Hi again You can cut down the risk a little by ordering the birth certificates with *no* GRO index reference By ticking the box no GRO reference on the order it will enable you to enter qualifying data I would order them stating *if the father is named Ephraim* and leave it at that If the father is so named you will get the certificate, if the father is another name they will refund the charges That way you will only get them if connected Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/10/2012 13:36, Sheila and Brian Longden wrote: > Thanks Nivard. > I know that Tryphenia had a brother Frederick who married the Patience > Sparks who was the other witness on the certificate. He was a widower then > and it is possible he is the Frederick Robert mentioned but I haven't been > able to connect them. I think I will have to apply for both Tryphenia's and > Frederick's birth certificates and see if they come up with the same > parents. unless anybody can suggest a better way > > cheers Sheila