I have recently been made aware that the LDS has films of the alphabetical indices to these registers. Has anyone used them? If so, what information is on them? I know that once you find something on the index, the actual deeds are at the London Metropolitan Archives. Or....if by some miracle anyone is going to the LMA and has some spare time to look at the index while there to see if there are any VASPER/VOSPER/VESPERs mentioned in the early years, especially around the area of Shoe Lane, I would be eternally grateful. (I am very happy to order the films, but they take so long, and once I find a possible new resource my impatience creeps in!) If anything is found on the index, I am happy to pay for a professional researcher to look at the deeds. Thank you Jan South Australia

Hi all First, I have to thank Caroline Bradford for alerting me to the fact that many Greater London/Middlesex digitized parish marriages and parish baptisms are now on Ancestry.com which I am fortunately able to access through my State Library of Victoria - marvellous institution even if I have been critical of its admin at times. So, over the past week I have been deliriously researching my BENNETT branch children and grand-children and have managed quite a considerable number of church marriages and baptisms, particularly in the Fulham, Chelsea and Battersea areas. Although I have come a long way since 1994 with my Bennett peripheral families using census data, microfilms from LDS, FindMyPast, FreeBMD etc., these original parish records now available on Ancestry have given me a wondrous opportunity, which otherwise I would have had to fork out probably around $350 valuable Aus dollars ordering certificates through the GRO which, considering finances I would not have done - at least not within a few years anyway. So, knowing how this all works here is a list of new family names associated through marriages with my Bennett family for anyone to check and perhaps ask for more information. All 1850s to 1919. ANGEL Surrey/Greater London & Camden BERRY St. Pancras & South Kensington BRUMAGE Battersea CHAPPLE Fulham CLARKE Clapham CROCKER St. Marylebone & Waterloo/Battersea HOLLAND KITE Hertfordshire LANKSFORD Camberwell MAGUIRE Clapham MILTON Ickenham & Waterloo/Battersea PERRY St. Pancras & Chelsea PETHER Battersea SEARLE Camberwell Astonishing, is it not, that all of this can be done within days yet in the past it took many slow years of research! As long as one has verified it! Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

A new website launched today by The National Archives (TNA) aims to give clear, fast, and easy access to legislation, from Magna Carta through to the latest statutes. At www.legislation.gov.uk there are details of everything on the statute book, in one place, and free of charge. A quick play about with the search engine on the site suggests it to be very easy to use. A very simple search term such as "marriage" or "birth" seems to work efficiently. I haven't yet played with the Advanced Search facility. Could be very useful to determine the law that applied at a particular date, in relation to family events. Ann Middx Admin

Well said, Bev. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: <user917826@aol.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. >I think that there is a balance. With all the Internet information out > there, there are bound to be people who misuse information. It is > ultimately their loss and loss to their families, who may rely on their > work later on. Many sites, even those well respected ones, contain > errors. There is a terrific site that focuses on records here in the > States. The fellows who have put it together are admirable for the > detail that is included. Unfortunately, there are errors. The hosts of > the site are VERY slow to correct them even when proper documentation > is provided. They have, however, contributed to an enormous amount of > available information for the descendants of that area. It is up to the > responsible researcher to double check any information that seems to > relate. > > I have had the good fortune to share information with some dedicated > researchers. While I have paid for some of it, generous distant cousins > have provided a great deal. I believe in the spirit of sharing > genealogical information, especially information that is in the public > record. I am willing to risk sharing my information with a possible > relative on "good faith". Many times there are small rewards, if not > huge ones. > > Bev W > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Phillips <denscanis@yahoo.co.uk> > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 6:10 am > Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. > > > The moral of the story being: be very careful who you give your > information to. > You have spent money and huge amounts of (unpaid) time on your > research. Why > give it away? Cost your time in at even £10 an hour and you will be > amazed at > how many thousands of pounds you are prepared to give away to a > complete > stranger. If they asked you for a loan, you wouldn't entertain it. > Terrible to > be this cynical, but it works for me! > > John > > --- On Wed, 28/7/10, Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> wrote: > > > From: Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 28 July, 2010, 11:06 > > > Hi, > > I agree with the comments about people just accepting information. I > let > somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree > even > though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any > relationship > to theirs. > > Best wishes > > Sue > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > the message > > > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > the message > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:47:17 +0100 "Peter J. Richardson" <pjrich.ntl@googlemail.com> wrote: Hello Peter, > Other registration districts will not even provide a certificate and > just tell to apply through the GRO. They can be forced, as Charani said. It *is* part of their job to supply certs, after all. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" We don't give a damn One Chord Wonders - The Adverts

On 28 July 2010 09:35, JFHH <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: > Hello Charani > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" >SNIP<> >> One day I'll make an appt and go through the registers myself, which >> is possible just to find out. >> > -- > Charani (UK) > > Thank you for your interesting and informative post. You raise the matter of what is known as a > "General Search" at the local Register Office. I wonder  if anyone on the list has experience of > actually successfully making such a search, which they would be prepared to share with the list? I > know the matter was raised on the lists some time ago, perhaps at the time of the proposals for > modernising the civil registration process, but I do not recall anyone describing such a search in > practice as opposed to the theory outlined in the existing legislation. I think it depends very much on the registration district. Birmingham Borough Council for example offer "general searches" - I have just applied for a couple so in a few days will perhaps be able to tell you how they went. Other registration districts will not even provide a certificate and just tell to apply through the GRO. Regards Peter

Sue wrote: > Hi, > > I agree with the comments about people just accepting information. I let > somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree even > though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any relationship > to theirs. It goes the other way as well, sadly. I found someone on Ancestry who had a definite connection to one of my families. She had information that I didn't but there were no sources so I couldn't verify the data. She'd gone back about three generations further than I had. I had information she didn't. I wanted to exchange mails with her so we could work together but she took her tree down and now, after a couple mails, won't answer any more :(( I can only suppose she thinks I'm going to "steal" her family and attach it to mine despite there really being a connection which I can back up with certificates and census data. Nothing gets added to my tree without source information - even if I forget to note that source in my genealogical program!! <G> -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:47:36 +0100 Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Charani, > The fact that that proves they *can* do it is what makes me cross. > Since they knew they *could* help but were, essentially, being lazy, > they should have done so in the first place and prevented a lot of > unnecessary ill feeling and antagonism. My feelings exactly. > It just takes a phone call to the GRO in Southport to explain what's > happened and they get the "appropriate person" to make a call to the > register office explaining their duties and responsibilities. The GRO Duly noted for future reference. > call back with the name of the person to ask for at said register > office. Even better! :-) > > I knew you'd had issues with one of the London offices, but couldn't > > remember which one. > It's in GenBrit - about 4 years ago I think, maybe longer. I've been > asleep since then :-)) I've been dozing there myself. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" If you ain't sticking your knives in me, you will be eventually Monsoon - Robbie Williams

Hi John, Your quite right and I have learnt my lesson. What I get cross about is the fact that it can mislead other people into thinking that the tree is right. I have been led on wild goose chases throughout my history research because some people have just believed what somebody else has said. Thanks Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Phillips" <denscanis@yahoo.co.uk> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. The moral of the story being: be very careful who you give your information to. You have spent money and huge amounts of (unpaid) time on your research. Why give it away? Cost your time in at even £10 an hour and you will be amazed at how many thousands of pounds you are prepared to give away to a complete stranger. If they asked you for a loan, you wouldn't entertain it. Terrible to be this cynical, but it works for me! John --- On Wed, 28/7/10, Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> wrote: From: Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 28 July, 2010, 11:06 Hi, I agree with the comments about people just accepting information. I let somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree even though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any relationship to theirs. Best wishes Sue ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Why would anyone want to pay up to 600% more by ordering a GRO certificate from any one other than the GRO itself? Certificate references are available from the images at FreeBMD, Ancestry and also other places on microfiche. Be aware that transcribed reference may be incorrect, as FreeBMD advises. GRO no longer offers the checking service, alas. For the GRO See http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ where a secure site is available for paying using credit and debit cards. Be aware that these two, and other companies, offer the same items but at vastly increased prices. www.Bmd-Certificates.co.uk www.VitalCertificates.co.uk/Births Keith Wellington, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Chapman" <anne@chapman.id.au> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect > Hi Chris, > I have found that by ordering UK Certificates through Transcription > Agents, like Marilyn Rowan or Joy Murrin, on line, there is a section at > the bottom of the order where you can put extra information, ie other > possible index entries or ages, parents, spouse. Then if the details do > not match, there is a reduced fee. This can also apply to NSW > Certificates, although our birth Indexes do have parents names and the > death Indexes have them if known by the informant. Anne > . > Chris & George Jamieson wrote: >> Hi Charani, re your comment below in reply to Janice, about contacting >> GRO >> first before ordering a cert you're not sure is the correct one, have you >> had success doing it this way? Do you mean you give them the 2 or 3 >> *possible* references and they will help you find the correct one to then >> order? >> >> Cheers >> Chris, Sydney >> >> > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I agree with the comments about people just accepting information. I let somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree even though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any relationship to theirs. Best wishes Sue

The moral of the story being: be very careful who you give your information to. You have spent money and huge amounts of (unpaid) time on your research. Why give it away? Cost your time in at even £10 an hour and you will be amazed at how many thousands of pounds you are prepared to give away to a complete stranger. If they asked you for a loan, you wouldn't entertain it. Terrible to be this cynical, but it works for me!   John --- On Wed, 28/7/10, Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> wrote: From: Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 28 July, 2010, 11:06 Hi, I agree with the comments about people just accepting information.   I let somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree even though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any relationship to theirs. Best wishes Sue ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Charani ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" >SNIP<> > One day I'll make an appt and go through the registers myself, which > is possible just to find out. > > -- > Charani (UK) Thank you for your interesting and informative post. You raise the matter of what is known as a "General Search" at the local Register Office. I wonder if anyone on the list has experience of actually successfully making such a search, which they would be prepared to share with the list? I know the matter was raised on the lists some time ago, perhaps at the time of the proposals for modernising the civil registration process, but I do not recall anyone describing such a search in practice as opposed to the theory outlined in the existing legislation. Regards John Henley

Hi Chris, I have found that by ordering UK Certificates through Transcription Agents, like Marilyn Rowan or Joy Murrin, on line, there is a section at the bottom of the order where you can put extra information, ie other possible index entries or ages, parents, spouse. Then if the details do not match, there is a reduced fee. This can also apply to NSW Certificates, although our birth Indexes do have parents names and the death Indexes have them if known by the informant. Anne . Chris & George Jamieson wrote: > Hi Charani, re your comment below in reply to Janice, about contacting GRO > first before ordering a cert you're not sure is the correct one, have you > had success doing it this way? Do you mean you give them the 2 or 3 > *possible* references and they will help you find the correct one to then > order? > > Cheers > Chris, Sydney > >

Hi Charani, re your comment below in reply to Janice, about contacting GRO first before ordering a cert you're not sure is the correct one, have you had success doing it this way? Do you mean you give them the 2 or 3 *possible* references and they will help you find the correct one to then order? Cheers Chris, Sydney Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:37:59 +0100 From: Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect But sometimes with common names like Smith I have had to order a certificate > on gut feeling which is not always the correct one so have had a few > certificates that have been wrong I think the way the GRO does it now it > even worst as before you could say father's name or something & if it > didn't > match up you paid just a smaller amount of the fee & got the rest returned > now it just send it out right or wrong The way to check is to mail them first (putting GQ before the subject) or to contact the relevant register office.

Hear! Hear! to your comments about people not changing their trees. I have tried to get one lot to change their tree when they have a boy of 6 marrying. Alarm bells should have been ringing. Anne John Phillips wrote: > An even bigger danger is when someone else thinks they are part of your family, and because they are so uncritical, and blithely accept whetever they think they've found, that they even refuse to alter the misinformation in the public domain when the correct version is pointed out to them. I had this problem with my Urmson family in Cheshire which was hijacked by someone in America, so if anyone is connected to Cheshire Urmsons, or Lancashire Oldhams, you have been warned. What is out there is incorrect! > > Regards > > John > >

That has happened on both Genes Reunited and Ancestry.com with my families. A relative has added my family with lovely photographs (supplied by me) to her Ancestry tree and has given a number of others permission to add data to the tree. Names have been added from the UK census, with English birthplaces when there is evidence that the family remained in NSW and the children born here. Also, they have added the earliest ancestor as William HUTCHINSON, born in Glasgow when there is some evidence, although it is far from conclusive, that the forebears actually came from Jamaica. Despite my efforts to be diplomatic in showing that this is possibly stopping further research being undertaken on that line, the details remain unchanged on that tree. Both sites have been fabulous sources of information, all in all though, so I can't complain too much. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Borrill" <maria.borrill@ntlworld.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [MDX] mixing trees >I echo Mary's sentiments about poached ancestors they turn up on many other > sites too, someone has copied great chunks of my KENDALL tree on Ancestry, > the only problem is my KENDALL relative he has linked his tree too, died > young never married nor had children. Whilst he has copied her death and > burial information into his relatives and then added all my KENDALL > ancestors, his managed to give birth after her death and appear on two > subsequent census returns!! > > Another good way of finding living relatives is Facebook. > > Maria > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I think that there is a balance. With all the Internet information out there, there are bound to be people who misuse information. It is ultimately their loss and loss to their families, who may rely on their work later on. Many sites, even those well respected ones, contain errors. There is a terrific site that focuses on records here in the States. The fellows who have put it together are admirable for the detail that is included. Unfortunately, there are errors. The hosts of the site are VERY slow to correct them even when proper documentation is provided. They have, however, contributed to an enormous amount of available information for the descendants of that area. It is up to the responsible researcher to double check any information that seems to relate. I have had the good fortune to share information with some dedicated researchers. While I have paid for some of it, generous distant cousins have provided a great deal. I believe in the spirit of sharing genealogical information, especially information that is in the public record. I am willing to risk sharing my information with a possible relative on "good faith". Many times there are small rewards, if not huge ones. Bev W -----Original Message----- From: John Phillips <denscanis@yahoo.co.uk> To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 6:10 am Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. The moral of the story being: be very careful who you give your information to. You have spent money and huge amounts of (unpaid) time on your research. Why give it away? Cost your time in at even £10 an hour and you will be amazed at how many thousands of pounds you are prepared to give away to a complete stranger. If they asked you for a loan, you wouldn't entertain it. Terrible to be this cynical, but it works for me!   John --- On Wed, 28/7/10, Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> wrote: From: Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [MDX] Warning: Finding that research is incorrect. To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 28 July, 2010, 11:06 Hi, I agree with the comments about people just accepting information.   I let somebody view my tree on Genes and they just attached it to their tree even though when I looked at their tree there did not seem to be any relationship to theirs. Best wishes Sue ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is just a gentle reminder that Rootsweb does not allow messages that give information about commercial activities (excluding FHSs etc registered as not for profit charities). Please therefore avoid mentioning specific names and details of professional researchers and professional agents who charge a fee for their services - such as those mentioned in the thread about obtaining certificates. I feel sure that in this instance nobody here set out to intentionally advertise and that this was simply a case of trying to help others to avoid paying too much. However by naming agents who can obtain certificates for a fee, and their charges, this, by default, falls into the category of commercial advertising. As already mentioned by a number of Listers, the least costly way to obtain copy certificates is direct from the GRO in the UK, where the basic cost is £9.25 per certificate, inclusive of handling and postage. The GRO (now part of the UK's Identity and Passport Service) provide an excellent service to all parts of the world. The rules changed when the cost of copy certificates was increased earlier in the year. If you specify criteria such as, for example, a Father's name, where no match is found the GRO will now return your full payment (whereas previously part was retained). They will also make a search one year either side of an estimated year for an event at no extra charge. Ann Middx Admin

Just to thank all those who helped me with this problem and advise that I am unsubscribing for a fortnight due to holidays. I'll re-subscribe as soon as I get back. Regards John