Graham Many thanks for these references. I will have to see if I can find some information about how old James may have been. This would make him significantly older than his wife Hannah, 9-15 years depending on her actual age which seems to vary. Jan sent me an extract from a newspaper which reported that a James Winter hanged himself while in police custody in Oct 1837. This could fit with the christening date of his youngest daughter in June 1837 - no proof he was alive at the time, but working on the assumption that he may not have been named or been recorded as deceased if not. Following up on this there is a death registered in the Dec 1837 quarter for James Winter in Marylebone. I think it may be worth investing in a copy of the death certificate. I am sort of hoping this isn't my James, but who knows. Out of interest, do these addresses mean anything to others - The Curtain, Christopher's Alley, Horseshoe Alley? Rose & Crown Court I can understand. Thanks to everyone who has helped thus far, I seem to have made rapid progress. I know now that Hannah's father was Henry Hines/Vines or similar. I have traced her in 1851 and as a result satisfied myself that she did marry Joseph Trattell (as she is living next to her daughter/son in law in 1851). I have traced not only her death but also that of Joseph. They are elusive in the 1861 census, but then so are my 2*Gt Grandparents William and Rosetta Baker who were next door neighbours in 51 - evidently there are parts of Bethnal Green missing from 1861. Now I also have a possible lead for James' death and maybe even his baptism. Plenty still to do, but my brick wall seems to have crumbled with the help of many of you on this list. Thanks to you all for your help. Jon Baker -----Original Message----- Hi Jon However, I was wondering if perchance, this was your James Winter? Shoreditch, St. Leonards - baptisms 1785-1801. No page or record numbers. 03 Jul 1791. James s/o Richard & Jane Winter of The Curtain. Born 8 Feb. Also, to the same family: 20 Jun 1793. Jemima d/o Richard & Jane Winter of The Curtain. Born 24 May. 20 Sep 1795. Edward s/o Richard & Jane Winter of Christopher's Alley. Born 1 Jun. The address, which you don't get on the IGI, often helps. 1801-1810: 11 May 1801 Edward James s/o Richard & Jane Winter of Horseshoe Alley. Born 14 Mar. (Assuming that the first Edward died early, and pre-supposing this is the same family?? Always the chance there are two different families.) 23 Jun 1803. Frederick John s/o Richard & Jane Winter of Ross (Rose?) & Crown Court. Born 23 Jan. 20 May 1804. Emma Frances d/o Richard & Jane Winter of Ross & Crown Court. Born 27 Apr. 17 Aug 1806. Mary d/o Richard & Jane Winter of Rose & Crown Court. Born 17 Jul.