Brigid - Thanks so much. The link worked this time. I have a full membership to Ancestry, so should have access to both Ancesty UK and the U.S. one. I'm just now figuring out how to use the UK one. I read the article, but I still don't understand how Duncan and Elizabeth were married in the College Kirk in Edinburgh as well as fined in Whittingehame for an irregular marriage. If the marriage were performed by someone other than the minister of the church, surely it wouldn't have been recorded in the marriage records? Duncan was fined a second time for another irregular marriage a few years later, so I assume Elizabeth must have died. The Kirk Session record says the same thing about his second marriage, that he and his second wife showed their "lines" from a marriage in Edinburgh. I haven't been able to locate that record though. All very strange. Lynne in Tucson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brigid O'Donnell" <mbod@erols.com> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages Lynne, I just googled "irregular marriages Scotland" (without quotes) and it came up as a hit that I clicked on it went directly to the article. Note that it is on the UK Ancestry site, not the US one. I just tried it from the email I sent and it did go right to the article as well, so I will reattach the link here so you might try it again. Hope this helps, Brigid http://www.ancestry.co.uk/learn/library/article.aspx?article=8397 In case it doesn't work, I am cutting and pasting some of the article below as well: A regular marriage took place before a church minister following the reading of banns. An irregular marriage came about in one of three ways: by mutual agreement, or by a public promise followed by consummation, or by cohabitation and repute. In all cases, for regular and irregular marriages, both bride and groom had to be free to marry, not within forbidden degrees of kinship and over the age of consent (12 for brides and 14 for grooms). Marriage Registers In the Scottish church, "marriage" registers are usually registers of the proclamation of banns; sometimes the marriage is recorded as well. Proclamations were often read in the parishes of the bride and the groom, helpful to genealogists. Sometimes irregular marriages were recorded in the kirk session records because a fine or some other discipline was imposed. In a lot of cases the marriage has no record at all and it has been suggested the rate of unrecorded irregular marriages may be as high as 30 percent (Leneman, L. “Marriage North of the Border”). An Increase in Regular Marriages The number of irregular marriages increased after 1689 when William III and his government approved the disestablishment of the Episcopalian church in Scotland. At least two-thirds of the Episcopal ministers were unemployed and many went to Edinburgh to seek other forms of work. Some went into business marrying people, those who did not want banns proclaimed or chose not to be married in their home parish but wanted some kind of service with a minister. Edinburgh was the center for most irregular marriages and after the 1730s the ministers were not necessarily Episcopal. According to law, a minister performing irregular marriages could be disciplined, even transported. However, this neither stopped the ministers nor put an end to irregular marriages. There was for a time a fashion for marrying in an irregular way. Needless to say, all was not happiness and bliss. There were disputes as to whether a marriage was legal. The Commissary Court of Edinburgh from 1560 to 1830 had the authority to find whether or not a marriage had taken place. Because marriage ceased to be a sacrament in 1560, divorce in Scotland could be granted from that date. The commissary court handled divorce cases as well. Decisions could be appealed to the Court of Session and, after the union with England in 1707, to the House of Lords; obviously a legal route taken only by the wealthy. Conclusion Scottish marriage law allowed couples to keep their options open and they did take advantage of being able to marry irregularly, especially in the 1700s. The numbers dropped in the 1800s and change came in 1939, when only the habit and repute form of irregular marriage continued to be recognized by the law. As for Gretna Green its fame dates from 1754 when Lord Hardwicke's Act came into effect with the purpose of eliminating clandestine marriages in England. Gretna became a popular destination for runaway couples and remained so long after the law changed the residency requirements in 1856. Further Reading "Scottish Ancestry: Research Methods for Family Historians," by Sherry Irvine (Ancestry, 2003) Scottish Family History, by David Moody (GPC, 1988) "Marriage North of the Border," by Leah Leneman, History Today, p. 20-25, April 2002. On Jun 15, 2010, at 6:25 PM, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > Thanks, Bridid. For some reason, I cannot get into the first article > although I am subscribed to Ancestry.com. Is there another way to > view it? > The second article doesn't quite explain why a marriage in one > church would > be considered irregular by another. As far as I know the College > Kirk was a > Church of Scotland church. Would the church in Edinburgh have > allowed a > marriage without banns? > > Lynne in Tucson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brigid O'Donnell" <mbod@erols.com> > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:05 PM > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages > > >> Lynne - >> check this article out for some explanation (no fee required) of >> irregular marriages: >> http://www.ancestry.co.uk/learn/library/article.aspx?article=8397 >> and this: >> http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ >> >> The first article specifically mentions that Edinburgh was the >> "center >> for most irregular marriages" >> >> So one possibility would be if they were married in a church but did >> not have banns called as per usual custom. It was not unusual for a >> couple with an irregular marriage occuring in any one of the 3 or >> more >> ways described, to be called in front of the church elders and fined. >> >> Good luck, >> Brigid >> >> On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Lynne Ingalls wrote: >> >>> Hello - I am new to the list, and I'm wondering if someone could >>> answer a question for me about irregular marriages in Scotland. I >>> found a marriage record for Duncan M'Carter and Elisabeth Simpson on >>> 31 Oct 1796 in Edinburgh. Then I found they were rebuked by the >>> minister in Whittingehame for an irregular marriage. If they were >>> married in a church in Edinburgh, why would they be rebuked by the >>> parish in Whittingehame? And why would they be considered residents >>> in both parishes? >>> M'Carter, Duncan, labourer, College Kirk p., and Elisabeth, same p., >>> d. of deased John Simpson, baker at Dunbar married at Trinity >>> College Kirk, 31 Oct 1796. From the Register of Marriages for the >>> Parish of Edinburgh. >>> >>> Whittingehame Register of Marriage - 1796 Nov 20. The Session >>> being met & constitute by Prayer. Present the Minister Archd Storie >>> & Jas Archibald elders, compear'd before them Duncan McCarter & >>> Elizth Simpson both in the Parish acknowledged their Irregular >>> Marriage and produced their lines dated Edinburgh 31 Oct 1796. They >>> were rebuked by the Minister & exhorted to live as man & wife. >>> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Lynne in Tucson, AZ >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lynne One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage came from the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in Edinburgh only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be married because of parental disapproval. Rhoda