COLEEN COLEMAN wrote: > They were both age 20 he was a bachelor and she was a spinster. Good :)) Let's concentrate just on John for now. We can come back to Mary later. John said he was 20. The chances are he would have turned 21 that year. Therefore, he would have been born before civil registration began so you need his baptism. That will give you his mother's given name but not her surname. What sources tell you where he was born? It's no good looking in Ireland or Scotland if he says he was born in England. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk