Opps sorry Pat, of course you can't order the record without the date!!!! My fingers were moving faster than my brain. So how about this... There is a Horace Barber that died 17 Dec 1872 in Monroe with the fathers name Barbar. Maybe this will help.....in a round about way!! Sorry about the mistake Sue _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa