Whilst I would absolutely agree that no one ever checked, the practice of leaving a suitcase in the hall or hanging a coat in the spare bedroom is certainly not mythical. My mother insisted on my doing this when I married in my old home parish (whilst actually resident in London) 34 years ago tomorrow. She had done the same thing in the 1940s. Neither she nor my grandmother were especially pious, I think there was a certain queasiness about lying to the vicar in those days. Caroline Sent from my iPad On 28 Jul 2012, at 19:33, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jenny > > I have often seen mention of the leaving of clothes or a suitcase for > three weeks in a Parish to qualify for "of this Parish" > > My question would be, how do they know? > > As the Vicar or Registrar was not looking for an excuse *not* to marry a > couple, I would have thought the mere statement that they were of this > Parish would be enough, I do not see either a Vicar or registrar going > around knocking on doors to try and prove the couple were telling the > truth, neither would know everyone on their patch > > In the same way, no proof of age was asked for neither was proof of the > fathers name, occupation or if alive or dead > > As there is no record kept of the seemingly mythical suitcase I am more > inclined to believe they simply made the statement and it was accepted > > Another reason they may have married so far from home, could be that > they could not marry at a home Parish, either because they did not have > both parents blessing or some other reason > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 28/07/2012 18:34, Jenny De Angelis wrote: >> My Grandparents married in Stratford East London, a short walk from where >> the Olympics are being held at the moment, but they both lived in >> Hartlepool County Durham in the North East of England. My grandfather was a >> merchant seaman and must have been in the London Docks and grandma went down >> to marry there. They gave an address in the Stratford area and said they >> were both of that parish but maybe my grandfather had arrived the required 3 >> weeks beforehand and took up lodgings there in order that they could marry >> in the parish. Either that or my grandma moved down to Stratford to lodge >> for that period of time until granddad returned from his voyage and they >> could marry. >> >> I have also been told that all that would be required in order for someone >> to say they were of the parish in which they wanted to marry, was to leave a >> suitcase of clothes in a house in that parish for the required 3 weeks or >> so, they didn't necessarily have to live there. >> >> Regards >> Jenny DeAngelis > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi: There was a big difference between urban and rural parishes. In rural areas everyone would know where everyone lived. In city parishes no-one would know or check, and what people said and did was up to them. Some may not have liked to deceive the vicar, but I doubt that that was a widespread view. My own parents had no such scruples - they simply gave an aunt's address, no suitcase involved at all. And both my grandmother and great grandmother didn't even tell the truth about whether they were already married! Paul On 28 July 2012 20:26, Caroline Bradford <[email protected]> wrote: > Whilst I would absolutely agree that no one ever checked, the practice of leaving a suitcase in the hall or hanging a coat in the spare bedroom is certainly not mythical. My mother insisted on my doing this when I married in my old home parish (whilst actually resident in London) 34 years ago tomorrow. She had done the same thing in the 1940s. Neither she nor my grandmother were especially pious, I think there was a certain queasiness about lying to the vicar in those days. > > Caroline > > Sent from my iPad > > On 28 Jul 2012, at 19:33, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Jenny >> >> I have often seen mention of the leaving of clothes or a suitcase for >> three weeks in a Parish to qualify for "of this Parish" >> >> My question would be, how do they know? >> >> As the Vicar or Registrar was not looking for an excuse *not* to marry a >> couple, I would have thought the mere statement that they were of this >> Parish would be enough, I do not see either a Vicar or registrar going >> around knocking on doors to try and prove the couple were telling the >> truth, neither would know everyone on their patch >> >> In the same way, no proof of age was asked for neither was proof of the >> fathers name, occupation or if alive or dead >> >> As there is no record kept of the seemingly mythical suitcase I am more >> inclined to believe they simply made the statement and it was accepted >> >> Another reason they may have married so far from home, could be that >> they could not marry at a home Parish, either because they did not have >> both parents blessing or some other reason >> >> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> >> >> On 28/07/2012 18:34, Jenny De Angelis wrote: >>> My Grandparents married in Stratford East London, a short walk from where >>> the Olympics are being held at the moment, but they both lived in >>> Hartlepool County Durham in the North East of England. My grandfather was a >>> merchant seaman and must have been in the London Docks and grandma went down >>> to marry there. They gave an address in the Stratford area and said they >>> were both of that parish but maybe my grandfather had arrived the required 3 >>> weeks beforehand and took up lodgings there in order that they could marry >>> in the parish. Either that or my grandma moved down to Stratford to lodge >>> for that period of time until granddad returned from his voyage and they >>> could marry. >>> >>> I have also been told that all that would be required in order for someone >>> to say they were of the parish in which they wanted to marry, was to leave a >>> suitcase of clothes in a house in that parish for the required 3 weeks or >>> so, they didn't necessarily have to live there. >>> >>> Regards >>> Jenny DeAngelis >> ************************************** >> Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. >> >> **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** >> >> List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Paul The particular case was one in East London and yes I would agree there is a lot of difference between the rural Parish and the urban However I might just believe that the Vicar of a small rural Parish might have known most or even stretching it a little, all of his Parishioners but can't believe that all did and certainly a registrar wouldn't There were good Vicars who actively saw to their Parishioners wants and needs but there were plenty who did not, some left it to an overburdened curate and its certainly not unknown for some to bend the rules a little (or more) Likewise whilst people in rural areas might know much more about their neighbours than their city dwelling counterparts, I would say its stretching it somewhat to say that everyone knew where everyone else lived As I said previously. although a Vicar would not knowingly marry someone who was not old enough or a non resident I can't see them spending to much time finding a reason not to marry someone Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/07/2012 20:37, Paul Prescott wrote: > Hi: > > There was a big difference between urban and rural parishes. In rural > areas everyone would know where everyone lived. In city parishes > no-one would know or check, and what people said and did was up to > them. Some may not have liked to deceive the vicar, but I doubt that > that was a widespread view. > > My own parents had no such scruples - they simply gave an aunt's > address, no suitcase involved at all. And both my grandmother and > great grandmother didn't even tell the truth about whether they were > already married! > > Paul

Hi Caroline I did say seemingly mythical :-) Yours is the first time I have heard first hand knowledge of it I can well understand the need to salve the conscience, certainly I don't think many would have any queasiness these days :-) Mind you who gets married these days <g> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/07/2012 20:26, Caroline Bradford wrote: > Whilst I would absolutely agree that no one ever checked, the > practice of leaving a suitcase in the hall or hanging a coat in the > spare bedroom is certainly not mythical. My mother insisted on my > doing this when I married in my old home parish (whilst actually > resident in London) 34 years ago tomorrow. She had done the same > thing in the 1940s. Neither she nor my grandmother were especially > pious, I think there was a certain queasiness about lying to the > vicar in those days. > > Caroline > > Sent from my iPad >