Right off the bat, we have a problem using "OPR + standard practice" in the same sentence! I have been transcribing Banns from original images (East Lothian FreeReg Project) and have found that the bride could be described as 'Mary Brown, widow of James Brown', or 'widow Brown, daughter of George Ross'. Sometimes the bride's father's name is omitted. To date I have not found mention of the former wife's name if the groom was a widower. No surprise there. Off topic a bit, but interesting as a commentary on the time; if the bride to be worked in the household of an 'important' citizen, this name was often given rather than her father's name. Elizabeth Dods Alan Ireland <ireland@pavilion.co.uk> wrote: I too have been wondering what standard practice for the name recorded for a second marriage in the OPRs was. Would it have been the maiden name or the previous husband's name? Given that for formal documents in Scotland even now a woman is known as e.g. "Jessie Dickson or Ferrie" (Dickson being the maiden name), I suspect the maiden name would be the one used but would be very pleased to hear from any experts! Best wishes, Sheena Ireland -----Original Message----- From: Graeme Boocock [mailto:graeme.boocock@utoronto.ca] Sent: 29 March 2005 21:30 To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Chartered Accountant vs. Accountant His naval records contain a statement from his grandmother (dated 1850) that reads, "I, Jessie Dickson or Ferrie, widow residing at Gilmerton in the County of Edinburgh do solemnly and sincerely declare that James Smith is my grandson. That he was born in Edinburgh on the Twenty first day of October One thousand eight hundred and forty three. He was left with me by his father and mother when he was an infant and has been with me and under my charge ever since and has my full consent to join Her Majesty's Navy." Also, Mary Crichton Ferrie (b: Dec. 3, 1822) married twice later in life: first to James Laurie (1849, Glasgow), and secondly to John Brodie (1870, Edinburgh). At her earliest recorded marriage (1849) her maiden name is recorded... this makes me suspect she never married James Smith, Accountant. Actually, would it have been standard to record a maiden name or a previous husband's surname at a second marriage in the OPRs? Graeme Boocock (Toronto) ______________________________

Dear Carol, Thanks for your note. Sorry to take so long in getting back. The names you mentioned do sound familiar so I will send you what I have on them. My Youngs are mainly from minning families also. I believe many of the people in that area were miners. William Black YOUNG b. 1853, md an Isabella WILLIAMSON b.1859, dau of William Williamson and Margaret STEVENSON. I have only two children for them; Margaret Stevenson Young b.1887 and Catherine Young b.1889. William Black Young's parents were George Young b. 1826 and Catherine Black b. ab 1830. They were my g grandparents. A number of my Youngs md Hunters. Two sisters md two bros.--- Elizabeth HUNTER b. 1818 md Henry Young b. 1818 and her sister Margaret HUNTER b. 1824 md George Young b. 1816. Elizabeth and Henry's children were Elizabeth, Thomas, James, Henry and Robert. Margaret and George's children were Elizabeth, Thomas, George, Henry and William. I also have a Mary YOUNG, dau of John Young and Christina SIMPSON, md to a John HUNTER, parents unknown. Also I have an Alexander YOUNG, son of John Young and Margaret NOBLE, md to an Isabella HUNTER, parents unkown. I have a James BROWN b. ab 1755 md to an Isabel YOUNG b. ab 1755. I have 8 children for them which I can give you if you'd like. One of their daughters, Euphemia BROWN b.1795 md a Henry YOUNG b. 1796 and they had 7 children. If any of these connect to your lines then I will be glad to give you a great deal more detail of this whole family. Will look forward to your response. Thanks, Yvonne

Dear Doug, Thank you for checking about the YOUNGS. I don't have any Margarets YOUNGS that match those you mentioned yet. I think that as I get more info on my Young line we may find a family connection. So many of my Young ancestors came from Newbattle and the surrounding area that it just seems there will be a connection. So I hope to keep your info and do check back with me every so often and we can compare again. All the best, Yvonne

VACATION

Jim wrote here: > > Are there any Aussies out there who might have, or have access to, the CD > ROMs for Queensland BMD's, and if so, would you be willing to do a few > look-ups for me at some time? > > Look forward to hearing from you It could help if you would include in the query some specifics, many of us have weird sources but go to ?distant libraries to search BMDs. ARNOTT in Queensland, my weird collection of 190 persons there mentions: David Fleming Arnott in Toowong 1916 Jack Arnott " 1929 Are those guys of interest? Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

Dear Listers: I've been posting queries to these Rootsweb Lists for quite a few years... but never have I had the response like I had to this one! I shouldn't have been surprised.... you folks 'down-under' are well-known for your generosity. To all of you who responded on, and off-list, many thanks. I have passed along my query to one of the volunteers. Kind regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnott, J&H" <jta@islandnet.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:03 AM Subject: Queensland BMD's > Are there any Aussies out there who might have, or have access to, the CD > ROMs for Queensland BMD's, and if so, would you be willing to do a few > look-ups for me at some time? > > Look forward to hearing from you > > Jim Arnott, Canada > > ______________________________

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:30:10 -0500, Graeme Boocock <graeme.boocock@utoronto.ca> wrote: >The short version of my question is as follows: Would there have been a >difference between the occupations "Accountant" and "Chartered >Accountant" in the 1840s-1850s? If so, would knowing that somebody was >a chartered accountant help to track them down in a census or through >some other profession-related source? As regards Chartered Accountants in Scotland, "A History of The Chartered Accountants of Scotland from the Earliest Times to 1954" is a good history of the profession, and easily obtainable. Three Scottish professional accounting bodies were formed in the mid-19th century, members of which were granted the title "Chartered Accountant" and allowed to use the post-nominal letters "CA": - Society of Accountants in Edinburgh, Royal Warrant given 1854 - Institute of Accountants and Actuaries in Glasgow, Royal Warrant given 1855 - Society of Accountants in Aberdeen, Royal Charter granted 1867 The following extract is taken from the above book: ================ Before concluding this chapter, reference should be made to the adoption of the designation "Chartered Accountant" with the distinctive initials, "C.A." Very shortly after its incorporation, the Edinburgh Society resolved that this title, with its abbreviation, be adopted by all members. A similar course was recommended by the Glasgow Institute to all its members at the Annual General Meeting in January 1856. In Aberdeen the title was adopted from the incorporation of the Society there. Some little time elapsed before the new name became familiar to the public of Scotland or even among the members themselves; but before very long the value of the designation became apparent to all and in due course came to be one of the most jealously guarded privileges of the three Societies. When in 1880 the designation of Chartered Accountant was also adopted by The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales on its incorporation by Royal Charter, the term soon received a widespread recognition. The abbreviation " C.A." in its use for professional purposes is still an exclusive privilege in the United Kingdom for members of the Scottish Institute, and at various times in the earlier years the three Societies, sometimes acting jointly and sometimes separately, took steps to defend this exclusive right to its use as a professional designation in Scotland. ================ Relating the above to your case, the phrase "Chartered Accountant" wasn't used in Scotland before 1855, and even after its introduction, not all members used it for some time. Names of accountants can be found in Oliver and Boyd's Edinburgh Almanac, and the Edinburgh and Leith Post Office Directory. The 1861 edition of the latter has a section for Members of Society of Accountants in Edinburgh, and another section for plain "Accountants". Unfortunately neither lists a James Smith. Neither does a James Smith appear in the list of Accountants in the Post Office Directory for 1842-43. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson - British Military Genealogical Researcher. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com

Hi Jim I can help you. Jennifer Melbourne, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Arnott, J&H [mailto:jta@islandnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2005 1:03 AM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MLN] Queensland BMD's Are there any Aussies out there who might have, or have access to, the CD ROMs for Queensland BMD's, and if so, would you be willing to do a few look-ups for me at some time? Look forward to hearing from you Jim Arnott, Canada

Graeme, you asked ... "Would there have been a difference between the occupations "Accountant" and "Chartered Accountant" in the 1840s-1850s? If so, would knowing that somebody was a chartered accountant help to track them down in a census or through some other profession-related source?" The ICAS has a website at http://www.icas.org.uk It was founded in 1854 and was the first accountancy body in the world to become designated 'Chartered'. There are now a number of others - see http://www.gaapweb.com/library/qualifications/ to get an idea of the different accountancy bodies. It is quite possible that people could have called themselves an 'Accountant' in the 1850's, without having actually achieved the Chartered qualification, but they shouldn't have called themselves 'Chartered' unless they really were qualified. Hope this helps, Duncan, Dundee

Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: hiflyte To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [MLN] (new) Walker If you are close to a Family History Center (FHC) drop in an discuss your problem with the staff. They will direct you to the Index of Birth, Death, and Marriage Index films. These will give you direction to the correct Register Films. You could also look at Scotlandpeople site, but I would suggest the FHC first. Many of the FHCs keep the index films for the UK in-house if so this is the less expensive approach. Bob Cdn. ==================================. carolyn wrote ><SNIP>I am trying to find out the birth of my grandfather George Walker. He was probably born in the 1890's in Edinburgh. He had my mother in 1920 and died, I believe, before she was 10. > >

Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Cameron To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [MLN] (new) Walker Carolyn wrote: > > Hello list > > I am new to this. WELCOME! > I am sorry if I ask some silly questions. These are a good recipe for success. We hesitate to help experts, they have a way of thumping us in reply ;~) > I am trying to find out the birth of my grandfather George Walker. He was probably born in the 1890's in Edinburgh. He had my mother in 1920 and died, I believe, before she was 10. > > I am at a loss where to start. Start by finding his parents' names, it is risky to select the birth record in order to win the names of the babe! Your mother's 1920 birth cert will name his wife, you can thus find his marriage and that marr entry will name the four parents of the bridal couple, incl. mothers' maiden surnames. Finding the correct birth for Geo should not be hard, and looking at his death cert and the Census for 1901 will add to your conviction and knowledge of the family. You are then on course to find a large family tree. Enjoy! Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON A.A.G.R.A. Professional Genealogist http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

cmae through fine Liz >From: Adrienne or Darrell Sherrin <dasherrinm@shaw.ca> >Reply-To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MLN] test only >Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:09:21 -0800 > >test > >Adrienne Sherrin >BC, Canada >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dasherrin >

The short version of my question is as follows: Would there have been a difference between the occupations "Accountant" and "Chartered Accountant" in the 1840s-1850s? If so, would knowing that somebody was a chartered accountant help to track them down in a census or through some other profession-related source? I have posted to the group(s) on this subject before. I am searching for the father of my great x 2 grandfather. His paternal ancestry is a gaping hole in my family tree. James Douglas Smith (who is my great x 2 grandfather) was born October 21, 1843 in Edinburgh but I cannot find a birth record and suspect that he was illegitimate. His naval records contain a statement from his grandmother (dated 1850) that reads, "I, Jessie Dickson or Ferrie, widow residing at Gilmerton in the County of Edinburgh do solemnly and sincerely declare that James Smith is my grandson. That he was born in Edinburgh on the Twenty first day of October One thousand eight hundred and forty three. He was left with me by his father and mother when he was an infant and has been with me and under my charge ever since and has my full consent to join Her Majesty's Navy." The fact that he was left with his grandmother makes me suspect he was illegitimate, along with the missing birth record. J.D. Smith went to Plymouth for naval service. In his marriage certificate (1867 at Plymouth, Devon) his father is listed as James Smith, Accountant. Unfortunately, the Devon records do not state whether the father was living or dead at the time. His mother is listed as Mary Crichton Ferrie. I know quite a bit about his mother and her family, but nothing at all about the father, due to "James Smith" being such a common name. I don't think the parents married, as there is no matching record for that either in the OPRs. Also, Mary Crichton Ferrie (b: Dec. 3, 1822) married twice later in life: first to James Laurie (1849, Glasgow), and secondly to John Brodie (1870, Edinburgh). At her earliest recorded marriage (1849) her maiden name is recorded... this makes me suspect she never married James Smith, Accountant. Actually, would it have been standard to record a maiden name or a previous husband's surname at a second marriage in the OPRs? Anyway, she died in 1900 in Stirling and only James Laurie and John Brodie are mentioned as husbands on the death record. Lastly, I just found. James Douglas Smith's death certificate (1925, Lochee), on which is father is listed as a "Chartered Accountant". I was wondering if there was any different between "Accountant" and "Chartered Accountant", and whether this information would be useful for tracking down the father. Thanks, Graeme Boocock (Toronto)

Carolyn wrote: > > Hello list > > I am new to this. WELCOME! > I am sorry if I ask some silly questions. These are a good recipe for success. We hesitate to help experts, they have a way of thumping us in reply ;~) > I am trying to find out the birth of my grandfather George Walker. He was probably born in the 1890's in Edinburgh. He had my mother in 1920 and died, I believe, before she was 10. > > I am at a loss where to start. Start by finding his parents' names, it is risky to select the birth record in order to win the names of the babe! Your mother's 1920 birth cert will name his wife, you can thus find his marriage and that marr entry will name the four parents of the bridal couple, incl. mothers' maiden surnames. Finding the correct birth for Geo should not be hard, and looking at his death cert and the Census for 1901 will add to your conviction and knowledge of the family. You are then on course to find a large family tree. Enjoy! Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON A.A.G.R.A. Professional Genealogist http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Liz Parkinson [mailto:parkinsonliz@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 8:31 AM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [MLN] test only cmae through fine Liz >From: Adrienne or Darrell Sherrin <dasherrinm@shaw.ca> >Reply-To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MLN] test only >Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:09:21 -0800 > >test > >Adrienne Sherrin >BC, Canada >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dasherrin >

test Adrienne Sherrin BC, Canada http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dasherrin

Are there any Aussies out there who might have, or have access to, the CD ROMs for Queensland BMD's, and if so, would you be willing to do a few look-ups for me at some time? Look forward to hearing from you Jim Arnott, Canada

Hello list I am new to this. I am sorry if I ask some silly questions. I am trying to find out the birth of my grandfather George Walker. He was probably born in the 1890's in Edinburgh. He had my mother in 1920 and died, I believe, before she was 10. I am at a loss where to start. Thank you. Ghi

If you are close to a Family History Center (FHC) drop in an discuss your problem with the staff. They will direct you to the Index of Birth, Death, and Marriage Index films. These will give you direction to the correct Register Films. You could also look at Scotlandpeople site, but I would suggest the FHC first. Many of the FHCs keep the index films for the UK in-house if so this is the less expensive approach. Bob Cdn. ==================================. carolyn wrote ><SNIP>I am trying to find out the birth of my grandfather George Walker. He was probably born in the 1890's in Edinburgh. He had my mother in 1920 and died, I believe, before she was 10. > >

Hi, I am searching for any family of John WATHERSTOUN b1713 at Stow. He married Agnes TALEFORD 1751. Their children were William John b1768 who married c1789 to Agnes YELLOWLEES, Andrew b1752 who married 1781 to Margaret Friar, Elizabeth b? and married1784 to William Tait , Joan b1763 and married 1876 Robert Tait and George b1756 and married Isabel Currier. Thanks in advance. Helen McNamara New Zealand