were going for > > $2,345.00 each. So you see the government will really be making a killing on > > these unused plots that our ancestors paid for and they want to take them > > away from the family descendants. What will happen if you live out of state > > and have not been contacted and a family member dies and you are going to > > bury them in the family plot only to find out that it has been sold out from > > under you without your permission to do this? > > > > So please list members write letters, email them, write to the newspapers to > > the governor and the senators, and representatives, county executives, > > mayors and let them know we are not going to allow this to go any further > > and also make the City of Jackson return the monies they made off of the > > resale of these private plots. I am including email addresses in which you > > can write to the two major newspapers in Michigan and I am also giving you > > email addresses for other government officials. > > > > To write to the newspapers: > > > > letters@freepress.com > > letteers@detnews.com > > www.LSJ.com click on the website and then click on the "contact us" and > > write your letters. Lansing State Journal > > > > Write to your local and county newspapers, let them know how you feel about > > what these governments are trying to do. Protect your cemeteries and your > > ancestral burial sites from these thieves before it is too late and they > > destroy them all because of their greediness. > > > > Write to the Governor of Michigan Janet Granholm by going to > > www.michigan.gov then register your email address and then click on Online > > Forms and Feedback and then write your letter. To address your letters to > > the Senators and House members address it like this JohnDoe@house.mi.gov > > putting the name of your house representative in place of John Doe. For the > > Senate you address is as JohnDoe@senate.michigan.gov putting your state > > senators name in place of John Doe. write to your county executive, mayors > > in the same way. If you want to fax a letter to the Governor of Michigan > > here is the number 1-517-373-3400 > > > > Lets get this out in the open so that everyone knows what is going on. We > > need to defend our ancestors final resting places and to retain them as they > > are now and not allow the government to sell them off. If we let them get > > away with this this time what will they do next? Dig up the bones and dump > > them in a garbage dump because they will stand to get more moeny from > > reselling these plots. I say NO! Dont' let them do this. > > Jean Payton > > > > > > > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C34708.52BE0080 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites - 07-09-03.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites - 07-09-03.txt" Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites - 07/09/03 =20 Latest Metro/State reports =20 =20 Homepage Search CyberSurveys Horoscope Lottery Michigan's Best Weather Staff News Talk Autos Talk Big 10 Talk High Schools Lions Talk Pistons Talk Wings Talk Tech Talk Tiger Talk Weight-loss Autos Insider Consumer Joyrides Business Careers Money & Life Census Columnists Commuting Detroit History Editorials Metro / State Livingston Macomb Oakland Wayne On Detroit Nation / World Obituaries Death Notices Politics / Govt. Real Estate Religion Schools Special Reports Technology Sports Insider Lions/NFL Red Wings/NHL Pistons/NBA Shock/WNBA Tigers/Baseball MSU U-M More Colleges Golf Guide High Schools Motor Sports Outdoors More Sports Scoreboards Entertainment Casino Guide Movie Finder Restaurants TV Listings Crossword Home Destinations Hunt & Fish On the Water Recreation Homestyle home Decorating Eats & Drinks Recipe Box Gardening Health Home Improvement Home Life Home Tech Wine Report Sports Red Wings Lions Autos Joyrides News History Previous Story Next Story =20 Wednesday, July 9, 2003 Becky Shink / Associated Press With owners named Amos, Olive and Horatio, it is not = surprising to=20 find forgotten, empty grave sites in Lansing. The city may = reclaim=20 the abandones sites and sell some to bolster revenues. Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites Lots that haven't seen burials since late 1800s could be resold = by city By Associated Press Comment on this story Send this story to a friend Get Home Delivery=20 LANSING -- Thousands of unused grave sites scattered throughout = 190=20 acres of Lansing cemeteries could mean revenue if the sites are=20 reclaimed by the city.=20 But that's no easy task.=20 Some cemetery lots, each holding 10 grave sites, haven't seen = burials=20 since the late 1800s.=20 Many owners bought other sites or likely don't know about their=20 inheritance.=20 "It used to be that you were born, grew up and died in the same=20 community," said John McComb, the city's budget supervisor. "Now = we go=20 away to college and find our way in the world."=20 The city would need to dedicate a staffer to go through = yellowing=20 ledgers to decipher the owners' names, handwritten in cursive. A = parks=20 employee has been going through the books on her down time.=20 The older ledgers don't list addresses for the owners, just the = date it=20 was purchased and the price along with the family members buried = there.=20 Not all of the grave sites could be resold: Some owners placed = large=20 family monuments in the center of the lot, which potential = buyers may=20 not want to be buried near.=20 The city must decide whether it's worth the time and money to = document=20 all of the possible abandoned sites and then go to circuit court = to=20 reclaim them.=20 If Lansing starts the process, relatives of original owners, who = paid=20 $30 to $50 for the 10-grave lots in the late 1800s, would be = given a=20 chance to claim the sites or resell them.=20 Lansing isn't the first city to consider such a move.=20 Jackson, about 40 miles to the south, reclaimed about 10,000 = cemetery=20 sites in the late 1980s and made about $300,000 from resales.=20 Jackson officials argued that because the lot owners weren't = paying an=20 annual fee, they could reclaim the grave sites.=20 Lansing would have to use a different legal argument because it = never=20 charged an annual fee. City attorney Jim Smiertka said the city = deeded=20 the lots to buyers, like it was real estate.=20 Smiertka said the city could ask a judge to hold a hearing to = determine=20 the owner.=20 The judge could set up a process the city would follow to find = the=20 owners, such as publishing lists of names in local newspapers. = And if no=20 one came forward, the grave sites would revert to the city.=20 Previous Story Next Story =20 Marketplace Detroit Browse the Classifieds New & Used Cars Employment Homes or Apartments Shop Online Home Delivery Center Start home delivery Renew subscription Customer service Metro/State=20 Metro/State index for Wednesday, July 9, 2003=20 Judge tosses key Webber evidence SS guard's capture ends secret life in Metro suburb Justice Dept. hunts Nazis Standoff suspect's home burns Ex-lawmaker, wife escape from house blaze Readers decry criticism aimed at airport district, Detroit police Woman hits home run at Dearborn golf event Benton Harbor police cleared Teen fatally shot in Detroit garage Vets would get dibs on state jobs Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites Michigan Briefs Vessel passages Bitterness, relief follow road death trial Serial rape suspect held 4,000 still without electricity Trooper killed in Fremont PCBs detected in waterways=20 Sections for this date=20 Wednesday, July 9, 2003 Select indexHome PageAutos InsiderAutos ConsumerBusinessMoney & = = LifeCareersCensusCommutingEditorialsMetro/StateLivingstonMacombOaklandWay= neDetroitNation/WorldObituariesPoliticsReal=20 = EstateReligionSchoolsTechnology..........SportsLions/NFLPistons/NBARed=20 Wings/NHLShock/WNBATigers/BaesballMSUU-MMore CollegesGolf = GuideHigh=20 SchoolsMotor SportsOutdoorsMore=20 Sports...........EntertainmentDecoratingEats & = DrinksGardeningHealthHome=20 ImprovementHome LifeHome Tech=20 =20 Copyright =A9 2003 The Detroit News. Use of this site indicates your agreement to the Terms of Service = (updated=20 12/19/2002).=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C34708.52BE0080--

Jean, Is this article on line? I think it would be helpful if we could all read it. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEAN PAYTON" <jeanpayton@earthlink.net> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:22 PM Subject: [MIOAKLAN] MICHIGAN CEMETERIES/LANSING MAY RECLAIM UNUSED GRAVESITES > Dear Listers: > > Some of you may receive this letter more than once if you are on more than > one county List in Michigan. I apologize for any inconvience this may cause > you. I believe we all should be made aware of what is beginning to become a > problem with our cemeteries through out Michigan. > > Yesterday, Detroit News Metro/State Section carried a news article about the > City of Lansing wanting to reclaim thousand of unused gravesites so that > they may resell them to bring money into their government. As the City of > Jackson, Michigan has already done this and has netted them three hundred > thousand dollars, we as descendants of the families who are buried in > Michigan Cemeteries need to stand up as one to put a stop to this unlawful > event. > > Yes, we have many old and historical cemeteries through out Michigan and its > many counties, cities, towns, villages but I do not believe that any of > these governments have the right to take back what your ancestors paid for > with their blood, sweat, and tears. Our ancestors paid for these graves to > be used by our families, not to be taken back from the descendants of these > people who paid for these graves. > > Yes, families move and shift around the country and thus we leave unused > grave sites but I believe that these unused sites should remain in the > families of the people who are buried in these plots that have unused sites. > I own plots in three different cemeteries in the State of Michigan and since > I hold title to them that has been passed down from my great grandparents, > grandparents, and parents does not give the city, town, county, or state > the right to confiscate them to resell them at their gain. There is no way > that my husband and I will utilize all of these gravesites but since I have > the titles to theses plots I intend handing them down to my children to be > used after our deaths and burial. > > In order to keep from having this event occur anywhere in our State, we as > the family historians and genealogists need to stand up and voice our > opinions and let these governments know that we won't stand for this > thievery. We need to contact the Michigan Governor and the Senators and the > House Representatives, the county executives, city mayors to let them know > that we are going to protect our ancestoral burial sites from them. > > So what I am asking is for help here. With each one of us contacting the > cemeteries in which your loved ones were laid to rest find out if there are > unused spaces and find out how to go about getting the titles to these plots > so that the government cannot take them and then resell them at inflated > prices back to the public. > > Yes, the City of Lansing states they they are going to search for > descendants but they already are in financial trouble and therefore could > not afford to research and search out the owners or descendants of these > family plots as it would cost a small fortune. As we all know the > government states they will do one thing and they do entirely a different > thing. > > Your ancestors that date back to the beginning of the State of Michigan only > paid a few dollars for these plots which many hold 8, 10, 12 sites in each > plot but it was their hard earned money not the governments money taht paid > for these plots. Cemeteries are sacred ground and should not be desecrated > by anyone including the governments of these cities, towns, villages, > counties, and or State. Yes, our ancestors may have only paid 30.00-50.00 > per plot but the going prices for these same lots today can bring in as much > as four thousand dollars or more depending on where they are at. Checking > the Want Ads this a.m. where I live the cheapest lots were going for > $2,345.00 each. So you see the government will really be making a killing on > these unused plots that our ancestors paid for and they want to take them > away from the family descendants. What will happen if you live out of state > and have not been contacted and a family member dies and you are going to > bury them in the family plot only to find out that it has been sold out from > under you without your permission to do this? > > So please list members write letters, email them, write to the newspapers to > the governor and the senators, and representatives, county executives, > mayors and let them know we are not going to allow this to go any further > and also make the City of Jackson return the monies they made off of the > resale of these private plots. I am including email addresses in which you > can write to the two major newspapers in Michigan and I am also giving you > email addresses for other government officials. > > To write to the newspapers: > > letters@freepress.com > letteers@detnews.com > www.LSJ.com click on the website and then click on the "contact us" and > write your letters. Lansing State Journal > > Write to your local and county newspapers, let them know how you feel about > what these governments are trying to do. Protect your cemeteries and your > ancestral burial sites from these thieves before it is too late and they > destroy them all because of their greediness. > > Write to the Governor of Michigan Janet Granholm by going to > www.michigan.gov then register your email address and then click on Online > Forms and Feedback and then write your letter. To address your letters to > the Senators and House members address it like this JohnDoe@house.mi.gov > putting the name of your house representative in place of John Doe. For the > Senate you address is as JohnDoe@senate.michigan.gov putting your state > senators name in place of John Doe. write to your county executive, mayors > in the same way. If you want to fax a letter to the Governor of Michigan > here is the number 1-517-373-3400 > > Lets get this out in the open so that everyone knows what is going on. We > need to defend our ancestors final resting places and to retain them as they > are now and not allow the government to sell them off. If we let them get > away with this this time what will they do next? Dig up the bones and dump > them in a garbage dump because they will stand to get more moeny from > reselling these plots. I say NO! Dont' let them do this. > Jean Payton > > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of government, but I thought it was just to locate the extra unused plots so that they can be used by someone else. I am sure that there are many large plots bought years ago in which the family has now has no living descendents or they have moved and have no more use for them. This makes sense to me--use the empty spots and save expanding the cemetary unnecessarily. Subject: Re: [MIOAKLAN] Re: What Michigan Government wants to do with our historic Cemeteries Date sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:22:57 -0400 To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com Forwarded by: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com > > Yes, Jean, I agree, this is serious business. > When the rich developers want land, they'll go to any length to get > it, including taking over a cemetery. > Reply to: marlu@tir.com

Dear Listers: Some of you may receive this letter more than once if you are on more than one county List in Michigan. I apologize for any inconvience this may cause you. I believe we all should be made aware of what is beginning to become a problem with our cemeteries through out Michigan. Yesterday, Detroit News Metro/State Section carried a news article about the City of Lansing wanting to reclaim thousand of unused gravesites so that they may resell them to bring money into their government. As the City of Jackson, Michigan has already done this and has netted them three hundred thousand dollars, we as descendants of the families who are buried in Michigan Cemeteries need to stand up as one to put a stop to this unlawful event. Yes, we have many old and historical cemeteries through out Michigan and its many counties, cities, towns, villages but I do not believe that any of these governments have the right to take back what your ancestors paid for with their blood, sweat, and tears. Our ancestors paid for these graves to be used by our families, not to be taken back from the descendants of these people who paid for these graves. Yes, families move and shift around the country and thus we leave unused grave sites but I believe that these unused sites should remain in the families of the people who are buried in these plots that have unused sites. I own plots in three different cemeteries in the State of Michigan and since I hold title to them that has been passed down from my great grandparents, grandparents, and parents does not give the city, town, county, or state the right to confiscate them to resell them at their gain. There is no way that my husband and I will utilize all of these gravesites but since I have the titles to theses plots I intend handing them down to my children to be used after our deaths and burial. In order to keep from having this event occur anywhere in our State, we as the family historians and genealogists need to stand up and voice our opinions and let these governments know that we won't stand for this thievery. We need to contact the Michigan Governor and the Senators and the House Representatives, the county executives, city mayors to let them know that we are going to protect our ancestoral burial sites from them. So what I am asking is for help here. With each one of us contacting the cemeteries in which your loved ones were laid to rest find out if there are unused spaces and find out how to go about getting the titles to these plots so that the government cannot take them and then resell them at inflated prices back to the public. Yes, the City of Lansing states they they are going to search for descendants but they already are in financial trouble and therefore could not afford to research and search out the owners or descendants of these family plots as it would cost a small fortune. As we all know the government states they will do one thing and they do entirely a different thing. Your ancestors that date back to the beginning of the State of Michigan only paid a few dollars for these plots which many hold 8, 10, 12 sites in each plot but it was their hard earned money not the governments money taht paid for these plots. Cemeteries are sacred ground and should not be desecrated by anyone including the governments of these cities, towns, villages, counties, and or State. Yes, our ancestors may have only paid 30.00-50.00 per plot but the going prices for these same lots today can bring in as much as four thousand dollars or more depending on where they are at. Checking the Want Ads this a.m. where I live the cheapest lots were going for $2,345.00 each. So you see the government will really be making a killing on these unused plots that our ancestors paid for and they want to take them away from the family descendants. What will happen if you live out of state and have not been contacted and a family member dies and you are going to bury them in the family plot only to find out that it has been sold out from under you without your permission to do this? So please list members write letters, email them, write to the newspapers to the governor and the senators, and representatives, county executives, mayors and let them know we are not going to allow this to go any further and also make the City of Jackson return the monies they made off of the resale of these private plots. I am including email addresses in which you can write to the two major newspapers in Michigan and I am also giving you email addresses for other government officials. To write to the newspapers: letters@freepress.com letteers@detnews.com www.LSJ.com click on the website and then click on the "contact us" and write your letters. Lansing State Journal Write to your local and county newspapers, let them know how you feel about what these governments are trying to do. Protect your cemeteries and your ancestral burial sites from these thieves before it is too late and they destroy them all because of their greediness. Write to the Governor of Michigan Janet Granholm by going to www.michigan.gov then register your email address and then click on Online Forms and Feedback and then write your letter. To address your letters to the Senators and House members address it like this JohnDoe@house.mi.gov putting the name of your house representative in place of John Doe. For the Senate you address is as JohnDoe@senate.michigan.gov putting your state senators name in place of John Doe. write to your county executive, mayors in the same way. If you want to fax a letter to the Governor of Michigan here is the number 1-517-373-3400 Lets get this out in the open so that everyone knows what is going on. We need to defend our ancestors final resting places and to retain them as they are now and not allow the government to sell them off. If we let them get away with this this time what will they do next? Dig up the bones and dump them in a garbage dump because they will stand to get more moeny from reselling these plots. I say NO! Dont' let them do this. Jean Payton

I would try contacting the Village of Franklin and find out who has the records for this cemetery and who does the burials when needed. Each Cemetery as I understand it has a board to which people can write to and or converse with about the plots in the cemetery. I know that in Redford Michigan the old Redford Cemetery (Bell Branch) has a Cemetery Association and they are responsible for keeping the records and the info on the cemetery up to date. When someone dies who has a plot in any old cemetery sometimes the funeral home who handles the burial has contracts with other cemeteries to prepare the site for burial and or the Monumnet company also does the preperations for the sevices. I know that in the Lafayette Cemetery in Detroit the last burial was in 1960s time frame and the Temple Beth El Cemetery hired one of the employees of Elmwood Cemetery to dig the grave and then the workers from Beth El finished the set up for the funeral and when the Funeral home brought the body and family to the Cemetery they had to park on the road as there was no place to park so Lafayette St. was effectively cut off from traffic until the service was over. As to establishing ownership you only need to provide the cemetery board with the names of living descendants and death records of the last person who was buried there. In my case I presented Roseland Park in Berkely, MI with the death records of my great grandparents, uncle, grandparents and the death record of my aunt and my mothers birth record to prove that I am the sole descendant next in line for ownership. When I pass on my children will have the ownership papers for proof of ownership. You need to get in touch with the Board to establish this ownership and they will have to give you title to the remaining plots as I did with Roseland Park. Jean Payton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lee Phillips" <fuffle@ix.netcom.com> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:52 AM Subject: [MIOAKLAN] Franklin Cemetery > This is an interesting and disturbing subject. Yes, governments and civil agencies are often cavalier about older cemeteries and it can be difficult to stop them once they get started. > > Perhaps someone can advise me on this one. Franklin Cemetery, in the village of Franklin, the township must be Southfield or Bloomfield I think. This is a pioneer cemetery, and I'm sure the local historical groups are going to work to protect it. But it also happens to be the burial place of a good number of my direct ancestors. It doesn't appear on most lists of active > cemeteries, but there are still recent burials (my own father just ten years ago, for instance.) Who has the records? How can I establish 'ownership' or rights to remaining family plots there? My father, his parents, most of his siblings, and two prior generations of his maternal line are all buried there. > > Gary Lee Phillips > (now residing in Illinois, but quite likely the oldest and nearest living descendant of all those folks) > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

This is an interesting and disturbing subject. Yes, governments and civil agencies are often cavalier about older cemeteries and it can be difficult to stop them once they get started. Perhaps someone can advise me on this one. Franklin Cemetery, in the village of Franklin, the township must be Southfield or Bloomfield I think. This is a pioneer cemetery, and I'm sure the local historical groups are going to work to protect it. But it also happens to be the burial place of a good number of my direct ancestors. It doesn't appear on most lists of active cemeteries, but there are still recent burials (my own father just ten years ago, for instance.) Who has the records? How can I establish 'ownership' or rights to remaining family plots there? My father, his parents, most of his siblings, and two prior generations of his maternal line are all buried there. Gary Lee Phillips (now residing in Illinois, but quite likely the oldest and nearest living descendant of all those folks)

For obits outside of Oakland County, go to the obit-lookups volunteer site. There are two of us doing Wayne County now. Please do not write to me privately and ask me to do a lookup. I already have a long waiting list and was pulling them off the boards and taking private requests, but I can't do that now. I am way too far behind. There are two of us now, but please do not overload either one of us. Give us one at a time. I can lookup Detroit deaths between 1920-1988 ONLY IF THEY DIED IN DETROIT. I do that on Saturday. I will lookup death dates only, by private request, but won't put that person on my obit lookup list at this time because I am too far behind. For Macomb County deaths, there is a link on the same volunteer site. Ann Faulkner does them for $5 for up to 4 obits if the obits are in the Mt. Clemens library Macomb Daily obit index. There is a link to that site there too. If they are not in the index, I think it is $5.00 for two obits. Ann does not keep any of this money. She donates her time and all of the money goes to the library to help them replace broken microfilm ($100 per reel) and buy new film. I have heard that you will definitely get your money's worth. There is also another Oakland County volunteer if Karen is too backed up. The link for all Michigan lookups is: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~obitl/volmi.html Also, the Detroit Public Library does obit lookups if you have the exact death date, but it takes about 6 weeks to 90 days to receive it. The cost is about $2.00. You can do a search for Detroit Public Library and find the information on the lookups. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Krugman" <miprofgenie@wwnet.net> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: [MIOAKLAN] Obituary searches Hi everyone! Yesterday I resumed my obit searches for those on this list. If you have sent me an obit request and have NOT heard from me, you are still on my list, be patient. If I found yours yesterday (Or didn't) I have already emailed you. My next trip to do lookups is in two weeks and I can already see a full plate so any new will probably get bumped another two weeks or so. I apologize for the delay. I am getting requests for Detroit/Wayne County and I am not doing them, I limit this offer to Oakland County only, 1 LOOKUP PER PERSON please, and I MUST HAVE a FULL (DAY MONTH YEAR) date of death. I do not have access to indexes for these newspapers. Thanks to all for your patience. Karen Check out some of our web pages: http://www.wwnet.net/~krugman1 (Main home page) http://www.miprofgenie.com http://www.nebulacomputers.com (Our son's page!) Are you a Boomershine descendant? Vol. 2 is now available! Email me for details! Karen Krugman, P.O. Box 577, Birmingham, MI 48012 ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Yes, Jean, I agree, this is serious business. When the rich developers want land, they'll go to any length to get it, including taking over a cemetery. You're right, the government would not have the means or the time and resources to trace descendents. My grandparents had 11 children who had from 3 to 8 children of their own. How in the world could they possibly trace the rightful owner of a cemetery plot? They couldn't and wouldn't. They'd place an insignificant ad in the classified section of a local newspaper and hope no one spots it. Then they'd take it to a Judge and say that they attempted to find the rightful owner and there wasn't any. They did all they could. Case dismissed, plow it under! In Georgia, they have laws against plowing under a cemetery, but when the developers "accidentally" find small family burial grounds, they get plowed under because nobody is there to watch them. This needs to be stopped before it starts, once it starts, there is no stopping THEM! Ken > This is not really a laughing matter. If we as owners or descendants let > this occur these cities and or states will take whatever they want > irregardless of whether they find a descendant or not. Like I said I hold > title to plots in three different cemeteries in Michigan and not one of them > know that I am the owner as the descendant of my great grandparents, > grandparents, parents and they wouldn't know where to begin looking for me. > > When my stepfather passed away a year ago I was having him buried in the > space that my mother will occupy and the person who is supposed to know > about the ownership of these plots told me I would need permission from my > brothers, sister, cousins and grandchildren of my mother before they would > allow me, the owner, to bury this man's ashes. When I questioned her on it > and informed her that I am the legal owner of these plots she said it didn't > matter because I wasn't the origianl purchaser. I said that didn't matter > as I am legally the owner and hold title to these lots. She was determined > that I didn't have a say in this matter even though I showed proof of > ownership. Finally I said to her what or who do I talk to who knows more > about this than her. She gets her manager and when I explained what I was > wanting to do she asked me one question. Did I hold title to the plots and > I said yes and that was all it took. They didn't need to get permission > from anyone else but me. Since I hold title they had to abide by my wishes > with regards to how I wanted my step father to be buried. Since I legally > owned these plots they cannot deny my instructions without my permission. > These cemeteries cannot take these lots from the original and or family > owners just because they didn't fill the graves. These graves belong to the > family and or the descendants of this family, not the City, not the State of > Michigan or anyone else. I do not think that the city, counties, states are > going to do a thorough search to locate descendants without a great cost to > the taxpayers. They don't have enough money to run their governments now > and to try to do this without permission from the Cemetery plot owners > families I would believe they would stand to lose a lot more in a law suit > than what they would get in reselling these empty graves. > > If we allow these cities, towns, counties and States to do this what will > they do next, dig up the bones of our ancestors and just toss them into a > pile and then resell the lots all over again to new buyers. yes, some > countries do this. They lack land to purchase for new cemeteries. The > people when they bought into these cemeteries already knew that this was a > part of the deal. I don't think there is a cemetery here in the United > States that would let this happen let alone the descendants of the family > members who are buried in these cemeteries. That is why it is important for > all of us to step up to front row and speak up and let these so-called > government officials know that we won't stand for this type of event to > occur. > > My suggestion to each and everyone on this list is to check out where your > ancestors are buried and find out if there are empty grave sites and find > out who is entitled to ownership of these sites and not let any government > come in and take them away from the families who paid for them to begin > with. I also believe that in Michigan there are laws that cover cemeteries > that once it is designated as a cemetery they cannot remove or resell empty > sites in any cemetery and can only remove all bodies to a new cemetery so > designated as a cemetery with approval from the State Cemetery Boards. > > I also remember that in the City of Detroit, the City wanted to enlarge the > City Airport which would have had to remove monuments and grave sites from > the Mount Olivet Cemetery and people got up in arms over it and it was soon > dropped. There were a couple of other cemeteries that they wanted to dig up > and remove the bodies to another cemetery and the people arose once again > and pitched such a stink about it it was easier to close the roads off > around the cemeteries involved. Elmwood Cemetery and Lafayette Cemetery was > going to be chopped up because the City of Detroit wanted to widen Lafayette > Street and when the Jewish family members found out what was planned there > was a very large stink made about it because the City of Detroit was going > to dig up 500 bodies and move them to another cemetery and just dig a large > hole and dump the bodies in and then put up one marker with all of the names > of the people who were there. That never came about either. > > So people check out your local cemeteries and find out what their rules and > regulations are. Don't let the Cities, Towns, Counties and States come in > and mess with our ancesotrs final resting places. These cemeteries are all > a part of our families and we need to stand up and protect them from > polititicians who don't know how to keep their government coffers filled > with our tax dollars. Don't let them rob our cemteries just to fill their > pockets. > Jean Payton > > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

This is not really a laughing matter. If we as owners or descendants let this occur these cities and or states will take whatever they want irregardless of whether they find a descendant or not. Like I said I hold title to plots in three different cemeteries in Michigan and not one of them know that I am the owner as the descendant of my great grandparents, grandparents, parents and they wouldn't know where to begin looking for me. When my stepfather passed away a year ago I was having him buried in the space that my mother will occupy and the person who is supposed to know about the ownership of these plots told me I would need permission from my brothers, sister, cousins and grandchildren of my mother before they would allow me, the owner, to bury this man's ashes. When I questioned her on it and informed her that I am the legal owner of these plots she said it didn't matter because I wasn't the origianl purchaser. I said that didn't matter as I am legally the owner and hold title to these lots. She was determined that I didn't have a say in this matter even though I showed proof of ownership. Finally I said to her what or who do I talk to who knows more about this than her. She gets her manager and when I explained what I was wanting to do she asked me one question. Did I hold title to the plots and I said yes and that was all it took. They didn't need to get permission from anyone else but me. Since I hold title they had to abide by my wishes with regards to how I wanted my step father to be buried. Since I legally owned these plots they cannot deny my instructions without my permission. These cemeteries cannot take these lots from the original and or family owners just because they didn't fill the graves. These graves belong to the family and or the descendants of this family, not the City, not the State of Michigan or anyone else. I do not think that the city, counties, states are going to do a thorough search to locate descendants without a great cost to the taxpayers. They don't have enough money to run their governments now and to try to do this without permission from the Cemetery plot owners families I would believe they would stand to lose a lot more in a law suit than what they would get in reselling these empty graves. If we allow these cities, towns, counties and States to do this what will they do next, dig up the bones of our ancestors and just toss them into a pile and then resell the lots all over again to new buyers. yes, some countries do this. They lack land to purchase for new cemeteries. The people when they bought into these cemeteries already knew that this was a part of the deal. I don't think there is a cemetery here in the United States that would let this happen let alone the descendants of the family members who are buried in these cemeteries. That is why it is important for all of us to step up to front row and speak up and let these so-called government officials know that we won't stand for this type of event to occur. My suggestion to each and everyone on this list is to check out where your ancestors are buried and find out if there are empty grave sites and find out who is entitled to ownership of these sites and not let any government come in and take them away from the families who paid for them to begin with. I also believe that in Michigan there are laws that cover cemeteries that once it is designated as a cemetery they cannot remove or resell empty sites in any cemetery and can only remove all bodies to a new cemetery so designated as a cemetery with approval from the State Cemetery Boards. I also remember that in the City of Detroit, the City wanted to enlarge the City Airport which would have had to remove monuments and grave sites from the Mount Olivet Cemetery and people got up in arms over it and it was soon dropped. There were a couple of other cemeteries that they wanted to dig up and remove the bodies to another cemetery and the people arose once again and pitched such a stink about it it was easier to close the roads off around the cemeteries involved. Elmwood Cemetery and Lafayette Cemetery was going to be chopped up because the City of Detroit wanted to widen Lafayette Street and when the Jewish family members found out what was planned there was a very large stink made about it because the City of Detroit was going to dig up 500 bodies and move them to another cemetery and just dig a large hole and dump the bodies in and then put up one marker with all of the names of the people who were there. That never came about either. So people check out your local cemeteries and find out what their rules and regulations are. Don't let the Cities, Towns, Counties and States come in and mess with our ancesotrs final resting places. These cemeteries are all a part of our families and we need to stand up and protect them from polititicians who don't know how to keep their government coffers filled with our tax dollars. Don't let them rob our cemteries just to fill their pockets. Jean Payton

Hi everyone! Yesterday I resumed my obit searches for those on this list. If you have sent me an obit request and have NOT heard from me, you are still on my list, be patient. If I found yours yesterday (Or didn't) I have already emailed you. My next trip to do lookups is in two weeks and I can already see a full plate so any new will probably get bumped another two weeks or so. I apologize for the delay. I am getting requests for Detroit/Wayne County and I am not doing them, I limit this offer to Oakland County only, 1 LOOKUP PER PERSON please, and I MUST HAVE a FULL (DAY MONTH YEAR) date of death. I do not have access to indexes for these newspapers. Thanks to all for your patience. Karen Check out some of our web pages: http://www.wwnet.net/~krugman1 (Main home page) http://www.miprofgenie.com http://www.nebulacomputers.com (Our son's page!) Are you a Boomershine descendant? Vol. 2 is now available! Email me for details! Karen Krugman, P.O. Box 577, Birmingham, MI 48012

Jean, This discussion was a big topic yesterday amongst those of us who spend alot of time at the library of Michigan. What the state is asking to do is claim the UNUSED grave sites. For instance: Lets say that a family buys a plot of six graves - they use three and then things happen they move on to another state or location. Things happen. The state has been discussing this with some of the professional genies in the area asking how hard it would be to locate the descendants of these people, try to make contact and either make them aware of the sites being available or get permission to use the UNUSED grave sites for burials. Personally I don't think its offensive as long as they make an effort to: 1.) make absolutely sure the grave is unoccupied 2.) make every effort to contact descendants 3.) make ample compensation to families who choose not to use the remaining sites of their plots. Karen Check out some of our web pages: * http://www.wwnet.net/~krugman1 (Main home page) * http://www.miprofgenie.com * http://www.nebulacomputers.com (Our son's page!) * Are you a Boomershine descendant? Vol. 2 is now available! Email me for details! Karen Krugman, P.O. Box 577, Birmingham, MI 48012 -----Original Message----- From: JEAN PAYTON [mailto:jeanpayton@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:53 AM To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MIOAKLAN] What Michigan Government wants to do with our historic Cemeteries Dear Readers: I was just reading the Detroit Newspapers edition of the Metro/State section and I am appalled by what the City of Lansing, MI is going to do and what the city of Jackson has already done. Headlines read: Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites because the cemeteries haven't seen burials since the late 1800s. They want to take the cemeteries back and resell them to new buyers. What is our world coming to that our government needs to uproot and disturb our ancestors final resting place because the Cities need money to run their Governments. Lets start a letter writing campaign to the Detroit News to put a stop to these robbing our ancestors graves to get money for their govermnet checkbook to misuse again. Each and everyone of us should flood the Detroit News with our complaints about what is about to happen to our historical cemeteries. To write to the Editor address is this www.detnews.com/editorial/index.htm A screen will come up and you only need to fill in the info required and write your letter and then click send. I believe the Detroit News will stand up and address this problem that we as genealogists are seeing more and more of this destruction our ancestrial artifiacts. Cemeteries should always be treated as sacred ground not a money making item for the Cities and or States of this Country because these cemeteries are our past and should be treated as such not to be destroyed and resell the property in which our ancestors are buried because these Cities and States Governments do not know how to spend our tax dollars wisely. So please write to the editor and lets get this desecration stopped before it goes any further. We are the only ones who can keep this from happening. Write today. Jean Payton ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear Readers: I was just reading the Detroit Newspapers edition of the Metro/State section and I am appalled by what the City of Lansing, MI is going to do and what the city of Jackson has already done. Headlines read: Lansing may reclaim thousands of grave sites because the cemeteries haven't seen burials since the late 1800s. They want to take the cemeteries back and resell them to new buyers. What is our world coming to that our government needs to uproot and disturb our ancestors final resting place because the Cities need money to run their Governments. Lets start a letter writing campaign to the Detroit News to put a stop to these robbing our ancestors graves to get money for their govermnet checkbook to misuse again. Each and everyone of us should flood the Detroit News with our complaints about what is about to happen to our historical cemeteries. To write to the Editor address is this www.detnews.com/editorial/index.htm A screen will come up and you only need to fill in the info required and write your letter and then click send. I believe the Detroit News will stand up and address this problem that we as genealogists are seeing more and more of this destruction our ancestrial artifiacts. Cemeteries should always be treated as sacred ground not a money making item for the Cities and or States of this Country because these cemeteries are our past and should be treated as such not to be destroyed and resell the property in which our ancestors are buried because these Cities and States Governments do not know how to spend our tax dollars wisely. So please write to the editor and lets get this desecration stopped before it goes any further. We are the only ones who can keep this from happening. Write today. Jean Payton

Hello Everyone: Those of you who are working on your lines back to your 1600s American Ancestors will find the1600s Ancestors Data Base to be of great help. My recent postings to the Data Base has taken it to over 26,500 Ancestors who have descendants living today. I have also added several National Societies who have proven many of these Ancestors. Also at this time a few new respected Reference works that contain thousands of sources including some of the early colonists who have Royal Blood lines. All the entries are coded to indicate to which reference work or which National Society has at least one of their proven lines. Several of the National Societies have over 20 different lines from a single Ancestor. When you enter the 1600s Ancestor Data Base be sure to look at the top of each data page for the link that takes you to the "Data Base Information Page" Here you will find the codes and references listed and how to use them. This is must reading to understand the Data Base. We are constantly updating the Data Base with additional Ancestors added as time permits. You will find the 1600s Ancestor Data Base at: http://www.firstfamilies.org/db/ Everyone has FREE access to all our web site and the reports contained there. Enjoy and Happy Hunting Ryan Jackson Data Base Manager America's First Families

An FYI - I have had several people write and ask if I still do the freebie obit lookups. The answer is yes. I have been out of town researching (vacation). I am home now and will resume lookups on July 8th. Please remember to ask for only one obit, you must have a full date, and I need an address to mail it to. Hope everyone has a safe and wonderful July 4th! Karen Check out some of our web pages: http://www.wwnet.net/~krugman1 (Main home page) http://www.miprofgenie.com http://www.nebulacomputers.com (Our son's page!) Are you a Boomershine descendant? Vol. 2 is now available! Email me for details! Karen Krugman, P.O. Box 577, Birmingham, MI 48012

BLOOMER Family Abraham and Mary (Knapp) VAN SCOY were born in Westchester County, New York, in the late 1700s. In the 1830s they moved to Huron County, Ohio. They were preceded to Huron County, Ohio, by her father Brundage KNAPP and later joined by his first cousins, Cornelius and James Van Scoy. Abraham and Mary Van Scoy's daughter Lidda Ann was born in 1813. She married John FISH in 1833 in Huron County, Ohio. Their daughter Celia Fish married John CHARVILLE. In 1880 John and Celia Charville and their children were living in Oxford Township, Erie County, Ohio. John and Celia Charville's daughter Ida Eva was born in 1866. She married Charles Edward BLOOMER in 1887. In 1930 Charles and Ida Bloomer's son Charles and wife Emma were living in West Bloomfield, Oakland County, Michigan. In 1907 descendants of the Van Scoy and Knapp families formed the VanScoy-Knapp Reunion. We met annually until the mid 1960s. This summer we are meeting again in celebration of the bicentennial of Ohio statehood. If you are a descendant of any of these families, please join us in Willard, Ohio, on Saturday, August 16, 2003, for our reunion, or send a note which we can share with those who attend. For details, please contact me at francesvanscoy@aol.com or vsk03@aol.com

Hi Tim, The Mormons have filmed the Oakland County death records from 1867-1918. You can order the film from your local LDS FHC for a few dollars. Online are Michigan death records 1867-1885 at http://www.mdch.state.mi.us/ Hope this helps. Ann Alamogordo, NM USA -----Original Message----- From: Tim Dempsey Family [mailto:dempsey@inebraska.com] Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:48 PM To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MIOAKLAN] Oakland Co. death records I am looking for someone who will do a lookup in the Oakland Co. death records. I am trying to find Caroline (Patten) Colby, died Nov. 14, 1890 and is buried in the Wixom Cemetery. Also for Debora McLane or McLean. I do not have a death date for Debora. In the 1870 census Debora was 74 years of age and living in Rose Twp. Oakland Co. with her granddaughter Almira Patten. Debora can not be found in the 1880 census so I am assuming she passed away before 1880. I would appreciate any help or suggestions as to how to find these people. Thank you, Sandy Dempsey ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I am looking for someone who will do a lookup in the Oakland Co. death records. I am trying to find Caroline (Patten) Colby, died Nov. 14, 1890 and is buried in the Wixom Cemetery. Also for Debora McLane or McLean. I do not have a death date for Debora. In the 1870 census Debora was 74 years of age and living in Rose Twp. Oakland Co. with her granddaughter Almira Patten. Debora can not be found in the 1880 census so I am assuming she passed away before 1880. I would appreciate any help or suggestions as to how to find these people. Thank you, Sandy Dempsey