Maybe, if he ended up being that convict - the church records just 'said' she was a widow with children, to help her keep her pride. - just a thought! There were other Duncans in the area, I'll send you a list, when I have more time. Tammy On 18/06/2010 8:45 AM, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > Tony - I was able to find mention of mort cloths for Duncan's children, and > a fee paid for his widow's grave digging in the Parish expenses, but there > was never any mention of Duncan's passing. I find that odd because everyone > else in the family is mentioned, but not him. Of course, a Catholic > wouldn't be buried in the parish grave yard, would he? Or perhaps he died > elsewhere (at sea?), so wasn't mentioned in the expenses. I had never made > the connection to Catholicism before, and it gives me something to think > about. I think I read somewhere that some Irish weavers were brought into > the Dunbar area at one time to work in a new mill there. But, with the > given name 'Duncan', he was probably not Irish. I've now begun to look for > the families of the witnesses at his children's baptisms. Maybe that will > shed a clue as to where Duncan came from originally. > > Thanks again. > > Lynne in Tucson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Burton"<burton-tony@sky.com> > To:<midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:02 AM > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] > Irregularmarriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson > > > >> Hello Lynn, I can't be of much more help I'm afraid. Our 'irregular ' >> took >> place in 1906; a hundred years later than your period of research. >> I do know that marriages between Catholics and Protestants - in Scotland - >> were not all that uncommon, especially after the mid 19th Century when a >> lot >> of immigration of Irish Catholics into Scotland took place. My Wife has >> Irish ancestors on both her paternal& maternal sides who came over to >> Scotland in the mid 1880's. >> Don't read too much into the fact that you can't find evidence of Duncan's >> death or burial. Scottish OPR's are very sparse indeed regarding burials >> and deaths and one is very lucky to find any such evidence before 1855. >> There have always been Catholics in Scotland - more prevalent in some >> areas >> than others - but I would have thought that Edinburgh and East Lothian >> would >> both have had their fair share. >> Do bear in mind Lynn that 'irregular' marriages - although frowned upon by >> the Churches of all denominations - were not as uncommon as many people >> think and that the reasons for them were many and various. Best wishes, >> Tony >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Lynne Ingalls"<Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> >> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:02 PM >> To:<midlothian@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular >> marriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson >> >> >>> Thanks, Tony. A CATHOLIC? This actually might explain a lot of things: >>> why Duncan had two irregular marriages, why there is no burial record for >>> him, why I can't locate a christening record for him. Would the College >>> Kirk in Edinburgh have allowed a marriage between a Catholic and >>> Protetant >>> in the 1790's, early 1800's? Were there Catholics in East Lothian at >>> that >>> time? >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tony Burton"<burton-tony@sky.com> >>> To:<midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:52 AM >>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan >>> M'CarterandElisabethSimpson >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hello Lynne, Our 'irregular marriage' took place in the Edinburgh >>>> Registry >>>> Office in Victoria Place and was between a Catholic and a Protestant. >>>> Yet >>>> another possible reason for not having a 'regular' marriage in a Church. >>>> Best wishes. Tony. >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Lynne Ingalls"<Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM >>>> To:<midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter >>>> andElisabethSimpson >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigid, Tammy, and Rhoda - Thank you each for your comments. It gives >>>>> me >>>>> something to think about - why Duncan would need his banns read >>>>> elsewhere. >>>>> I >>>>> don't know what was in his background that would prevent him from >>>>> having >>>>> banns read at Whittingehame. Like you mentioned, it was quite a trek to >>>>> Edinburgh. Duncan and Elizabeth had a daughter, Jean b. 9 Feb 1798. I >>>>> don't know if Elizabeth and Jean died shortly thereafter, but Duncan >>>>> remarried again in 1802 at Edinburgh to an Agnes Barclay from Dunbar, >>>>> and >>>>> he >>>>> was rebuked and fined again by the Whittingehame parish for another >>>>> irregular marriage. Then later he died and left poor Agnes with 6 - 7 >>>>> kids >>>>> for the parish to support. I wonder if the College Church would have >>>>> published the banns for either/both marriages? I did not find the >>>>> banns >>>>> on-line, only the marriage records. Because I'm trying to find >>>>> Duncan's >>>>> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >>>>> >>>>> Lynne in Tucson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "CandROverson"<overson12@btinternet.com> >>>>> To:<midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:46 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter and >>>>> ElisabethSimpson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Lynne >>>>>> >>>>>> One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage >>>>>> came >>>>>> from >>>>>> the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in >>>>>> Edinburgh >>>>>> only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be >>>>>> married >>>>>> because of parental disapproval. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rhoda >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

For some you can search the kirk session records on NAS website, and then contact them with your info, and what you hope to get out of them. I believe you might be able to get some info that way.. Tammy On 17/06/2010 12:07 PM, Lynne Ingalls wrote: > Fly to Edinburgh and take the bus over to the national archives. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia ann Mallia"<tmallia@xtra.co.nz> > To:<MIDLOTHIAN@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:47 AM > Subject: [MIDLOTHIAN] kirk session records > > > >> how do i get access to Kirk Session Records for midlothian during the >> period of 1750 to 1800? >> >> Trish NZ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

If Duncan abandoned his family would Agnes be listed as being widowed? Jacquie -----Original Message----- From: midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: June 18, 2010 4:46 PM To: midlothian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregularmarriages:Duncan M'CarterandElisabethSimpson With regard to the other records you found about arrests and transportation, the parish expense records show that Duncan's wife, Agnes Barclay was a widow by 1817.

Further to my earlier post (below), that Duncan McCarter/McArthur was transported on the Albion. I found a convict death register entry in New South Wales for Duncan McArthur who was on the Albion. He died in a hospital on 17 Dec 1838 at the age of 62. That would give that Duncan a birth year pretty close to the year of the Duncan in the LDS family tree submission that I referred to. Jacquie -----Original Message----- From: midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jacquie Sent: June 18, 2010 3:38 PM To: midlothian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Duncan M'Carter A possibility that you might want to check out - the National Archives of Scotland has some files regarding a Duncan McCarter/McLearter who was tried for theft. The first file is from 1818 and he is listed as Duncan McLearter, alias McCarter, labourer and hawker, formerly seaman, Address: Glasgow (reference AD14/18/157). There are also two files from 1820 in which he is referred to as Duncan McCarter, Address: Edinburgh (reference AD14/20/85) and as Duncan McCarter, alias McArthur, travelling hawker, Address: Ayrshire (reference AD14/20/184). There is a record at Ancestry for a Duncan McCarter/McArthur who was convicted on 25 Apr 1826 in Glasgow and transported on 21 Sep 1826. The record says his sentence was life. Unfortunately it doesn't say how old that Duncan is in the NAS summaries or on the transportation record. Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada

A possibility that you might want to check out - the National Archives of Scotland has some files regarding a Duncan McCarter/McLearter who was tried for theft. The first file is from 1818 and he is listed as Duncan McLearter, alias McCarter, labourer and hawker, formerly seaman, Address: Glasgow (reference AD14/18/157). There are also two files from 1820 in which he is referred to as Duncan McCarter, Address: Edinburgh (reference AD14/20/85) and as Duncan McCarter, alias McArthur, travelling hawker, Address: Ayrshire (reference AD14/20/184). There is a record at Ancestry for a Duncan McCarter/McArthur who was convicted on 25 Apr 1826 in Glasgow and transported on 21 Sep 1826. The record says his sentence was life. Unfortunately it doesn't say how old that Duncan is in the NAS summaries or on the transportation record. Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada -----Original Message----- From: midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lynne Ingalls Sent: June 18, 2010 10:45 AM To: midlothian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregularmarriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson Tony - I was able to find mention of mort cloths for Duncan's children, and a fee paid for his widow's grave digging in the Parish expenses, but there was never any mention of Duncan's passing. I find that odd because everyone else in the family is mentioned, but not him. Of course, a Catholic wouldn't be buried in the parish grave yard, would he? Or perhaps he died elsewhere (at sea?), so wasn't mentioned in the expenses. I had never made the connection to Catholicism before, and it gives me something to think about. I think I read somewhere that some Irish weavers were brought into the Dunbar area at one time to work in a new mill there. But, with the given name 'Duncan', he was probably not Irish. I've now begun to look for the families of the witnesses at his children's baptisms. Maybe that will shed a clue as to where Duncan came from originally. Thanks again. Lynne in Tucson

Have you searched variations of the name? There is a family tree submitted to the LDS site that lists the parents of Duncan McArthur/McCarter (born 10 Feb 1773 in South Leith) as Duncan McArthur (1741- 6 Mar 1777) and Margaret Drysdale. It lists both marriages you referred to. Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter > andElisabethSimpson > Because I'm trying to find Duncan's >> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >> >> Lynne in Tucson >>

Hi, Jacquie - The family changed the spelling of the surname after emigrating to the U.S. On the shiplog, it was spelled Carter. Several people have submitted the names of Duncan's parents as Duncan McArthur and Margaret Drysdale, however they have no proof other than the time-frame seemed right and they found a married couple by that name. Another group of people have submitted the names Duncan McArthur and Jane Butler. There again, there is no documentation or rationale. I try to contact people who have submitted to FamilySearch to find out what they know and how they found the information. All I know so far is he had a relative named John McCarter (of Moudon or Boudon?) listed as a witness to a baptism. I did find there was a McArthur's store in Dunbar from a very early year, but I have no information about who the owners were or when. The store is now a museum, but the historical society running it has no information about the McArthur family. With regard to the other records you found about arrests and transportation, the parish expense records show that Duncan's wife, Agnes Barclay was a widow by 1817. The parish continued to support Agnes and the children until she died in 1825, and continued to support the orphans until 1827. By that time, the youngest, George McCarter would have been about 10 yrs old and may have been given an apprenticeship somewhere. All of the children except James (who emigrated) continued to spell the surname McCarter. It was only when James reached the U.S. was the spelling changed, and only by his son, John McArthur. Perhaps he thought it sounded more "American." I realize the spelling is phoenitic, and I think a "t" sounds like a "th" when pronounced in Scotland. So, I do look at all types of spelling when doing a search. I am so grateful for the outpouring of help that people on the list have shown. It is incredible. I have begun looking into the names of the witnesses to the baptisms of Duncan's children. Perhaps if I go thru the parish records name by name and try to hook up families to one another, I will find a connection. I'm intrigued that Duncan would have had two irregular marriages in a row. You'd think being rebuked and fined once would have sufficed. Perhaps its a family trait (stubborness at all costs). Thanks again, Lynne in Tucson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mymts.net> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregularmarriages:Duncan M'CarterandElisabethSimpson > Have you searched variations of the name? There is a family tree submitted > to the LDS site that lists the parents of Duncan McArthur/McCarter (born > 10 > Feb 1773 in South Leith) as Duncan McArthur (1741- 6 Mar 1777) and > Margaret > Drysdale. It lists both marriages you referred to. > > Jacquie > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM >> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter >> andElisabethSimpson >> > Because I'm trying to find Duncan's >>> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >>> >>> Lynne in Tucson >>> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lynn, I can't be of much more help I'm afraid. Our 'irregular ' took place in 1906; a hundred years later than your period of research. I do know that marriages between Catholics and Protestants - in Scotland - were not all that uncommon, especially after the mid 19th Century when a lot of immigration of Irish Catholics into Scotland took place. My Wife has Irish ancestors on both her paternal & maternal sides who came over to Scotland in the mid 1880's. Don't read too much into the fact that you can't find evidence of Duncan's death or burial. Scottish OPR's are very sparse indeed regarding burials and deaths and one is very lucky to find any such evidence before 1855. There have always been Catholics in Scotland - more prevalent in some areas than others - but I would have thought that Edinburgh and East Lothian would both have had their fair share. Do bear in mind Lynn that 'irregular' marriages - although frowned upon by the Churches of all denominations - were not as uncommon as many people think and that the reasons for them were many and various. Best wishes, Tony -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:02 PM To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson > Thanks, Tony. A CATHOLIC? This actually might explain a lot of things: > why Duncan had two irregular marriages, why there is no burial record for > him, why I can't locate a christening record for him. Would the College > Kirk in Edinburgh have allowed a marriage between a Catholic and Protetant > in the 1790's, early 1800's? Were there Catholics in East Lothian at that > time? > > Lynne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Burton" <burton-tony@sky.com> > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:52 AM > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan > M'CarterandElisabethSimpson > > >> Hello Lynne, Our 'irregular marriage' took place in the Edinburgh >> Registry >> Office in Victoria Place and was between a Catholic and a Protestant. >> Yet >> another possible reason for not having a 'regular' marriage in a Church. >> Best wishes. Tony. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM >> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter >> andElisabethSimpson >> >>> Brigid, Tammy, and Rhoda - Thank you each for your comments. It gives >>> me >>> something to think about - why Duncan would need his banns read >>> elsewhere. >>> I >>> don't know what was in his background that would prevent him from having >>> banns read at Whittingehame. Like you mentioned, it was quite a trek to >>> Edinburgh. Duncan and Elizabeth had a daughter, Jean b. 9 Feb 1798. I >>> don't know if Elizabeth and Jean died shortly thereafter, but Duncan >>> remarried again in 1802 at Edinburgh to an Agnes Barclay from Dunbar, >>> and >>> he >>> was rebuked and fined again by the Whittingehame parish for another >>> irregular marriage. Then later he died and left poor Agnes with 6 - 7 >>> kids >>> for the parish to support. I wonder if the College Church would have >>> published the banns for either/both marriages? I did not find the banns >>> on-line, only the marriage records. Because I'm trying to find Duncan's >>> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >>> >>> Lynne in Tucson >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >>> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter and >>> ElisabethSimpson >>> >>> >>>> Hello Lynne >>>> >>>> One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage came >>>> from >>>> the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in >>>> Edinburgh >>>> only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be >>>> married >>>> because of parental disapproval. >>>> >>>> Rhoda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tony - I was able to find mention of mort cloths for Duncan's children, and a fee paid for his widow's grave digging in the Parish expenses, but there was never any mention of Duncan's passing. I find that odd because everyone else in the family is mentioned, but not him. Of course, a Catholic wouldn't be buried in the parish grave yard, would he? Or perhaps he died elsewhere (at sea?), so wasn't mentioned in the expenses. I had never made the connection to Catholicism before, and it gives me something to think about. I think I read somewhere that some Irish weavers were brought into the Dunbar area at one time to work in a new mill there. But, with the given name 'Duncan', he was probably not Irish. I've now begun to look for the families of the witnesses at his children's baptisms. Maybe that will shed a clue as to where Duncan came from originally. Thanks again. Lynne in Tucson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Burton" <burton-tony@sky.com> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregularmarriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson > Hello Lynn, I can't be of much more help I'm afraid. Our 'irregular ' > took > place in 1906; a hundred years later than your period of research. > I do know that marriages between Catholics and Protestants - in Scotland - > were not all that uncommon, especially after the mid 19th Century when a > lot > of immigration of Irish Catholics into Scotland took place. My Wife has > Irish ancestors on both her paternal & maternal sides who came over to > Scotland in the mid 1880's. > Don't read too much into the fact that you can't find evidence of Duncan's > death or burial. Scottish OPR's are very sparse indeed regarding burials > and deaths and one is very lucky to find any such evidence before 1855. > There have always been Catholics in Scotland - more prevalent in some > areas > than others - but I would have thought that Edinburgh and East Lothian > would > both have had their fair share. > Do bear in mind Lynn that 'irregular' marriages - although frowned upon by > the Churches of all denominations - were not as uncommon as many people > think and that the reasons for them were many and various. Best wishes, > Tony > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:02 PM > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular > marriages:DuncanM'CarterandElisabethSimpson > >> Thanks, Tony. A CATHOLIC? This actually might explain a lot of things: >> why Duncan had two irregular marriages, why there is no burial record for >> him, why I can't locate a christening record for him. Would the College >> Kirk in Edinburgh have allowed a marriage between a Catholic and >> Protetant >> in the 1790's, early 1800's? Were there Catholics in East Lothian at >> that >> time? >> >> Lynne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tony Burton" <burton-tony@sky.com> >> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:52 AM >> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan >> M'CarterandElisabethSimpson >> >> >>> Hello Lynne, Our 'irregular marriage' took place in the Edinburgh >>> Registry >>> Office in Victoria Place and was between a Catholic and a Protestant. >>> Yet >>> another possible reason for not having a 'regular' marriage in a Church. >>> Best wishes. Tony. >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM >>> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter >>> andElisabethSimpson >>> >>>> Brigid, Tammy, and Rhoda - Thank you each for your comments. It gives >>>> me >>>> something to think about - why Duncan would need his banns read >>>> elsewhere. >>>> I >>>> don't know what was in his background that would prevent him from >>>> having >>>> banns read at Whittingehame. Like you mentioned, it was quite a trek to >>>> Edinburgh. Duncan and Elizabeth had a daughter, Jean b. 9 Feb 1798. I >>>> don't know if Elizabeth and Jean died shortly thereafter, but Duncan >>>> remarried again in 1802 at Edinburgh to an Agnes Barclay from Dunbar, >>>> and >>>> he >>>> was rebuked and fined again by the Whittingehame parish for another >>>> irregular marriage. Then later he died and left poor Agnes with 6 - 7 >>>> kids >>>> for the parish to support. I wonder if the College Church would have >>>> published the banns for either/both marriages? I did not find the >>>> banns >>>> on-line, only the marriage records. Because I'm trying to find >>>> Duncan's >>>> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >>>> >>>> Lynne in Tucson >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >>>> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter and >>>> ElisabethSimpson >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Lynne >>>>> >>>>> One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage >>>>> came >>>>> from >>>>> the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in >>>>> Edinburgh >>>>> only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be >>>>> married >>>>> because of parental disapproval. >>>>> >>>>> Rhoda >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Bob Perhaps you should try posting this on the East Lothian list? Dunbar falls into their remit. For advice on merchant navy records see: http://www.tinyurls.co.uk/K5848 (I hope that works. I found a site that converted the original long URL to short for free) Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "robertgascoigne" <robertgascoigne@cox.net> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: [MIDLOTHIAN] Merchant Marine Masters Papers > Hello List > > I am seeking information on finding Masters papers for the period 1841 to > 1881. How would I find what is available . On the 1841 census I have James > Redpath aged 25 he was listed as Merchant Seaman born in Dunbar, East > Lothian with a wife Ann ? aged 25 and daughter Janet aged 5m. On the 1881 > is a James Redpath With the correct age 67 but now Retired Ships Master, > Born Scotland with two daughters Margaret 48 born Scotland and Beatrice > 39 born Scotland . I believe James is the son of Alexander Redpath and > Beatrix Runciman, if so James was born 22 July 1814 in Dunbar, the next > child to this couple was Martha born 1829 . Alexander was also a Merchant > Seaman before becoming a Policeman in Dunbar .Any information on this > family is welcomed > > > Bob

Rootsweb has a Mariners mailing list. Many of the members are experts on all things marine. The Maritime Museum at Greenwich, down the Thames, has all the records of merchant seamen from when they are apprentices all the way through to Master Mariner. I got copies of the entire career of my ancestor, William Sharp Cobb. The records included every ship, every voyage, every port, exams, promotions, etc. Eileen >> Hello List >> >> I am seeking information on finding Masters papers for the period 1841 >> to >> 1881. How would I find what is available . On the 1841 census I have >> James >> Redpath aged 25 he was listed as Merchant Seaman born in Dunbar, East >> Lothian with a wife Ann ? aged 25 and daughter Janet aged 5m. On the >> 1881 >> is a James Redpath With the correct age 67 but now Retired Ships Master, >> Born Scotland with two daughters Margaret 48 born Scotland and Beatrice >> 39 born Scotland . I believe James is the son of Alexander Redpath and >> Beatrix Runciman, if so James was born 22 July 1814 in Dunbar, the next >> child to this couple was Martha born 1829 . Alexander was also a >> Merchant >> Seaman before becoming a Policeman in Dunbar .Any information on this >> family is welcomed >> >> >> Bob

Not Midlothian, however, I had Janet WILSON & John KING married Irregular marriage in Edinburgh 1791, they were later admonished in their home Parish of Gladsmuir, East Lothian. A sister of John, Helen King, who married William Wilson 1799, also had an irregular Marriage, in Edinburgh , they were said to have produced their Marriage Lines in their Parish of Gladsmuir. It is possible that the above families had an issue with the Minister of their own Parish, or, he had an issue with some of his Parishioners. The information about the 2 couples were from the O.P.R Film of Gladsmuir Parish. Mary -----Original Message----- From: midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:midlothian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2010 10:40 a.m. To: midlothian@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregularmarriages:Duncan M'Carterand ElisabethSimpson Tammy and Lynne I believe that Banns were required to be read in the parish of each of the partners to the marriage. This is what made me think that the marriage would have been deemed 'irregular' if the Banns had not been read in the Parish of Whittinghame being the home parish of one or both of the partners to the marriage. Whittinghame is actually not all that far from Edinburgh - probably between 20 to 30 miles. I am told that in the 1860s/'70s, my Great Grandfather used to walk from his lodgings in Glasgow to his family home in Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire every Friday evening and walk back to Glasgow every Monday morning. That is a distance of about 20 miles. Rhoda __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5202 (20100616) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Is anyone working on any of the following? John PENNINGTON married Margaret DEWAR in Edinburgh in 1845. Their children were: Margaret - 1851 George - 1856 John Lorimer - 1858 (married an Agnes) Alexander McAndrew - 1861 Henry Arthur - 1863 Henry Arthur PENNINGTON married Jessie McQueen ROSS in Edinburgh in 1889. Their known children were: Joseph - abt 1893 Twins - Henry Arthur and James Ross Lawrance, born 7 August 1895. James married Mary WHITE about 1929, probably in Detroit, Michigan. On the 1930 census, Henry was living with them in Detroit. James and Mary had no children. James died in 1984, Mary in 1988 (age 97), both in Michigan. I have much information on Mary WHITE and her siblings and their families (which included my Godparents) and would like to learn more about the Penningtons. I am quite willing to share what I have. Thanks, Irene, in Michigan

Hi Ian, There are a number of ways you may be able to get additional information. What you really need is a willing lister in Tasmania who will do look ups for you. You could try this lady whose email name is Genie she has a website called Genie's Genealogy Help with a big list of the research resources she has including those below. If you ask nicely [I'm sure you would!] she is very obliging. I used the following link to contact her as I had trouble with the website one. c_tillett@yahoo.com.au Her website resources can be viewed here http://geniesgenealogyhelp.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-cd-resources.html TAS Tasmanian Convicts (1 cd) Pioneer Index 1803 - 1899 (1 cd) Tasmanian Federation Index Births 1900-1919 Deaths 1900-1930 Launceston Courier 1840-1842 (1 cd) Carr-Villa Memorial Park – Burials and Cremations (1cd) McPhails Directory of Tasmania 1867-8 (1 cd) If you joined one or both of these lists... AUS-TAS-L mailing list or even the GENANZ mailing list you may find someone on them who is prepared to go look the stuff up for you if need be. Hope this helps Regards Judith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Westergaard" <ian.westergaard@ihug.co.nz> To: "Midlothian List" <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: [MIDLOTHIAN] Children of Matthew & Marion Muir > Hi I am a newcomer to this list. > > I have been trying to solve this mystery for over thirty years and wonder > if anyone on this list can help me. The search has been complicated by > family stories that don't stack up but which all needed to be checked out. > I have also found it extremely difficult to obtain information from > Tasmania. > > This is what I know:- > > Extract of entries in an Old Parochial Register, Parish of Leith (South), > County of Midlothian (Edinburgh) 91877. > > 1823 October 13, Matthew Muir, Shoemaker, Calton, and Marion Carmichael > residing in Calton and daughter of James Carmichael, Cabinet Maker, > Edinburgh, after proclamation of Bans were married by the Rev. Thos. > Aitchison. > > Marion was born/baptised at Saint Cuthbert's, Edinburgh, 13 August 1801. > Matthew was born at Linlithgow 15 November 1799. He was christened Matthew > Bailey MUIR. > > In 1834 Marion and Matthew migrated to Tasmania from Leith. It appears > that > they travelled separately but I have been unable to positively confirm the > following details. > > Matthew travelled on the "Isabella" arriving at Hobart on 23 May 1834 with > two children, James, born before 1829 (he was "Full age" when he married > in > 1850) and Peter, born about 1830 (he was 62 when he died in 1892). > > Marion travelled on the "Numa" arriving at Hobart on 24 October 1834 with > two children, John and Matthew, there was possibly a third, Charles. > Marion > died "after a long and lingering illness" in 1843 from "consumption" which > usually meant tuberculosis. Matthew remarried in 1845 to my gg > grandmother. > > There were "four young children" in 1837 when Matthew wrote to the > Lieutenant Governor requesting that a convict bootmaker be assigned to > him. > I have only been able to trace Peter and John with any certainty - they > were both mentioned in their stepmother's will. > > I have searched Scotland's People several times for any children of > Matthew > and Marion, using as many variant spellings as I can think of, but found > nothing. I have also tried Family Search. > > Are there any other sources that I could search? > > I believe that Matthew and Marion were members of Saint John's > Presbyterian > Church at Hobart but they might not have been adherents of the established > church in Scotland. > > Are there any records available for the dissenting Presbyterian churches? > I > have looked at the LDS Library catalogue but there is so much there that I > don't know where to start, maybe someone can give me some guidance? > > Always hopeful, > > Ian Westergaard, > New Zealand. > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5202 (20100616) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Fly to Edinburgh and take the bus over to the national archives. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia ann Mallia" <tmallia@xtra.co.nz> To: <MIDLOTHIAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:47 AM Subject: [MIDLOTHIAN] kirk session records > how do i get access to Kirk Session Records for midlothian during the > period of 1750 to 1800? > > Trish NZ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Lynne, Our 'irregular marriage' took place in the Edinburgh Registry Office in Victoria Place and was between a Catholic and a Protestant. Yet another possible reason for not having a 'regular' marriage in a Church. Best wishes. Tony. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter andElisabethSimpson > Brigid, Tammy, and Rhoda - Thank you each for your comments. It gives me > something to think about - why Duncan would need his banns read elsewhere. > I > don't know what was in his background that would prevent him from having > banns read at Whittingehame. Like you mentioned, it was quite a trek to > Edinburgh. Duncan and Elizabeth had a daughter, Jean b. 9 Feb 1798. I > don't know if Elizabeth and Jean died shortly thereafter, but Duncan > remarried again in 1802 at Edinburgh to an Agnes Barclay from Dunbar, and > he > was rebuked and fined again by the Whittingehame parish for another > irregular marriage. Then later he died and left poor Agnes with 6 - 7 > kids > for the parish to support. I wonder if the College Church would have > published the banns for either/both marriages? I did not find the banns > on-line, only the marriage records. Because I'm trying to find Duncan's > parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. > > Lynne in Tucson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:46 AM > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter and > ElisabethSimpson > > >> Hello Lynne >> >> One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage came >> from >> the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in >> Edinburgh >> only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be married >> because of parental disapproval. >> >> Rhoda >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

how do i get access to Kirk Session Records for midlothian during the period of 1750 to 1800? Trish NZ

Hello Ian You asked if there are any records available for the dissenting Presbyterian churches? I believe there are but they are not (yet) included on Scotlands People. And I don't know how many of those records may be missing. I know that in Newburgh, Fife, for example, there are several gaps in the coverage of the 'Associate Congregation' records between 1820 and 1850. I seem to remember that some months ago Scotlands People promised that some "exciting" new records would soon be appearing on their site, which I took to mean later this year. Unfortunately they didn't specify what those would be. I don't think they were referring to the 1911 Scotland Census which is due to appear on site next Spring. You could always contact the National Archives of Scotland. See: http://www.nas.gov.uk/contact/default.asp They may be able to advise you what records are available. Rhoda

Hello List I am seeking information on finding Masters papers for the period 1841 to 1881. How would I find what is available . On the 1841 census I have James Redpath aged 25 he was listed as Merchant Seaman born in Dunbar, East Lothian with a wife Ann ? aged 25 and daughter Janet aged 5m. On the 1881 is a James Redpath With the correct age 67 but now Retired Ships Master, Born Scotland with two daughters Margaret 48 born Scotland and Beatrice 39 born Scotland . I believe James is the son of Alexander Redpath and Beatrix Runciman, if so James was born 22 July 1814 in Dunbar, the next child to this couple was Martha born 1829 . Alexander was also a Merchant Seaman before becoming a Policeman in Dunbar .Any information on this family is welcomed Bob

Thanks, Tony. A CATHOLIC? This actually might explain a lot of things: why Duncan had two irregular marriages, why there is no burial record for him, why I can't locate a christening record for him. Would the College Kirk in Edinburgh have allowed a marriage between a Catholic and Protetant in the 1790's, early 1800's? Were there Catholics in East Lothian at that time? Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Burton" <burton-tony@sky.com> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'CarterandElisabethSimpson > Hello Lynne, Our 'irregular marriage' took place in the Edinburgh > Registry > Office in Victoria Place and was between a Catholic and a Protestant. Yet > another possible reason for not having a 'regular' marriage in a Church. > Best wishes. Tony. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Lynne Ingalls" <Lynne.Ingalls@comcast.net> > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:18 PM > To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter > andElisabethSimpson > >> Brigid, Tammy, and Rhoda - Thank you each for your comments. It gives >> me >> something to think about - why Duncan would need his banns read >> elsewhere. >> I >> don't know what was in his background that would prevent him from having >> banns read at Whittingehame. Like you mentioned, it was quite a trek to >> Edinburgh. Duncan and Elizabeth had a daughter, Jean b. 9 Feb 1798. I >> don't know if Elizabeth and Jean died shortly thereafter, but Duncan >> remarried again in 1802 at Edinburgh to an Agnes Barclay from Dunbar, and >> he >> was rebuked and fined again by the Whittingehame parish for another >> irregular marriage. Then later he died and left poor Agnes with 6 - 7 >> kids >> for the parish to support. I wonder if the College Church would have >> published the banns for either/both marriages? I did not find the banns >> on-line, only the marriage records. Because I'm trying to find Duncan's >> parents, I am interested in where he may have originated. >> >> Lynne in Tucson >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >> To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [MIDLOTHIAN] Irregular marriages:Duncan M'Carter and >> ElisabethSimpson >> >> >>> Hello Lynne >>> >>> One explanation is that one or both of the parties to the marriage came >>> from >>> the parish of Whittinghame but that they had their banns read in >>> Edinburgh >>> only. Perhaps they left Whittinghame for Edinburgh in order to be >>> married >>> because of parental disapproval. >>> >>> Rhoda >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDLOTHIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message