GROS is General Register Office of Scotland which you can find at http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/ Kylie (in Oz as well)

Thanks Allistair, I am fortunate that I have a small FH center about 10 minutes from where I live. Unfortunately, it is manned by "Volunteers", who by their own admission are not really familiar with the information they have at hand or how to use their resources. So, as a result neither the volunteers nor I know how to decipher the codes used on the IGI. I do know that C is for Christening, M for marriage, etc. but have been unable to get past the fiche's of general info down to the detailed info. Thanks again for always being willing to help me with answers to my questions. gretchen Michigan USA

Lance, The following URL will take you to Hugh Wallis' site for Midlothian. Scroll down until you find Edinburgh. Under that you will find Saint Cuthbert's Parish listed. There are a series of batch numbers with year ranges. "C" listings are for birth/christenings and "M" listings are marriages. If you select one of those batches it will list all the births or marriages in that year range. Each of those batches is searchable by surname. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyMidlothian.htm Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Piattpioneer@aol.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 2:07 AM Subject: [MLN] St Cuthbert Index > Is there an Index for the christenings that occurred at St Cuthbert. > > I'm looking for a James ANDREW born about 1710 +/- who knows. > > Also curious to see if James ANDREW married a Catherine LIVINGSTON. > > Regards, > > Lance L. Piatt (Bremerton, Washington) > > > >

On 17/4/05 9:48 am, "Rosemary Meechan" <rosemarymee@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > turn up at the house of hus father - in - law in East > Central Scotland within 24 hours of his death... Where did the son live? It does not take long to cross from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Linlithgow is already west from Edinburgh : trains were frequent in those days. Doors would not be locked unless he was a wealthy man and then he would have servants in the house. A post mortem would be automatic these days for any sudden death when a doctor had not seen the deceased recently .. I think this was basically true in 1873 so no mystery there. I assume you could not read the death registration online as scotlandspeople hence the request for a print ... These extra comments are quite frequent and one has to check in the RCE for the further information .. Brilliant that GROS sent you report too. Remember death of a partner is a regular occurrence and any widow would soon remarry so as to have someone to support her or a widower so he could be looked after (our man of that era married three times the second was a widow with money and he had access to her bank account within 3 days of her first husbands death then married her by special licence within 10 days ) Was Hugh O'Brien worth a bob or two? If so there may well have been a report in the local newspaper. Robin Plenty of mouton here if you want one .. Latest is 1 hour old -- Robin and Margaret McEwen-King Lanark Scotland

Alan, this is a wonderful site - thanks so much for pointing me to it. Hugh Wallis deserves a very big "Thank You!!!" for making it available! Happy hunting, Sonia Snip> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Thom [mailto:shiral@efni.com] Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:52 AM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MLN] St Cuthbert Index Lance, The following URL will take you to Hugh Wallis' site for Midlothian. Scroll down until you find Edinburgh. Under that you will find Saint Cuthbert's Parish listed. There are a series of batch numbers with year ranges. "C" listings are for birth/christenings and "M" listings are marriages. If you select one of those batches it will list all the births or marriages in that year range. Each of those batches is searchable by surname. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyMi dlothian.htm Alan

je ne comprend pas Liz > >S'il te plait, monsieur, dessine-moi un mouton. > >Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >

je ne comprend pas Liz > >S'il te plait, monsieur, dessine-moi un mouton. > >Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >

Returning to the mystery of how my ancestor Anthony Christy- living in West Central Scotland - managed to turn up at the house of hus father - in - law in East Central Scotland within 24 hours of his death... Does anybody have any idea of how this could happen? Was it a strange coincidence? He couldn't have been telephoned because it hadn't been invented. A telegram might have been a possibility - but who would have sent it, and why didn't THEY report the death? Is there an innocent explanation for the "absence" of his wife? Things must have seemed suspicious enough for a post-mortem to be ordered - he died of a heart-attack, apparently - but those of us who read mystery novels know there are all sorts of ways of bringing on a heart attack. Does anybody have the Url of a perpetual calendar - you know, the kind that will tell you what days the 30th September and 1st October were in 1873? Incidentally, all this came to light when I requested the death certificate of Hugh O'Brien from Scotland's People. They passed on the request to GROS - the General Register for Scotland. A sharp-eyed person there spotted that the death certificate had been amended and sent on the "Report of a result of a precognition" which gives a summary of the post-mortem and is signed by the then Procurator - Fiscal - at no extra charge. Gros are wonderful - they can be emailed or telephoned, and if they can't find an answer immediately, they will telephone you back, wherever you are in the world. I know people in Canada who have had a return call from them. S'il te plait, monsieur, dessine-moi un mouton. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Returning to the mystery of how my ancestor Anthony Christy- living in West Central Scotland - managed to turn up at the house of hus father - in - law in East Central Scotland within 24 hours of his death... Does anybody have any idea of how this could happen? Was it a strange coincidence? He couldn't have been telephoned because it hadn't been invented. A telegram might have been a possibility - but who would have sent it, and why didn't THEY report the death? Is there an innocent explanation for the "absence" of his wife? Things must have seemed suspicious enough for a post-mortem to be ordered - he died of a heart-attack, apparently - but those of us who read mystery novels know there are all sorts of ways of bringing on a heart attack. Does anybody have the Url of a perpetual calendar - you know, the kind that will tell you what days the 30th September and 1st October were in 1873? Incidentally, all this came to light when I requested the death certificate of Hugh O'Brien from Scotland's People. They passed on the request to GROS - the General Register Office for Scotland. A sharp-eyed person there spotted that the death certificate had been amended and sent on the "Report of a result of a precognition" which gives a summary of the post-mortem and is signed by the then Procurator - Fiscal - at no extra charge. Gros are wonderful - they can be emailed or telephoned, and if they can't find an answer immediately, they will telephone you back, wherever you are in the world. I know people in Canada who have had a return call from them. It is well worth looking at their web site : www.gro-scotland.gov.uk O.K. back to our poor corpse in Linlithgow - he has been lying in his house in the High Street frm 9 p.m. to 11 a.m. This latter time is presumably when my great-great grandfather Anthony burst in fresh from the morning train. How did he get in ? Was the key left under the mat? Did he have to break down the door? Who had seen him at 9 p.m. the previous evening? ( These time details are in the Procurator Fiscal's report ). Where WAS his second wife? You'll be interested to know that she went on to marry AGAIN some time later. Did she make a career of marrying eldery men and then - becoming a widow? Rosemary S'il te plait, monsieur, dessine-moi un mouton. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Rosemary Meechan wrote here: > > How nice to meet Australian Alastair again! However, > if you read really CAREFULLY, you will realise that > the parents mentioned were Irish and stayed in > Ireland. I have just read your original msg CAREFULLY and it doesna say anything like that! A weight off my mind, as I supposed you had 'caught me out' --------------------------------- This second posting from you tells so much more. IF it was my problem, I would NOT work upon it but shoot it off to my friend M. who lives in the district. Betcha M. would unearth a great story. She is also good at searching forwards at end of a project to find unexpected living relatives. But as YOU live in UK that might be an unwelcome outcome I know!! [we choose our friends, we are stuck with our rellies] If you would like me to supply the addresses for M. pls email me directly acameron@hinet.net.au Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON A.A.G.R.A. Professional Genealogist http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

The following is one of the FAQ's from Scotlands People, just thought I would post it before people started wasting money looking for OPR death records on the site. Is there any information on deaths before 1855? There are, at present, no death/burial indexes for the pre-1855 period. Recording of deaths/burials in the Old Parish Registers was patchy and often non-existent. Sometimes the only record of a death will be the recording of hire of the mortcloth (pall) to cover the coffin before burial. For information on the existence or otherwise of deaths/burials for particular parishes, see GROS. If you wish a search to be conducted for a pre-1855 death, details of costs and how to apply are available on the GROS website. Be aware, however, that a record, if found, may only contain, at most, name, place and date.

In a message dated 4/17/2005 4:49:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rosemarymee@yahoo.co.uk writes: Does anybody have the Url of a perpetual calendar - you know, the kind that will tell you what days the 30th September and 1st October were in 1873? Rosemary, Here's one called a 10,000-Year Calendar -- Alice http://www.calendarhome.com/tyc/original.html

Is there an Index for the christenings that occurred at St Cuthbert. I'm looking for a James ANDREW born about 1710 +/- who knows. Also curious to see if James ANDREW married a Catherine LIVINGSTON. Regards, Lance L. Piatt (Bremerton, Washington)

Gretchen, Sometimes you can be lucky as I was when researching Fife. Dysart area. The Fife family History Society, had put together a Family Deaths Index, that you can purchase, this particular index covered pre 1855 deaths and was a great help in forming family groups. I do not know if other areas of Scotland have been covered by other History Society groups. Regards Marci (Australia)

Hello, If anyone, who may have contacted me in the last couple years about the above names, please contact me again. My computer had a major crash, and I have lost most of the information I had on the above families. If you remember sending me any information, would you please re-send, thank you. I have also lost all my e-mail addresses, so I am starting to re-build my database. Thank you Dave Gosling

How nice to meet Australian Alastair again! However, if you read really CAREFULLY, you will realise that the parents mentioned were Irish and stayed in Ireland.( I am attempting to find them in County Leitrim but no good would come of mentioning their names here. THEY WERE IRISH and lived and died in Ireland! O.K? (the last two sentences should be read in a dull roar...) However, modulating my voice and attempting to sound bright and cheerful - I HAVE the report of the death of my ancestor, Hugh O'Brien who died "between 9 pm of 30th September and 11 am of 1st October, 1873 in High Street, Linlithgow." His body did NOT lie around for days waiting to be discovered (Alastair, you have a gothic imagination!). However, on the night that he died, his second wife Mary Travers was NOT THERE. I imagine that she was an ageing trollope and was probably out boozing and worse in one of Linlithgow's many taverns....SHE does not report her husband's death. His son-in-law travels over thirty miles by train to Linlithgow, finds him dead and reports the death to the police. Where is the widow O'Brien (who has at least three other marriages or aliases to her credit)? We don't know but she recovers from her grief to instigate court proceedings to have her late husband's assets assigned to her. Yes, Alastair, I have the documents to prove it! Now, it would be wonderful to find a contemporary newspaper report. Does anybody - not second-guessing from Australia - have any idea of which newspaper files it would be profitable to search? Is anybody descended from an O'Bren from Linlithgow? Poor Hugh O'Brien's daughter married Anthony Christy(Christie)who also came from County Leitrim. They married in Linlithgow and moved steadily westwards, ending up in Central Scotland in Dunbartonshire and then Stirlingshire. I wonder what attracted them to Linlithgow in the 1850s? This is really why I have joined this list. Were the canals stil being built in the 1850s? Were large numbers of Irish being employed in the building of the railways? One of my relatives - Peter Christy - was a gas-worker. Were large gasworks being built in West Lothian at this time? I hope that somebody can help to flesh out what is turning out to be a real-life family mystery. Kindest regards (especially to Alastair who has helped me lots in the past) Rosemary S'il te plait, monsieur, dessine-moi un mouton. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

I have a JEMIMA FALCONER, born 1855 ,? perhaps Prestonpans, married Jan 1876 to JOHN NISBET. They lived 260 Canongate, Edinburgh, in 1881 per census with her aunt, MARGARET BUNYAN. Would love to connect with more Falconers. Sorry not any help to you... regards, Sally -----Original Message----- From: Dave [mailto:dave@gosling37.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:59 PM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MLN] Anderson, Falconer, Lean and Grierson Hello, If anyone, who may have contacted me in the last couple years about the above names, please contact me again. My computer had a major crash, and I have lost most of the information I had on the above families. If you remember sending me any information, would you please re-send, thank you. I have also lost all my e-mail addresses, so I am starting to re-build my database. Thank you Dave Gosling

Gretchen wrote here: > > Hi Alistair, > > I noticed that you mentioned that the IGI does not pay much attention to the > death notices. Is there anywhere that we in the US can find death info > (besides Scotland's People which I am still unable to access until I get this > computer straightened out :) ? ) Any suggestions would be really appreciated. ------------------- The IGI is only one of the mighty resources on public access at the thousands of LDS Family History Centers. At any one of those thousands of free libraries you can search the Deaths Indexes for Scotland, and read and copy the pages of Deaths Registers. But there is a hitch! * the FH centre may not be close to your home * if it is a busy place you may have to book access to the PCs, film readers there * no one will bring you coffee to help you cope with the fun and fatigue of searching! I drive 30kM to the FHC of my choice, and do not use Scotland's People 'tho I know it is a really fine service. And I have the entire Scotland IGI in my office, once it was available for purchase but no more! Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON A.A.G.R.A. Professional Genealogist http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA

Hi all, Check the Scottish Genealogy Society at www.scotsgenealogy.com They have an extensive catalogue of publications of all sorts, for the whole of Scotland. Prices are very reasonable and you don't need to be a member to purchase. Happy hunting, Jeannette Port Charlotte, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Baker" <RPMJBaker@bigpond.com> To: <MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:23 AM Subject: [MLN] Death/Burials > Gretchen, > Sometimes you can be lucky as I was when researching Fife. Dysart area. > The Fife family History Society, had put together a Family Deaths > Index, that you can purchase, this particular index covered pre 1855 > deaths and was a great help in forming family groups. I do not know if > other areas of Scotland have been covered by other History Society > groups. > Regards Marci (Australia) > >

Dear Gretchen If the deaths are pre-1855 you will have to go To Parish Records which are on the Scotlandpeople But the LDS Family history Librarys have the parish Records on microfilm. Sometimes they did not record the death but If you see an entry for a mort cloth for the Deceased that mean they have died. Hope this helps. Georgena Turner -----Original Message----- From: Alistair Cameron [mailto:acameron@hinet.net.au] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:49 PM To: MIDLOTHIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MLN] Another new subscriber - Christy and O'Brien Gretchen wrote here: > > Hi Alistair, > > I noticed that you mentioned that the IGI does not pay much attention to the > death notices. Is there anywhere that we in the US can find death info > (besides Scotland's People which I am still unable to access until I get this > computer straightened out :) ? ) Any suggestions would be really appreciated. ------------------- The IGI is only one of the mighty resources on public access at the thousands of LDS Family History Centers. At any one of those thousands of free libraries you can search the Deaths Indexes for Scotland, and read and copy the pages of Deaths Registers. But there is a hitch! * the FH centre may not be close to your home * if it is a busy place you may have to book access to the PCs, film readers there * no one will bring you coffee to help you cope with the fun and fatigue of searching! I drive 30kM to the FHC of my choice, and do not use Scotland's People 'tho I know it is a really fine service. And I have the entire Scotland IGI in my office, once it was available for purchase but no more! Cheers, ALISTAIR M. CAMERON A.A.G.R.A. Professional Genealogist http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/ PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA