Hello I am new to this list and not sure what areas covered by the old Middlesex - I presume it was much of Greater London? My surname interest is MACGREGOR and the places involved include Finchley/Friern Barnet, Hendon, Willesden and thereabouts from 1900-1950s. If anyone is connected with these Macgregors, I would be delighted to correspond. These were my maternal ancestors on the father's side. I am also interested in the maternal mother's side and the surname here is CULL of North Kensington, but I know very little about them apart from the census entries. many thanks Jacqueline Cooper

Hi all This is something I never thought to ask before - would anyone have any knowledge regarding the Saracens Head Hotel or Inn at Carter's Lane, Snow Hill, Holborn? My great-great aunt, Ellen Bennett born 1839, Soho, Westminster was the housekeeper of this hotel (1881 census), a reasonably important position no doubt, but she disappears from view come the 1891 census and I have not a clue what happened to her. I have a reasonable amount of information from history re. the Saracen's Head, but anything anyone may have would be appreciated, especially any information re. the staff/servants etc. of the hotel 1870s-1900s. By the way do you think that Sun Hill in "The Bill," is really Snow Hill? Cheers Graham Melboujrne Oz

The family of George Broome and Selina Hewett are in the 1891 census at 299 Brunswick Road, Bromley/Bow. Children: George b.1885, William T.b.1888, and Amy Emily b.1890, census states born Poplar. The family are not found in the 1901 census and I am advised that the enumerator's page for the last address indicates that the householder left taking the forms with him. This was a consequence of the death of mother Selina a week or two prior to census night. George senior later remarried (detail found); George junior went on the become vaudeville/musichall star George Clark (detail found), but to date nothing further positive found for William and Amy in any records (ie, 1911 census, WW1 records and Free BMD's). An unproven family story suggests William was either injured or killed whilst cycling to/from Southend on Sea before/after a vaudeville act with his father. By 1911 George senior was a publican in a mews behind Buckingham Palace with a new family. Commonality of names precludes anything positive on William and nothing at all for Amy. (I did think she may have been placed with other Hewett family members in the East End but nothing found there.) The Broome connections are in Hartwich, Essex, but George senior was born in West Ham. Perhaps Amy was placed into an orphanage? Any suggestions or advice appreciated. Les Hewett, Napier, New Zealand.

Graham First of all, it is Ellen Chapple, not Chapelle - and it definitely says Nurse Sick - there is the upwards stroke of a letter from the line below that probably made you think it said neusy Lawrence > Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:54:55 +1000 > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > From: genetree@tpg.com.au > Subject: [MDX] 1901 Census Chapple > > Hi all > Could anyone who has access to Ancestry or FMP please check in on > Ellen Chapelle, widow, born 1839, living at 184 Kings Road, > Chelsea RG13 72 113 29 enumeration district 9 Chelsea North and see > if they can decipher what looks like in profession or occupation - > Neusy Sick? Could also be Nurse, Sick. Most grateful. > Cheers > Graham > Melbourne > Oz > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now

A lot of the locations are shot in Croydon. A useless bit of information for you! Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Bradford" <caroline.bradford@btinternet.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [MDX] Saracens Head Hotel, Snow Hill > > The Sun Hill in "The Bill" is a suburb, not a street, in the fictitious > London Borough of Canley, which appears to roughly equate to the actual > Borough of Tower Hamlets, not the City. The name apparently derives from > a > street in the Hertfordshire home town of the series' creator. I got this > from Wikipedia - I am not an expert on the programme! > > Best wishes > > Caroline >

Hi Graham Be careful not to confuse more than one establishment called the Saracen's Head. There were once a number of inns of that name in the City of London, the most famous being in Snow Hill in the parish of St Sepulchre. One of the others was in Carter (originally Little Carter) Lane, just south of St Paul's Churchyard. The former was a very well known establishment, and very old, and is mentioned frequently in contemporary accounts of London. Its most notable appearance in literature is as the venue for the employment interview between Wackford Squeers and Nicholas Nickleby. The old inn was demolished in 1868 to make way for the construction of Holborn Viaduct - an event so notable that it was reported, with a large etching of the event, on the front page of the Illustrated London News. So Ellen's place of employment in 1881 would not have been the old coaching inn, but a more modern hotel, presumably named after the old inn. There is no sign of it in 1871, presumably because the surrounding area was still under reconstruction. In 1891 it is shown on the census as Number 10 Snow Hill, still being run by Matthew WOODHILL and family. It then disappears, so presumably did not survive. As to Ellen, I think she probably married Charles Skinner CHAPPLE at All Saints Fulham in 1889. The entry in the marriage register gives her father as William BENNETT (deceased), a builder, which is consistent with the 1841 census. Charles and Ellen are in Fulham in 1891, with Ellen giving her place of birth as Soho. The Sun Hill in "The Bill" is a suburb, not a street, in the fictitious London Borough of Canley, which appears to roughly equate to the actual Borough of Tower Hamlets, not the City. The name apparently derives from a street in the Hertfordshire home town of the series' creator. I got this from Wikipedia - I am not an expert on the programme! Best wishes Caroline > Hi all > This is something I never thought to ask before - would anyone have > any knowledge regarding the Saracens Head Hotel or Inn at Carter's > Lane, Snow Hill, Holborn? My great-great aunt, Ellen Bennett born > 1839, Soho, Westminster was the housekeeper of this hotel (1881 > census), a reasonably important position no doubt, but she disappears > from view come the 1891 census and I have not a clue what happened to > her. > > I have a reasonable amount of information from history re. the > Saracen's Head, but anything anyone may have would be appreciated, > especially any information re. the staff/servants etc. of the hotel > 1870s-1900s. By the way do you think that Sun Hill in "The Bill," is > really Snow Hill? > > Cheers > Graham > Melboujrne > Oz >

Many thanks for the two off-list responses I have received to this query Ian _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

A few more details might help find her. How do you know she was born at North Audley Street ? Do you have her birth certificate ? What name did she marry under ? Who did she marry and when ? Presumably BRITTEN. Have you looked on censuses after 1851 for a George ADAMS with a daughter/step-daughter/daughter in law(often used instead of step-daughter) called Fanny? Have you looked for a will for Donald Macpherson in The National Archives catalogue or thegenealogist.co.uk ? This is a possibility, if you can place him in either the 1841 or 1851 censuses in England Will of Donald McPherson, Lieutenant Colonel of the 39th Regiment of Foot of Burgie-house near Forres , Moray Date 06 November 1852 Catalogue reference PROB 11/2162 Anne South Asutralia Diane Potter wrote: > Hello > My great grandmother was named Fanny. Her real father was Donald MacPherson. > She was born on North Audley St. Middlesex, about Sept 1845 and was > illegitimate. North Audley St. snip

Ian, The historical background pages of the London Lives website are informative: http://www.londonlives.org/static/AHDSWHD.jsp#toc2 "... In Westminster the franchise was in effect limited to men who paid rates in support of the poor. Voter's names and the details of who they cast their votes for were recorded. Because Westminster returned two MPs, every voter cast two votes, allowing each voter to split their support between candidates or to cast both votes for a single candidate. Beyond this Poll Books could contain information about the address and occupation of the voter, his religious status, the basis for his qualification to vote, and the assessed rental value of his house. Normally kept at the public hustings, the Poll Book was cross-checked against the relevant Rate Book to confirm the status of each individual voter . . ." [etc.] Which suggests that he wasn't necessarily the owner of property, but simply a rate-payer. I may be wrong, but I believe Westminster was the only Middlesex borough where all male rate-payers had a vote at this period. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ian Buckley On the London Lives website I found a record dated 1818 relating to an ancestor - Westminster Ratebooks: Property values of Westminster Electors. The record gives the 'rack rental value' (£15) of his address in Stafford Place. My question - does the fact that he appears as a Westminster Elector imply anything about his social status? Or were all male residents of Westminster described as Electors? Does the record imply that he owned the property, or may he simply have been renting it?

Anne That looks like what was meant. Thanks for all your help. I have been checking out London weavers on the net today and it has been very interesting reading. In the mid to laye 1800's the weavers had a hard time because of the new looms designed, and many ended out of work, That was probably why the 2 boys ended up going to Australia. regards, Nan On 10 July 2010 21:16, Anne Chambers <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> wrote: > I think it may be Fringe and Guafs (i.e. guass) weaver, in which case, > maybe gauze weaver > http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/227303/gauze-weave > > Anne >

Hi Bob Well you have a good one here >From the LMA baptisms on Ancestry (as found) Name: William Sherman Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 10 Sep 1822 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Victualler King of Prussia Walk Name: Phillip Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1824 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Carpenter Hoxton New Town Name: Mary Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 11 Oct 1826 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Carpenter Bath Street Name: James Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 16 Oct 1835 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Carpenter Curtain Road Born 24th Aug 1835 Name: Joseph Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 16 Oct 1835 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Carpenter Curtain Road Born 24th Aug 1835 Name: Sarah Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 25 Feb 1838 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch Borough: Hackney County: London Carpenter Curtain Road aged 4 months Name: Harriet Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1844 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex Carpenter Queen Street 7th May 1842 Then William born 20th April 1828 Name: William Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1844 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex Rhoda born 20th April 1833 Name: Rhoda Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1844 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex James born 19th June 1840 Name: James Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1844 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex Harriet born 7th May 1842 Name: Harriet Torry Record Type: Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1844 Father's Name: James Torry Mother's Name: Mary Torry Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex More anon Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi List > > A plea from the North West of England. I am trying to trace the parents of > James TORRY born 1794 Stepney and Mary OLIVER nothing known about her. > They were married on the 18th October 1821 at Christ Church Spitalfields. > They had one daughter Mary born 1826. > > Any help would be very useful. > Many thanks > > Bob Owen, Southport Lancs.

Hi List A plea from the North West of England. I am trying to trace the parents of James TORRY born 1794 Stepney and Mary OLIVER nothing known about her. They were married on the 18th October 1821 at Christ Church Spitalfields. They had one daughter Mary born 1826. Any help would be very useful. Many thanks Bob Owen, Southport Lancs.

Hello My great grandmother was named Fanny. Her real father was Donald MacPherson. She was born on North Audley St. Middlesex, about Sept 1845 and was illegitimate. North Audley St. runs between Oxford St. and Grosvenor Square. I don't know but I have a feeling Fanny's mother was a servant (just my feelings) I have heard this story from 3 different cousins on my side of the family. These cousin hadn't seen each other in many many years and I got the same story from each of them. I don't want to upset anyone, that is not my purpose, I would just like to find him and know a bit of background on him. The story goes: Fanny's mother (never found out what her name was) and Donald MacPherson loved each other and were going to get married. I believe it was Donald's parent who told him that if he married her he would be put out of the family for good (black sheep I guess). They never married but when Donald died he left money to his daughter Fanny in his WILL. She could not prove that he was her father and never got her money. I am not after the money, probably not there anymore. I would just like to find out about him and if anyone does have the WILL I would love a copy of it. I have done research for 22 years now and have never been able to find anything on Fanny. On her marriage cert. it says her father is George Adams (deceased), says he was a Stone Mason. I have a beautiful oil painting of a gentleman and don't know if it is George Adams or Donald MacPherson. Would love to send it to anyone who might be able to tell me. He is a very distinguished man. Fanny hid where she was born and the year as in the 1881; 1891 & 1901 Census she is a different age and born in a different place each time. I have a possible Fanny Adams in 1871 census and she would have been born in 1845. Fanny named her son Charles MacPherson Britten. When Fanny's daughter had a son she named him Donald MacPherson Pithouse. This tells me that Fanny knew who her real father was by naming her son with a middle name of MacPherson then the daughter carried it on. I do hope that this connects with someone and I can finally find my MacPherson connection. My grandmother always told me I had Scottish in me. I do have the dress tartan kilt (blue one). I love it. Diane Potter Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada

Ellen Murray wrote: > Jon this seems to be a sign of the times & economics...very sad. An alternative method is being examined which won't involve anyone having to fill in forms or avoid doing so. It would probably mean a more accurate head count but may be only that, no names, etc. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10584385.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10516437.stm > Have you heard any rumblings about NOT releasing the 1921 Census? The 1921 census is still due to be released in January 2022. If I hear anything, I'll let you know. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On the London Lives website I found a record dated 1818 relating to an ancestor - Westminster Ratebooks: Property values of Westminster Electors. The record gives the 'rack rental value' (£15) of his address in Stafford Place. My question - does the fact that he appears as a Westminster Elector imply anything about his social status? Or were all male residents of Westminster described as Electors? Does the record imply that he owned the property, or may he simply have been renting it? _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5

There's a picture of The Volunteer here http://www.flickr.com/photos/55935853@N00/2863027025 Anne

Hi Marcia, You can find out about Thomas'police service (i.e if he joined as EARLE or HOWELL) if you go to http://www.policeorders.co.uk/, use their search engine and email them. The 1851 census surname could just be an enumerator's error. Glad you have it sorted :) Anne Marcia Earl wrote: > Hello Listers, > > Very good news I have for those who helped me with the GEORGE EARLE family who were winecoopers and wine merchants who had the address 3 Great St. Thomas Apostle. There is a George Earle burial record 29 Sep 1836 in St Thomas Southwark who's abode was St Thomas Apostle Hospital. He died at the age of 36. I think this was the father of THOMAS HOWELL EARLE baptized at St Michael Queenhithe on 25 Mar 1832. Thomas's mother was Eliza.

>From BBC Ceefax: National Census Could Be Scrapped The National Census due to take place in 2011 could be the last of its kind. The BBC understands that the government is examining other ways of measuring population and other statistics than the survey of all homes every 10 years. In future, data could be gathered from records held by the Post Office, local government and credit checking agencies - thought to be more effective. The government said it was "examining" whether changes could be made but no decision has been reached.

Sorry for that faux pas Jon, was thinking your release times are same as ours, 92 yrs... Ellen

As long as there are still records that will be accessible to us in the future if it is more accurate and more likely to include everyone all the better. > From: jons.family.tree@hotmail.co.uk > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:24:11 +0100 > Subject: [MDX] 2011 Census - the last one? > > >From BBC Ceefax: > > National Census Could Be Scrapped > > The National Census due to take place in 2011 could be the last of its kind. > > The BBC understands that the government is examining other ways of measuring > population and other statistics than the survey of all homes every 10 years. > > In future, data could be gathered from records held by the Post Office, > local government and credit checking agencies - thought to be more > effective. > > The government said it was "examining" whether changes could be made but no > decision has been reached. > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388