This is a subject that comes up again and again. As a public librarian in Illinois, let me explain a few realities. Libraries cost money. There are staff to pay and provide benefits for, heating, lighting, building maintenance, telephones, faxes, computers (very costly) and catalog costs to be paid over and above the cost of the furniture, building, and books. Even when part of this is donated or long paid-for, most of the costs are ongoing and must be paid from somewhere. Michigan residents are fortunate in that they have county library systems that allow them to use free public libraries somewhere in their county in almost all cases, regardless of where in the state they may live. You may not be aware that many states do not have such a system. Here in Illinois, for instance, public libraries operate on individual district boundaries. They receive tax money only from within their district, so anyone who lives outside the district cannot expect free service. Such people often become very angry and insist that they are being "cheated", yet the fact is they are being cheated of nothing because they have not paid for anything yet. Offered a chance to buy a library card at the same tax rate paid by district residents, most will refuse. Libraries are not "cheap" but they are still a bargain. The average homeowner here in Harvard pays $140 per year in library tax. Under state law, we can sell non-residents who have no library card from anywhere in ! Illinois a Harvard card for $140. This entitles everyone in their household to full library services, including checking out books and borrowing from other Illinois libraries as well as our own. If you are a regular library user, you know this is a bargain, even if you only read half a dozen books a year, but many people just don't see it that way. Some few older libraries in Michigan are not members of the county system. Usually these are city libraries and are funded by city taxes separate from state or county library support. Detroit and Dearborn are two such libraries with which I am familiar. If you do not pay taxes to support those libraries, they are entirely within their rights if they ask to to pay to help support the cost of any service you use there. Most libraries try very hard to avoid overcharging in such situations, or even to avoid charging at all if they can. But the truth of the matter is, you can't demand a free service that you haven't paid for. When I lived in Michigan, both Detroit and Dearborn Public Libraries welcomed anyone who wanted to do research in their collections, regardless of residence. They gave away reference help for free, but would not check out books to you unless you had a library card (meaning you were a taxpayer or else you paid an annual fee for the card.) It would take changes to laws at the state level to change this situation. You can ask your state legislators to address this, but remember, if they do not provide funding to support the additional demand, the end result will be a cut in library services rather than an improvement. Gary Phillips General Services Librarian Harvard Diggins Library Harvard, Illinois

In a message dated 6/24/2004 7:01:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, MIOAKLAN-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Does anyone know if there are any online databases for World War 1 & 2 soldiers that lived in Oakland County MI? Thank you, Christy ****** Was at the Michigan Archives on Thursday and did a walk around. There is an alpha index card file for WW1 people who SERVED IN WW1 from the State of Michigan. This is a census that was done by "the war board' (a type of state census for about 1918 when the war ended) and not part of the 1920 Census (which is a federal census). This index card file is NOT the WW1 Draft Registration information. There were other 'war' signs on top of the rest of that bank of draws but did not investigate further. I personally need to go back and learn what else the Michigan Archives has.!! Susanne

I have to agree with Renee. If the options are paying or losing Burton...I'm all for paying. They have historical books about may different states which makes it an ideal location for family history research. MJ in MI >From: "Renee O." <renee@pconline.com> >To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [MIOAKLAN] Fw: Fees for the Burton >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:43:09 -0400 > >I'm glad someone is at least contacting the library before going nuts on >writing >congressmen, newspapers, etc! When I read this, my tone sounds harsh, >but I >certainly don't mean to come off harsh, just want to make a point that we >are >not owed the right to use the library, not even if we pay state taxes. > >Right now, the fees are to borrow books only, and that does not include the >main >library, where Burton is located, because that is a State owned library and >not >a city library. > >Please check out the Detroit Public Library website: > >www.detroitpubliclibrary.org > >The fee is $40 for a non resident to borrow books, (not to use the library) >for >one year, and the Burton collection is not included in this fee for two >reasons. > >1. You cannot, nor could you ever, borrow materials from Burton. You have >to >use the materials there. The fee is to BORROW books. > >2. Burton is at the Detroit Main Library, which is a state run library and >is >still free for all residents of the State of Michigan. > >Where was all this publicity last year when the DPL had it posted on their >website that they needed help because the state was proposing to cut their >funding by millions. The funds were already cut, last year. It is a bit >late >to be complaining now. > >The Detroit Public Library is a CITY library and not a STATE or COUNTY >library >(with the exception of the Main Library where Burton is located) and it is >primarily funded by DETROIT CITY or DETROIT property taxes. That means >that if >you do not live or work in Detroit, then you are not paying for this >library and >do not have the right to check out books for free, or even use it for free, >for >that matter. > >I wonder why there are so many people who believe they have a right to use >a >city library for free if they are not a resident of the city. I would not >try >to go to an Ohio library, when I live in Michigan and try to check out >books, >although I may want to do research there. > >Also, the site says that 'Friends of Detroit Library members' do not pay. >I >believe that includes those who have donated items, but am not sure. > >Maybe we should get more information before going nuts with this. >Everything in >the newspaper is not always accurate. Last year the newspaper said that >the DPL >was considering charging $5 to non residents just to enter and use the >library, >beginning January 1, 2004. That did not ever happen, but was being >considered. >I suspect that they wrote about the worst case being considered and not the >final plan. > >Even if this is accurate and is going to happen, the alternative is closing >many >libraries, maybe even the main library and the Burton Collection. They >have >already closed some branches. Where is the money supposed to come from? >Yes, >the furniture and materials have been donated to Burton, but the staff, >electricity, building maintenance, equipment maintenance, I could go on and >on, >still cost money. Maybe the solution is to come up with a Burton fund >that >would pay for all this for the Burton collection. > >Renee O'Neal > > > > >==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

I have used this to search my father and my gather in-law and have found the information listed to be incorrect . I have my fathers discharge and my father-in-laws. Has anyone else found this to be true...or can you explain to me why this would be? Thanks

Hi Christy, NARA has just recently put online records of U.S. Army Soldiers of World War II. The site is: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/search.jsp?file_id=3475&coll_id=null&data_layout_id=494&table_id=893 Read the "search operator tips" before doing a search. I don't know of any such online database for World War I. Best of Luck in your research, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <Christyo687@aol.com> To: <MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:37 AM Subject: [MIOAKLAN] WWll soldiers > Hello > > Does anyone know if there are any online databases for World War 1 & 2 > soldiers > that lived in Oakland County MI? > Thank you, Christy > > > ==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello Does anyone know if there are any online databases for World War 1 & 2 soldiers that lived in Oakland County MI? Thank you, Christy

I'm glad someone is at least contacting the library before going nuts on writing congressmen, newspapers, etc! When I read this, my tone sounds harsh, but I certainly don't mean to come off harsh, just want to make a point that we are not owed the right to use the library, not even if we pay state taxes. Right now, the fees are to borrow books only, and that does not include the main library, where Burton is located, because that is a State owned library and not a city library. Please check out the Detroit Public Library website: www.detroitpubliclibrary.org The fee is $40 for a non resident to borrow books, (not to use the library) for one year, and the Burton collection is not included in this fee for two reasons. 1. You cannot, nor could you ever, borrow materials from Burton. You have to use the materials there. The fee is to BORROW books. 2. Burton is at the Detroit Main Library, which is a state run library and is still free for all residents of the State of Michigan. Where was all this publicity last year when the DPL had it posted on their website that they needed help because the state was proposing to cut their funding by millions. The funds were already cut, last year. It is a bit late to be complaining now. The Detroit Public Library is a CITY library and not a STATE or COUNTY library (with the exception of the Main Library where Burton is located) and it is primarily funded by DETROIT CITY or DETROIT property taxes. That means that if you do not live or work in Detroit, then you are not paying for this library and do not have the right to check out books for free, or even use it for free, for that matter. I wonder why there are so many people who believe they have a right to use a city library for free if they are not a resident of the city. I would not try to go to an Ohio library, when I live in Michigan and try to check out books, although I may want to do research there. Also, the site says that 'Friends of Detroit Library members' do not pay. I believe that includes those who have donated items, but am not sure. Maybe we should get more information before going nuts with this. Everything in the newspaper is not always accurate. Last year the newspaper said that the DPL was considering charging $5 to non residents just to enter and use the library, beginning January 1, 2004. That did not ever happen, but was being considered. I suspect that they wrote about the worst case being considered and not the final plan. Even if this is accurate and is going to happen, the alternative is closing many libraries, maybe even the main library and the Burton Collection. They have already closed some branches. Where is the money supposed to come from? Yes, the furniture and materials have been donated to Burton, but the staff, electricity, building maintenance, equipment maintenance, I could go on and on, still cost money. Maybe the solution is to come up with a Burton fund that would pay for all this for the Burton collection. Renee O'Neal

Hi! Just to add to the discussion, I wrote Jackie Machie, the girl doing the PR for the project, and there are going to be daily usage fees for people outside of the state of Michigan (and I'm assuming these would apply for everyone else as well). Personally, I don't mind paying a small fee, like $10 to use their library when I come to MI, usually once or twice a year. I normally donate that as a thank you anyway. $100 does seem a bit unreasonable though - but if you use the library a lot, my guess is that it would pay for itself. And researchers no doubt will just pass the cost on in their research fees. Also, make sure to write Jackie, in order to make your feelings known directly to the library. Her email is jmachie@detroit.lib.mi.us . She also said that more details should be released soon. The days of getting "free" genealogy, I fear, are numbered. One thing is for sure - the removal of state funding for the library is deplorable, but something happening in other states (Florida comes to mind immediately for their library debacle). We all should get involved in our library system and try to find other means of helping them support themselves. My suburban Chicago library actually supports itself by rentals of brand new books, videos and software, as well as renting the library out for social functions. It also has an active donation program and special events (black tie, etc) occur fairly regularly. Detroit needs to pick this up - and quick - before all of the researchers abandon it and the Burton collection is thrown into jeopardy. Concetta Franco Chicago/Minneapolis >>> "cjensen" <cjensen@mipolonia.net> 6/22/2004 9:28:36 AM >>> Subject: Fees for the Burton Here is an on going list suggesting ideas to counter the Burton fee. There is a call for Letters to the Editor @ the Detroit Free Press today. I also suggest writing to the archdiocese of Detroit since it is my understanding that they have an agreement with the Burton to be the only library with the Detroit Catholic Church microfilms. The moderator of the BHC list is John P. DuLong, Ph.D., respected genealogist in the metro Detroit area. Ceil Michigan Polonia http://mipolonia.net Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS (sm) ===================================================================== CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BHC-request@habitant.org> > To: <BHC@habitant.org> > Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:00 AM > Subject: BHC Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5 > > > > Send BHC mailing list submissions to > > BHC@habitant.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > BHC-request@habitant.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > BHC-owner@habitant.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of BHC digest..." > > > > > > Burton Historical Collection List > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? (Maureen LeLacheur) > > 2. Free Press Article: Call for Letters to the Editor > > (John P. DuLong) > > 3. FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > (John P. DuLong) > > 4. Re: FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > (Bill & Peggy Youngs) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:08:40 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Maureen LeLacheur <mwlelacheur@yahoo.com> > > Subject: [BHC] How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? > > To: bhc@habitant.org > > Message-ID: <20040621210840.23028.qmail@web14804.mail.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? Check out the information > about Michicard access on the HAL site of Michigan.gov. The DPL has been a > Michicard library. My husband and I have checked books out of lots of > suburban libraries with our Michicard stickers on the DPL card without > payment. > > > > You all may want to pursue this tack. Perhaps the DPL is giving up its > participation. > > > > Maureen W. LeLacheur > > > > > > Maureen W. LeLacheur > > 17355 Meyers Rd > > Detroit MI 48235-1424 > > 313/342-8391 > > mwlelacheur@yahoo.com > >

Subject: Fees for the Burton Here is an on going list suggesting ideas to counter the Burton fee. There is a call for Letters to the Editor @ the Detroit Free Press today. I also suggest writing to the archdiocese of Detroit since it is my understanding that they have an agreement with the Burton to be the only library with the Detroit Catholic Church microfilms. The moderator of the BHC list is John P. DuLong, Ph.D., respected genealogist in the metro Detroit area. Ceil Michigan Polonia http://mipolonia.net Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS (sm) ===================================================================== CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BHC-request@habitant.org> > To: <BHC@habitant.org> > Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:00 AM > Subject: BHC Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5 > > > > Send BHC mailing list submissions to > > BHC@habitant.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > BHC-request@habitant.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > BHC-owner@habitant.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of BHC digest..." > > > > > > Burton Historical Collection List > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? (Maureen LeLacheur) > > 2. Free Press Article: Call for Letters to the Editor > > (John P. DuLong) > > 3. FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > (John P. DuLong) > > 4. Re: FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > (Bill & Peggy Youngs) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:08:40 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Maureen LeLacheur <mwlelacheur@yahoo.com> > > Subject: [BHC] How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? > > To: bhc@habitant.org > > Message-ID: <20040621210840.23028.qmail@web14804.mail.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? Check out the information > about Michicard access on the HAL site of Michigan.gov. The DPL has been a > Michicard library. My husband and I have checked books out of lots of > suburban libraries with our Michicard stickers on the DPL card without > payment. > > > > You all may want to pursue this tack. Perhaps the DPL is giving up its > participation. > > > > Maureen W. LeLacheur > > > > > > Maureen W. LeLacheur > > 17355 Meyers Rd > > Detroit MI 48235-1424 > > 313/342-8391 > > mwlelacheur@yahoo.com > >

Dear Good Folks, I am seeking information regarding my grand uncle, George W. Mitchell of Pontiac, Michigan in the 1930s and 40s.. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who might connect to him or his wife, Hannah. Thank you for your time and attention to my inquiry. Sincerely, Jennfier

Hello listers, I'm looking for someone who is familiar with looking up records at the courthouse in Oakland County to help me. Please contact me offlist at amjoemom@aol.com for more information as to what I am seeking.

Hi everyone! I was wondering if someone could look up an obituary for Charles Swaim who died May 31, 1957 in Drayton Plains. I live in South Bend, IN so I'm unable to get up and do it myself. If anyone is willing to look this up, please let me know. Thanks! Rick B --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 3/9/04

The cemetery is included in the book: Cemetery Records, Waterford Township, Oakland County, Michigan, edited by Beverly Lancaster and Russel Reed (Pontiac: Pontiac Area Historical and Genealogical Society, 1989). If you don't have access to one, members of the Waterford Genealogy Study Group provide a look up service. http://waterford.lib.mi.us/adult/watehist/waterfordcemsourceinfo.htm pipsqueak99@juno.com wrote: >Good morning list! > >I need to find tombstone information from a grave site or records at Four >Towns Cemetery. > >In the past I have written to them with an address supplied from a >church. I included an SASE, but did not receive a reply. The letter did >not return so some one received it. > >Any suggestions for getting information from there? > >Thanks for any help. > >BJ in FL > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > >==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >

Good morning list! I need to find tombstone information from a grave site or records at Four Towns Cemetery. In the past I have written to them with an address supplied from a church. I included an SASE, but did not receive a reply. The letter did not return so some one received it. Any suggestions for getting information from there? Thanks for any help. BJ in FL ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Michigan Vital Records search available on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4170936307&sspagename=STR K%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

There is a Oakland County Courthouse lookup up for bids on Ebay. The details are at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4171323150&sspagename=STR K%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

Due to the amount of work I have right now (working on publishing a book), I will not be watching this list for obituary requests. So if anyone needs an obituary lookup done please contact me thru the Oakland County GenWeb page under lookups or email me directly at karen@miprofgenie.com I am unsubbing after this email is posted to the list. Just a heads up to those of you who may need a lookup in the Michigan Vital records indexes (1867-1897) there are three Michigan Vital Records lookups posted on ebay right now. You may or may not find this helpful to your research. They can be found at the URL below, you may have to enlarge your email window to have this url appear on one line. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4170935831&sspagename=STR K%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 Good luck with your searches. I'll be back after the book is done! Karen

It is a good source for historical books- especially for families that originated from the east coast. >From: Rosie C <rtcouture@yahoo.com> >To: MIOAKLAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MIOAKLAN] Higginson Book Company >Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) > >A friend of mine referred me to this web page: Publishers of Genealogy * >Local History * Civil War Books * Historic Maps * including FAMILY >HISTORIES CATALOG > http://www.higginsonbooks.com/index.html > > >==== MIOAKLAN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the listowner at Judy@BirdGenealogy.org > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

A friend of mine referred me to this web page: Publishers of Genealogy * Local History * Civil War Books * Historic Maps * including FAMILY HISTORIES CATALOG http://www.higginsonbooks.com/index.html

http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/micounty/ Just wanted to say a BIG thank you to Rick for listing this website. I'm recovering from the dreaded carpal tunnel/trigger finger surgery (everyone flex their hands!) and promised myself to clean out/reorganize all my files, papers, and to check out all the URL's I've made a note of. There is a bio on my 2xGrGrandfather Harvey Townsend. The only info I had was a guesstimate of birth in 1835/36 in NY and then finding him in the 1860 census in Oxford with his wife Lois Brown. I now know he came to Lapeer with his parents Nathan and Nancy in 1846 from Wayne Co, NY and has a younger brother Octavious. Harvey and Lois had a farm in Lapeer (1870 census) for a number of years and when her parents Isaac and Artimisia Brown passed, they inherited the farm in Oxford. So, clean out your files---you may have a goldmine hidden!!! Annie Atlanta, GA