Coleen, Can you stop for a while and back up please? Can you also please read this carefully. We are trying very hard to help you but you are jumping around all over the place and not answering specific questions. This is making it very difficult to help you because you don't seem to be taking in or understanding what's being said. I don't know anything about Laszlo Mail which you seem to be using to send to the list but you should be able to include the mail you are replying to. Slow down and go step by step. If we ask you a question or for information, please answer it as fully as possible so we are better able to help you. Forget about John HYLAND's birth for now. It's no good trying to chase that down until you know more about him. Please tell us *exactly* what you know for certain about John: not what you think you know, not what you believe, just cold, hard facts that would stand up in a court of law. For instance you have the name of his father, his father's occupation, his bride's name, her father's name and her father's occupation. The source is his marriage certificate which it may be possible to find on Ancestry. What you do NOT have is John's mother's name nor his mother in law's name because they are not on the marriage cert. You need to give references to the sources and the sites you've used - but NOT Google! :)) We can then take it step by step. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk