Hi listers, While looking for family in the IGI, I found what appears to be a family, but the birth places are slightly different. One says South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland and the other says Leith, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. Are these one and the same or are their two places with similar names??? All help appreciated. Thanks, gretchen Michigan USA

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Thanks, Jim. That's a perfect explanation. I'm sure the children were baptized shortly after their birth. Too bad I only have one page to view. Other pages in the same register would have been more enlightening. Best regards, Jeannette ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmercer" <jmercer@mountaincable.net> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [MLN] OPR records > Hi Jeannette, > I have read that there was poor record keeping in many parishes. In some > cases it was because the government decided that a fee should be charged for > recording births in Parish records. Some ministers were opposed to charging > a fee as many of their parishioners couldn't afford it. Some of these > ministers just stopped recording births / baptisms. In other cases the > people themselves stopped taking their children to be baptized if they > couldn't afford the fee. In 1855 civil records replaced the old parish > records and so there was a rush prior to that date to get as many births > recorded as possible. This led to whole families being recorded > simultaneously. I have seen this in the case of the parish of Middlebie in > Dumfriesshire. Perhaps this is what happened in the case you described. > Cheers, > Jim Mercer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J T Walton" <jtwalton13@comcast.net> > To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:37 PM > Subject: [MLN] OPR records > > > > Hi list, > > I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on > which 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. The dates > range from August 1846 to December 1853. The birth ahead of that is dated > January 1854, and the one following is dated December 1846. They are not > alphabetical. > > Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, > and not chronologically with other births in the parish? Would someone in > the parish have copied these? > > Many thanks, > > Jeannette > > > > >

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On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:40:33 +0000, you wrote: >Greetings i am wondering if anyone has come across the surname Dot, perhaps >Dott. My ancestor was called Ellen Dot and was born in a place called >Linlithgow in about 1810 . Her father was a shoemaker . Any help regarding >this woudl be much appreciated . Many thanks , Paul Power Others have mentioned Professor Norman Dott, but don't be put off, perhaps thinking "a neurological surgeon is hardly likely to be related to my shoemaker". You see, when Norman Dott left school, he was an apprentice joiner! Born in Edinburgh on 26 Aug 1897, Norman McOmish Dott was the son of P McOmish Dott. He went to George Heriot's School in the city, and after being apprenticed first to a joiner and then to an engineer, he accidentally injured his hip in 1913. His treatment made a big impression, and he decided that medicine would now be his career. He joined the Edinburgh University Medical School the following year, and graduated in 1919. During his medical career he specialised in neurological surgery and worked mainly in Edinburgh - at the Deaconess, Chalmers, Astley Ainslie and Western General Hospitals, the Royal Edinburgh Hospital for Sick Children and the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh. In 1932 he married Margaret Robertson and the couple had a daughter. He retired in 1962 and died on 10th December 1973. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson - British Military Genealogical Researcher. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com

Hi everyone, it is my understanding that the Stamp Duty Act applied only to the period of 1783 to 1794. However I have seen this sort of entry time & time again, sometimes family members where inserted in the margins, at the approximate place in the register. Remember, prior to 1855, the CoS was responseable for recording all births in the parish, not just those baptisims performed in the Established Church. I have observed many of what a appear to be "catch up" entries of entire families at the end of many Parishes registers in 1854. I guess it has much to do with the diligence of the session clerk, they were after all supsosed to record all burials and we all know know much that was complied with! cheers John Dods Wellington, New Zealand --- jmercer <jmercer@mountaincable.net> wrote: > Hi Jeannette, > I have read that there was poor record keeping in > many parishes. In some > cases it was because the government decided that a > fee should be charged for > recording births in Parish records. Some ministers > were opposed to charging > a fee as many of their parishioners couldn't afford > it. Some of these > ministers just stopped recording births / baptisms. > In other cases the > people themselves stopped taking their children to > be baptized if they > couldn't afford the fee. <snip> ===== Proud to be a transcriber for the freeCEN Project and volunteer for Random Acts of Geneological Kindness Ask me how you can contribute to either of these worthy projects or for other ways of helping our hobby. Researching BATTERS in Yorkshire BENNIE in Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire & West Lothian BENNING in Lanarkshire & Montreal COLLINS in California & PA COOPER in Yorkshire DODS in East Lothian, Berwickshire, British Columbia, Montreal, Manchester, South Africa, Hong Kong, India DOUGLAS in Lanarkshire FENTON in Edinbugh FISHER in Yorkshire FORREST in South Africa HAYTON in Yorkshire HEWAT in East Lothian LAMONT in Lanarkshire LEGGAT in Monreal MCLEAN in Argyllshire RANKINE in Dunbartonshire, Perthshire SEYMOUR in British Columbia & Montreal SHIRREFF in East Lothian SNELL in California, Oregeon SUFFILL/SUFFIELD in Yorkshire TROTTER, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire, West Lothian WATSON in Brantford & Barrie, Ontario. WEIR in Argyllshire,Lanarkshie WILLIAMSON in Edinburgh & North Berwick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

Hi Jeannette, I have read that there was poor record keeping in many parishes. In some cases it was because the government decided that a fee should be charged for recording births in Parish records. Some ministers were opposed to charging a fee as many of their parishioners couldn't afford it. Some of these ministers just stopped recording births / baptisms. In other cases the people themselves stopped taking their children to be baptized if they couldn't afford the fee. In 1855 civil records replaced the old parish records and so there was a rush prior to that date to get as many births recorded as possible. This led to whole families being recorded simultaneously. I have seen this in the case of the parish of Middlebie in Dumfriesshire. Perhaps this is what happened in the case you described. Cheers, Jim Mercer ----- Original Message ----- From: "J T Walton" <jtwalton13@comcast.net> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: [MLN] OPR records > Hi list, > I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on which 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. The dates range from August 1846 to December 1853. The birth ahead of that is dated January 1854, and the one following is dated December 1846. They are not alphabetical. > Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, and not chronologically with other births in the parish? Would someone in the parish have copied these? > Many thanks, > Jeannette >

On 16/2/05 9:37 pm, "J T Walton" <jtwalton13@comcast.net> wrote: > I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on which > 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. > Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, Could be they were all baptised on the same day .. But sounds like you are saying these are different baptism dates ... Suspect it is a transcript Where did the copy come from? Robin -- Robin and Margaret McEwen-King Lanark Scotland

The copy came from Scots Origins (now Scotland's People). the wording is the same for all entries, all names: James, son of Thomas Thornton and Agnes Waddel spouses at Crofthead, was born 6th March 1850 and baptized. Curious, isn't it? Jeannette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret" <margaret@scottishwool.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [MLN] OPR records > On 16/2/05 9:37 pm, "J T Walton" <jtwalton13@comcast.net> wrote: > > > I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on which > > 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. > > > Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, > Could be they were all baptised on the same day .. But sounds like you are > saying these are different baptism dates ... > Suspect it is a transcript > Where did the copy come from? > > Robin > -- > Robin and Margaret McEwen-King > Lanark Scotland > > >

Merrylee, Have extracted the following data regarding your family in Whitburn and West Calder, hope it helps with your research It is from the FHC data disks BIVRI2, which you can purchase on lineat their site or view at your local FHC. No record of marriages for these family members. I have NO additional data on these surnames and they are not connected to my line, only posting the info. Visit the FHC for more info or assistance with the films mentioned in the file. Bob Cdn. ----------------------------------- Smith family in Whitburn: SMITH, Agnes Christening Gender: Female Birth Date: 14 Jul 1810 Christening Date: 22 Jul 1810 Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 1066639 Dates: 1719 - 1819 SMITH, Ann Christening Gender: Female Birth Date: 29 Apr 1812 Birthplace: , Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 1066639 Dates: 1719 - 1819 SMITH, James Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 19 Jun 1814 Christening Date: 3 Jul 1814 Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 1066639 Dates: 1719 - 1819 SMITH, Janet Christening Gender: Female Birth Date: 15 Jul 1816 Birthplace: , Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 1066639 Dates: 1719 - 1819 SMITH, Samuel Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 1 Jun 1818 Birthplace: , Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 1066639 Dates: 1719 - 1819 SMITH, Jean Christening Gender: Female Birth Date: 19 Aug 1820 Birthplace: , Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Recorded in: Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Marion MUIR Source: FHL Film 102998 + Dates: 1820 - 1855 ======================================================================= Muris in West Calder: MUIR, William Christening Gender: Male Christening Date: 13 Feb 1780 Recorded in: West Calder, Midlothian, Scotland Father: William MUIR Mother: Agnes CAIGOW Source: FHL Film 1067793 Dates: 1692 - 1871 MUIR, Marrion Christening Gender: Female Christening Date: 22 May 1785 Recorded in: West Calder, Midlothian, Scotland Father: William MUIR Mother: Agnes CAIGOW Source: FHL Film 1067793 Dates: 1692 - 1871 ============================================== Smiths in Shotts: SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 13 Jun 1782 Birthplace: , Shotts, Lanark, Scotland Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: John SMITH Mother: Anna TAYLOR Source: FHL Film 102963 + Dates: 1775 - 1782 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 6 Mar 1787 Birthplace: , Shotts, Lanark, Scotland Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: James SMITH Mother: Elisabeth WAUGH Source: FHL Film 1066605 Dates: 1787 - 1791 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 28 Jul 1795 Birthplace: , Shotts, Lanark, Scotland Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Mary GRAMARE Source: FHL Film 102963 + Dates: 1793 - 1795 SMITH, William Clark Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 20 Oct 1805 Birthplace: , Shotts, Lanark, Scotland Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Elisabeth STORIE Source: FHL Film 1066605 Dates: 1801 - 1825 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 22 Feb 1808 Christening Date: 6 Mar 1808 Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: Thomas SMITH Mother: Ann SINCLAIR Source: FHL Film 1066605 Dates: 1808 - 1809 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 11 Feb 1810 Christening Date: 25 Mar 1810 Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: James SMITH Mother: Janet SHAW Source: FHL Film 1066605 Dates: 1801 - 1825 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 18 Nov 1836 Christening Date: 26 Dec 1836 Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: John SMITH Mother: Agnes INGLIS Source: FHL Film 1066606 Dates: 1811 - 1855 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 23 Dec 1839 Birthplace: , Shotts, Lanark, Scotland Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: William SMITH Mother: Agnes THOMSON Source: FHL Film 1066606 Dates: 1811 - 1855 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 9 Sep 1844 Christening Date: 6 Oct 1844 Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: James SMITH Mother: Agnes LOCHHEAD Source: FHL Film 1066606 Dates: 1811 - 1855 SMITH, William Christening Gender: Male Birth Date: 19 Sep 1849 Christening Date: 7 Oct 1849 Recorded in: Shotts, Lanarkshire, Scotland Father: James SMITH Mother: Margaret GILLIES Source: FHL Film 1066606 Dates: 1811 - 1855 ================================================================================== <SNIP> >Can anyone relate to this Family or have connections to Croftmalloch Farm which I understand is now a pub (Croftmalloch Inn) and a substatial housing estate. > >William Smith b. 1785 Shotts (Farmer at Croftmalloch) wife Marion Muir b. 1792 West Calder > >

My guess that being a Scot and maybe having to pay a fee either for the christnings or to register them. In the early days here in the USA I have seen this too, here I think convience had something to do with it, especially if they lived a distance from the County seat. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "J T Walton" <jtwalton13@comcast.net> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: [MLN] OPR records > Hi list, > I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on > which 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. The dates > range from August 1846 to December 1853. The birth ahead of that is dated > January 1854, and the one following is dated December 1846. They are not > alphabetical. > Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, > and not chronologically with other births in the parish? Would someone in > the parish have copied these? > Many thanks, > Jeannette > > >

On 16/2/05 3:36 pm, "Mac" <m.a.c.b@btinternet.com> wrote: > Can anyone relate to this Family or have connections to Croftmalloch Farm > which I understand is now a pub (Croftmalloch Inn) and a substatial housing > estate. The farm is clearly marked on the old OS maps .. Have you looked at http://www.old-maps.co.uk And put 294670,664410 in to the search box and search for coordinate You can also click in 'view modern map' and get a window centred on the old farm .. Yes it is a modern housing estate .. I pass by it on the way from here to Edinburgh Airport. I had a look for a will at http://www.scottishdocuments.com there is one for         Smith   William   4/12/1852   Residing at Croftmalloch, Parish of Whitburn   Linlithgow Sheriff Court and a later one     Smith   William   6/3/1856   Residing at Croftmalloch   Linlithgow Sheriff Court And later one for a different farm. ....   Smith   William   1/10/1874   Farmer, residing at Blackhill, parish of West Calder   Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills The actual wills are also available at only £5 and you get to download them immediately .. Wonderful service ... For details of the farm and its ownership you could look at the Sasines .. Check NAS for information about these. http://www.nas.gov.uk/ Robin -- Robin and Margaret McEwen-King Lanark Scotland

The record was probably made when they were all baptised at the same time. Perhaps the parents had been living somewhere else, and had the children baptised on a visit home? The ahead of and following dates are strange indeed! Happy hunting, Sonia -----Original Message----- From: J T Walton [mailto:jtwalton13@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:38 PM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MLN] OPR records Hi list, I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on which 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. The dates range from August 1846 to December 1853. The birth ahead of that is dated January 1854, and the one following is dated December 1846. They are not alphabetical. Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, and not chronologically with other births in the parish? Would someone in the parish have copied these? Many thanks, Jeannette

Hi list, I have received a copy of a page from the OPR of Whitburn Parish on which 5 children of one family are listed in consecutive order. The dates range from August 1846 to December 1853. The birth ahead of that is dated January 1854, and the one following is dated December 1846. They are not alphabetical. Question: Why would these five children all be listed consecutively, and not chronologically with other births in the parish? Would someone in the parish have copied these? Many thanks, Jeannette

Hello Merrylee, For what it's worth, I have JANE STARK married William THORNTON July 21, 1845, in Whitburn, Linlithgow. That's all I know so far. If I get parents or other information, I can let you know. Best regards, Jeannette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mac" <m.a.c.b@btinternet.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: [MLN] STARK > > Hi, > I am trying to find anyone with a connection to this family in the 1881 Census > > > > 1881 Census Boathouse, Kirkliston, Linlithgow, > Matthew STARK Marr. 54y Head (Farm Grieve) b.Kirknewton, Edinburgh, > Janet STARK Marr. 57y Wife b.Livingstone, Linlithgow, John STARK Unm. 30y Son (Ploughman) b.West Calder, Edinburgh, > Janet MUIR 11y G/Daur (Scholar) b.Kirkliston, Linlithgow, > > There were previous children Janet,William,David,James and Matthew (Jnr) all older and either married or on the Census at elsewhere) > regards > Merrylee > >

Hi, Can anyone relate to this Family or have connections to Croftmalloch Farm which I understand is now a pub (Croftmalloch Inn) and a substatial housing estate. William Smith b. 1785 Shotts (Farmer at Croftmalloch) wife Marion Muir b. 1792 West Calder Any information on either the family or the Farm would be greatly appreciated. regards Merrylee

Hi, I am trying to find anyone with a connection to this family in the 1881 Census 1881 Census Boathouse, Kirkliston, Linlithgow, Matthew STARK Marr. 54y Head (Farm Grieve) b.Kirknewton, Edinburgh, Janet STARK Marr. 57y Wife b.Livingstone, Linlithgow, John STARK Unm. 30y Son (Ploughman) b.West Calder, Edinburgh, Janet MUIR 11y G/Daur (Scholar) b.Kirkliston, Linlithgow, There were previous children Janet,William,David,James and Matthew (Jnr) all older and either married or on the Census at elsewhere) regards Merrylee

Archie, Prof. Norman Dott was still at the Royal when I was a student nurse there in the early 60s. Needless to say, we were not on chatting terms, as he was the famous consultant while I was a lowly wee probationer ! ;-) Mary BC Canada > Paul, > There was a famous consultant surgeon in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary > called Professor Dott. I think that he was still practising during WW2 > when > I was a laddie.This info. is probably as interesting as though I had told > you that I had an uncle in America !! :-)) > > Archie Gilbert, Kinross > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul power" <paulpower@hotmail.com> > To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:40 AM > Subject: [MLN] help if possible > > >> Greetings i am wondering if anyone has come across the surname Dot, > perhaps >> Dott. My ancestor was called Ellen Dot and was born in a place called >> Linlithgow in about 1810 . Her father was a shoemaker . Any help >> regarding >> this woudl be much appreciated . Many thanks , Paul Power >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Don't know what to wear tomorrow? Get an accurate weather forecast at MSN >> Weather! http://www.msn.ie/weather >> >> >> >

Paul, There was a famous consultant surgeon in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary called Professor Dott. I think that he was still practising during WW2 when I was a laddie.This info. is probably as interesting as though I had told you that I had an uncle in America !! :-)) Archie Gilbert, Kinross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul power" <paulpower@hotmail.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:40 AM Subject: [MLN] help if possible > Greetings i am wondering if anyone has come across the surname Dot, perhaps > Dott. My ancestor was called Ellen Dot and was born in a place called > Linlithgow in about 1810 . Her father was a shoemaker . Any help regarding > this woudl be much appreciated . Many thanks , Paul Power > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't know what to wear tomorrow? Get an accurate weather forecast at MSN > Weather! http://www.msn.ie/weather > > >

From - The Surnames of Scotland - by George F. Black. DOTT - Perhaps a sharpened form of DODD. HENRY DOYT is mentioned in 1343 ( ER, 1. page 531) and WILLIAM DOT appears as a witness in St. Andrews in 1475 ( Soltre, p. 73) DOTT 1492. DOIT 1506. - AElfric DOTT is recorded in DB. as 'nomen viri' (Searle) Hope this is of some help. Kind Regards Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul power" <paulpower@hotmail.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:40 AM Subject: [MLN] help if possible > Greetings i am wondering if anyone has come across the surname Dot, perhaps > Dott. My ancestor was called Ellen Dot and was born in a place called > Linlithgow in about 1810 . Her father was a shoemaker . Any help regarding > this woudl be much appreciated . Many thanks , Paul Power > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't know what to wear tomorrow? Get an accurate weather forecast at MSN > Weather! http://www.msn.ie/weather >