Hello Carolyn, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn McCartney" <carolyn.mccartney@btinternet.com> > Firstly, am I correct in thinking that the Middlesex list covers > Westminster? I am not sure if there is a different one I should be using for > this area of London. > I am hoping someone might be able to help me find JONATHAN CARTER or > TATTERSALLS YARD in the 1861 census? Parts of the 1861 census for Belgravia (which fell in St.Geo Hanover Square Civil Parish) sadly have not survived. There are detailed lists of whatr's missing available, but it sounds as if Tatersalls Yard may be on of the locations for which the EBs are missing. Regards John Henley >Jonathan was b 1802 in Peckleton, > Leicestershire. He married Ann Benbow (or Bembow) who was from Stony > Stratford, Bucks in possibly abt 1824 (marriage not yet found). Their first > 3 children, Ann, Sarah (who I think must have died young) and Thomas were > born in Mancetter, Warwickshire and their last 3 Henry George (known as > Harry), Sarah and Frederick were born in Witherley Village, Leics. All the > men except Frederick were all involved with horses in one way or another and > Thomas & Henry moved to Chantilly. Jonathan worked for Tattersalls (the > horse dealers) in London for many years so if, as I presume, he has been > mis-transcribed, I could find Tattersalls in the census records I may well > be able to find him. I have tried going through the Enumerators walk but > couldn't find it. I don't know the area and am not sure if the St George > Hanover Square then is the same as the Hanover Square near Oxford St in > London now. I don't think it can be as Tattersalls was originally at Hyde > Park Corner and moved to Knightsbridge in 1865. > In 1841 he is in Witherley Village, Warwickshire with his young family. > In 1851 he is in Tattersalls Yard, St Georges Hanover Square, Westminster as > Superintendent and married to Ann still > 1n 1861 I cannot find him or Ann. Thomas b 1830 is a trainer in France. > Harry b 1832 is also not found but in 1863, he is living in Lawn Cottage, > Sudbury on Thames with his wife and young family and by 1870 he was in > France as Head stableman. He died on 24th May 1870, Chantilly. Frederick b > 1835, who married Elizabeth Jane (known as Jane) in 1865 & became a Hosier, > is also missing. > 1871 Jonathan is still living at Tattersalls Yard but now widowed. He is now > Manager at Tattersalls. Frederick is with his family at 44 St Georges Place, > Hanover Square > 1881 Jonathan is a visitor at his son's house in 44 St George's Place where > he died between Sep-Dec 1881 >>From an obituary I found for Jonathan, he retired from Tattersalls after 30 > years as Foreman in about 1872. > One of my main reasons for trying to find him in 1871 is to try to pinpoint > his wife's death date and to see whether his other girls are with him. Maybe > he went over to France for a while too but if I can find Tattersalls and he > is not there then I shall know. > Sorry for this being so long but I wanted to give as clear a picture as > possible to make sure no one went to the trouble of duplicating information > I have already found. > Carolyn

Hello Carolyn Yes, you have the correct List. Westminster is a parish in the ancient County of Middlesex. It may be useful (and for other folk too) to have a note of this page where the Middlesex parishes are detailed: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bpefisk/fh/Middx/index.html Ann Middlesex Admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn McCartney" <carolyn.mccartney@btinternet.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:52 AM Subject: [MDX] Jonathan CARTER 1861 census / TATTERSALL's > Firstly, am I correct in thinking that the Middlesex list covers > Westminster? I am not sure if there is a different one I should be using > for > this area of London.

At 12:22 PM 1/08/2010, Graham Price wrote: >Fascinating what little travels we take during these searches. In my >churnings around I found that my George William BENNETT b. 1885 >Kingsland/Haggerston had married Gladys Ada KITE 1919. Gladys was >born Herts 1893, father John Kite b. Dover Kent c. 1843, mother Ada >Sophia b. Islington c. 1853. Marriages show Ada's surname is KITE. >Hmmn, interesting - cousins perhaps? Ada turns out to be the >daughter of William Hatcher Kite and Lucy Sophia EVISON as details >including census show Lucy as a widow living with John & Gladys in >Herts 1901 shown as mother-in-law. Seems to be a little hiccup here. FreeBMD shows Ada Sophia Kite marrying Thomas Wing, June Qtr 1872, Hatfield and she is shown on the 1881 census living with her parents William H Kite & Louisa S Kite at the workhouse, shown as a widow. Back to the diggings! Must go back and check my certificates, census etc. Ahah, but I see, she was a widow when John Kite married her - all's not lost after all! Double check though. Cheers Graham

Fascinating what little travels we take during these searches. In my churnings around I found that my George William BENNETT b. 1885 Kingsland/Haggerston had married Gladys Ada KITE 1919. Gladys was born Herts 1893, father John Kite b. Dover Kent c. 1843, mother Ada Sophia b. Islington c. 1853. Marriages show Ada's surname is KITE. Hmmn, interesting - cousins perhaps? Ada turns out to be the daughter of William Hatcher Kite and Lucy Sophia EVISON as details including census show Lucy as a widow living with John & Gladys in Herts 1901 shown as mother-in-law. William Hatcher Kite in the 1861 is shown to be a woollen draper & hosier though by 1871 has 'progressed' to the Master of the Hatfield Workhouse, Herts where Lucy and 18 year old Ada Sophia obviously meet the local doctor John Kite. Romance! This is only a little side feast to my Bennett research, but certainly is fascinating. More to be done on this family. Anyone with Kite relatives? Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

Anne Chambers wrote: > Mother's surname only came in after 1912 - no matter where you > search ;) As I understand it, the stalled DoVE project hasn't been totally abandoned. The IPS are in talks but I haven't heard what the latest situation is. Maybe, just maybe, we'll get lucky yet. The intention of putting the post-2005/6 BMDs online is also still in the pipeline. > And FreeBMD, which is catching up fast, will always be cheaper than > either Ancestry or FMP. FreeBMD is an excellent price, very affordable ;)) They're up to about 1935 now but will only go as far as 1983 when the GRO indices were digitised. It's a shame they won't go any further. Their search engine is a lot more flexible than any of the others. It would also make sense if the IPS allowed them to continue up to the most recent one (abt 9 months ago) since they are free and that's the criteria for the IPS putting them online. They wouldn't have to worry about the cost and maintenance of a website. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

PS I have just found out that Tattersall's was at 10 Grosvenor Place, entered by a narrow Lane, at the side of St. George's Hospital. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn McCartney [mailto:carolyn.mccartney@btinternet.com] Sent: 01 August 2010 10:53 To: 'middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com' Subject: Jonathan CARTER 1861 census / TATTERSALL's Firstly, am I correct in thinking that the Middlesex list covers Westminster? I am not sure if there is a different one I should be using for this area of London. I am hoping someone might be able to help me find JONATHAN CARTER or TATTERSALLS YARD in the 1861 census? Jonathan was b 1802 in Peckleton, Leicestershire. He married Ann Benbow (or Bembow) who was from Stony Stratford, Bucks in possibly abt 1824 (marriage not yet found). Their first 3 children, Ann, Sarah (who I think must have died young) and Thomas were born in Mancetter, Warwickshire and their last 3 Henry George (known as Harry), Sarah and Frederick were born in Witherley Village, Leics. All the men except Frederick were all involved with horses in one way or another and Thomas & Henry moved to Chantilly. Jonathan worked for Tattersalls (the horse dealers) in London for many years so if, as I presume, he has been mis-transcribed, I could find Tattersalls in the census records I may well be able to find him. I have tried going through the Enumerators walk but couldn't find it. I don't know the area and am not sure if the St George Hanover Square then is the same as the Hanover Square near Oxford St in London now. I don't think it can be as Tattersalls was originally at Hyde Park Corner and moved to Knightsbridge in 1865. In 1841 he is in Witherley Village, Warwickshire with his young family. In 1851 he is in Tattersalls Yard, St Georges Hanover Square, Westminster as Superintendent and married to Ann still 1n 1861 I cannot find him or Ann. Thomas b 1830 is a trainer in France. Harry b 1832 is also not found but in 1863, he is living in Lawn Cottage, Sudbury on Thames with his wife and young family and by 1870 he was in France as Head stableman. He died on 24th May 1870, Chantilly. Frederick b 1835, who married Elizabeth Jane (known as Jane) in 1865 & became a Hosier, is also missing. 1871 Jonathan is still living at Tattersalls Yard but now widowed. He is now Manager at Tattersalls. Frederick is with his family at 44 St Georges Place, Hanover Square 1881 Jonathan is a visitor at his son's house in 44 St George's Place where he died between Sep-Dec 1881 >From an obituary I found for Jonathan, he retired from Tattersalls after 30 years as Foreman in about 1872. One of my main reasons for trying to find him in 1871 is to try to pinpoint his wife's death date and to see whether his other girls are with him. Maybe he went over to France for a while too but if I can find Tattersalls and he is not there then I shall know. Sorry for this being so long but I wanted to give as clear a picture as possible to make sure no one went to the trouble of duplicating information I have already found. Carolyn

Firstly, am I correct in thinking that the Middlesex list covers Westminster? I am not sure if there is a different one I should be using for this area of London. I am hoping someone might be able to help me find JONATHAN CARTER or TATTERSALLS YARD in the 1861 census? Jonathan was b 1802 in Peckleton, Leicestershire. He married Ann Benbow (or Bembow) who was from Stony Stratford, Bucks in possibly abt 1824 (marriage not yet found). Their first 3 children, Ann, Sarah (who I think must have died young) and Thomas were born in Mancetter, Warwickshire and their last 3 Henry George (known as Harry), Sarah and Frederick were born in Witherley Village, Leics. All the men except Frederick were all involved with horses in one way or another and Thomas & Henry moved to Chantilly. Jonathan worked for Tattersalls (the horse dealers) in London for many years so if, as I presume, he has been mis-transcribed, I could find Tattersalls in the census records I may well be able to find him. I have tried going through the Enumerators walk but couldn't find it. I don't know the area and am not sure if the St George Hanover Square then is the same as the Hanover Square near Oxford St in London now. I don't think it can be as Tattersalls was originally at Hyde Park Corner and moved to Knightsbridge in 1865. In 1841 he is in Witherley Village, Warwickshire with his young family. In 1851 he is in Tattersalls Yard, St Georges Hanover Square, Westminster as Superintendent and married to Ann still 1n 1861 I cannot find him or Ann. Thomas b 1830 is a trainer in France. Harry b 1832 is also not found but in 1863, he is living in Lawn Cottage, Sudbury on Thames with his wife and young family and by 1870 he was in France as Head stableman. He died on 24th May 1870, Chantilly. Frederick b 1835, who married Elizabeth Jane (known as Jane) in 1865 & became a Hosier, is also missing. 1871 Jonathan is still living at Tattersalls Yard but now widowed. He is now Manager at Tattersalls. Frederick is with his family at 44 St Georges Place, Hanover Square 1881 Jonathan is a visitor at his son's house in 44 St George's Place where he died between Sep-Dec 1881 >From an obituary I found for Jonathan, he retired from Tattersalls after 30 years as Foreman in about 1872. One of my main reasons for trying to find him in 1871 is to try to pinpoint his wife's death date and to see whether his other girls are with him. Maybe he went over to France for a while too but if I can find Tattersalls and he is not there then I shall know. Sorry for this being so long but I wanted to give as clear a picture as possible to make sure no one went to the trouble of duplicating information I have already found. Carolyn

Thank you all for your replies to my question, sad to say in spite of your help still not found a definate clue to these people. I have all the info of the wife who married the first two, husbands  #2 and #3, her dau's marr. the last three and I know that one is buried in a castle in France.   Everything is a blank after they all marry.   Toni  --- On Sat, 31/7/10, Toni Evans <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> wrote: From: Toni Evans <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [MDX] Who are these people To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, 31 July, 2010, 5:06 PM Ancestry,Google, Familysearch.org and anything I can think off ... ggrrrr!! Toni -------------------------------------------------- > Where have you looked already ? > > Anne > South Australia > > Toni Evans wrote: >> Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something >> about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? >>

What a fantastic story, this is the reason this hobby has taken over my life ! Thanks for sharing your story. Regards, Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Jerkins" <bushnook@optusnet.com.au> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 2:41 AM Subject: [MDX] I have collated wrong info,muddled info up and only regret a little bit! >If you have time and are interested this is my tale: It might help others > tracking Alias surnames! > > I began in 1998, without a smidgen of info, to trace my Jerkins ancestry. > 6 > weeks later I had determined the origins were not USA and had found the > brick wall which I stared at for 18 months. Reluctantly, I purchased my > ggrandfather's marriage cert and traced the names of the witnesses (a > fabulous way to go sideways if you have not thought of it.)

Ancestry,Google, Familysearch.org and anything I can think off ... ggrrrr!! Toni -------------------------------------------------- From: "Anne Chambers" <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:38 PM To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MDX] Who are these people > Where have you looked already ? > > Anne > South Australia > > Toni Evans wrote: >> Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something >> about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? >>

There's http://www.geneanet.org/ and http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0 soc.genealogy.french (access through Google Groups if you don't have a news server) might be able to help. There also seems to be something about Laura Crossley in the French Archives, according to Google books > Archives nationales (France), Geneviève Le Moël - 1993 - 345 pages > Dossier concernant Laura Crossley, comtesse de Clare, condamnée pour escroquerie. There might be a mention of her husband there if you can track it down http://books.google.com/books?id=QvsZAAAAYAAJ&q="laura+crossley"&dq="laura+crossley"&hl=en&ei=CshTTNXJMoilcdiv0L8M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=51&ved=0CPQBEOgBMDI Anne South Australia Toni Evans wrote: > Ancestry,Google, Familysearch.org and anything I can think off ... ggrrrr!! > Toni > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Anne Chambers"<anne.chambers@bigpond.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:38 PM > To:<middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Who are these people > >> Where have you looked already ? >> >> Anne >> South Australia >> >> Toni Evans wrote: >>> Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something >>> about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? >>>

Just sent you something.. Jenelle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toni Evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] Who are these people > Ancestry,Google, Familysearch.org and anything I can think off ... > ggrrrr!! > Toni > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Anne Chambers" <anne.chambers@bigpond.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:38 PM > To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Who are these people > >> Where have you looked already ? >> >> Anne >> South Australia >> >> Toni Evans wrote: >>> Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something >>> about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? >>> > > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Toni, have you just tried a google on these people or on other search engines like Ask Jeeves, Wombat (Australia), Alta Vista.... Jenelle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toni Evans" <toni.evans@xtra.co.nz> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 2:26 PM Subject: [MDX] Who are these people Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? Raymond Celice D'ARGER marr. 1914 London Stanislas Emmanuel Alexandre M THIBAULT marr. 1930 Monaco d. 1941 Both born bef 1863 Paul Joseph Gabriel GRENET-PARAGOT marr. 1924 Cote D'or George Guillame Emile FRICK born 1899 Paris d. 1921 Fontenbleau Andre Amadee Jules DIONE marr Paris 1925 d. 1983 All born before 1890 Toni ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Toni Evans wrote: > Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? > > Raymond Celice D'ARGER marr. 1914 London There's something on his wife here http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9505E4DD1430E233A25753C2A9649C946196D6CF Have you got their marriage certificate ? Anne South Australia

Where have you looked already ? Anne South Australia Toni Evans wrote: > Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ?? > > Raymond Celice D'ARGER marr. 1914 London > Stanislas Emmanuel Alexandre M THIBAULT marr. 1930 Monaco d. 1941 > Both born bef 1863 > > Paul Joseph Gabriel GRENET-PARAGOT marr. 1924 Cote D'or > George Guillame Emile FRICK born 1899 Paris d. 1921 Fontenbleau > Andre Amadee Jules DIONE marr Paris 1925 d. 1983 > > All born before 1890 > > > Toni

Hi Judy A fabulous trip through history, archives, etc. which obviously you have benefited from in many ways. One of my hiccups was in looking for my gg-grandfather's (William Bennett) bride Eliza Mary Marks' family. She was born c.1802 county of MDX, even though the marriage was at Newington, SRY. I was reasonably convinced that I had found her parents and siblings at Marylebone, either carriage makers or builders (William Bennett was a builder) as there was one Eliza Mary Marks being baptised at St. Mary Marylebone 05 May 1802. Imagine my surprise when that particular Eliza Mary Marks turned up some years later in 1847 (long after the wedding in Newington in 1826 and the death of my Eliza Mary in 1843) as a spinster and executrice of her younger brother's Will! Surprise! Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

morning List I have read with interest most of the comments re incorrect information and muddled trees but still think my story is worth telling. In my case, the muddling of information and the wrong paths my projects took makes what I have today much more interesting. Although most of the information I have gathered has turned out to be not relevant to my actual family, I am grateful for the exercise. If you have time and are interested this is my tale: It might help others tracking Alias surnames! I began in 1998, without a smidgen of info, to trace my Jerkins ancestry. 6 weeks later I had determined the origins were not USA and had found the brick wall which I stared at for 18 months. Reluctantly, I purchased my ggrandfather's marriage cert and traced the names of the witnesses (a fabulous way to go sideways if you have not thought of it.) My ggrandfather's middle name was Courtoy, most unusual..... and there was another Courtoy connection too among the witnesses.... so off I went tracing the Courtoy story, trying to identify my family's connection. I found that my grandfather's father was named as William Jerkins on records, but that he lived as William Courtoy. Why? I went off searching (for the next 20 years) to discover conspiracies, enormous fortunes, intrigues and the most amazing tales my fertile imagination could never have imagined. I used every resource available, online mailing lists, libraries, archives, purchased documents, found living people etc etc etc. Eventually I determined that my William Jerkins was probably a William Courtoy living in hiding; but was he William b 1777 or William b 1817? Census documents said he could have been either, but the younger man supposedly died on Typhus in 1838... so I had to consider what I called the empty coffin scenario. No proof, but gee wizz it all fitted perfectly, especially as I had taken the Courtoy family back to a villiage in France 1614 and learnt that the original surname was not Courtoy, but Jacquinet - which was phonetically the same as Jerkins. Oh yes, I was convinced. Not happy, but ....... I was satisfied I had it right. I even wrote the family story up, Invisible Threads was huge; I circulated it to as many as I could, even organised a mini family reunion in Adelaide, and then, just before I packed up the room and returned to the living, a Courtoy cousin in London found a bombshell. The Tasmanian Archives had digitised their records, among which he found William Jerkins, a convict who is not recorded on my convicts cd. William Jerkins went to Tasmania at the right time, he then went to Sth Aus at the right time. Reluctantly I had to concede I was intrigued. William Jerkins the convict is definately mine; he lived from the death of his defacto wife 1851 until his death 1887 as the name of her deceased brother in law - the younger William Courtoy. When he died he was registered as Courtois (Courtoy) and when he was buried it was as Coulter but the ages given at all times fit exactly with him being William Jerkins the convict. Without knowing as much as I did, I may well have missed him, or worse, the irony of it all. By going down the wrong path I learnt to think way outside the square. I uncovered the most amazing trails; I traced 9 of the 10 Courtoy children born 1806-1826 in London, all the way to the living descendants of most lines and made the most wonderful friendships. I learnt a lot about the East India Co, the records that still exist and I even researched some of the wealthiest families in England including the Earl St Vincents, as well as Jewish and French trading families who were involved in coral, coffee and diamonds. I learnt about the plight of the box makers living in poverty in London, a Combe family who were members of the coast guard, but who probably originated as brewers in Scotland. I traced families in Georgia USA, which of course introduced me to the early settlements in and around Sylvester Worth Co. Now that I actually know where my Jerkins man originated (Marylebone, Middlesex London) I am back staring at the same brickwall I met in 1999. This time however I am determined to pay for a researcher when I find what I want to extract ('if I find it' is more like it at the moment). My fingers are crossed that given time and records I may actually link the Jacquinet family of Jussey France whose descendant lived as John Courtoy in Middlesex 1750-1818 to my Jerkins family of the same area of London but I am not holding my breath. Part of my research has been the answers but the majority of it has been the puzzles and the amazing outcomes from what began as simple questions. I know I will get the truth eventually but I am no longer in a rush. I need more information to become available and if I have learnt anything it is that patience is our greatest tool. The internet and online information has improved enormously in 20 years, I envy those who will benefit from these advances in technology (and thank those who contribute it). I have been overwhelmed by the kindness of strangers internationally and continue to be intrigued by the differences we each have in our heritage. My advice is 'if you go down the wrong path, pick up some of the info, perhaps it may actually fit in, eventually.' cheers Judy researching Jerkins family - plasterers and painters of Mddx, but who has also has a lot of info on the Courtoy / Jacquinet family of Jussey, Haute Saone, England, USA and Australia and is happy to share. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 985 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi Sheila Have you tried death duties? http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107 And http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=245 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I have a copy of my ancestors will dated 1843 and proved 23 April 1844. > Everything went to his wife for her life time,then the children.My GGG > Grandmother died > in1865 without leaving a will. Is it possible to find out what the Estate > was worth in 1844 or 1865. > my GGG grandfather left a business and two cottages. > > Regards > Happy researching > Sheila > NSW

I have a copy of my ancestors will dated 1843 and proved 23 April 1844. Everything went to his wife for her life time,then the children.My GGG Grandmother died in1865 without leaving a will. Is it possible to find out what the Estate was worth in 1844 or 1865. my GGG grandfather left a business and two cottages. Regards Happy researching Sheila NSW

Researching outside the square I have been trying to find out something about these people in my tree ....... any ideas ??   Raymond Celice D'ARGER marr.   1914 London Stanislas Emmanuel Alexandre M THIBAULT  marr. 1930 Monaco  d. 1941 Both born bef 1863   Paul Joseph Gabriel GRENET-PARAGOT  marr. 1924 Cote D'or George Guillame Emile FRICK   born 1899 Paris d. 1921 Fontenbleau Andre Amadee Jules DIONE   marr Paris 1925 d. 1983   All born before 1890     Toni