Hello. Could I ask please for help as to where I can write to get more info on Vicar General Marriage Licences. I have 3 marriages I would like to check belonging to WOODMAN marriages. It supplies the male surname and the female surname along with the dates, but no christian names. One of these 3 might be the marriage I am searching for. Thank you for any help. April. New Forest

On 10/06/2014 10:12 AM, Robert MACQUEEN wrote: > Hello > I have found the image for Westminster burials records on Findmypast and wonder who compiled these? were they written at the time of burial. > I am asking as my GGGGranfathers brother James MACQUEEN is shown as John MACQUEEN in the record. > I had previously found a transcription on Ancestry and assumed it was a transcription mistake but now I see that it is incorrect in the written record. > Could it be a transcription mistake then - 1830 - or could he have been known as John? > Thank you Bob > . > ************************************** Thanks for the confirmation provided by the memorial stone - I assume the dates tally with the register. I suspect that in any rough notes, Jno. would be used for John, Jas. for James, and it is easy then to see how the two names may be confused in writing up later, especially if someone else is transcribing the rough note into the register. Regards, John Henley

Hi Caroline Thank you. The image is on Find my Past so not sure if it is BT or not. What surprises me is that he has a memorial stone in St James Piccadilly as James. Also in his will although living in Duke Street he is “of Berners Street” and there is a John MacQueen in Berners Street. Regards Bob On 10 Jun 2014, at 11:03, Caroline Bradford <caroline.bradford@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi Bob > > The burial registers of St James, Westminster (AKA St James, Piccadilly) > were, like all CofE parish registers, the responsibility of the incumbent > clergyman. However, it was not uncommon for the actual writing up of the > registers to be undertaken by a church official. Moreover, the registers > were rarely written up "live". The details of the event would have been > written (scribbled?) in a day book (or even a scrap of paper) then copied > into the registers at a later date. > > At that date, copies were made of the original registers and submitted to > the local Bishop on a regular basis. It is, I think, these BTs that Ancestry > have. > > It is entirely possible that a mistake could have been made, either through > a misunderstanding at the time of burial or when the contemporary note was > written up into the registers. > > Hope this helps > > Caroline > > >> Hello >> I have found the image for Westminster burials records on Findmypast and >> wonder who compiled these? were they written at the time of burial. >> I am asking as my GGGGranfathers brother James MACQUEEN is shown as >> John MACQUEEN in the record. >> I had previously found a transcription on Ancestry and assumed it was a >> transcription mistake but now I see that it is incorrect in the written > record. >> Could it be a transcription mistake then - 1830 - or could he have been > known >> as John? >> >> Thank you >> Bob >> . > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 10/06/2014 10:12, Robert MACQUEEN wrote: > Hello > I have found the image for Westminster burials records on > Findmypast and wonder who compiled these? were they written at the > time of burial. > I am asking as my GGGGranfathers brother James MACQUEEN is shown as > John MACQUEEN in the record. > I had previously found a transcription on Ancestry and assumed it > was a transcription mistake but now I see that it is incorrect in > the written record. > Could it be a transcription mistake then - 1830 - or could he have > been known as John? Burials were usually noted at the time and written up later. They would have been done by the parish clerk or the vicar. I've found John and James used interchangably although they aren't alternatives for each other. It's possible whoever wrote up the burial register wrote John but meant James. Proving that might be a bit more difficult. -- Connie http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/

Hi Bob The burial registers of St James, Westminster (AKA St James, Piccadilly) were, like all CofE parish registers, the responsibility of the incumbent clergyman. However, it was not uncommon for the actual writing up of the registers to be undertaken by a church official. Moreover, the registers were rarely written up "live". The details of the event would have been written (scribbled?) in a day book (or even a scrap of paper) then copied into the registers at a later date. At that date, copies were made of the original registers and submitted to the local Bishop on a regular basis. It is, I think, these BTs that Ancestry have. It is entirely possible that a mistake could have been made, either through a misunderstanding at the time of burial or when the contemporary note was written up into the registers. Hope this helps Caroline > Hello > I have found the image for Westminster burials records on Findmypast and > wonder who compiled these? were they written at the time of burial. > I am asking as my GGGGranfathers brother James MACQUEEN is shown as > John MACQUEEN in the record. > I had previously found a transcription on Ancestry and assumed it was a > transcription mistake but now I see that it is incorrect in the written record. > Could it be a transcription mistake then - 1830 - or could he have been known > as John? > > Thank you > Bob > .

Hello I have found the image for Westminster burials records on Findmypast and wonder who compiled these? were they written at the time of burial. I am asking as my GGGGranfathers brother James MACQUEEN is shown as John MACQUEEN in the record. I had previously found a transcription on Ancestry and assumed it was a transcription mistake but now I see that it is incorrect in the written record. Could it be a transcription mistake then - 1830 - or could he have been known as John? Thank you Bob

I have been unable to find either a birth registration or a baptism for Richard JOYCE who appears in the 1871 census, aged 11 and given as born in Marylebone. He went on to marry Rosa/Rose BYRON. This Richard is not the one born in 1852 and named Henry Richard (my gt gt granddad) The only entry I've found is for a Walter Richard JOYCE whose birth was registered in Poplar district. I don't think this is the child I'm looking for but I haven't found his baptism on Ancestry yet. Can anyone help find him please? He's the only one of the family wholly unaccounted for prior to marriage. -- Connie http://oursalmons.wordpress.com/

I was at school in the New Forest and we were in the middle of various troop units massing for the departure. I recall the British troops, who had experience of fighting, as stoical and even anxious to get on with it, even though they knew what to expect. But there were Americans too, callow lads with no battle experience, inclined to boast about what they were going do do when they got over there - ironic as many of them had German names. They really upset the British Army men who had been there, done that. But when it got closer to the Day (which was a fairly well leaked secret), they tended to panic and some were send to use part of the school for what I presume was a psychological briefing on the 'pull your socks up' lines. I think it was the first time I had heard adult men crying (if the early 20s is adult for males) I daresay the talking to took effect, since they seem to have pulled their weight bravely enough, once in France. In my class was Malcolm, the son of Donald (later Sir Donald) Bailey, the genius who designed the Bailey Bridge. It was tried out in Africa and came into great use on D-Day. ( I am inclined to picture the 'Bridge over troubled waters' as a Bailey Bridge.). One of my cousins was killed then (another on the Arnhem raid, where he got a military Medal) \ We saw them about a fortnight before they left (individually) and both promised they would bring back a souvenir for Granny - and she said 'just bring yourselves safely', which sadly they didn't. We used to knit 'comforts' in incredibly stiff wool substitute, which was rough on the fingers and couldn't have been exactly comfortable to the skin Turned me against knitting for life. It was something to do though in the 'shelters', which were actually corridors protected by blast proof walls over all windows, which made them rather murky by day. We also collected aluminium foil to make ammunition - I am not exactly sure of the mechanics of that; and beech mast for the pigs -easy to see the end result there; and took turns helping nurses at the military hospitals/convalescent places, but even there, the injured didn't complain or tell stories of their adventures., beyond 'I must have dropped my lighter over there'. EVE > >>Today is the 70th anniversary of D-Day. There are a number of stories > >>in about what happened. > >> > >>Does anyone here have any recollections of events or memories of being > >>told of them which they are willing to share? Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On the 6th June 1944 my father in law Tom HURST was on the HMS Ramillies, which was in support of Sword beach, he joined her in April 1944 They laid fire on the Berneville Battery knocking out four of the six 6" guns, later silencing the other two During the Ramillies Normandy engagement she fired 1,002 15" shells said to be a record bombardment by any ship of the time Outside the Imperial War Museum are two huge 15" guns, one from the Ramillies, the other from another Normandy veteran, HMS Roberts He was also on the Ramillies when she gave fire support during the invasion of Southern France in August 1944 He served on various ships in his time in the Navy 1943 to 1947 He said virtually nothing of his war service to his wife and daughters, he did relate a little to me over time I was listening to the radio tonight and a veteran came on who was also on the Ramillies during D Day, although she had a crew of 900+ its a small world considering how many survivors there must be now Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

My Dad never wanted to talk about 'his' war. But I thought you might be interested to read about a bit of his history. Dad was a pall bearer to Winston Churchill at (Blaydon?) in Oxfordshire. As a member of the (then) Queen's Royal Irish Hussars it must have been a huge honour to be picked for this duty. On the day, just as they had laid Winston in his grave my Dad's medals cane away from his uniform, and, landing on the coffin, made an enduring dent in the plaque! I now have those medals and a letter from the then Colonel attesting to this. I've never read about this in any historical items though. Hope this 'factoid' is of interest and it's OK to post it. Regards, Martin -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Pearse Sent: 06 June 2014 19:38 To: carolyn crowley; Middlesex List Subject: Re: [MDX] D-Day anniversary A good friend of mine, now 88, was serving in the Navy at the time and was on one of the first boats to go on to Gold Beach soon after 7.00am. He was a signaller, and his job was to send a message back to Southampton to tell them what had happened. His landing craft was damaged by an under water mine, but they still managed to land their troops. He himself had no rifle or other weapon, not even a helmet. He says that there was not a lot of shooting where he was. He also tells me that his only food was a biscuit, but that as he had recently had most of his teeth out he was only able to suck it! He was picked up by another vessel later in the morning and returned to Southampton. He has never returned to Normandy, and I doubt that his health will now allow him to. > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:29:07 -0500 > From: ccrowley2@earthlink.net > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDX] D-Day anniversary > > About 7 a.m., my mother woke me up, saying "The invasion has started." I was 12 years old, nearly 13. Although our small family in Fayetteville, Tennessee, USA, did not have anyone in the armed services, we closely followed the war news on the radio and in the newspapers. My father, the only veterinarian in Lincoln County, was a veteran of World War I. This time he did his part by keeping the county's dairy cattle healthy and productive. Sadly, he died only six weeks later, at the age of 54. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> >>Sent: Jun 6, 2014 6:05 AM >>To: Middx <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> >>Subject: [MDX] D-Day anniversary >> >>Today is the 70th anniversary of D-Day. There are a number of stories >>in about what happened. >> >>Does anyone here have any recollections of events or memories of being >>told of them which they are willing to share? >> >>-- >>Charani (UK) >>OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, >>Greinton and Clutton, SOM >>http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message . ************************************** Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A good friend of mine, now 88, was serving in the Navy at the time and was on one of the first boats to go on to Gold Beach soon after 7.00am. He was a signaller, and his job was to send a message back to Southampton to tell them what had happened. His landing craft was damaged by an under water mine, but they still managed to land their troops. He himself had no rifle or other weapon, not even a helmet. He says that there was not a lot of shooting where he was. He also tells me that his only food was a biscuit, but that as he had recently had most of his teeth out he was only able to suck it! He was picked up by another vessel later in the morning and returned to Southampton. He has never returned to Normandy, and I doubt that his health will now allow him to. > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:29:07 -0500 > From: ccrowley2@earthlink.net > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDX] D-Day anniversary > > About 7 a.m., my mother woke me up, saying "The invasion has started." I was 12 years old, nearly 13. Although our small family in Fayetteville, Tennessee, USA, did not have anyone in the armed services, we closely followed the war news on the radio and in the newspapers. My father, the only veterinarian in Lincoln County, was a veteran of World War I. This time he did his part by keeping the county's dairy cattle healthy and productive. Sadly, he died only six weeks later, at the age of 54. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> >>Sent: Jun 6, 2014 6:05 AM >>To: Middx <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> >>Subject: [MDX] D-Day anniversary >> >>Today is the 70th anniversary of D-Day. There are a number of stories >>in about what happened. >> >>Does anyone here have any recollections of events or memories of being >>told of them which they are willing to share? >> >>-- >>Charani (UK) >>OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, >>Greinton and Clutton, SOM >>http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Today is the 70th anniversary of D-Day. There are a number of stories in about what happened. Does anyone here have any recollections of events or memories of being told of them which they are willing to share? -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

About 7 a.m., my mother woke me up, saying "The invasion has started." I was 12 years old, nearly 13. Although our small family in Fayetteville, Tennessee, USA, did not have anyone in the armed services, we closely followed the war news on the radio and in the newspapers. My father, the only veterinarian in Lincoln County, was a veteran of World War I. This time he did his part by keeping the county's dairy cattle healthy and productive. Sadly, he died only six weeks later, at the age of 54. -----Original Message----- >From: Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> >Sent: Jun 6, 2014 6:05 AM >To: Middx <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> >Subject: [MDX] D-Day anniversary > >Today is the 70th anniversary of D-Day. There are a number of stories >in about what happened. > >Does anyone here have any recollections of events or memories of being >told of them which they are willing to share? > >-- >Charani (UK) >OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, >Greinton and Clutton, SOM >http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Bob, Conrad Street is on this Stanford's 1878 map, towards the lower left corner of the square. It's very small and runs north/south between Devonshire Road and Loddiges Road. http://london1878.com/stanford28b.htm (click to enlarge the image) However, this map is 1878, and I've had no success finding Conrad Street in either the 1851 or 1861 census street index. According to the LCC's official "Streets and Places ... of London 1929", the street name was not approved until 1863. Can you say where your 1850 reference comes from? HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bob MacQueen Sent: 30 May 2014 19:24 To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [MDX] Conrad Street Can anyone tell me where Conrad Street was? Possible in Hackney? Dates about 1850. Thank you Bob

Can anyone tell me where Conrad Street was? Possible in Hackney? Dates about 1850. Thank you Bob Sent from my iPad

HI Les, Following on from my earlier message, and also from what Pauline has written to you. You could try to find a birth registration on FreeBMD using the child's first name and your Gt. Grandmother's maiden name, perhaps prior to the birth of your grandmother. It all depends on how old the child was in the record that you have found him in. Another thought is that your Gt. Grandfather might have had a child by another woman and brought the child home for his wife to bring up as her own? The fact that you say it was all kept very quiet seems to point to the child being illegitimate within the family to me. If for instance the child's parents had died, or his mother just abandoned him or something, and your family took him in out of kindness then why keep it so quiet? If there was no family shame about it then why the secrecy? If it were me I would start by looking for a birth reg. on FreeBMD under the family name and see where that leads. If the child has a fairly uncommon first name and you have an idea of his year of birth and where he was born you could also try searching FreeBMD with just those details but that could be a long job of work. Good Luck with it, if you need some help from the list you would need to post some details but not if the person or people concerned might still be living of course. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Pauline Taylor wrote:- <<I don't know if that is of any help to you, but it may be that the relationship of your mother to her ' possibly adopted' brother was closer than you think. People were very concerned about keeping up appearances then, but my mother must have wanted me to find out as she also left me letters and postcards which refer to her brother Ernest.>> Les wrote:- <<> probably from around 1915/20? There is a family member on my paternal > grandmother's side who was apparently a relation (possibly cousin) but > was> adopted by my GGM and brought up with my grandmother as her brother. > From what I know it was kept very quiet and no one seems to know what his > surname was pre-adoption, so I don't have much to go on. Les H.>>,

Further snippets: SoG transcription of Boyd's Marriage Index (on FMP no images) has the 1833 marriage taking place at St George Hanover Square. Westminster Archives info implies they don't have registers for this period. They make no mention of BTs. LMA's own A-Z of London parishes states that St George Hanover Square is at Westminster, and doesn't mention that it holds BTs, and again says St Peter is at Westminster Archives. Online at Ancestry from LMA are BTs, but not for St Peter's church, those for St George Hanover Square stop in 1832. There's reports in relevant newspapers at British Newspaper Archives of the fire damage to St Peter's which took place at end of 1836, first report appearing 1 Jan 1837. Mentions of rescuing some things from inside the church, suggestions that the vestry itself was undamaged, one would like to think that the parish records and registers were therefore safe. The baptism records held at Westminster would appear to date from 1831, the marriages from 1844. Therefore presumably St Peter's didn't have its own marriage register. JK On 28 May 2014 18:08, johnfhhgen <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: > On 28/05/2014 5:53 PM, johnfhhgen wrote: >> I was careful to state that district churches could not conduct >> marriages after Banns. Marriages by Special Lincece, can of course, >> permit marriage in any place and at any hour, as specified in the >> Licence. But all marriages must be recorded in the parish register at >> the parish church, and since 1837, the duplicate marriage registers >> supplied by the Registrar General to the parish must be used. So the >> correct procedure was followed for the wedding of the Earl of >> Uxbridge. Until 1844/5, when St.Peter's became a parish church in its >> own right, the BTs would be for St.Geo.Han.Sq. registers. By the time >> St.Peter's became independent, BTs were falling out of fashion (not >> sure why?), and the way BTs were stored in St.Paul's Cathedral it is >> amazing any survived! Baptisms at St.Peter's should properly be from >> the designated district of 1830: in practice examinations of the >> addresses and occupations in the registers will tell the true story. >> In the 1830s St.Geo Han.Sq. was a bit of a marriage shop - 20-30 >> marriages not uncommon in mass ceremonies, interspersed with single >> cermonies for the well-to-do. By the end of the 19th.cent both >> St.Geo.H.S. and St.Peter's Eaton Sq. v.fashionable for society >> weddings. Kind regards, John Henley > > Meant to have added: > This book has an interesting Introduction covering the development of > parishes:The New parishes acts, 1843,1844, & 1856. With notes and > observations [&c.] by J.C. Traill > > > The New parishes acts, 1843,1844, & 1856. With notes and observations > [&c.] by J.C. Traill > > > http://books.google.co.uk/books/reader?id=hrIOAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&source=gbs_atb_hover&pg=GBS.PA125 > > as well as printing the Acts in full. > Kind regards, > John Henley > > . > ************************************** > Send your List messages using *PLAIN TEXT* and always *DELETE* superfluous old messages in replies. Only include the one to which you are replying. > > *MEANINGFUL Subject Lines* ie who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > > The archives can be found at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=middlesex_county_uk > > . > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 28/05/2014 5:53 PM, johnfhhgen wrote: > I was careful to state that district churches could not conduct > marriages after Banns. Marriages by Special Lincece, can of course, > permit marriage in any place and at any hour, as specified in the > Licence. But all marriages must be recorded in the parish register at > the parish church, and since 1837, the duplicate marriage registers > supplied by the Registrar General to the parish must be used. So the > correct procedure was followed for the wedding of the Earl of > Uxbridge. Until 1844/5, when St.Peter's became a parish church in its > own right, the BTs would be for St.Geo.Han.Sq. registers. By the time > St.Peter's became independent, BTs were falling out of fashion (not > sure why?), and the way BTs were stored in St.Paul's Cathedral it is > amazing any survived! Baptisms at St.Peter's should properly be from > the designated district of 1830: in practice examinations of the > addresses and occupations in the registers will tell the true story. > In the 1830s St.Geo Han.Sq. was a bit of a marriage shop - 20-30 > marriages not uncommon in mass ceremonies, interspersed with single > cermonies for the well-to-do. By the end of the 19th.cent both > St.Geo.H.S. and St.Peter's Eaton Sq. v.fashionable for society > weddings. Kind regards, John Henley Meant to have added: This book has an interesting Introduction covering the development of parishes:The New parishes acts, 1843,1844, & 1856. With notes and observations [&c.] by J.C. Traill The New parishes acts, 1843,1844, & 1856. With notes and observations [&c.] by J.C. Traill http://books.google.co.uk/books/reader?id=hrIOAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&source=gbs_atb_hover&pg=GBS.PA125 as well as printing the Acts in full. Kind regards, John Henley

On 28/05/2014 3:35 PM, J K gen wrote: > Am now looking at British Newspaper Archives and find the Morning > Chronicle reporting on 29 Aug 1833 on the marriage of the Earl of > Uxbridge at St Peter's church Eaton Square. So the Westminster > archives' registers do not include the earlier events. > More to look for. > JK On 28/05/2014 4:16 PM, J. Townsend wrote: > Very interesting. The (printed) register of St George's Hanover Square > says, "Married at St Peter's, Pimlico", 27 August 1833. It was by "Special > Licence", so does that somehow make it permissible to solemnize the marriage > at St Peter's rather than at the parish church of St George's, Hanover > Square? > An important question (for me) is whether any marriages were solemnized at > St. Peter's, Eaton Square without being recorded in the register of St > George's Hanover Square! I have assumed the answer is no. Are there any > B.T.s for St. Peter's, Eaton Square which include marriages? > Can anything be inferred about the kind of people who used St. Peter's, > Eaton Square for baptisms, or do you suppose they were simply the local > inhabitants in the main? > John I was careful to state that district churches could not conduct marriages after Banns. Marriages by Special Lincece, can of course, permit marriage in any place and at any hour, as specified in the Licence. But all marriages must be recorded in the parish register at the parish church, and since 1837, the duplicate marriage registers supplied by the Registrar General to the parish must be used. So the correct procedure was followed for the wedding of the Earl of Uxbridge. Until 1844/5, when St.Peter's became a parish church in its own right, the BTs would be for St.Geo.Han.Sq. registers. By the time St.Peter's became independent, BTs were falling out of fashion (not sure why?), and the way BTs were stored in St.Paul's Cathedral it is amazing any survived! Baptisms at St.Peter's should properly be from the designated district of 1830: in practice examinations of the addresses and occupations in the registers will tell the true story. In the 1830s St.Geo Han.Sq. was a bit of a marriage shop - 20-30 marriages not uncommon in mass ceremonies, interspersed with single cermonies for the well-to-do. By the end of the 19th.cent both St.Geo.H.S. and St.Peter's Eaton Sq. v.fashionable for society weddings. Kind regards, John Henley > > On 28 May 2014 15:00, johnfhhgen <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: >> On 28/05/2014 11:00 AM, J K gen wrote: >>> It was a commissioners church built between 1824 and 1827. A fire in 1836 caused damage, but I cannot seem to find out how long it took to >>> restore. Westminster archives online info pdf shows them holding registers of baptisms 1831-1965 and marriages 1845-1904. No mention of duplication >>> or chapelry etc. >>> Seems to have been formed out of St George Hanover Square, which itself was formed from St Martin in the Fields. >>> JK >> I was going to refer you to >> http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Westminster/churches.htm >> but checking reveals it is time I updated it! >> >> The usual quick key to establishment of a church district as a separate >> parish is the date of the commencement of the marriage register, as >> until a church became a parish church in its own right marriages could >> not be solemnized there (after Banns) nor could it have its own marriage >> register. Although all Baptisms in a parish has to be recorded in the >> parish register at the parish church, most "new" churches/chapels within >> a parish found it conveneient to also keep their own baptism registers, >> copied up at intervals into the parish register, hence the apparent >> duplication. IIRC, at St.Pancras this was done quarterly or even >> annually, so the date run in the parent register is often much out of synch. >> The precise date of he establishment of a new parish can be ascertained >> from the relevant Order in Council or Act, and also from Young's "Guide >> to the Local Administrative Units of England (1979). However, the >> latter, which shows that St.Peter, Eaton Square, became a parish in >> 1830, confuses its becoming an ecclesiastical district (still within the >> parish of St.George's, Han.Sq.) in 1830, with its actual becoming a new >> parish subsequent to the New Parishes Act of 1843. >> Kind regards, >> John Henley >> >> >>> On 28 May 2014 10:14, J. Townsend <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> I've come across two baptisms of interest to me, 1831 and 1834, which appear >>>> in both registers. St George's, Hanover Square was, as I understand, the >>>> "parent" church. I assume St. Peter's, Eaton Square was a chapelry. >>>> I think one of the online guides from the website of Westminster Archives >>>> contains the relevant dates. >>>> John >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "J K gen" >>>>> Checking for a baptism on FMP I find entries for Anne VINE baptised 24 >>>>> Oct 1841 apparently duplicated between these two churches. >>>>> Does anyone happen to know the period of overlap? and why? >>>>> Thanks JK >>

Very interesting. The (printed) register of St George's Hanover Square says, "Married at St Peter's, Pimlico", 27 August 1833. It was by "Special Licence", so does that somehow make it permissible to solemnize the marriage at St Peter's rather than at the parish church of St George's, Hanover Square? An important question (for me) is whether any marriages were solemnized at St. Peter's, Eaton Square without being recorded in the register of St George's Hanover Square! I have assumed the answer is no. Are there any B.T.s for St. Peter's, Eaton Square which include marriages? Can anything be inferred about the kind of people who used St. Peter's, Eaton Square for baptisms, or do you suppose they were simply the local inhabitants in the main? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "J K gen" <gen2mail@gmail.com> To: "Middx list" <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] St Peter, Eaton Square and St George, Hanover Square > Am now looking at British Newspaper Archives and find the Morning > Chronicle reporting on 29 Aug 1833 on the marriage of the Earl of > Uxbridge at St Peter's church Eaton Square. So the Westminster > archives' registers do not include the earlier events. > > More to look for. > > JK > > On 28 May 2014 15:00, johnfhhgen <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: >> On 28/05/2014 11:00 AM, J K gen wrote: >>> It was a commissioners church built between 1824 and 1827. A fire in >>> 1836 caused damage, but I cannot seem to find out how long it took to >>> restore. Westminster archives online info pdf shows them holding >>> registers of baptisms 1831-1965 and marriages 1845-1904. No mention of >>> duplication >>> or chapelry etc. >>> Seems to have been formed out of St George Hanover Square, which itself >>> was formed from St Martin in the Fields. >>> JK > >> I was going to refer you to >> http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Westminster/churches.htm >> but checking reveals it is time I updated it! >> >> The usual quick key to establishment of a church district as a separate >> parish is the date of the commencement of the marriage register, as >> until a church became a parish church in its own right marriages could >> not be solemnized there (after Banns) nor could it have its own marriage >> register. Although all Baptisms in a parish has to be recorded in the >> parish register at the parish church, most "new" churches/chapels within >> a parish found it conveneient to also keep their own baptism registers, >> copied up at intervals into the parish register, hence the apparent >> duplication. IIRC, at St.Pancras this was done quarterly or even >> annually, so the date run in the parent register is often much out of >> synch. >> The precise date of he establishment of a new parish can be ascertained >> from the relevant Order in Council or Act, and also from Young's "Guide >> to the Local Administrative Units of England (1979). However, the >> latter, which shows that St.Peter, Eaton Square, became a parish in >> 1830, confuses its becoming an ecclesiastical district (still within the >> parish of St.George's, Han.Sq.) in 1830, with its actual becoming a new >> parish subsequent to the New Parishes Act of 1843. >> Kind regards, >> John Henley