In a message dated 4/4/2004 3:29:56 PM Central Standard Time, Paddlec1@aol.com writes: Perhaps it was in *your grandfather's* case. To project that to all indentured servants would be a mistake. See "Ties That Bind" the orphan train story in Minnesota. Too project anything on to all of anyone would be a mistake. This was certainly very hard on some children. Actually, leaving your family, no matter what your family is like is very hard. Coming to a new one is also hard, even if the family is the most loving. When it was not, we can not imagine the pain thoses children felt. I've read some of the letter children from the NYJA sent back to the asylum. I'm sure the letters that were kept were from the best of placings. One child had been moved 3 times before finding a compatable home. But, at this home, he was very happy. Each situation is unique. I missed the first post on this thread so can only give my grandfather's side of the story. Perhaps someone would be interested. If not, stop reading now! lol My great grandfather died and my great grandmother remarried. Exactly what happened in the family my grandfather would never say, but he spent some time living on the streets of Brooklyn. His sisters stayed at home. No one knows what happened to his brother. My grandfather also spent some time working in a sweatshop making pots and pans before being turned over to the asylum. He was no older than 13 tho he could have spent more time in the asylum than the year that I know about and could have been younger. He was sent to live with a family in Illinois and helped work the farm. He also went to school. He wasn't too keen on school but loved the farm, especially stock raising. He kept in touch with his sisters at least until 1954. He came to Illinois in 1895. Learning of the lives our ancestors lived is part of the joy of genealogy. Bev

In a message dated 4/4/04 2:32:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rbestrom@earthlink.net writes: << She was not attacking you. >> Right.... "Then the other side of the situation, is someone who will make up AND PRINT a totally different story than what actually happen, so they can feel conformable about the ancestor and their life."

In a message dated 4/4/04 2:06:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, RJNOHR@aol.com writes: << my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". So did my grandfather. From the 1860s to the early 1900s the New York Juvenile Asylum sent out children from New York City to Illinois and other states. Minnesota got a few of the children. All of these children were indentured. They stayed with the family until they were of age and were then given a suit of clothes and some money. My grandfather loved the family he lived with. He worked hard but everyone did on the farm back then. This type of indentured servitude was totally unlike the indentured servitude of the 1600 and 1700s. It was more like foster care, Perhaps it was in *your grandfather's* case. To project that to all indentured servants would be a mistake. See "Ties That Bind" the orphan train story in Minnesota. which as far as I know didn't exist until recently. Bev >>

Hi all At one time I had a link to a URL containing lot of names of the children sent on the train for the purpose you are discussing. This site also has a lot of info about those times. Jeannie :) In a message dated 4/4/2004 1:06:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, RJNOHR@aol.com writes: my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". So did my grandfather. From the 1860s to the early 1900s the New York Juvenile Asylum sent out children from New York City to Illinois and other states. Minnesota got a few of the children. All of these children were indentured. They stayed with the family until they were of age and were then given a suit of clothes and some money. My grandfather loved the family he lived with. He worked hard but everyone did on the farm back then. This type of indentured servitude was totally unlike the indentured servitude of the 1600 and 1700s. It was more like foster care, which as far as I know didn't exist until recently. Bev

In a message dated 4/4/04 1:57:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, deburke@hotmail.com writes: << Sussane had a good point and there was really no need to defend. Don >> And which point was that?

Dear Margit I am truly in state of shock! Thank you so much for including the URL so I could actually see this for myself. After all of the years and of searching for her death in ND and probably buried under the waters of a ND dam lake I am stunned. The really wonderful thing about your discovery is that my guess that John and K/Catherine went to MN because either/or both their families were there was right. It helps me to search somehow for that Lindsay family. It also gives me a reason for K/Catherine's parents taking my mother at what I now I see almost 3. I now see that the train ride my mother took at 8 was probably from MN to either Emmons or Golden Lake County, ND. I cannot ever thank you enough for taking an interest in this. If you ever need info from Portland, OR area I owe you! Jeannie :) In a message dated 4/4/2004 11:58:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, margit@eot.com writes: WILSON, KATHRIN CertID# 1915-MN-013335 Date of Birth:not indexed Place of Birth:not indexed Mother Maiden Name: not indexed Date of Death:04/14/1915 County of Death: SIBLEY http://people.mnhs.org/dci/ > > K/Catherine died in 1915 in ND? or MN? or? when my mother was 3 years old. My > mother was sent/taken by train to wherever John and Frank were, probably ND. > John, Frank and my mother were on the 1920 Golden Valley, ND census, and > K/Catherine was listed as deceased. John and family eventually ended up in > Kelso,

my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". So did my grandfather. From the 1860s to the early 1900s the New York Juvenile Asylum sent out children from New York City to Illinois and other states. Minnesota got a few of the children. All of these children were indentured. They stayed with the family until they were of age and were then given a suit of clothes and some money. My grandfather loved the family he lived with. He worked hard but everyone did on the farm back then. This type of indentured servitude was totally unlike the indentured servitude of the 1600 and 1700s. It was more like foster care, which as far as I know didn't exist until recently. Bev

In a message dated 4/4/04 12:30:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, SHieber@aol.com writes: << MINNESOTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". **** Please don't try and evaluate your father's life, as an indentured servant, with values today. The OFFICIAL reason's are unknown to me or perhaps you, Unknown to you for sure. Have you considered that I may have known the people who raised my father? Have you pondered that I may have access to, and may have read the words of the state caseworker who regularly visited the family? The boys did go to an orphanage, state school/home, etc name., and it might have been the best place for them at the time. The reason could have been out of the control of the parents, even if the family oral history states that the step-dad took them there. What's your point Susanne? Laws were different years ago and you are talking about the time period of the great depression where people did not have jobs. There was no food stamps for families, etc. Again, what's your point? Children were expected to do a lot more work around the farm, home than what children do now or have done in the past 40-50 years. If you have an oral story of "how hard it was on the boys" Who said anything about an "oral history"? it might have been created by current people, basing it on current values and what today's children do. There are even today, children who feel 'picked upon' by someone making them do things they do not want to do! What oral history, and again what's your point? Not all children have gone to school all the school year, as they do now. Many children who lived on their family farm, stayed home because there were certain chores that needed to be done at certain times of the year. Their labor was expected of them. They were part of the family business. Do you have any idea what the stipulations of the contract were as far education or level of care? Have you ever read one of these contracts issued by the State of Minnesota? Again Susanne, what's your point? Many people who find out something about their family, do withhold it from others they know. They have their own feelings & reasons. You could ponder why she felt not conformable telling 'the family." Could she feel a shame of something in the information? It is something SHE FELT and prevented her from telling. And that should absolve her of legal as well as moral responsibility because??? Then the other side of the situation, is someone who will make up AND PRINT a totally different story than what actually happen, so they can feel conformable about the ancestor and their life. And you are saying this because??? Lots of reasons. Don't believe everything in oral/print oral history. Again, what's your point? Are you saying that my new relatives who shook my hand and hosted me at their homes are not real? The family birth certificates from Crow Wing County MN are fictional? My fathers case file from the Owattonna State School which is now in my possession does not exist? Don' t be hard on the person now, since you know of the ancestor. We all have a different level of confront towards our ancestors and their past. Susanne >> What does that mean? Which "person"? Bored this Sunday Susanne? Nothing better to do than try to deflate a person with a little lightly veiled personal attack? Dennis

MINNESOTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". **** Please don't try and evaluate your father's life, as an indentured servant, with values today. The OFFICIAL reason's are unknown to me or perhaps you, The boys did go to an orphanage, state school/home, etc name., and it might have been the best place for them at the time. The reason could have been out of the control of the parents, even if the family oral history states that the step-dad took them there. Laws were different years ago and you are talking about the time period of the great depression where people did not have jobs. There was no food stamps for families, etc. Children were expected to do a lot more work around the farm, home than what children do now or have done in the past 40-50 years. If you have an oral story of "how hard it was on the boys" it might have been created by current people, basing it on current values and what today's children do. There are even today, children who feel 'picked upon' by someone making them do things they do not want to do! Not all children have gone to school all the school year, as they do now. Many children who lived on their family farm, stayed home because there were certain chores that needed to be done at certain times of the year. Their labor was expected of them. They were part of the family business. Many people who find out something about their family, do withhold it from others they know. They have their own feelings & reasons. You could ponder why she felt not conformable telling 'the family." Could she feel a shame of something in the information? It is something SHE FELT and prevented her from telling. Then the other side of the situation, is someone who will make up AND PRINT a totally different story than what actually happen, so they can feel conformable about the ancestor and their life. Lots of reasons. Don't believe everything in oral/print oral history. Don' t be hard on the person now, since you know of the ancestor. We all have a different level of confront towards our ancestors and their past. Susanne

> The Charles Aitkin I am looking for was born in or around 1883. He sold > gasoline, oil, and Model T Fords in Motley. I'd like to know where he came from. The 1930 Census shows: Charles and Ida Aitkin, he 62, estimated birth year 1867, she 64, both born in Minnesota. His father was of mixed blood. Ida's father was full blood Indian. Living in Turtle Lake, Cass County, MN. He was first married at 20, she at 16, so possible both had previous marriages. He is identified as not being able to speak English. The 1920 Census shows: They are living in the same place. Charles identified as being 50, wife is 54. The copy is VERY bad, wife's name is Kay...something...Olaw or something. THere are two others in the household, I can't tell what the relationship is; but both are male, one 18, the other 21.

I'm thinking this is not the right Aitkin either. Thanks, Dennis In a message dated 4/4/04 11:30:00 AM Mountain Daylight Time, rpheller@fmctc.com writes: << Dennis, In the 1920 Census records there is a Charles Aitkin 35 yrs old born Scotland and was a plumber. Spouse Delia-26 Margaret-6 Virginia -1 all born in Scotland. They were living in Ramsey County, St. Paul. Would this be your family. Phyllis >>

Jeannie, I've found John, Catherine, and their son Frank in the 1910 census in North Dakota, Emmons County, Gayton Dist Series: T624 Roll: 1141 Page: 218. If you'd like a copy of the image let me know, and I'll send it to you. If there is any other census look-up you'd like just say the word. Judy McIntyre

Hi everyone Just subscribed to this list and very glad to see it is so active. My family unexpectedly appeared in MN in the 1910 census. Wish I knew what County. A long time ago some kind lady sent me an abbreviated list of their census presence. Would like to see more of this census so someday I can find the first names of all of their parents. I would like to see if the Lindsay and/or Wilson families were why John and K/Catherine went to MN. My g grandparent Lindsays took my mother when she was 3 and returned her to her father in ND when she was 8. My maternal grandparents: John William WILSON m: K/Catherine J. LINDSAY. He was b: in Hickory County, MO in 1872/1873. She was b: in OH in 1882/1883. They were in MN in 1908 since my Uncle Frank was b: in MN in 1908. By 1912 the family were in Gayton, Emmons County, ND where my mother was born. K/Catherine died in 1915 in ND? or MN? or? when my mother was 3 years old. My mother was sent/taken by train to wherever John and Frank were, probably ND. John, Frank and my mother were on the 1920 Golden Valley, ND census, and K/Catherine was listed as deceased. John and family eventually ended up in Kelso, Cowlitz County, WA. Truly hope that these names and story sound familiar to someone. Jeannie from OR :)

WILSON, KATHRIN CertID# 1915-MN-013335 Date of Birth:not indexed Place of Birth:not indexed Mother Maiden Name: not indexed Date of Death:04/14/1915 County of Death: SIBLEY http://people.mnhs.org/dci/ > > K/Catherine died in 1915 in ND? or MN? or? when my mother was 3 years old. My > mother was sent/taken by train to wherever John and Frank were, probably ND. > John, Frank and my mother were on the 1920 Golden Valley, ND census, and > K/Catherine was listed as deceased. John and family eventually ended up in > Kelso,

Colleen, This is NOT typical of the help and genealogy work done on this site. Ron Bestrom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malibu" <c99malibu@cox.net> To: <MINNESOTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 1:41 pm Subject: RE: [MINNESOTA] Indentured Servant > If this is what this message board is about, then I guess I don't need it! > Colleen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > What does that mean? Which "person"? > > Bored this Sunday Susanne? Nothing better to do than try to deflate a person > with a little lightly veiled personal attack? > > Dennis > > > ==== MINNESOTA Mailing List ==== > Want to unsubscribe from the Minnesota-L list (Single message mode)? Send an > e-mail message to MINNESOTA-L-request@rootsweb.com On the first line of > text, enter only the following word: Unsubscribe > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== MINNESOTA Mailing List ==== > To view completed census transcriptions online, go to: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/inv/index.html > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

If this is what this message board is about, then I guess I don't need it! Colleen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What does that mean? Which "person"? Bored this Sunday Susanne? Nothing better to do than try to deflate a person with a little lightly veiled personal attack? Dennis ==== MINNESOTA Mailing List ==== Want to unsubscribe from the Minnesota-L list (Single message mode)? Send an e-mail message to MINNESOTA-L-request@rootsweb.com On the first line of text, enter only the following word: Unsubscribe ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

My father's mother was a widow, and it was tough times. I will post a copy of the contract after it is scanned. The Charles Aitkin I am looking for was born in or around 1883. He sold gasoline, oil, and Model T Fords in Motley. I'd like to know where he came from. Dennis In a message dated 4/4/04 10:38:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time, patpaint@optonline.net writes: << I would be very interested in having you post a copy of the contract of indenture. I had no idea this sort of thing was done with orphans, let alone 'abandoned' children. I cannot imagine how your dad's mother suffered all those years! But a widow with children had few, if any, options. That I know from my own family research... Thanks for sharing! Pat Dolan Manalapan, NJ >>

You mean this guy? AITKIN, CHARLES CertID# 1934-MN-000064 Date of Death: 09/11/1934 County of Death: AITKIN Kathy Paddlec1@aol.com wrote: > > My father's mother was a widow, and it was tough times. I will post a copy of > the contract after it is scanned. > > The Charles Aitkin I am looking for was born in or around 1883. He sold > gasoline, oil, and Model T Fords in Motley. I'd like to know where he came from. > > Dennis > > In a message dated 4/4/04 10:38:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > patpaint@optonline.net writes: > > << I would be very interested in having you post a copy of the contract of > indenture. I had no idea this sort of thing was done with orphans, let > alone 'abandoned' children. I cannot imagine how your dad's mother > suffered all those years! But a widow with children had few, if any, > options. That I know from my own family research... > > Thanks for sharing! > Pat Dolan > Manalapan, NJ >> > > ==== MINNESOTA Mailing List ==== > Join the Rootsweb WorldConnect Project! Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://www.worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I'm seeking information on Charles Aitkin, who ran a garage business in Motley MN in the 1920s and 30s. Thanks, Dennis

A little piece here and a little piece there, and it all came together. My father with at least one brother was dragged off to an orphanage when he was about 2 1/2 yrs by his stepfather. Little brother was adopted, but my father went out to a farm family under a contract of "indentured servitude". Thanks to the help of some on this board, the help of someone in the Crow Wing Courthouse for the birth certificates, and a lot of luck it came together. One of my sisters had found most of the info on this twenty years ago, and had hidden it..... No thanks to her, but we kept looking. My father, who is now 80 has been reunited with an older brother who had spent decades looking for him, and has met another brother and four sisters who were not yet born when he went to the orphanage. We have no moral right to withhold information. If we have it, we need to share it with our families. My father spent about 16 years with the farm family. That time consisted of abuse and hard labor. The people that held the contract on him allowed him to go to school only part time, and only to the third grade. If anyone is interested I will post a copy of the contract of indenture. I believe it is an important part of history (my research tells me that the state on Minnesota was doing this probably as late as 1945). It seems that this contract was a pretty rotten deal for some children, but at the same time it allowed the state to supervise the situation (something the state lost in an adoption) and protect children as well. Best to all, Dennis Schafer Bozeman MT