1841 Census. Yes, found them by chance. and found his sister Emily aged 4, with 2 of her very young cousins (Biltons) at school Ref HO 107 Piece 681, Civil Parish, St Pancras, Enumeration District 1, Folio 10, Page 14 Line 9. Roll 438797. Yes I agree, ir is a shocking image. Will have another closer look. Will enlarge it as far as possible clearly. Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > I take it you've found his brothers Swithin & James at school in Portman Place in 1841 at HO107; Piece 678; > Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: ; Page: ; Line: 21; > GSU roll: 438794. > It's a horrible image and I'm not surprised there seem to be quite a few obvious mistranscriptions in the > index. It might pay to look more closely at the images in case William was mistranscribed. > Anne > > Anne > >

I take it you've found his brothers Swithin & James at school in Portman Place in 1841 at HO107; Piece 678; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: ; Page: ; Line: 21; GSU roll: 438794. It's a horrible image and I'm not surprised there seem to be quite a few obvious mistranscriptions in the index. It might pay to look more closely at the images in case William was mistranscribed. Anne Anne Anne Chapman wrote: > With regard to the 1841 Census, he may be there, but not discovered that > it is definitely him. He would have been 7 years old. One of his > sisters was at school at 4 years of age. What a thought to be sending > children as young as that "away" to school. > The Naval Training ship in NSW took them at about 14. Anne >

With regard to the 1841 Census, he may be there, but not discovered that it is definitely him. He would have been 7 years old. One of his sisters was at school at 4 years of age. What a thought to be sending children as young as that "away" to school. The Naval Training ship in NSW took them at about 14. Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > I meant to add, too, that at the age of 19, he's unlikely to have any mate's/master's certificates unless he > went to sea at a very early age - as a cabin boy, perhaps (although that doesn't explain his absence on the > 1841 census, I don't think they took them that young). My ancestors were all in their early-mid 20s when they > got their first certificates. > That shouldn't stop you from looking though! > > Anne > > Anne Chambers wrote: > >> Anne, there's a William Horne (no further details) arriving in NSW from Victoria in 1858 as a passenger >> Wm Horne >> Port of Departure: Melbourne >> Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales >> Voyage Arrival Date: 4 Feb 1858 >> Vessel Name: Dunedin >> >> I can't find him on Ancestry's Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923, which >> does indicate that he may have been crew on the Wellington and possibly jumped ship to join the gold rush. >> >> Anne >> South Australia >> > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

That is wonderful, Anne. Just this morning, I was searching for another person who came to this area and found him on the "Wonga Wonga" as a miner coming from Melbourne to Sydney in April 1858. I did have a very good look for William. Nan Bailey found him on the Unassisted Inward Passenger Lists to Victoria 1852 - 1923. He is listed as Wm Horne, aged 19 (correct) January 1853 Ship Wellington with the ref of Port B, Fiche 025, Page 001. With this there was a note to consult other microfiche if letter "B" appears in Port column. The Ship "Wellington" sailed from Portsmouth, London, on the 26 September 1852 arriving Port Phillip 2 January 1853 -- just over 3 months for the journey. Anyone in Victoria, who may be able to access this extra information, their assistance would be very much appreciated My cousin in Sydney found a William Horne, miner with miners right, on the Victorian Goldfields at Creswick for the Electoral Roll of 1856/7. This new information fits in very well with that. We feel that he did not "jump ship". His subsequent wife had been born in Sydney in 1846. Louisa's father was working for a Mr Matthews, Leather Cutter in George Street, Sydney at the time of her birth. William ( John) Horne's mother was a Matthews before her marriage. We always wondered if there was a connection -- maybe this is it, and that is the way William & Louisa met. Thank you once again -- think this has pulled it all together. Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > Anne, there's a William Horne (no further details) arriving in NSW from Victoria in 1858 as a passenger > Wm Horne > Port of Departure: Melbourne > Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales > Voyage Arrival Date: 4 Feb 1858 > Vessel Name: Dunedin > > I can't find him on Ancestry's Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923, which > does indicate that he may have been crew on the Wellington and possibly jumped ship to join the gold rush. > > Anne > South Australia > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thank you Jenelle, the seafarer sounds good. Will check that out. Anne Jenelle McCarrick wrote: > Have you also gone through Mariners and ships in Australian Waters and also > the Australian Maritime Museum look at index for was your ancestor a > seafarer, have ships captains, mates, etc. where born and where they got > their certificates.. > Jenelle. >

I meant to add, too, that at the age of 19, he's unlikely to have any mate's/master's certificates unless he went to sea at a very early age - as a cabin boy, perhaps (although that doesn't explain his absence on the 1841 census, I don't think they took them that young). My ancestors were all in their early-mid 20s when they got their first certificates. That shouldn't stop you from looking though! Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > Anne, there's a William Horne (no further details) arriving in NSW from Victoria in 1858 as a passenger > Wm Horne > Port of Departure: Melbourne > Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales > Voyage Arrival Date: 4 Feb 1858 > Vessel Name: Dunedin > > I can't find him on Ancestry's Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923, which > does indicate that he may have been crew on the Wellington and possibly jumped ship to join the gold rush. > > Anne > South Australia

Anne, there's a William Horne (no further details) arriving in NSW from Victoria in 1858 as a passenger Wm Horne Port of Departure: Melbourne Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales Voyage Arrival Date: 4 Feb 1858 Vessel Name: Dunedin I can't find him on Ancestry's Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923, which does indicate that he may have been crew on the Wellington and possibly jumped ship to join the gold rush. Anne South Australia

HI Anne, thankyou for your offlist reply. I have a Seaman in my husband's DeAngelis family who came from Italy to Middlesex some time in the 1840s I believe. He married in Middlesex in 1852, had a daughter born there in 1856. Then in April 1858 he had a son born at California Gully Victoria where the birth registration shows him as a miner. By 1861 he was back in Middlesex and noted as a seaman once more. I have never been able to find out when exactly he and his wife and child went to Australia, during the period of 1856 - 1858 nor when he returned to the UK. I have no idea which ships he sailed on each way. I think he might have worked the passages for himself and his family perhaps, but can't be sure about this. Maybe your William Horne signed on for the outward voyage, from England but didn't sign on for the return voyage. He no doubt sailed to AUS with the intention of trying his luck on the goldfields. If he had been in the Royal Navy then he might have jumped ship over there. But not a merchant seaman, he was paid by the voyages that he signed on for, I believe, so no need to jump ship. The idea of getting rich on the Victoria goldfield must have been very attractive to most men at the time, especially a young single man with a taste for adventure and who was used to being at sea for long periods of time. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> Thank you to Anne, Nivard, Nan and a special thanks to Jenny whom I > have answered off line this morning. Please accept my thanks to anyone I > have missed from this list. > A new piece to the puzzle came to life yesterday with the discovery of > a William Horne, miner with a miners right, on the Victorian Goldfields at > Creswick, just north of Ballarat for 1856. (Electoral Roll). "Our" > William would have been 22 at that time and certainly old > enough to > vote>>.

Have you also gone through Mariners and ships in Australian Waters and also the Australian Maritime Museum look at index for was your ancestor a seafarer, have ships captains, mates, etc. where born and where they got their certificates.. Jenelle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Chapman" <anne@chapman.id.au> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] William John HORNE -- Mariner > Jann, > Thank you for this. Had not had time yesterday or this morning, but > will do it now. Anne > > jan royal wrote: >> >> >> >> Anne, have you checked the nla newspapers? there are references there, >> this is just in case you have not already done so, >> >> regards, >> >> Jan >> >> >> > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Jann, Thank you for this. Had not had time yesterday or this morning, but will do it now. Anne jan royal wrote: > > > > Anne, have you checked the nla newspapers? there are references there, this is just in case you have not already done so, > > regards, > > Jan > > >

Anne, have you checked the nla newspapers? there are references there, this is just in case you have not already done so, regards, Jan > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 09:24:50 +1000 > From: anne@chapman.id.au > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MDX] William John HORNE -- Mariner > > Thanks once again for all your help in this "brick wall". Anne > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

I notice by Googling that St. Ann Blackfriars was destroyed during the Great Fire of 1665 and not rebuilt but afterwards merged with St. Andrew of the Wardrobe. My question is, I have just been looking (via Ancestry) at baptism and marriages registers for St. Ann Blackfriars that clearly resume after an interruption around 1680 and go forward. That is, there is not a separate book before and after 1685, although the hands are clearly different. And the entries don't seem to be labeled St. Andrew. What do I not understand or have I missed about this? Santa T.

Thank you to Anne, Nivard, Nan and a special thanks to Jenny whom I have answered off line this morning. Please accept my thanks to anyone I have missed from this list. A new piece to the puzzle came to life yesterday with the discovery of a William Horne, miner with a miners right, on the Victorian Goldfields at Creswick, just north of Ballarat for 1856. (Electoral Roll). "Our" William would have been 22 at that time and certainly old enough to vote. Looks like a bit more digging. Thanks once again for all your help in this "brick wall". Anne

The following link shows London Burial Sites marked on a Google map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=102822060546051659926.00044fcedc59b4d57f997&msa=0&z=10

thank you Jenny De Angelis for your detailed advice re researching mariners. I now have new avenues to investigate. Much appreciated. judy

Hi Anne Would you kindly send me details re above as I have accidently deleted same. Thanks David

No sorry, David, my William (John) Horne, was married in 1861 in Bibbenluke, near Bombala by that stage and had 2 children. My cousin has found a William Horne, miner, (with a miners right), on the Victorian Goldfields, at Creswick, in 1856, so it is more than likely, now that the Wm Horne, aged 19 (correct age) who arrived on the "Wellington" in January 1853 as a Mariner, is ours. Nothing definite, BUT. Thanks for your interest. Anne David Armstrong wrote: > Hello Anne > I have a William Horne , British , born 1833 , serving as an AB seaman on > the "Prince Albert", arriving Sydney , NSW , in 1864. Could be yours. > Do you want the image? > Cheers > David >

Hello Anne I have a William Horne , British , born 1833 , serving as an AB seaman on the "Prince Albert", arriving Sydney , NSW , in 1864. Could be yours. Do you want the image? Cheers David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] William John HORNE -Mariner Hi Anne If he is not with his family in 1841 is it not more likely that he died ? When you say "He married Louisa Anna Wilson" I am not sure if you mean the man who arrived in Australia or your man ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Hi Listers, I am wondering if any of you wonderful people, might be able to push me in the right direction, to find my Great Grandfather’s Marine records. My Great Grandfather, William John Horne, was born at 9 Munster Street, Regents Park, Middx on the 15 December 1833 to parents Swithin & Eliza Horne (nee Matthews). William was christened on 7 January 1834 at St Pancras Old Church, where his parents were married and his 12 sisters and brothers were christened. William was not with the family at the above address in the 1841 Census, reason, away at school? So far we have ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2976 - Release Date: 07/02/10 04:35:00

HI Anne, Firstly I apologise for the length of this mail but I wanted to help as much as I could from my own experience with researching mariners. I agree with others that if William Horne showed himself on records as a mariner then he was very likely in the Merchant Navy and not the Royal Navy. If he was a master mariner then you have more chance of finding records for him as Master Mariners had to gain a certificate as a Master Mariner. Ordinary seaman didn't have to do so. Master mariners also signed on to ships at times as 1st Mate because the 1st mate would take over command of the vessel if the master was taken ill or was just resting. This is what I have found with my own master mariners at least. Up until about 1845 a man could become a master going on his past experience at sea, he had to fill out a testimonial giving a list of ships sailed on, date of signing on and off to each vessel. After about 1845 they brought in Examinations, but men could still get their certificate on their past experience at that time too. A little later on a man had to sit the exam in order to gain his master's certificate and also fill out the testimonial with the list of vessels sailed on and the position held on board each one, with dates of signing on and off from each one. I have 2 master mariners in my ancestry, father and then his son, I have both of their copy certificates and testimonials which I obtained from the Nat. Maritime Museum Greenwich London. The elder man gained his certificate in 1851 going on his past experience and without sitting the examination that his son later sat in 1871. The same father had his youngest son apprenticed to him on board his ship in the 1861 census, that youngest son became a Boatswain/Bosun, he too would have had to pass an exam to show he was capable of doing the job though I have not researched him to date. The man who became a master in 1871 had a son who later became a 2nd. Class Engineer, later to become a 1st class engineer, who went to sea. He too had to pass exams, first to become a 2nd. class engineer and then to become a 1st class engineer, I have both of his testimonials and certificate copies, again supplied by the NMM at Greenwich. Those testimonials not only show ships sailed on but also time spent on shore working in shipyards learning his trade. These records can be very useful, if they exist for your mariner, it all depends on what job he did on board the ships he sailed on and if he worked his way up to become a master, bosun or engineer or some such position on board where he needed to gain a certificate. The only problem is that you do need the man's certificate number before you can order a copy of his record from the NMM. But if your man had been a master mariner then his number should appear on the crew lists for the ships he sailed on. This is where I found my oldest mariners cert. number, on a crew list for his ship in 1860. The following might be worth a try if you are looking for Crew Lists. Go to the Mariners website, which you will probably find useful anyway. http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ Click on the link for the UK, then, ignoring the links on the yellow background, read the paragraph about the Nat. Archives holdings for Mariners records and how many of them have been filmed by the LDS. Then follow the link and the instructions for the Short Cut to finding the section of the catalogue, of the LDS. Do exactly as the instructions say in order to get to the page number 260 where you will see a short list of British Crew Lists etc., that can be hired on LDS film. Follow the links to find the page giving Film Numbers which you need to place your order for a film by. If you can get to an LDS centre it is well worth ordering a film or two, for a reasonable fee. You can search the whole of the LDS catalogue via the familysearch site by clicking on the link at the top of the page Search Record and then clicking on the link for Library Catalogue, make a place search putting in the name of the place that interests you to see what is available for that place or parish. I have done a lot of my research using LDS films at the centre here in Barcelona, so saving me lots of flights to the UK. You might also find the Mariners mailing list helpful, see the link on the above Mariners website. The Mariners list only deals with ships and the men who sailed them and not with passengers etc. I found the list very helpful when I was researching my mariners above. The subscribers seem to be a lot of ex mariner and some still serving I believe. They helped me with details of some of the vessels whose names I had in the testimonials for my 3 mariners so that I could build up a picture of each mans marine career quite a bit. Many of the British ship crew lists are not held at the Nat. Archives any longer, they were all going to be destroyed by the, then, PRO who had decided to only keep a sample and saving those for years ending in 5 or something like that. Fortunately the Maritime History Archive at Newfoundland bought up a great number of these crew lists and saved them from destruction. The Maritime History Archives site is at http://www.mun.ca/mha/ and if you find the number of a particular vessel, the vessels official registration number, then you can search their site for that number to see if the hold crew lists for her. See the On Line Crew Lists link on the home page of the MHA site. If you find a crew list for the Wellington on an LDS film maybe, then that should give you her official reg. number and you could search the MHA crew lists online to see if they hold any further lists for her perhaps. they will supply copies I believe for a fee. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain.

Thank you Anne, I have had a look at the website, nothing came up for Wm Horne, or variants, the Wellington Crew List 1853 brought up many things but I was timed out by the time I got to Page 3. I was just skimming over the options to see what was most appropriate. Seems like a good place to start, Thank you for that. Anne Anne Chambers wrote: > It's just occurred to me that if he was on the Wellington as a mariner, he might have been part of the crew. > In which case, you might be able to find the crew list at the Maritime Museum in Greenwich. > > http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/archive/catalogue/ > > Anne > South Australia > >