I have a cousin who subscribed to the World Collection and so far seems like there really is no information for any country other than the UK . . . look for someone in Yugoslavia or Germany or Russia . . . they say they will eventually be added . . . too bad she wasn't told that when she called before she subscribed . . . and for those who have subscribed to the US collection and those dates were indicated as part of that package . . . then there is NO WAY that I can accept that they can parcel out bits and pieces and sell them separately . . . that is why it is important for me to know the reason for what is happening. Now the way the world of out-sourcing has been shown in various things that I am familiar with, this might well be an "error" on the part of some programmer or tech person and the data was lost . . . their "huge machine" that you describe needs that data to keep it running smoothly in my opinion!! And I'm not picking on out-sourcing here either . . . this could happen right here in a "transcription tank" just as easily . . . we have all heard of operator error! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Hcounter@aol.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > > In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:06:30 PM Central Daylight Time, > jreck@ecenet.com writes: > > you mean when they can make up another neat little package of birth dates > to > sell to us too??? > > > > No, I mean when an appropriate amount of time has passed for this info to > be > put on a public site. That index included the dates of not only myself, > but > my kids, and my grandkids. I wasn't real comfortable with that. Not > only > that, but info that is not easily obtained in person was on the net. Not > a > real comfortable feeling, especially when you have a name that only 9 > other > people in the world have, and more than half of them are vulnerable > adults or > children. > > As far as them making money, I really think people should stop to think > about that. They are a business, of course they want to make money. But > have > you ever noticed that they seem to plow an awful lot of that back into > the > business? Have you ever inquired as to the cost of maintaining servers > to hold > all that info, the cost to upgrade and add servers to handle all the new > info > they are constantly adding. The cost to hire techs to maintain those > servers > and databases, search engines, etc.? My son-in-law is a tech and sets up > and maintains servers for the customers of the company he works for. > They > guarentee 97% up time, which I think ancestry equals. So I do have an > idea of > the cost. Check it out sometime. Even with the outsourcing they do, the > cost > has to be incredible for them to be able to constantly add the amount of > info > they are doing. > > Annie in Minnesota > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

back I the days of "snail mail" it was not unusual for me to go through three 100-stamp rolls per month . . . I put them on return envelopes that I addressed or I added post cards with my phone number etc. I found info that is and never will be on the net, little churches, little cemeteries . . . many things . . . tracked things down by phone too . . . however, not to have the dates of those over 100 years old is going to make it very tough to do our tracing back that far . . . at best they weren't all listed, but those that were at least ruled out certain places you didn't need to look . . . HOWEVER, my question is . . . is this connected to Homeland Security OR is it connected to more small packages being put together by ancestry.com that people will have to purchase in order to get the "full blown" US collection? If that is what is going on, then it does anger me . . . you purchase one thing and you end up with something different!! When things like this happen without explanation, it gives one pause to consider the REASON!! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Hcounter@aol.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > > In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:08:41 PM Central Daylight Time, > jreck@ecenet.com writes: > > well you can't get information about births at any courthouse that I've > contacted either, most of them will verify info if you have it all > written > and they go to the ledger, but some won't even do that much. > > And this is not just for MN, pick a name to type in on ancestry and look > that birth column . . . just lists the state! > > > > So we are back to doing some research the hard way. Mail shots, etc. > That > is what I used when I first started this hobby 30+ years ago, and can do > it > again. It actually netted me many more "live" cousins that I have gotten > to > know than just using info on the net has done. > > Annie in Minnesota > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, After all the discussion, I went to Ancestry to check things out and I found that the year is still available. If you look at the file number the first digits are the year. So although you may not have the month and day, the year is still there. I don't know if that helps you out. Jeen

Minnesota Birth & Death records are available on the MN Historical site: http://www.mnhs.org/index.htm Gayle Minneapolis -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:06:30 PM Central Daylight Time, jreck@ecenet.com writes: you mean when they can make up another neat little package of birth dates to sell to us too??? No, I mean when an appropriate amount of time has passed for this info to be put on a public site. That index included the dates of not only myself, but my kids, and my grandkids. I wasn't real comfortable with that. Not only that, but info that is not easily obtained in person was on the net. Not a real comfortable feeling, especially when you have a name that only 9 other people in the world have, and more than half of them are vulnerable adults or children. As far as them making money, I really think people should stop to think about that. They are a business, of course they want to make money. But have you ever noticed that they seem to plow an awful lot of that back into the business? Have you ever inquired as to the cost of maintaining servers to hold all that info, the cost to upgrade and add servers to handle all the new info they are constantly adding. The cost to hire techs to maintain those servers and databases, search engines, etc.? My son-in-law is a tech and sets up and maintains servers for the customers of the company he works for. They guarentee 97% up time, which I think ancestry equals. So I do have an idea of the cost. Check it out sometime. Even with the outsourcing they do, the cost has to be incredible for them to be able to constantly add the amount of info they are doing. Annie in Minnesota

In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:08:41 PM Central Daylight Time, jreck@ecenet.com writes: well you can't get information about births at any courthouse that I've contacted either, most of them will verify info if you have it all written and they go to the ledger, but some won't even do that much. And this is not just for MN, pick a name to type in on ancestry and look that birth column . . . just lists the state! So we are back to doing some research the hard way. Mail shots, etc. That is what I used when I first started this hobby 30+ years ago, and can do it again. It actually netted me many more "live" cousins that I have gotten to know than just using info on the net has done. Annie in Minnesota

In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:13:15 PM Central Daylight Time, jreck@ecenet.com writes: I wonder personally if there are any statistics available indicating the source of information that identity thieves, stalkers, and other miscellaneous ilk have used to gather the information they use. Bet there is more information available through our medical records, credit cards, telephone company records etc. that thousands and millions of people have access to and we don't give one thought to that as being a source to be concerned about . . . or that is most people don't, they consider it part of doing business daily!! >From what I understand, the highest incidence of identity theft/fraud comes from improperly disposed of carbons (notice they have all but disappeared), people not taking care of their purses and wallets and losing them (having them lifted or the cards and Ids from them lifted). Improperly disposed of records, medical, dental, bank, utility, etc. I have noticed lately that alot of banks have shredders handy for disposal of stuff now. So does my doctor's office, my dentist's office and insurance man's office. I personally shred every piece of mail that comes into my house with my name and address on it. Take a look, even some junk mail has that info on it. Bank statements and the checks that come with them are another source. Credit offers for cards or loans will have cards with info on them that can be used. And people do go thru neighborhoods on trash nite and go thru it. I worked weird hours before I retired and saw them. Have seen them go thru at times since I have retired also. Have noticed they do not do so as much anymore since I put up sensor lights in front and back and many of my neighbors followed suit. However, I still feel better that my birth info has been removed as well as that of my kids and grandkids. Annie in Minnesota

Have they also eliminated the death dates? How can we verify our finds without a birthdate? OR are the bithdates going to be available if you pay for a new type subscription? Lafe Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index Hello listers, Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I loved having access to the MN Birth records but I always did think it was kind of risky since it gave parents names---with the mother's maiden name. It's pretty common for people to use their mother's maiden names as passwords or for security purposes on bank accounts and credit cards. How nice to have it online for the crooks!! I never ever use my mother's maiden name any more for anything. Claudia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Sullivan" <ksullivan@hvc.rr.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index Identity thief? Stalking? Legal issues? Mind boggling and scary if that information is available to anyone who searches the internet. -----Original Message----- From: minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of SANDY FAIRCHILD Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM To: Minnesota Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index Hello listers, Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! Sandy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Identity thief? Stalking? Legal issues? Mind boggling and scary if that information is available to anyone who searches the internet. -----Original Message----- From: minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of SANDY FAIRCHILD Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM To: Minnesota Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index Hello listers, Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! Sandy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wonder personally if there are any statistics available indicating the source of information that identity thieves, stalkers, and other miscellaneous ilk have used to gather the information they use. Bet there is more information available through our medical records, credit cards, telephone company records etc. that thousands and millions of people have access to and we don't give one thought to that as being a source to be concerned about . . . or that is most people don't, they consider it part of doing business daily!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Sullivan" <ksullivan@hvc.rr.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > Identity thief? Stalking? Legal issues? Mind boggling and scary if that > information is available to anyone who searches the internet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of SANDY FAIRCHILD > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM > To: Minnesota > Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > > > Hello listers, > > Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota > Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of > 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the > birth > dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the > genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is > happening! > > Sandy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

well you can't get information about births at any courthouse that I've contacted either, most of them will verify info if you have it all written and they go to the ledger, but some won't even do that much. And this is not just for MN, pick a name to type in on ancestry and look that birth column . . . just lists the state! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Helfert" <khelfert1@comcast.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index >I was always surprised BIG time that they listed this information. I know > when it first went up, I used it like made fearing that it would disappear > at any time. > > If "we" don't include information about folks who are, or presumed to be, > alive when we post a tree, why should we expect Ancestry/Minnesota to post > it on their web site. > > I am sure there were complaints, etc. I know I wasn't thrilled about > having > my birthdate that easily available. Granted it is "public" records, but > that doesn't mean it must be available online. The information isn't lost > to > genealogist, just no longer available on the web. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <co_sandy@msn.com> > To: "Minnesota" <MINNESOTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM > Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > > >> Hello listers, >> >> Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota >> Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of >> 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the >> birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to >> the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is >> happening! >> >> Sandy >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

you mean when they can make up another neat little package of birth dates to sell to us too??? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Hcounter@aol.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > > In a message dated 10/22/2006 1:42:10 PM Central Daylight Time, > co_sandy@msn.com writes: > > Hello listers, > > Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota > Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of > 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the > birth dates > from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the > genealogy > world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! > > Sandy > > > > I doubt that the dates will stay off permantly. I think they are just > trying to comply with current rules and laws, which are changing daily. I > would > imagine that as a date becomes older than current rules/laws specify as > private they will again show. > > There was a discussion about the dates being available on a tech list a > while back and how you could use the dates from the mnhs.org site, plus > the dates > from the ancestry site, plus the dates from the public records index and > end > up with nearly all the dates needed for your family tree, plus the > mother's > names. There were several people who were horrified by the idea, and I > really agreed with them. I haven't finished updating my MN families, but > really > consider it better that this was done, even if delays getting some of > that > info into my trees. To me is not that much of a loss. If I cannot get > the info > from living family, then I consider that they would prefer the info not > be > outside the family and that is something I have to respect. And really > most > of the people from that database would be living. For the ones who are > not, > you can pick up their birthdates from the death records and the SSDI. > When I > first saw it, I spent alot of time updating my families, just as I did > when > the CA database first went up, as I did not expect either to stay up, and > the > CA one did not, now this one has not. > > We know the database exists, so the info will become available at an > appropriate time, it will not be destroyed, just not put online until a > later time. > > Annie in Minnesota > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I was always surprised BIG time that they listed this information. I know when it first went up, I used it like made fearing that it would disappear at any time. If "we" don't include information about folks who are, or presumed to be, alive when we post a tree, why should we expect Ancestry/Minnesota to post it on their web site. I am sure there were complaints, etc. I know I wasn't thrilled about having my birthdate that easily available. Granted it is "public" records, but that doesn't mean it must be available online. The information isn't lost to genealogist, just no longer available on the web. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <co_sandy@msn.com> To: "Minnesota" <MINNESOTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > Hello listers, > > Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota > Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of > 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the > birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to > the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is > happening! > > Sandy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 10/22/2006 1:42:10 PM Central Daylight Time, co_sandy@msn.com writes: Hello listers, Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! Sandy I doubt that the dates will stay off permantly. I think they are just trying to comply with current rules and laws, which are changing daily. I would imagine that as a date becomes older than current rules/laws specify as private they will again show. There was a discussion about the dates being available on a tech list a while back and how you could use the dates from the mnhs.org site, plus the dates from the ancestry site, plus the dates from the public records index and end up with nearly all the dates needed for your family tree, plus the mother's names. There were several people who were horrified by the idea, and I really agreed with them. I haven't finished updating my MN families, but really consider it better that this was done, even if delays getting some of that info into my trees. To me is not that much of a loss. If I cannot get the info from living family, then I consider that they would prefer the info not be outside the family and that is something I have to respect. And really most of the people from that database would be living. For the ones who are not, you can pick up their birthdates from the death records and the SSDI. When I first saw it, I spent alot of time updating my families, just as I did when the CA database first went up, as I did not expect either to stay up, and the CA one did not, now this one has not. We know the database exists, so the info will become available at an appropriate time, it will not be destroyed, just not put online until a later time. Annie in Minnesota

Is anyone noticing it on other sites too?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donal O'Kelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com>; "Minnesota" <MINNESOTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > Deletion of birthdates theory on why? > > Could it be a legal problem, or perhaps done so more records can be sold. > > Just money perhaps? > > Would it help to ask them why? > > Don > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have noticed this on other public records on their site too . . . it has completely removed the possibility of figuring out which generation are the parents and which might be children etc., so has made the information the next thing to useless for me in the past few days. Jeanine ----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <co_sandy@msn.com> To: "Minnesota" <MINNESOTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: [MINNESOTA] Minnesota Birth Index > Hello listers, > > Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota > Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of > 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the > birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to > the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is > happening! > > Sandy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello listers, Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is happening! Sandy

----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <co_sandy@msn.com> > Has anyone else noticed the deletion of all birth dates on the Minnesota > Birth Index at Ancestry.com? This is the one that covers the period of > 1935-2002. In checking, it appears as though Ancestry is deleting the > birth dates from other databases as well, which represents a huge loss to > the genealogy world.Am wondering if anyone has thoughts about why this is > happening! > Others have noticed. There are entire databases disappearing http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ancestry.ancsite

Deletion of birthdates theory on why? Could it be a legal problem, or perhaps done so more records can be sold. Just money perhaps? Would it help to ask them why? Don