Hello all Am I right in thinking that until the passing of the Births and Deaths Registration Act in 1874 it was the responsibility of the local registrar rather than an individual to register the fact of a death, as it was for births? I have the record of a burial on 1 December 1853 in St George Hanover Square, but can find no trace of the record of the death, no matter what search criteria I have used in FreeBMD and elsewhere. All the relevant scans appear to have been transcribed, too. It puzzles me why the church itself would not have passed the details of the death to the local registrar, but unless the record has got lost somewhere between the local register (presumably Westminster in this case, though not necessarily as the death may not have occurred in the Hanover Square area) and the General Register, I am stumped. Though I am not entirely surprised as the couple concerned (the lady in question and her partner (they were not married)) did not register the birth of their 4 children either, although one of them at least was baptised. If anyone has any suggestions of what and where I might look I would be grateful. The person concerned was Elizabeth Watkins who died aged 29 in St Georges Hospital (unfortunately her date of death is not recorded, but I assume that it was not too long before 1 December and so should have been recorded in 4Q 1853 or 1Q 1854). She is recorded in the 1851 census aged 27, born in Cornwall, and a "visitor" in the house of William Bloxam. I suspect that she died in or soon after childbirth. Lawrence Pearse

On 09/07/2014 23:22, Lawrence Pearse wrote: > Am I right in thinking that until the passing of the Births and > Deaths Registration Act in 1874 it was the responsibility of the > local registrar rather than an individual to register the fact of a > death, as it was for births? IIRC, a burial wasn't supposed to take place without the production of a death certificate. What was supposed to happen and what did (for whatever reason) weren't necessarily the same thing. > I have the record of a burial on 1 December 1853 in St George > Hanover Square, but can find no trace of the record of the death, > no matter what search criteria I have used in FreeBMD and > elsewhere. Although the death was supposed to have been recorded by the registrar and past on quarterly to the GRO, a percentage did get missed/lost either between the register office and the GRO or the GRO and the indices. The GRO indices are copies of copies so plenty of room for errors to creep in. > All the relevant scans appear to have been transcribed, > too. It puzzles me why the church itself would not have passed the > details of the death to the local registrar, It wasn't for the church to pass on the death to the registrar. The deceased's family should have presented the incumbent with the death certificate. > but unless the record > has got lost somewhere between the local register (presumably > Westminster in this case, though not necessarily as the death may > not have occurred in the Hanover Square area) and the General > Register, I am stumped. You're right in saying the death was should be registered in the area where it occurred but burials could take place anywhere. > Though I am not entirely surprised as the > couple concerned (the lady in question and her partner (they were > not married)) did not register the birth of their 4 children > either, although one of them at least was baptised. Presumably you've already checked under the mother's birth name, rather than her partner's? Again births should have been in the area where it took place but could have somewhere other than the expected. If the registrar didn't find the newborn, the parents were supposed to register the child themselves. There was no penalty for non registrations so no incentive to do so. Some considered baptism registration enough and there were clergymen who actively discouraged their congregation from registering their children with the civil authorities. They saw it as taking the job away from them. It didn't of course. > If anyone has > any suggestions of what and where I might look I would be > grateful. It might be worth contacting the local register office to see if they have an entry for the lady concerned and also the GRO. They have been known to find events that are not in the indices. If you're contacting the GRO, remember to put GQ in the subject line. Were the couple of the level there'd be a notice in the papers? -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Thanks, Charani, for your very full answer which has cleared up a few issues. In terms of searching, both for this death record and the four birth records, I have searched under both surnames (Watkins and Bloxam, and variants) and under just the forenames (looking for likely errors/misspellings of the surname). But I suspect that it is no coincidence that in all 5 cases there appears to be no registered record. Nor have I found any death/birth notices in on line newspapers. William Bloxam (the partner/father) was a man of substance (an ex-banker and later JP). He was also 45 years older than Elizabeth Watkins, and indeed in his early 70s when he fathered the last of the 4 children. Perhaps he had his own reasons for not having the births/death registered other than through baptism/burial - though as you say the burial ought to have required the production of a death certificate. I must pay a visit to the Westminster Register Office to see what I can find in their local indices. Thanks again for your help. Lawrence ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 01:36:21 +0100 > From: charani.b@gmail.com > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDX] Registration of deaths > > On 09/07/2014 23:22, Lawrence Pearse wrote: > >> Am I right in thinking that until the passing of the Births and >> Deaths Registration Act in 1874 it was the responsibility of the >> local registrar rather than an individual to register the fact of a >> death, as it was for births? > > IIRC, a burial wasn't supposed to take place without the production of > a death certificate. > > What was supposed to happen and what did (for whatever reason) weren't > necessarily the same thing. > >> I have the record of a burial on 1 December 1853 in St George >> Hanover Square, but can find no trace of the record of the death, >> no matter what search criteria I have used in FreeBMD and >> elsewhere. > > Although the death was supposed to have been recorded by the registrar > and past on quarterly to the GRO, a percentage did get missed/lost > either between the register office and the GRO or the GRO and the > indices. The GRO indices are copies of copies so plenty of room for > errors to creep in. > >> All the relevant scans appear to have been transcribed, >> too. It puzzles me why the church itself would not have passed the >> details of the death to the local registrar, > > It wasn't for the church to pass on the death to the registrar. The > deceased's family should have presented the incumbent with the death > certificate. > >> but unless the record >> has got lost somewhere between the local register (presumably >> Westminster in this case, though not necessarily as the death may >> not have occurred in the Hanover Square area) and the General >> Register, I am stumped. > > You're right in saying the death was should be registered in the area > where it occurred but burials could take place anywhere. > >> Though I am not entirely surprised as the >> couple concerned (the lady in question and her partner (they were >> not married)) did not register the birth of their 4 children >> either, although one of them at least was baptised. > > Presumably you've already checked under the mother's birth name, > rather than her partner's? Again births should have been in the area > where it took place but could have somewhere other than the expected. > If the registrar didn't find the newborn, the parents were supposed > to register the child themselves. There was no penalty for non > registrations so no incentive to do so. Some considered baptism > registration enough and there were clergymen who actively discouraged > their congregation from registering their children with the civil > authorities. They saw it as taking the job away from them. It didn't > of course. > >> If anyone has >> any suggestions of what and where I might look I would be >> grateful. > > It might be worth contacting the local register office to see if they > have an entry for the lady concerned and also the GRO. They have been > known to find events that are not in the indices. If you're > contacting the GRO, remember to put GQ in the subject line. > > Were the couple of the level there'd be a notice in the papers? > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, > Greinton and Clutton, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message