----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home > needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay toward > the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at that > time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have to > figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to match?? > > In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that > may > not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS > payment toward the funeral . . . First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or information, contact your local Social Security Administration for guidance. But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. As far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I would "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a Social Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth of December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think that they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require EXACT confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and then later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original application versus the final death information. In a large number of cases, someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even family they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can change. The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over the years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to surviving children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of burial and methods could be a part of the payment. This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 The amount could not exceed $255.00. As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain by funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments had been made entirely by the family. AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their local Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to be paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between the dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. Ron

Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan to contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more information for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how he wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. Thanks, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > > >> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >> toward >> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at that >> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >> to >> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to match?? >> >> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >> may >> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS >> payment toward the funeral . . . > > First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or > information, contact your local Social Security Administration for > guidance. > > But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. As > far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I > would > "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number > and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a Social > Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth > of > December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same > name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security > Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think > that > they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require > EXACT > confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of > accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and then > later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an > investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't > think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, > that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original > application versus the final death information. In a large number of > cases, > someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even > family > they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't > remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can > change. > > The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over the > years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the > rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to > surviving > children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of > burial and methods could be a part of the payment. > > This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. > https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 > > The amount could not exceed $255.00. > > As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, > only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain > by > funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments > had > been made entirely by the family. > > AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their > local > Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to be > paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between > the > dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; > but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. > > Ron > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Good morning Virginia, I just had another thought . . . most states did census between the years of the federal census . . . have you checked with the state to see if they might have . . . can't remember the years that are confused now, but am thinking 1881 and 1887 . . . so if there is an 1885 state census??? Jeanine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan > to > contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more > information > for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how > he > wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. > > Thanks, > Virginia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> >> >> >>> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >>> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >>> toward >>> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at >>> that >>> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >>> to >>> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to >>> match?? >>> >>> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >>> may >>> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS >>> payment toward the funeral . . . >> >> First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or >> information, contact your local Social Security Administration for >> guidance. >> >> But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. >> As >> far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I >> would >> "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number >> and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a >> Social >> Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth >> of >> December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same >> name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security >> Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think >> that >> they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require >> EXACT >> confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of >> accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and >> then >> later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an >> investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't >> think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, >> that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original >> application versus the final death information. In a large number of >> cases, >> someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even >> family >> they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't >> remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can >> change. >> >> The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over >> the >> years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the >> rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to >> surviving >> children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of >> burial and methods could be a part of the payment. >> >> This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. >> https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 >> >> The amount could not exceed $255.00. >> >> As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, >> only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain >> by >> funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments >> had >> been made entirely by the family. >> >> AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their >> local >> Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to >> be >> paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between >> the >> dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; >> but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jeanine, I haven't - I didn't know that but will check it out. The message from Joe was information he found when searching for his family. Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Good morning Virginia, > I just had another thought . . . most states did census between the years > of > the federal census . . . have you checked with the state to see if they > might have . . . can't remember the years that are confused now, but am > thinking 1881 and 1887 . . . so if there is an 1885 state census??? > Jeanine > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan >> to >> contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more >> information >> for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how >> he >> wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. >> >> Thanks, >> Virginia >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> >> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> >>> >>> >>>> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >>>> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >>>> toward >>>> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at >>>> that >>>> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >>>> to >>>> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to >>>> match?? >>>> >>>> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >>>> may >>>> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that >>>> SS >>>> payment toward the funeral . . . >>> >>> First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or >>> information, contact your local Social Security Administration for >>> guidance. >>> >>> But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. >>> As >>> far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I >>> would >>> "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security >>> Number >>> and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a >>> Social >>> Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth >>> of >>> December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the >>> same >>> name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security >>> Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think >>> that >>> they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require >>> EXACT >>> confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of >>> accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and >>> then >>> later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an >>> investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't >>> think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should >>> they, >>> that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original >>> application versus the final death information. In a large number of >>> cases, >>> someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even >>> family >>> they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't >>> remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can >>> change. >>> >>> The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over >>> the >>> years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the >>> rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to >>> surviving >>> children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of >>> burial and methods could be a part of the payment. >>> >>> This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. >>> https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 >>> >>> The amount could not exceed $255.00. >>> >>> As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, >>> only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain >>> by >>> funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments >>> had >>> been made entirely by the family. >>> >>> AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their >>> local >>> Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to >>> be >>> paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between >>> the >>> dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death >>> data; >>> but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- >> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---