HI BETH, Did any of the volunteers get back to you on the City Directories? I'm thinking that I need to expand the Letiz name to like Litz (the way my grandmother spelled it on some info. that she gave me) Lietz etc. or have you done that too? I'm beginning to wonder if they George and Euphemia ever legally married. William is Euphemia's father. The Cedar street address either 271 or 274 does list them together and her sister is with them or was it her mother. I think William was a machinist could have worked for railroad too. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, Sandy > Birth certificates for William and Margery > > -- you first have to discover exactly when and where they were born. In > small little towns you can call or write to the county courthouse for the > town, and they may look it up for you. But... I think they were born in > Minneapolis, as William said on his World War 1 draft record, and that > would > be more difficult. Minneapolis is in Hennepin County. There are a lot of > volunteers who might look up the information for you. Minneapolis (I > think > actually in St. Paul) has a huge Minnesota Historical Society with all > kinds > of historical records. I spent a couple of days there researching my > family > when I traveled to Minnesota with my daughter. > > -- World War 1 draft... I have a great uncle who registered while living > and working in Calgary, Canada. (family was in Ohio) He had to fight in > a > Canadian unit, and is said to have died in France. I've been struggling > to > figure that one out as I can't find anything about him after his draft > registration. The actual records of soldiers in WW1 have not been made > public. > > I can look for William T in Canadian records, if you would like. > > --- the RAOGK volunteer is NOT ALLOWED to ask for money, except for a > dollar > or two for gas, photos of tombstones, photocopies, postage stamp, etc. > > --- directory -- I emailed a volunteer already about looking for the > family > in Minneapolis directories from 1892 - 1900. She hasn't gotten back to me > yet. No LETIZ names at all in any directory, which leads me to believe > the > correct spelling is LEITZ. > > I have access to a couple of the Minneapolis directories on the internet > through my local library system, but none for the years which might list > Euphemia and husband Leitz. > > Here are all Leitz and Tweedies in the directories I have access to: > > 1882 --- No LEITZ. > > TWEEDIE, William, mach (machinist? ) C. M. and St. P. lives at 1815 S > 7th. > > 1885 - 1886 ----LEITZ Frank J. sales, lives at 814 SE 6th. Fred C., > cabinetmaker, 814 SE 6th. William, superintendant Northwestern Casket > Co., > 814 SE 6th. > > TWEEDIE Wm, mach. lives at 265 Cedar av. > > 1886 - 1887 --- LEITZ Frank J, traveling agent livest at 615 7th av SE. > Fred C., emp. NW Casket Co, same address. Wm. sup NW Casket Co, same > address. Wm. Jr., emp NW Casket Co, same address. > > TWEEDIE Mary, Miss, milliner, lives at 274 Cedar Av. William, foreman > motor > round house, 271 Cedar Ave [I think it should be 274..]. William, Mrs., > millinery store at 274 Cedar Ave. lives at same address. > > 1889 - 1891 --- TWEEDIE Miss Euphemia G., clerk, lives 271 Cedar Ave. > [hmm.. was it 271 or 271 Cedar where they lived and worked?]. Mrs. > Marjory, milliner, 271 Cedar. Wm, engineer, 271 Cedar. > > LEITZ Frank J, trav agent, 626 E 15th. Frederick C, finisher 814 SE 6th. > George L, same address. John F, finisher, same. Kate, domestic servant, > no > address. Wm., superintendent, 814 SE 6th. > > In the 1900 census for Minneapolis, the adult Leitz men are William and > Frank, which leaves the George, Fred and John listed in the 1889 city > directory as "missing". That doesn't really help narrow down which of > them > might have been Euphemia's husband. > ------------------------------------ > > I see online that Minneapolis had a city directory for each year in the > 1890s. Let's hope the one volunteer gets back to me. > > More soon, > > Beth > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My experience with the SSA went better than I could expect. My grandfather, born 1892 and died 1969, had filed for a number in 1936 when first the numbers were assigned. The information I received was very close if not matching to what Ron had said earlier with exception to one piece of information. The form I received included everything mentioned in Ron's explanation over the form with added and expected occupation at the time of his filing. It shocked me; it was not what I had been told his employment was during the time frame he filed for his SSN. As for cost, I can not recall exactly however, I believe it was the higher number listed by Ron as to what I had to pay for a copy of Grandpa's SS-filing form. Shelia -----Original Message----- From: minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:minnesota-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ron Bestrom Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 5:11 PM To: minnesota@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 >I was told that what I got was ALL that was available . . . and because it > was the only time I ever ordered one, I was not impressed. I understand your frustration. I don't know when your person may have applied for their SSN, but the Social Security Administration handles millions of applications...(we have now 300 million citizens). They receive thousands of such requests yearly. At the time you requested, someone else may have requested the same file, thus it couldn't be found. Or, at some point the application had been lost. It happens. Also, since you had ordered just the computer extract, that was all they were required to provide, "all that is available". They can not set up a file for "awaiting further payment", or send documents COD. The SSA's responsibility for genealogy research is not part of their Congressionally mandated responsibilities, so for budget, they don't receive the additional thousands of dollars to perform those duties. So, there is also a long delay in receiving those documents. Again, I'm sorry for your experience. (I am not an employee of the SSA). ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

After my Dad died I checked the SSA death index to see if they had it right. The record was off by several days. I had to take a certified copy of the death certificate to the SSA office for them to correct it. It took 5 or 6 months to get corrected. Lafe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940

Jeanine, I haven't - I didn't know that but will check it out. The message from Joe was information he found when searching for his family. Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Good morning Virginia, > I just had another thought . . . most states did census between the years > of > the federal census . . . have you checked with the state to see if they > might have . . . can't remember the years that are confused now, but am > thinking 1881 and 1887 . . . so if there is an 1885 state census??? > Jeanine > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan >> to >> contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more >> information >> for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how >> he >> wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. >> >> Thanks, >> Virginia >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> >> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> >>> >>> >>>> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >>>> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >>>> toward >>>> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at >>>> that >>>> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >>>> to >>>> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to >>>> match?? >>>> >>>> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >>>> may >>>> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that >>>> SS >>>> payment toward the funeral . . . >>> >>> First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or >>> information, contact your local Social Security Administration for >>> guidance. >>> >>> But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. >>> As >>> far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I >>> would >>> "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security >>> Number >>> and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a >>> Social >>> Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth >>> of >>> December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the >>> same >>> name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security >>> Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think >>> that >>> they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require >>> EXACT >>> confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of >>> accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and >>> then >>> later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an >>> investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't >>> think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should >>> they, >>> that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original >>> application versus the final death information. In a large number of >>> cases, >>> someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even >>> family >>> they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't >>> remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can >>> change. >>> >>> The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over >>> the >>> years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the >>> rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to >>> surviving >>> children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of >>> burial and methods could be a part of the payment. >>> >>> This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. >>> https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 >>> >>> The amount could not exceed $255.00. >>> >>> As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, >>> only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain >>> by >>> funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments >>> had >>> been made entirely by the family. >>> >>> AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their >>> local >>> Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to >>> be >>> paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between >>> the >>> dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death >>> data; >>> but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- >> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Hi, Just to let you know, that I had quite a large reponse to Rikhard's list. Since many of our families altererd their name spellings, Kalle to Carl, Juho to John etc you may not recoginze a name as family. If any of you have someone to add to the list or need to ask Rikhard a question , I can give you his email address privately. A film has been made about this. http://www.illume.fi/Englanninkielinen/Pages/Films/karelian%20terror.engl.html Regards, Alicia Marshall

Good morning Virginia, I just had another thought . . . most states did census between the years of the federal census . . . have you checked with the state to see if they might have . . . can't remember the years that are confused now, but am thinking 1881 and 1887 . . . so if there is an 1885 state census??? Jeanine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan > to > contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more > information > for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how > he > wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. > > Thanks, > Virginia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> >> >> >>> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >>> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >>> toward >>> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at >>> that >>> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >>> to >>> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to >>> match?? >>> >>> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >>> may >>> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS >>> payment toward the funeral . . . >> >> First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or >> information, contact your local Social Security Administration for >> guidance. >> >> But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. >> As >> far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I >> would >> "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number >> and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a >> Social >> Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth >> of >> December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same >> name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security >> Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think >> that >> they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require >> EXACT >> confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of >> accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and >> then >> later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an >> investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't >> think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, >> that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original >> application versus the final death information. In a large number of >> cases, >> someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even >> family >> they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't >> remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can >> change. >> >> The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over >> the >> years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the >> rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to >> surviving >> children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of >> burial and methods could be a part of the payment. >> >> This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. >> https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 >> >> The amount could not exceed $255.00. >> >> As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, >> only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain >> by >> funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments >> had >> been made entirely by the family. >> >> AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their >> local >> Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to >> be >> paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between >> the >> dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; >> but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks to all of you for informing and advising me on what to do. I plan to contact the funeral home again Monday and try to press for more information for these old records. Then I will talk to my father-in-law and see how he wants me to follow-up with the SS. I do appreciate all your help. Thanks, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > > >> Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home >> needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay >> toward >> the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at that >> time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have >> to >> figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to match?? >> >> In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that >> may >> not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS >> payment toward the funeral . . . > > First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or > information, contact your local Social Security Administration for > guidance. > > But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. As > far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I > would > "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number > and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a Social > Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth > of > December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same > name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security > Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think > that > they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require > EXACT > confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of > accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and then > later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an > investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't > think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, > that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original > application versus the final death information. In a large number of > cases, > someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even > family > they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't > remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can > change. > > The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over the > years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the > rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to > surviving > children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of > burial and methods could be a part of the payment. > > This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. > https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 > > The amount could not exceed $255.00. > > As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, > only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain > by > funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments > had > been made entirely by the family. > > AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their > local > Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to be > paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between > the > dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; > but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. > > Ron > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Joe/Sandy Yes, when she died my father-in-law gave the information. I contacted the funeral home that supposedly bought out the old home but they haven't called back yet. Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: <joe.sandy@comcast.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > SO DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DIED? COULD ASK FOR AN OBIT. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> Ron, I didn't get her death certificate because her son is still living >> and >> he would have given the information to the funeral home. I figure the SS >> App. would be something she had to fill out. It is probably a good idea >> anyway to do it. >> >> Thanks, >> Virginia >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> >> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> >>> >>> >>>> Thanks Ron. Yes, she died in 1969. The index shows her birthday as >>>> 1887 >>>> but I think it might have been 1881. I'm trying to get information on >>>> her >>>> parents, etc. I haven't been able to find a birth certificate for her. >>>> Guess it might be worthwhile sending for it. >>> >>> You may have done this; but, have you obtained her death certificate? >>> I'm >>> not familiar with the Minnesota ones, but some states include the names >>> of >>> the parents. The Social Security Death Index obtains its information >>> from >>> Minnesota through the Office of Vital Statistics, Minnesota Department >>> of >>> Health, or through the local funeral homes via computer...voluntarily. >>> Below are portions of a posting I made on another list, (I redacted >>> parts >>> not applicable): >>> >>> Good Luck >>> >>> The Minnesota Death Certificate Index: >>> http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm has Frequently Asked Question >>> (FAQ) >>> link, ... But, Listers...It is a good site to find deceased if you >>> hadn't >>> seen it before. It also leads to a Birth Index for births 1900-1916. >>> >>> That site did indicate: "The certificate was registered with the local >>> county registrar and the original copy sent to the Office of Vital >>> Statistics, Minnesota Department of Health". I went to their site: >>> http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm?bhcp=1 I did a search for "SSN". >>> This window: >>> http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/deathreg/ssap.html >>> might answer the question. It also identifies the form "SSA-721" is >>> voluntary. The SSA-721 is "The Statement of Death by the Funeral >>> Director". >>> As these windows indicate, when a funeral director reports a death to >>> the >>> Minnesota Department of Vital Statistics, it is automatically sent to >>> the >>> SSA, or they fax one directly to the SSA. >>> >>> So, I'm "assuming" the reporting to the SSA of a persons death is not >>> due >>> to >>> the issuance of a Death Certificate, it is due to the funeral home >>> inputting >>> that information in the state computer system, or sending a fax to the >>> SSA. >>> But, it also indicates the report is voluntary. BUT, I'm "guessing", it >>> would behoove the funeral directors to forward the form...if that >>> initiates >>> the death payment. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- >> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay toward the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at that time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have to figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to match?? In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that may not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS payment toward the funeral . . . Thanks, Jeanine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <joe.sandy@comcast.net> > > >> SO DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DIED? COULD ASK FOR AN OBIT. > > Her son completed the data for the Death Certificate and also would have > had > the input for any obituary. It appears the family do not have the > information. An obituary is probably one of the last bonifide sources to > look for truth, as most of the information is usually provided by a family > member to a funeral home. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'll defer to Ron on this because he is far more knowledgeable than I regarding what should be available to you. however, I would sure get someone to look while you are on the phone and tell you if the birth year is on it before I'd send them a check!! If you can go to the nearest social security office and speak with someone, that might even be the best way to handle it . . . but go with whatever Ron explains to do . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Jeanine & Ron, So are you saying that even if I send for the exact form I > won't get all the original information? I just need to have proof of > where > she was born and when - since I can't go by the different ages she gave on > the census. I found no information that they ever lived in Bellville, IL > where she claimed to be born and I'm only sure of the month and date that > she used consistently. Any advice? > > Thanks, Virginia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:22 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> >> >>> You don't just get copies of whatever is in the file, you get only what >>> they have >>> committed to the computer, or at least that is all I got . . . it was >>> one >>> page with no more >>> information than I had in the first place; however, many other people >>> tell >>> me they have learned much more than I did. >> >> Jeanine, you must have ordered the computer extract for $16.00 (current >> cost). If you would have ordered the exact copy, you would have received >> a >> machine copy of the exact form your person wrote on (or typed) when they >> applied for their SSN. >> >> As far as other information, most of the claim information is destroyed >> about three years after the death of the person. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > Ron . . . another question . . . when someone dies and the funeral home > needs to apply to Social Security for whatever amount they will pay toward > the funeral etc., would there not be some exchange of information at that > time and if they have varying birth years on record, wouldn't they have to > figure out what is going on at that time and get their records to match?? > > In this case however, I believe the other spouse had died first so that > may > not have happened because there would be no spouse left to claim that SS > payment toward the funeral . . . First, let me say, if there is a family disagreement over birth years or information, contact your local Social Security Administration for guidance. But, remember, the SSA is NOT an agency for correct genealogy records. As far as records matching, I can not say what verifications are made. I would "assume" that the funeral homes would identify the Social Security Number and the name of the deceased. If a SSA record of a person having a Social Security Number had an SSN application that documented the date of birth of December 1, 1920, and the funeral home said the same SSN was for the same name with DOB of December 10, 1925, I would "Guess" the Social Security Death Index would indicate the latter date of birth. I would not think that they would look at the SSN application and the Death data and require EXACT confirmation. It would be too long of a process, without any benefit of accuracy. IF, someone using a SSN was identified as having died, and then later someone claimed benefits under the same SSN, there WOULD be an investigation to determine just who was claiming the benefits. I don't think the Social Security Administration would not care, nor should they, that someone's exact birth date is not the same as in the original application versus the final death information. In a large number of cases, someone applies for a SSN, and in later years decides to lie to even family they are younger; or through injury or disease (Alzheimer's) they don't remember when they were born, there are no records, etc., DOB's can change. The Social Security Death payment rules changed a couple of times over the years (Blame or praise Congress, as they are the ones that change the rules). For a period of time, the death payment could be paid to surviving children if they paid for the burial, not the funeral. So, the year of burial and methods could be a part of the payment. This was the rule the last time that I researched the process. https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0900711050 The amount could not exceed $255.00. As far as the receipt of the death payment. To me, no proof identified, only suspicion, this system seems to have a potential of fraudulent gain by funeral company's to claim the death payments, even though the payments had been made entirely by the family. AGAIN, as far as ANY individual claims, everyone should contact their local Social Security Administration office to determine what benefits are to be paid and to whom. You should ask the SSA about any differences between the dates of birth in the original application and the DOB in the death data; but, I don't believe they will indicate any reason to verify them. Ron

OKAY IT WAS JUST AN IDEA, AS I GOT THE NAME OF THE FUNERAL HOME AND GOT SOME VALUABLE INFO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <joe.sandy@comcast.net> > > >> SO DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DIED? COULD ASK FOR AN OBIT. > > Her son completed the data for the Death Certificate and also would have > had > the input for any obituary. It appears the family do not have the > information. An obituary is probably one of the last bonifide sources to > look for truth, as most of the information is usually provided by a family > member to a funeral home. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jeanine & Ron, So are you saying that even if I send for the exact form I won't get all the original information? I just need to have proof of where she was born and when - since I can't go by the different ages she gave on the census. I found no information that they ever lived in Bellville, IL where she claimed to be born and I'm only sure of the month and date that she used consistently. Any advice? Thanks, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > >> You don't just get copies of whatever is in the file, you get only what >> they have >> committed to the computer, or at least that is all I got . . . it was one >> page with no more >> information than I had in the first place; however, many other people >> tell >> me they have learned much more than I did. > > Jeanine, you must have ordered the computer extract for $16.00 (current > cost). If you would have ordered the exact copy, you would have received > a > machine copy of the exact form your person wrote on (or typed) when they > applied for their SSN. > > As far as other information, most of the claim information is destroyed > about three years after the death of the person. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Thanks Alicia. I appreciate the information. Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alicia Koski-Marshall" <alicia@chartermi.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Hi Virginia, > I found this on the Soc. Sec. Site: > Q9: What information is available from Social Security records to help in > genealogical research? > > A: You might want to start by checking out the Social Security Death > Index > which is available online from a variety of commercial services (usually > the > search is free). The Death Index contains a listing of persons who had a > Social Security number, who are deceased, and whose death was reported to > the Social Security Administration. (The information in the Death Index > for > people who died prior to 1962 is sketchy since SSA's death information was > not automated before that date. Death information for persons who died > before 1962 is generally only in the Death Index if the death was actually > reported to SSA after 1962, even though the death occurred prior to that > year.) > > If you find a person in the Death Index you will learn the date of birth > and > Social Security Number for that person. (The Social Security Death Index > is > not published by SSA for public use, but is made available by commercial > entities using information from SSA records. We do not offer support of > these commercial products nor can we answer questions about the material > in > the Death Index.) > > Other records potentially available from SSA include the Application for a > Social Security Number (form SS-5). To obtain any information from SSA you > will need to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. > http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html > Regards, > Alicia Marshall > > > >> Does anyone know what information I might find by sending for a copy of a >> Soc. Sec. Application for a person who probably started collecting >> between >> 1940 and 1950? I know that you have to have a copy of your birth >> certificate now but probably then many people did not have one. >> >> I really appreciate all advice and information on this. >> >> Thanks, >> Virginia >> >> virgpat@usfamily.net >> >> >> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- >> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

Ron, I didn't get her death certificate because her son is still living and he would have given the information to the funeral home. I figure the SS App. would be something she had to fill out. It is probably a good idea anyway to do it. Thanks, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> > > >> Thanks Ron. Yes, she died in 1969. The index shows her birthday as 1887 >> but I think it might have been 1881. I'm trying to get information on >> her >> parents, etc. I haven't been able to find a birth certificate for her. >> Guess it might be worthwhile sending for it. > > You may have done this; but, have you obtained her death certificate? I'm > not familiar with the Minnesota ones, but some states include the names of > the parents. The Social Security Death Index obtains its information from > Minnesota through the Office of Vital Statistics, Minnesota Department of > Health, or through the local funeral homes via computer...voluntarily. > Below are portions of a posting I made on another list, (I redacted parts > not applicable): > > Good Luck > > The Minnesota Death Certificate Index: > http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm has Frequently Asked Question > (FAQ) > link, ... But, Listers...It is a good site to find deceased if you hadn't > seen it before. It also leads to a Birth Index for births 1900-1916. > > That site did indicate: "The certificate was registered with the local > county registrar and the original copy sent to the Office of Vital > Statistics, Minnesota Department of Health". I went to their site: > http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm?bhcp=1 I did a search for "SSN". > This window: http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/deathreg/ssap.html > might answer the question. It also identifies the form "SSA-721" is > voluntary. The SSA-721 is "The Statement of Death by the Funeral > Director". > As these windows indicate, when a funeral director reports a death to the > Minnesota Department of Vital Statistics, it is automatically sent to the > SSA, or they fax one directly to the SSA. > > So, I'm "assuming" the reporting to the SSA of a persons death is not due > to > the issuance of a Death Certificate, it is due to the funeral home > inputting > that information in the state computer system, or sending a fax to the > SSA. > But, it also indicates the report is voluntary. BUT, I'm "guessing", it > would behoove the funeral directors to forward the form...if that > initiates > the death payment. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

----- Original Message ----- From: <joe.sandy@comcast.net> > SO DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DIED? COULD ASK FOR AN OBIT. Her son completed the data for the Death Certificate and also would have had the input for any obituary. It appears the family do not have the information. An obituary is probably one of the last bonifide sources to look for truth, as most of the information is usually provided by a family member to a funeral home.

SO DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DIED? COULD ASK FOR AN OBIT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Ron, I didn't get her death certificate because her son is still living > and > he would have given the information to the funeral home. I figure the SS > App. would be something she had to fill out. It is probably a good idea > anyway to do it. > > Thanks, > Virginia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> > To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:04 PM > Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> >> >> >>> Thanks Ron. Yes, she died in 1969. The index shows her birthday as >>> 1887 >>> but I think it might have been 1881. I'm trying to get information on >>> her >>> parents, etc. I haven't been able to find a birth certificate for her. >>> Guess it might be worthwhile sending for it. >> >> You may have done this; but, have you obtained her death certificate? >> I'm >> not familiar with the Minnesota ones, but some states include the names >> of >> the parents. The Social Security Death Index obtains its information >> from >> Minnesota through the Office of Vital Statistics, Minnesota Department of >> Health, or through the local funeral homes via computer...voluntarily. >> Below are portions of a posting I made on another list, (I redacted parts >> not applicable): >> >> Good Luck >> >> The Minnesota Death Certificate Index: >> http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm has Frequently Asked Question >> (FAQ) >> link, ... But, Listers...It is a good site to find deceased if you hadn't >> seen it before. It also leads to a Birth Index for births 1900-1916. >> >> That site did indicate: "The certificate was registered with the local >> county registrar and the original copy sent to the Office of Vital >> Statistics, Minnesota Department of Health". I went to their site: >> http://people.mnhs.org/dci/search.cfm?bhcp=1 I did a search for "SSN". >> This window: >> http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/deathreg/ssap.html >> might answer the question. It also identifies the form "SSA-721" is >> voluntary. The SSA-721 is "The Statement of Death by the Funeral >> Director". >> As these windows indicate, when a funeral director reports a death to the >> Minnesota Department of Vital Statistics, it is automatically sent to the >> SSA, or they fax one directly to the SSA. >> >> So, I'm "assuming" the reporting to the SSA of a persons death is not due >> to >> the issuance of a Death Certificate, it is due to the funeral home >> inputting >> that information in the state computer system, or sending a fax to the >> SSA. >> But, it also indicates the report is voluntary. BUT, I'm "guessing", it >> would behoove the funeral directors to forward the form...if that >> initiates >> the death payment. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > Jeanine & Ron, So are you saying that even if I send for the exact form I > won't get all the original information? I just need to have proof of > where > she was born and when - since I can't go by the different ages she gave on > the census. I found no information that they ever lived in Bellville, IL > where she claimed to be born and I'm only sure of the month and date that > she used consistently. Any advice? > If you order just the computer extract, that is all you will get. An extract is just a computer printout of the information that is on the Form SS-5. If you just order the computer extract, that is ALL you will get. If you want a copy of the EXACT form submitted by the applicant and pay the $27.00, you will get a print out of the form. The forms themselves are "probably" on microfilm/microfiche and listed in order by Social Security Number (SSN). If you send for a copy of the exact form and it is there, all you will get is a copy of the original Form SS-5. They do not keep records of payments more than three years after the death of the insured. There is no additional original information kept. The Social Security Administration (SSA) is not a genealogy based agency. They ONLY keep a copy of the original application, or a computer extract of that information for a record of that SSN being issued and to whom. The so called "Social Security Death Index" is NOT a product of the SSA. It is the Death Master File produced by the SSA. It is sold to genealogy companies that put the data in their databases. You can order the database yourself, as well as the updates; but the cost would be very high. The SSA produces the Death Master File for the purpose of that information of DECEASED person SSN's to be available to banks and other financial institutions to verify SSN's being active. There are so many attempts to use deceased SSN's fraudulently by US citizens AND illegal aliens. The SSA also provides this database to the Internal Revenue Service to verify taxpayer identity and also to stop fraudulent tax returns from receiving payments. This list is also available to various other Governmental agencies to verify the identity of government employees, applicants, etc. The SSA does not keep ANY additional documents on file, i.e. birth certificates. This is, first, to avoid those documents themselves being used in fraudulent claims. Second, if they did hold such documents, they could not release them as under governmental rules, only the original holder of identification documents can release them. So, unless the person has died in the past three years, the only documents you can receive are: 1. A computer extract, just a type printed list of information on the SS-5 2. A copy of the exact SS-5 in the applicants own handwriting or typed, with their own signature. Again, good luck. Ron Bestrom

I was told that what I got was ALL that was available . . . and because it was the only time I ever ordered one, I was not impressed. I spoke with them on the phone, and I also emailed them, spoke with various people and was assured that I would get all that was in the file . . . well come to find out, apparently I did, it just wasn't anything more than I already knew!! What made it even worse is that I was getting it for a cousin Sweden who had asked for whatever information I could find, and was almost embarrassing that there was no hand written app with the information as I had been told there would be . . . it was after the fact that I called and emailed and was told SORRY, that's all we have!! Was definitely not worth the $16 that I paid for it as I gained nothing . . . but it was a lesson learned so will certainly ask more questions before ever doing that again!! Thanks for your input. I know that sometimes I have a sour answer because of not having a good experience, BUT others can have those same things happen to them, so best to be forewarned and forearmed as they say!! Jeanine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bestrom" <RBestrom@earthlink.net> To: <minnesota@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [MINNESOTA] Social Security Application - abt. 1940 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanine Reckinger" <jreck@ecenet.com> > >> You don't just get copies of whatever is in the file, you get only what >> they have >> committed to the computer, or at least that is all I got . . . it was one >> page with no more >> information than I had in the first place; however, many other people >> tell >> me they have learned much more than I did. > > Jeanine, you must have ordered the computer extract for $16.00 (current > cost). If you would have ordered the exact copy, you would have received > a > machine copy of the exact form your person wrote on (or typed) when they > applied for their SSN. > > As far as other information, most of the claim information is destroyed > about three years after the death of the person. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MINNESOTA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Patricelli" <virgpat@usfamily.net> > Ron, I didn't get her death certificate because her son is still living > and > he would have given the information to the funeral home. Okay...good luck !