This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/HGB.2ACI/471.1.1 Message Board Post: Just wanted to add here as per my miniscule knowledge of Ojibway/Chippewa language, that Susanne's last name, her native name, probably ends in "kwe". This means "woman" in the Ojibway language. My husband is decended from this couple, too, through Catherine Martin. Now I am confused about Antoine's parentage...are Philip Martin and Marie Felicite Carignan Antoine's parents or godparents???

I believe they are his parents but am not 100% sure. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

As I read the translated baptismal record, the godmother of Antoine, son of Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs," was Marie Felicite (accent on the final "e") Carignan. Madame Carignan was godmother to many children in her time: evident from the other listings in the baptismal record. The godfather of Antoine, son of Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs," was Philippe Soud dit MARTIN. Dit appears frequently in French records of French persons. Its origin is murky to me. I was told that it is akin to the English phrase, "also known as," but does not mean "alias." The entry for 15 June 1794 from which the above information was taken gives the father's name as Antoine Soud. However, the index for the volume in which this entry appears lists the name of "MARTIN, Antoine, dit Soud. . . ." Apparently, there is a blood relationship between the father, Antoine, and the godfather, Philippe, but it is not clear in this entry. There are additional MARTIN entries in the index: Antoine junior, dit Soud; Catherine; Charles; Deborah; Louis; Marie Magdeleine, dit Soud; and Philippe, dit Soud. Stan swickman@twmi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bazinaus@nmo.net> To: <MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/HGB.2ACI/471.1.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Just wanted to add here as per my miniscule knowledge of Ojibway/Chippewa language, that Susanne's last name, her native name, probably ends in "kwe". This means "woman" in the Ojibway language. > My husband is decended from this couple, too, through Catherine Martin. Now I am confused about Antoine's parentage...are Philip Martin and Marie Felicite Carignan Antoine's parents or godparents??? >

Thank you for your input Stan. I read this exactly the same way. Phillipe is most likely a blood relative to Antoine. However, in know way could I say that Phillipe and Marie Felicite Carignan were Antoine's parents, just going by this baptism record. As I've seen this posted on the internet in other family tree's what I was hoping for was another source of reference that someone might have. If not, than the only mention of these individuals that I feel comfortable putting in my family tree would be as a note under this baptism, not as Antoine's parents. -----Original Message----- From: Stan Wickman [mailto:swickman@twmi.rr.com] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:27 AM To: MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin As I read the translated baptismal record, the godmother of Antoine, son of Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs," was Marie Felicite (accent on the final "e") Carignan. Madame Carignan was godmother to many children in her time: evident from the other listings in the baptismal record. The godfather of Antoine, son of Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs," was Philippe Soud dit MARTIN. Dit appears frequently in French records of French persons. Its origin is murky to me. I was told that it is akin to the English phrase, "also known as," but does not mean "alias." The entry for 15 June 1794 from which the above information was taken gives the father's name as Antoine Soud. However, the index for the volume in which this entry appears lists the name of "MARTIN, Antoine, dit Soud. . . ." Apparently, there is a blood relationship between the father, Antoine, and the godfather, Philippe, but it is not clear in this entry. There are additional MARTIN entries in the index: Antoine junior, dit Soud; Catherine; Charles; Deborah; Louis; Marie Magdeleine, dit Soud; and Philippe, dit Soud. Stan swickman@twmi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bazinaus@nmo.net> To: <MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/HGB.2ACI/471.1.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Just wanted to add here as per my miniscule knowledge of Ojibway/Chippewa language, that Susanne's last name, her native name, probably ends in "kwe". This means "woman" in the Ojibway language. > My husband is decended from this couple, too, through Catherine Martin. Now I am confused about Antoine's parentage...are Philip Martin and Marie Felicite Carignan Antoine's parents or godparents??? >

Yes, Larry & Cindy, Philippe Soud and Madame Carignan are only godparents. This is a record of the baptism of Antoine Junior whose parents were Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs." While it may be correct to translate the French word "sauvage" into the English "savage," the French term was not demeaning in that day. It merely described a native of the place who was not instructed and baptized into the Catholic communion. Stan swickman@twmi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Cindy" <larcinmar@cox.net> To: <MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin > > > Thank you for your input Stan. I read this exactly the same way. > Phillipe is most likely a blood relative to Antoine. However, in know > way could I say that Phillipe and Marie Felicite Carignan were Antoine's > parents, just going by this baptism record. > As I've seen this posted on the internet in other family tree's what I > was hoping for was another source of reference that someone might have. > If not, than the only mention of these individuals that I feel > comfortable putting in my family tree would be as a note under this > baptism, not as Antoine's parents. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stan Wickman [mailto:swickman@twmi.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:27 AM > To: MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin > > As I read the translated baptismal record, the godmother of Antoine, son > of > Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the nation of the Sotteurs," was > Marie > Felicite (accent on the final "e") Carignan. Madame Carignan was > godmother > to many children in her time: evident from the other listings in the > baptismal record. > > The godfather of Antoine, son of Antoine Soud and a "woman savage of the > nation of the Sotteurs," was Philippe Soud dit MARTIN. > > Dit appears frequently in French records of French persons. Its origin > is > murky to me. I was told that it is akin to the English phrase, "also > known > as," but does not mean "alias." > > The entry for 15 June 1794 from which the above information was taken > gives > the father's name as Antoine Soud. However, the index for the volume in > which this entry appears lists the name of "MARTIN, Antoine, dit Soud. . > . > ." > > Apparently, there is a blood relationship between the father, Antoine, > and > the godfather, Philippe, but it is not clear in this entry. > > There are additional MARTIN entries in the index: Antoine junior, dit > Soud; > Catherine; Charles; Deborah; Louis; Marie Magdeleine, dit Soud; and > Philippe, dit Soud. > > Stan > swickman@twmi.rr.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <bazinaus@nmo.net> > To: <MIMACKIN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:24 PM > Subject: [MIMac] Re: Antoine Martin > > > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > > Classification: Query > > > > Message Board URL: > > > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/HGB.2ACI/471.1.1 > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > Just wanted to add here as per my miniscule knowledge of > Ojibway/Chippewa > language, that Susanne's last name, her native name, probably ends in > "kwe". > This means "woman" in the Ojibway language. > > My husband is decended from this couple, too, through Catherine > Martin. > Now I am confused about Antoine's parentage...are Philip Martin and > Marie > Felicite Carignan Antoine's parents or godparents??? > > > >