Jon, There is one death on FreeBMD that is for a Hannah Winter in the right area as follows:   Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page  Deaths Jun 1841   (99%) WINTER  Hannah    Bethnal Gn [javascript:golink("/cgi/districts.pl?r=4431810&d=bmd_1291127520")]  2 7 [javascript:gopage(1841,2,1,'2','7',1)]   Regards, Peter   On 05 December 2010 at 12:54 Jon Baker <baker.jon@sky.com> wrote: > After many years of family history research and following most of my lines, > I realise that I have hit a brick wall on one of my paternal fathers lines > with my 3*Great Grandparents, James WINTER and his wife Hannah. > > My Gt Gt Grandmother was Rosetta Sarah WINTER who married William John BAKER > in All Saints, Poplar on Christmas Day 1849. Rosetta was born in Shoreditch > on 24 Oct 1829 and christened nearly 5 years later at St Leonards on 4 May > 1834 (it really is a bonus when the records show the date of birth as well > as the baptism, thank you St Leonards). Her parents were recorded as James > and Hannah, and she has 4 other known siblings, all female, Jane born 1825, > Eliza Hannah also christened 4 May 1834, born 1827, Jessie Margaret also > christened the same day, born 1832, and Esther Priscilla, baptized 25 Jun > 1837, no birth date but probably 1835/36. No other children identified so > far. My Great Grandmother Rosetta died of cholera in 1866, still difficult > to imagine that 3 generations back our families were dying of cholera in > England. > > I have assumed that James Winter died before the 1841 census, I have been > unable to find any trace of him. Hannah was alive in 1841, listed as a Green > Grocer, living in James Street, Mile End Old Town with her 5 daughters > (assumed to be daughters although of course the 1841 gives no > relationships). Hannah I think died shortly afterwards, so I have no clues > about her place of birth, except that it was probably Middlesex. I have > followed up on 4 of the 5 daughters and found no clues, sometimes one finds > a family member staying with a household that gives a possible lead to the > family name, but in this case zilch. Unable to trace Jane the oldest > daughter. > > I have searched all the records I can to find a suitable marriage for James > Winter and Hannah, or Ann, Anne or Annie etc., but so far have drawn a > complete blank. I would really like to find out Hannah's maiden name so that > I can trace her line further, as well as looking further for James of > course. But I don't know where else to look. > > Does anyone have any suggestions. Would really appreciate some help with > this. > > Regards > > Jon Baker > Dorset OPC Co-ordinator > www.opcdorset.org > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sadly, Jon & Peter, this Hannah seems to have only been 1yr.3mo., from Somerford Street - Hannah Winter Record Type: Burial Estimated Death Date: abt 1841 Burial Date: 4 Jul 1841 Age: 1 Year 3 Months Estimated birth year: abt 1840 Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Matthew Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex However, some London cemeteries are searchable online. Also, there is a marriage in Bromley (Middx) for a Hannah Winter, widow, in 1849, but I cannot find an earlier marriage for her. Regards John Henley. ----- Original Message ----- From: <peter@basingstokecircuit.net> > Jon, There is one death on FreeBMD that is for a Hannah Winter in the right area > as follows: >  > > Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page > Deaths Jun 1841   (99%) > WINTER  Hannah   Bethnal Gn > [javascript:golink("/cgi/districts.pl?r=4431810&d=bmd_1291127520")]  2 7 > [javascript:gopage(1841,2,1,'2','7',1)] >  > Regards, Peter>  > On 05 December 2010 at 12:54 Jon Baker <baker.jon@sky.com> wrote: > >> After many years of family history research and following most of my lines, >> I realise that I have hit a brick wall on one of my paternal fathers lines >> with my 3*Great Grandparents, James WINTER and his wife Hannah. >> >> My Gt Gt Grandmother was Rosetta Sarah WINTER who married William John BAKER >> in All Saints, Poplar on Christmas Day 1849. Rosetta was born in Shoreditch >> on 24 Oct 1829 and christened nearly 5 years later at St Leonards on 4 May >> 1834 (it really is a bonus when the records show the date of birth as well >> as the baptism, thank you St Leonards). Her parents were recorded as James >> and Hannah, and she has 4 other known siblings, all female, Jane born 1825, >> Eliza Hannah also christened 4 May 1834, born 1827, Jessie Margaret also >> christened the same day, born 1832, and Esther Priscilla, baptized 25 Jun >> 1837, no birth date but probably 1835/36. No other children identified so >> far. My Great Grandmother Rosetta died of cholera in 1866, still difficult >> to imagine that 3 generations back our families were dying of cholera in >> England. >> >> I have assumed that James Winter died before the 1841 census, I have been >> unable to find any trace of him. Hannah was alive in 1841, listed as a Green >> Grocer, living in James Street, Mile End Old Town with her 5 daughters >> (assumed to be daughters although of course the 1841 gives no >> relationships). Hannah I think died shortly afterwards, so I have no clues >> about her place of birth, except that it was probably Middlesex. I have >> followed up on 4 of the 5 daughters and found no clues, sometimes one finds >> a family member staying with a household that gives a possible lead to the >> family name, but in this case zilch. Unable to trace Jane the oldest >> daughter. >> >> I have searched all the records I can to find a suitable marriage for James >> Winter and Hannah, or Ann, Anne or Annie etc., but so far have drawn a >> complete blank. I would really like to find out Hannah's maiden name so that >> I can trace her line further, as well as looking further for James of >> course. But I don't know where else to look. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions. Would really appreciate some help with >> this. >> >> Regards >> >> Jon Baker >> Dorset OPC Co-ordinator >> www.opcdorset.org

Jon, I should have added that the LMA has the registers of Tower Hamlets Cemetery (opened 1841) http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=074-cthc&cid=0#0 But they do not appear to have been added to Ancestry (check with LMA?), nor indexed, which means a time-consuming visit to the LMA. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: <peter@basingstokecircuit.net> > Jon, There is one death on FreeBMD that is for a Hannah Winter in the right area > as follows: >  > > Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page > Deaths Jun 1841   (99%) > WINTER  Hannah   Bethnal Gn > [javascript:golink("/cgi/districts.pl?r=4431810&d=bmd_1291127520")]  2 7 > [javascript:gopage(1841,2,1,'2','7',1)] >  > Regards, Peter >  > > On 05 December 2010 at 12:54 Jon Baker <baker.jon@sky.com> wrote: > >> After many years of family history research and following most of my lines, >> I realise that I have hit a brick wall on one of my paternal fathers lines >> with my 3*Great Grandparents, James WINTER and his wife Hannah. >> >> My Gt Gt Grandmother was Rosetta Sarah WINTER who married William John BAKER >> in All Saints, Poplar on Christmas Day 1849. Rosetta was born in Shoreditch >> on 24 Oct 1829 and christened nearly 5 years later at St Leonards on 4 May >> 1834 (it really is a bonus when the records show the date of birth as well >> as the baptism, thank you St Leonards). Her parents were recorded as James >> and Hannah, and she has 4 other known siblings, all female, Jane born 1825, >> Eliza Hannah also christened 4 May 1834, born 1827, Jessie Margaret also >> christened the same day, born 1832, and Esther Priscilla, baptized 25 Jun >> 1837, no birth date but probably 1835/36. No other children identified so >> far. My Great Grandmother Rosetta died of cholera in 1866, still difficult >> to imagine that 3 generations back our families were dying of cholera in >> England. >> >> I have assumed that James Winter died before the 1841 census, I have been >> unable to find any trace of him. Hannah was alive in 1841, listed as a Green >> Grocer, living in James Street, Mile End Old Town with her 5 daughters >> (assumed to be daughters although of course the 1841 gives no >> relationships). Hannah I think died shortly afterwards, so I have no clues >> about her place of birth, except that it was probably Middlesex. I have >> followed up on 4 of the 5 daughters and found no clues, sometimes one finds >> a family member staying with a household that gives a possible lead to the >> family name, but in this case zilch. Unable to trace Jane the oldest >> daughter. >> >> I have searched all the records I can to find a suitable marriage for James >> Winter and Hannah, or Ann, Anne or Annie etc., but so far have drawn a >> complete blank. I would really like to find out Hannah's maiden name so that >> I can trace her line further, as well as looking further for James of >> course. But I don't know where else to look. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions. Would really appreciate some help with >> this. >> >> Regards >> >> Jon Baker >> Dorset OPC Co-ordinator >> www.opcdorset.org

John I think I may have found Hannah and Joseph in 1851, and is this will almost confirm that this is Hannah Winter. On Ancestry they are indexed as "Tratta", though the original looks more like Trattall. To help daughter Jessy aged 18 is living with them, though of course she is recorded as Jessy Trattall rather than Winter. Joseph is also a Coal Whipper as in the marriage record. So, reasonably confident that with your help which was excellent I have found not only that Hannah lived beyond 1841 but also that she remarried and her father's name is recorded as Hines or Vines. Great stuff. Thanks again Jon Baker -----Original Message----- From: JFHH [mailto:johnfhhgen@uwclub.net] Sent: 05 December 2010 17:47 To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com; baker.jon@sky.com Subject: Re: [MDX] Looking for WINTER - trails goes cold Jon, I should have added that the LMA has the registers of Tower Hamlets Cemetery (opened 1841) http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=074-cthc&cid=0#0 But they do not appear to have been added to Ancestry (check with LMA?), nor indexed, which means a time-consuming visit to the LMA. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: <peter@basingstokecircuit.net> > Jon, There is one death on FreeBMD that is for a Hannah Winter in the right area > as follows: >  > > Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page > Deaths Jun 1841   (99%) > WINTER  Hannah   Bethnal Gn > [javascript:golink("/cgi/districts.pl?r=4431810&d=bmd_1291127520")]  2 7 > [javascript:gopage(1841,2,1,'2','7',1)] >  > Regards, Peter >  > > On 05 December 2010 at 12:54 Jon Baker <baker.jon@sky.com> wrote: > >> After many years of family history research and following most of my lines, >> I realise that I have hit a brick wall on one of my paternal fathers lines >> with my 3*Great Grandparents, James WINTER and his wife Hannah. >> >> My Gt Gt Grandmother was Rosetta Sarah WINTER who married William John BAKER >> in All Saints, Poplar on Christmas Day 1849. Rosetta was born in Shoreditch >> on 24 Oct 1829 and christened nearly 5 years later at St Leonards on 4 May >> 1834 (it really is a bonus when the records show the date of birth as well >> as the baptism, thank you St Leonards). Her parents were recorded as James >> and Hannah, and she has 4 other known siblings, all female, Jane born 1825, >> Eliza Hannah also christened 4 May 1834, born 1827, Jessie Margaret also >> christened the same day, born 1832, and Esther Priscilla, baptized 25 Jun >> 1837, no birth date but probably 1835/36. No other children identified so >> far. My Great Grandmother Rosetta died of cholera in 1866, still difficult >> to imagine that 3 generations back our families were dying of cholera in >> England. >> >> I have assumed that James Winter died before the 1841 census, I have been >> unable to find any trace of him. Hannah was alive in 1841, listed as a Green >> Grocer, living in James Street, Mile End Old Town with her 5 daughters >> (assumed to be daughters although of course the 1841 gives no >> relationships). Hannah I think died shortly afterwards, so I have no clues >> about her place of birth, except that it was probably Middlesex. I have >> followed up on 4 of the 5 daughters and found no clues, sometimes one finds >> a family member staying with a household that gives a possible lead to the >> family name, but in this case zilch. Unable to trace Jane the oldest >> daughter. >> >> I have searched all the records I can to find a suitable marriage for James >> Winter and Hannah, or Ann, Anne or Annie etc., but so far have drawn a >> complete blank. I would really like to find out Hannah's maiden name so that >> I can trace her line further, as well as looking further for James of >> course. But I don't know where else to look. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions. Would really appreciate some help with >> this. >> >> Regards >> >> Jon Baker >> Dorset OPC Co-ordinator >> www.opcdorset.org