Am now looking at British Newspaper Archives and find the Morning Chronicle reporting on 29 Aug 1833 on the marriage of the Earl of Uxbridge at St Peter's church Eaton Square. So the Westminster archives' registers do not include the earlier events. More to look for. JK On 28 May 2014 15:00, johnfhhgen <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: > On 28/05/2014 11:00 AM, J K gen wrote: >> It was a commissioners church built between 1824 and 1827. A fire in 1836 caused damage, but I cannot seem to find out how long it took to >> restore. Westminster archives online info pdf shows them holding registers of baptisms 1831-1965 and marriages 1845-1904. No mention of duplication >> or chapelry etc. >> Seems to have been formed out of St George Hanover Square, which itself was formed from St Martin in the Fields. >> JK > I was going to refer you to > http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Westminster/churches.htm > but checking reveals it is time I updated it! > > The usual quick key to establishment of a church district as a separate > parish is the date of the commencement of the marriage register, as > until a church became a parish church in its own right marriages could > not be solemnized there (after Banns) nor could it have its own marriage > register. Although all Baptisms in a parish has to be recorded in the > parish register at the parish church, most "new" churches/chapels within > a parish found it conveneient to also keep their own baptism registers, > copied up at intervals into the parish register, hence the apparent > duplication. IIRC, at St.Pancras this was done quarterly or even > annually, so the date run in the parent register is often much out of synch. > The precise date of he establishment of a new parish can be ascertained > from the relevant Order in Council or Act, and also from Young's "Guide > to the Local Administrative Units of England (1979). However, the > latter, which shows that St.Peter, Eaton Square, became a parish in > 1830, confuses its becoming an ecclesiastical district (still within the > parish of St.George's, Han.Sq.) in 1830, with its actual becoming a new > parish subsequent to the New Parishes Act of 1843. > Kind regards, > John Henley > > >> On 28 May 2014 10:14, J. Townsend <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> I've come across two baptisms of interest to me, 1831 and 1834, which appear >>> in both registers. St George's, Hanover Square was, as I understand, the >>> "parent" church. I assume St. Peter's, Eaton Square was a chapelry. >>> I think one of the online guides from the website of Westminster Archives >>> contains the relevant dates. >>> John >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----From: "J K gen" >>>> Checking for a baptism on FMP I find entries for Anne VINE baptised 24 >>>> Oct 1841 apparently duplicated between these two churches. >>>> Does anyone happen to know the period of overlap? and why? >>>> Thanks JK >>> > > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 28/05/2014 3:35 PM, J K gen wrote: > Am now looking at British Newspaper Archives and find the Morning > Chronicle reporting on 29 Aug 1833 on the marriage of the Earl of > Uxbridge at St Peter's church Eaton Square. So the Westminster > archives' registers do not include the earlier events. > More to look for. > JK On 28/05/2014 4:16 PM, J. Townsend wrote: > Very interesting. The (printed) register of St George's Hanover Square > says, "Married at St Peter's, Pimlico", 27 August 1833. It was by "Special > Licence", so does that somehow make it permissible to solemnize the marriage > at St Peter's rather than at the parish church of St George's, Hanover > Square? > An important question (for me) is whether any marriages were solemnized at > St. Peter's, Eaton Square without being recorded in the register of St > George's Hanover Square! I have assumed the answer is no. Are there any > B.T.s for St. Peter's, Eaton Square which include marriages? > Can anything be inferred about the kind of people who used St. Peter's, > Eaton Square for baptisms, or do you suppose they were simply the local > inhabitants in the main? > John I was careful to state that district churches could not conduct marriages after Banns. Marriages by Special Lincece, can of course, permit marriage in any place and at any hour, as specified in the Licence. But all marriages must be recorded in the parish register at the parish church, and since 1837, the duplicate marriage registers supplied by the Registrar General to the parish must be used. So the correct procedure was followed for the wedding of the Earl of Uxbridge. Until 1844/5, when St.Peter's became a parish church in its own right, the BTs would be for St.Geo.Han.Sq. registers. By the time St.Peter's became independent, BTs were falling out of fashion (not sure why?), and the way BTs were stored in St.Paul's Cathedral it is amazing any survived! Baptisms at St.Peter's should properly be from the designated district of 1830: in practice examinations of the addresses and occupations in the registers will tell the true story. In the 1830s St.Geo Han.Sq. was a bit of a marriage shop - 20-30 marriages not uncommon in mass ceremonies, interspersed with single cermonies for the well-to-do. By the end of the 19th.cent both St.Geo.H.S. and St.Peter's Eaton Sq. v.fashionable for society weddings. Kind regards, John Henley > > On 28 May 2014 15:00, johnfhhgen <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: >> On 28/05/2014 11:00 AM, J K gen wrote: >>> It was a commissioners church built between 1824 and 1827. A fire in 1836 caused damage, but I cannot seem to find out how long it took to >>> restore. Westminster archives online info pdf shows them holding registers of baptisms 1831-1965 and marriages 1845-1904. No mention of duplication >>> or chapelry etc. >>> Seems to have been formed out of St George Hanover Square, which itself was formed from St Martin in the Fields. >>> JK >> I was going to refer you to >> http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Westminster/churches.htm >> but checking reveals it is time I updated it! >> >> The usual quick key to establishment of a church district as a separate >> parish is the date of the commencement of the marriage register, as >> until a church became a parish church in its own right marriages could >> not be solemnized there (after Banns) nor could it have its own marriage >> register. Although all Baptisms in a parish has to be recorded in the >> parish register at the parish church, most "new" churches/chapels within >> a parish found it conveneient to also keep their own baptism registers, >> copied up at intervals into the parish register, hence the apparent >> duplication. IIRC, at St.Pancras this was done quarterly or even >> annually, so the date run in the parent register is often much out of synch. >> The precise date of he establishment of a new parish can be ascertained >> from the relevant Order in Council or Act, and also from Young's "Guide >> to the Local Administrative Units of England (1979). However, the >> latter, which shows that St.Peter, Eaton Square, became a parish in >> 1830, confuses its becoming an ecclesiastical district (still within the >> parish of St.George's, Han.Sq.) in 1830, with its actual becoming a new >> parish subsequent to the New Parishes Act of 1843. >> Kind regards, >> John Henley >> >> >>> On 28 May 2014 10:14, J. Townsend <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> I've come across two baptisms of interest to me, 1831 and 1834, which appear >>>> in both registers. St George's, Hanover Square was, as I understand, the >>>> "parent" church. I assume St. Peter's, Eaton Square was a chapelry. >>>> I think one of the online guides from the website of Westminster Archives >>>> contains the relevant dates. >>>> John >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "J K gen" >>>>> Checking for a baptism on FMP I find entries for Anne VINE baptised 24 >>>>> Oct 1841 apparently duplicated between these two churches. >>>>> Does anyone happen to know the period of overlap? and why? >>>>> Thanks JK >>