Hi Anne, Sorry! I forgot to mention that I had found Charlotte Payne with her parents, John H. & Sarah, in the 1881 census in West Hartlepool. Assuming that this is the right Payne family, I then managed to find John Payne in the 1851 with his widowed grandmother, Mary Hensman(?),and his likely sisters Charlotte & Mary L. Payne in Cromer. I also assume that in 1851 the widowed Mary Hensman is the Payne children's maternal grandmother. Maybe you have already found this entry I don't know. The ref. is HO107 piece 1809 folio 393 page 5, in case you don't have it already. Mary Hensman's surname is indexed as Hersman on Ancestry. Then I found what appears to be the same John Payne in the 1861 at sea on board the vessel Wenslydale, as I mentioned in my earlier message. I could not find him in the 1871 census but then he might have been at sea on a foreign registered ship and if he was out at sea, on a foreign registered ship, and not in a British port or on a British Registered ship, on census night, then he would not be enumerated. A British registered ship at sea would be counted as part of Britain even though it could be the other side of the world on census night. Having seen in the 1881 census that John was a master mariner I thought that the 1861 entry I found earlier was very likely your man. Have you investigated getting a copy of his Master Mariner certificate at all? If you can find his Certificate number you can then order a copy of that from the National Maritime Museum, NMM, at Greenwich London and it should come with the testimonial that goes with it. That testimonial gives a description of the man and names all of the ships he sailed on from when he first went to sea until he sat the exam for the certificate. All useful stuff for creating a picture of the family and the person. But you must find his Certificate number before you can apply for a copy of the document because the NMM need that number to find the original to make the copy for you. If you can find a crew list for one or other of the ships that John Payne sailed on you might find his number noted there. The LDS have some Crew lists on their films. The Mariners website will guide you when it comes to researching Mariners http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ There is a link on this site to the Mariners mailing list, which deals only with Ships and the men that sailed them and not with passengers. I have just found that in the 1891 census John Payne is once more at sea on board a ship called William Thomas, he spent census night on the River Tyne at Wallsend. He is noted as the Mate and signed the schedule as Mate. The ref. for this entry in case you need it is, RG12 piece 4222 folio 131, again no page number because this is a vessel. If he was a Master Mariner then at times he might well have signed on for a voyage as Mate, a in the 1891 census above. The mate would take over as Master of a vessel if the Master fell ill or when the master was resting etc. The Mate would be just as qualified as the master. I have two Master Mariner ancestors, father and son, from North Shields Northumberland and later Hartlepool and have researched them as fully as I have been able to. The younger of these two mariners, my Gt. Grandfather, was sailing as Mate on board the vessel that sailed to New Orleans in Sept./Oct. 1882 when he was lost overboard during a cyclone on the way home after leaving the USA 3 days earlier. The Lloyd's list of shipping for 1881-1882 shows that during that period my Gt. Grandfather sailed on this vessels a few times, sometimes as Master and at others as Mate. You might also find entries in the shippping columns of newspapers of the time for the ships your John Payne sailed on. I don't know how far back in time you have got with the Payne family to date but hope I might have helped a little bit. Regard Jenny DeAngelis