I have a marriage certificate for a grt uncle in October 1847. My problem is finding the couple in the 1851 census. Their address on the certificate is not easy to read but appears to be Menster Ground. Can anybody advise me as to what this address actually was? Thanks David Cork (researching Crossland in Islington/Whitechapel) -------------------------------------------------- From: <middlesex_county_uk-request@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:45 AM To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Subject: MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK Digest, Vol 5, Issue 198 > > > If you'd like your Digest format changed, please don't hesitate to contact > me, Ann, at the Middlesex List Admin address: > Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > To send a reply, or a new message to the List send it to > Middlesex_County_UK@rootsweb.com > > When replying to an earlier message please make sure the Subject line > reflects the content by changing it if necessary, and trim away > superfluous parts of earlier postings. Always use Plain Text for List > Messages - if unsure contact List Admin for help. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: St. Mary at Hill Marriages 1750-1765 (Jenny De Angelis) > 2. Re: alternate names for cicely (Jenny De Angelis) > 3. further to St. Mary at Hill marriages (Santa Traugott) > 4. Re: further to St. Mary at Hill marriages (JFHH) > 5. Re: further to St. Mary at Hill marriages (Judy Lester) > 6. Re: war enlistment (Jason Austin) > 7. Ann GRAIN - lost in 1851 (David Railton) > 8. Re: war enlistment (Jason Austin) > 9. change of email address (Hambrook) > 10. Re: Ann GRAIN - lost in 1851 (Peter) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:12:16 +0200 > From: "Jenny De Angelis" <jennyda2@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] St. Mary at Hill Marriages 1750-1765 > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <5CF256B0DEE849DB968C5256558CCFD1@jennysasus> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Santa T, > > According to the details on the familysearch site the original parish > registers for St. Andrew Hubbard 1538-1846 are held at the Guildhall > Library > London The Guildhall library nos. for these records are shown as 1278/1, > 1279/3, 4550 > > the batch number on the IGI for this church is C023621 for baptisms. > > The LDS have a film of the above PRs and other material for those years > mentioned. > Film no. 374407 covers Bapts. Vestry Minutes, Marriages, Burials, > Churchwardens Accounts, Overseers of the poor accounts & Poor Rates. All > for varying years. From about 1538-1846 dependant on which of the above > subjects you are looking at. > > If you can get to an LDS centre you could order a copy of this film and > work > your way through it, it costs very little to hire such films. You will > find > the address of your nearest LDS centre by going to the home page of the > familysearch site at www.familysearch.org where there is a section for > finding family history centres around the world but put in your area name > of > your country and see what results. > > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis > Spain. > > <<> I have been looking at the images at Ancestry for St. Mary at Hill and > marriages for the above period -- just the very one I need -- are missing. > I know St. Mary at Hill merged with St. Andrew Hubbard in 1670 but these > marriages are not in the records for that parish either (at least as shown > on ancestry). Does anyone have any idea where the marriage records for > these years might be?>> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:29:41 +0200 > From: "Jenny De Angelis" <jennyda2@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] alternate names for cicely > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <2D4A3C5341C94698A4D2D4A0160D3A9F@jennysasus> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hi Sue, > > After Lord Hardwicke's marriage Act of 1753, which came into effect in > 1754, > everyone had to marry in a Church of England, regardless of their > religious > persuassion. The only exception to this rule were Jews and Quakers who > were > allowed to marry in their own synagogues and meeting houses. > > You say that the family appear to have been non conformists and perhaps > when > Cicely married Joseph Boardman they probably married, from the dates you > give, sometime after this act was passed and would have been forced to > marry > in the CofE, if they married in England. > > Remember too that the IGI at familysearch is not an exhaustive resource, > not > all British parishes are included in the indexes there. > > It might be that they married in a parish which has not been put either > onto > the LMA records at the Ancestry site nor into the IGI online at > familysearch. But there is still the possibility that Cicely was not the > ladies first name and that she married under another name. > > Something I have just found on the Ancestry site and the LMA marriages and > Banns 1754-1921 is a marriage for a Cicely Boardman to a Richard Horne at > St. John Hackney in 1824 where she is shown as a minor and her father gave > his consent to the marriage. One of the witnesses was a Joseph Boardman > Jr. > > Could this be one of your Joseph Boardman's children marrying? > > I then found in the IGI the baptism of Cicely Boardman 6th Nov. 1803 St. > Matthew Bethnal Green, born 9th Sept. 1803 father Joseph Boardman mother > Martha. batch no. is C046983 which shows this to be an extracted record > rather than a patron submission. > > Using that batch number, region as British isles, the fathers name as > Joseph > Boardman I found further baptisms for Joseph and Martha between 1801 and > 1809, obviously at the same church because of using that batch number. > These fall into the period that you believe Joseph Boardman's wife would > have been Cicely. Could this mother be your Cicely under her proper name > of > Martha?? > > This is rather far fetched I know but might be something worth trying to > puzzle out to see where it leads. > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis > Spain. >>>> I don't have a lot of information unfortunately. Her Husband was a >> Joseph Boardman from spitalfields london, and I have just found out that >> he remarried a Lydia Williams parish st saviour southwark in 1808. >> cicely?? died in 1803 and is buried at Bunhill Fields along with Joseph >> in 1817. Also Lydia is buried at Bunhill Fields in 1814. Cicely is >> also >> named as Grandmother on a Baptism for her granddaughter. But the >> marriage between Joseph and Elizabeth Culmore in 1762 at St Matthews >> Bethnal Green is the only marriage for a Joseph Boardman that I can >> find. >> As they appear to be non conformists maybe I have got it all wrong and >> there is a record out there somewhere for a Cicely, but I just cannot >> find it anywhere.<< > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 09:35:36 -0400 > From: "Santa Traugott" <strau@umich.edu> > Subject: [MDX] further to St. Mary at Hill marriages > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <75C5F103DA5A4835ABDE16666469E052@Santae310> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The parish book of St. Mary at Hill appears to have been reproduced in its > entirety on Ancestry UK. It appears to be rather tightly bound into a > greenish volume, complete with a leather strap to close it. The pages > themselves are not numbered. > > Christenings go from image 1-106, and cover 1558-1803. Marriages of > 1558-1741 start on image 107 and end abruptly at image 130 in 1741. > Images 131-135 are christenings from 1805-1812. From 136 to the end are > burials. I have been through the volume page by page and the missing > marriages do not appear. > > It may be that there is an addendum to to this book that Ancestry simply > didn't pick up. > > So I am very curious as to where the records for these marriages went, and > somewhat dubious that they will appear on, e.g., a Family History library > microfilm. > > As I mentioned earlier, they also do not appear in St. Andrew Hubbard with > which St. Mary merged in 1690. > > So now I guess I am asking: what would be the reason these marriages were > not recorded in the original parish book; where might they be recorded, > and how would we know that sources that purport to contain St. Mary at > Hill registers have actually included these "missing marriages" wherever > they might have been found? > > [The marriage I am looking for is not on Britishorigins, sadly.] > > Santa T. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:47:22 +0100 > From: "JFHH" <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> > Subject: Re: [MDX] further to St. Mary at Hill marriages > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>, <strau@umich.edu> > Message-ID: <50A563247BF84A7CBA856EC3E6C365F7@youra97ec67e86> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Santa, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Santa Traugott" <strau@umich.edu> >> The parish book of St. Mary at Hill appears to have been reproduced in >> its entirety on Ancestry >> UK. It appears to be rather tightly bound into a greenish volume, >> complete with a leather strap >> to close it. The pages themselves are not numbered. >> Christenings go from image 1-106, and cover 1558-1803. Marriages of >> 1558-1741 start on image 107 >> and end abruptly at image 130 in 1741. Images 131-135 are christenings >> from 1805-1812. From 136 >> to the end are burials. I have been through the volume page by page and >> the missing marriages do >> not appear. >> It may be that there is an addendum to to this book that Ancestry simply >> didn't pick up. >> So I am very curious as to where the records for these marriages went, >> and somewhat dubious that >> they will appear on, e.g., a Family History library microfilm. >> As I mentioned earlier, they also do not appear in St. Andrew Hubbard >> with which St. Mary merged >> in 1690. >> So now I guess I am asking: what would be the reason these marriages >> were not recorded in the >> original parish book; where might they be recorded, and how would we know >> that sources that >> purport to contain St. Mary at Hill registers have actually included >> these "missing marriages" >> wherever they might have been found? >> [The marriage I am looking for is not on Britishorigins, sadly.] >> Santa T. > > According to the online catalogue of the LMA at > http://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/547?ADVANCEFORM&DATABASE=LMA_DESCRIPTION > they have for St.Mary at Hill > > Register of marriages. > Reference Code:P69/MRY4/A/006/MS04548 > Level of description:File > Parent Reference:P69/MRY4/A > Site Location:London Metropolitan Archives > Former Reference:MS 04548 > Dates of Creation:1813 - 1837 > Extent:1 volume > > and > Registers of marriages 1754-1812 and banns 1754-1813 of the united > parishes of St Mary at Hill and > St Andrew Hubbard. > Reference Code:P69/MRY4/A/005 > Level of description:Series > Parent Reference:P69/MRY4/A > Site Location:London Metropolitan Archives > Former Reference:MS 04547 > Dates of Creation:1754 - 1813 > Extent:2 volumes > Scope - Content:Vol.2 includes one marriage dated September 1783 > > and > > Register of baptisms 1558-1812, marriages 1558/9-1754 and burials > 1558-1812. Includes baptisms and > burials from St Andrew Hubbard 1742-1812. > Reference Code:P69/MRY4/A/001/MS04546 > Level of description:File > Parent Reference:P69/MRY4/A > Site Location:London Metropolitan Archives > Former Reference:MS 04546 > Dates of Creation:1558 - 1812 > Extent:1v, vellum > Scope - Content:Baptisms 1805-12 have been entered after the marriage > registrations > > It looks as if this last is what you examined at Ancestry, and for some > reason the post 1741 > marriages have not been picked up. > It might be worth an e-mail to the LMA to check that this is, in fact, the > case, and that the > marriages are present in the original volume. > The writing showing through on image 130 does *not* match that on Image > 131!! > > REgards > John Henley > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:59:18 +0100 > From: "Judy Lester" <jlester@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] further to St. Mary at Hill marriages > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <271419.15134.qm@smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Marriages from 1754 onwards are in the other database "London Marriages > & Banns 1754..." (searchable and browsable). So the gap on Ancestry > would appear to be 1741-1753. > > HTH > > Judy > London, UK > > -----Original Message----- > From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Santa > Traugott > Sent: 15 September 2010 14:36 > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MDX] further to St. Mary at Hill marriages > > The parish book of St. Mary at Hill appears to have been reproduced in > its entirety on Ancestry UK. It appears to be rather tightly bound > into a greenish volume, complete with a leather strap to close it. The > pages themselves are not numbered. > > Christenings go from image 1-106, and cover 1558-1803. Marriages of > 1558-1741 start on image 107 and end abruptly at image 130 in 1741. > Images 131-135 are christenings from 1805-1812. From 136 to the end are > burials. I have been through the volume page by page and the missing > marriages do not appear. > > It may be that there is an addendum to to this book that Ancestry simply > didn't pick up. > > So I am very curious as to where the records for these marriages went, > and somewhat dubious that they will appear on, e.g., a Family History > library microfilm. > > As I mentioned earlier, they also do not appear in St. Andrew Hubbard > with which St. Mary merged in 1690. > > So now I guess I am asking: what would be the reason these marriages > were not recorded in the original parish book; where might they be > recorded, and how would we know that sources that purport to contain St. > Mary at Hill registers have actually included these "missing marriages" > wherever they might have been found? > > [The marriage I am looking for is not on Britishorigins, sadly.] > > Santa T. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:50:11 -0700 > From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [MDX] war enlistment > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4C90EB33.40202@shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Hello Beryl > > Which war was this? > > Jason > > > > Beryle wrote: > >>I have a question that may not be answered here but I am stuck. I have a >>relation who was a bombardier in the royal artillery when he married my >>husbands aunt in portsmouth uk I think he was from Vermont usa which >>would make him a American I can't find a enlistment in America. Can anyone >>advise me where to look his name was Walter Wright I only have a marriage >>certificate. Beryle Masom Australia. >>************************************** >>Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** >>superfluous old messages in replies. >> >>List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 19:35:10 +0100 > From: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com> > Subject: [MDX] Ann GRAIN - lost in 1851 > To: <MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <89B91F3C1D04445481F1DE30CDB6D94E@davidPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am trying to find a lady by name of Ann GRAIN in the 1851 census. She > was > supposedly born in about 1789, place unknown. When she made her will in > 1850 > she described herself as being ".late of Devonshire Street, Portland Place > but now of Charles Street, Manchester Square.". When she died in 1853 she > was described as living at 79, Albany Street, Regents Park although the > death duty register gives 79, Upper Albany Street, Regents Park. > > > > I can't find her in the 1851 census, or the 1841. She will most likely be > described as being of independent means. > > > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > > > Thank you. > > > > David > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:40:28 -0700 > From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [MDX] war enlistment > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4C91131C.6070901@shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Thanks Karina, I'll try that! > > Love > > Dad > > > > Jason Austin wrote: > >>Hello Beryl >> >>Which war was this? >> >>Jason >> >> >> >>Beryle wrote: >> >> >> >>>I have a question that may not be answered here but I am stuck. I have a >>>relation who was a bombardier in the royal artillery when he married my >>>husbands aunt in portsmouth uk I think he was from Vermont usa which >>>would make him a American I can't find a enlistment in America. Can >>>anyone advise me where to look his name was Walter Wright I only have a >>>marriage certificate. Beryle Masom Australia. >>>************************************** >>>Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** >>>superfluous old messages in replies. >>> >>>List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>************************************** >>Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** >>superfluous old messages in replies. >> >>List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:10:15 -0700 > From: "Hambrook" <hambrooq@mail.ocis.net> > Subject: [MDX] change of email address > Cc: Middlesex <Middlesex_County_UK-L@rootsweb.com>, New Brunswick > <NewBrunswick-L@rootsweb.com>, gloucester@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <9757B52C42354AC1A358B613AE6CB580@owner7pb9thjaj> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > hambrooq@shaw.ca > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:45:39 +0100 > From: "Peter" <peterj.martin@lineone.net> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Ann GRAIN - lost in 1851 > To: <railton.david@btinternet.com>, <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001801cb556a$c7929d80$56b7d880$@martin@lineone.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > David, > > Certainly the index that I have to the 1851 Census of London does not pick > her out. However there are other Grain's about: > London 1851 Census index - Copyright S&N Genealogy Supplies 2005 > > > GRAIN HANNAH R Age:57 Piece:1484 PN:660 > FN:331 ST JAMES WESTMINSTER, ST JAMES'S SQUARE > GRAIN JAMES Age:59 Piece:1484 PN:660 > FN:331 ST JAMES WESTMINSTER, ST JAMES'S SQUARE > GRAIN JANE Age:67 Piece:1553 PN:672 > FN:337 STEPNEY, MILE END OLD TOWN LOWER > GRAIN MARY Age:64 Piece:1578 PN:017 > FN:008 WANDSWORTH, WANDSWORTH > GRAIN SUSAN Age:58 Piece:1591 PN:017 > FN:010 LEWISHAM, LEE-LEWISHAM VILLAGE-SYDENHAM > GRAIN SUSAN Age:65 Piece:1507 PN:364 > FN:184 ST GILES, ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY > GRAIN THOMAS Age:63 Piece:1591 PN:017 > FN:010 LEWISHAM, LEE-LEWISHAM VILLAGE-SYDENHAM > GRAIN THOMAS Age:66 Piece:1507 PN:364 > FN:184 ST GILES, ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY > > Peter > > > I am trying to find a lady by name of Ann GRAIN in the 1851 census. She > was > supposedly born in about 1789, place unknown. When she made her will in > 1850 > she described herself as being ".late of Devonshire Street, Portland Place > but now of Charles Street, Manchester Square.". When she died in 1853 she > was described as living at 79, Albany Street, Regents Park although the > death duty register gives 79, Upper Albany Street, Regents Park. > > I can't find her in the 1851 census, or the 1841. She will most likely be > described as being of independent means. > > Does anyone have any ideas? > Thank you. > David > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK list administrator, send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK mailing list, send an email > to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK Digest, Vol 5, Issue 198 > *************************************************** >