Hi Sue, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Ashton" <suzinmi@gmail.com> > My ignorance of London geography is showing and I'd like to ask for a > bit of advice. > > I'm trying to find the death of my third great grandfather, George > DUNN (born April 1822) a tailor of Aldgate. I don't find the family > in the 1861 census as the Minories are part of the missing section. I > do know from the birth of his two last children (both births are > registered in the East London district - one christened on 18 Feb 1861 > and one christened on 26 Apr 1863) that his address is 8 Vine Street, > Algdate. His widow Elizabeth appears to have stayed in the area as I > find her in the 1871 census at 3 Redgate Court. > > I've searched FreeBMD and found a possible death for George in Jul > 1863 and the district is Whitechapel (this is also before ages were > included so I can't use that to help). My doubts as to this being the > correct George come in because his daughter's birth is registered in > the East London district in the same quarter. Looking at the > sub-districts covered by Whitechapel they include Aldgate and St > Botolph without Aldgate (which is where his daughter is christened ... > or at least that's the church for the christening). > > I don't find any George DUNN deaths between 1861 and 1871 registered > in the East London district. The East London district also covers St > Botolph with Aldgate also which might be why the children were > registered there. > > I check the parish registers for his death and don't find one. I > checked the probate calendar and 1863 is one of the missing years ... > just my luck with this family. ;-) > > So my question ... I would like to order the certificate and want to > make sure my guess seems correct based on the geography knowledge of > someone who is more familiar than I am. > > Thanks for your advice.> > Sue Ashton> Dearborn, MI USA > ************************************** Aldgate lies on the boundary of Middlesex (later London County Council, later still Greater London) and the City, and has (or parts have) possibly switched Registration District in the years that have elapsed since 1837. Clicking on the name of the Registration district at FreeBMD leads you to a full description of the district and its history. That said, East London (IIRC) was the RD for the eastern half of the City (not the area popularly referred to as East London - i.e. the area lying *to* the east *of* the City). If a parish (as, from memory, St.Botolph) lay partly within and partly without the city boundary then each part would fall in a separate registration district. The birth is more likely to have been at home (which may have fallen within the city and thus East London RD) while the parish church served both parts of the parish. The death on the other hand, may well have been in hospital, possibly the Royal London Hospital, (and again from memory) may well have been in Whitechapel RD at this time. Sorry I have not had time to check my memory! There were other hospitals in the Whitechapel RD. One final point - I assume you have checked for DUNNE and DONNE as well as DUNN. Incidentally there was a well known tailors in the last century called DUNNE's - I think with the additional 'E'. Regards John Henley

Thanks John for the information. Clicking on the registration district is what lead me to all this confusion. I have tried as many combinations I can think of including using as many wildcards as the search engine would allow me without telling me it would take too long for the search. At this point, I think I'll plonk down my money and take a chance on the gentleman from 1863. I did not know about the tailors you mention so will spend some time and do some research. This George DUNN appears to be the last of the tailors for his line as his sons and grandsons appear to move into the printing industry, mainly with Hazell, Watson, and Viney. Thanks again for the help. Sue Ashton Dearborn, MI USA On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 7:18 PM, JFHH <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> wrote: > Hi Sue, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Ashton" <suzinmi@gmail.com> >> >> My ignorance of London geography is showing and I'd like to ask for a >> bit of advice. >> > I'm trying to find the death of my third great grandfather, George >> DUNN (born April 1822) a tailor of Aldgate.  I don't find the family >> in the 1861 census as the Minories are part of the missing section.  I >> do know from the birth of his two last children (both births are >> registered in the East London district - one christened on 18 Feb 1861 >> and one christened on 26 Apr 1863) that his address is 8 Vine Street, >> Algdate.  His widow Elizabeth appears to have stayed in the area as I >> find her in the 1871 census at 3 Redgate Court. >> > I've searched FreeBMD and found a possible death for George in Jul >> 1863 and the district is Whitechapel (this is also before ages were >> included so I can't use that to help).  My doubts as to this being the >> correct George come in because his daughter's birth is registered in >> the East London district in the same quarter.  Looking at the >> sub-districts covered by Whitechapel they include Aldgate and St >> Botolph without Aldgate (which is where his daughter is christened ... >> or at least that's the church for the christening). >> > I don't find any George DUNN deaths between 1861 and 1871 registered >> in the East London district. The East London district also covers St >> Botolph with Aldgate also which might be why the children were >> registered there. >> > I check the parish registers for his death and don't find one.  I >> checked the probate calendar and 1863 is one of the missing years ... >> just my luck with this family. ;-) >> > So my question ... I would like to order the certificate and want to >> make sure my guess seems correct based on the geography knowledge of >> someone who is more familiar than I am. >> > Thanks for your advice.> > Sue Ashton> Dearborn, MI  USA >> ************************************** > > Aldgate  lies on the boundary of Middlesex (later London County Council, > later still Greater London) and the City, and has (or parts have) possibly > switched Registration District in the years that have elapsed since 1837. > Clicking on the name of the Registration district at FreeBMD leads you to a > full description of the district and its history. > > That said, East London (IIRC) was the RD for the eastern half of the City > (not the area popularly referred to as East London - i.e. the area lying > *to* the east *of* the City). If a parish (as, from memory, St.Botolph) lay > partly within and partly without the city boundary then each part would fall > in a separate registration district.  The birth is more likely to have been > at home (which may have fallen within the city and thus East London RD) > while the parish church served both parts of the parish. The death on the > other hand, may well have been in hospital, possibly the Royal London > Hospital, (and again from memory) may well have been in Whitechapel RD at > this time. > > Sorry I have not had time to check my memory! There were other hospitals in > the Whitechapel RD. One final point - I assume you have checked for DUNNE > and DONNE as well as DUNN. Incidentally there was a well known tailors in > the last century called DUNNE's - I think with the additional 'E'. > > Regards > John Henley > >

My ignorance of London geography is showing and I'd like to ask for a bit of advice. I'm trying to find the death of my third great grandfather, George DUNN (born April 1822) a tailor of Aldgate. I don't find the family in the 1861 census as the Minories are part of the missing section. I do know from the birth of his two last children (both births are registered in the East London district - one christened on 18 Feb 1861 and one christened on 26 Apr 1863) that his address is 8 Vine Street, Algdate. His widow Elizabeth appears to have stayed in the area as I find her in the 1871 census at 3 Redgate Court. I've searched FreeBMD and found a possible death for George in Jul 1863 and the district is Whitechapel (this is also before ages were included so I can't use that to help). My doubts as to this being the correct George come in because his daughter's birth is registered in the East London district in the same quarter. Looking at the sub-districts covered by Whitechapel they include Aldgate and St Botolph without Aldgate (which is where his daughter is christened ... or at least that's the church for the christening). I don't find any George DUNN deaths between 1861 and 1871 registered in the East London district. The East London district also covers St Botolph with Aldgate also which might be why the children were registered there. I check the parish registers for his death and don't find one. I checked the probate calendar and 1863 is one of the missing years ... just my luck with this family. ;-) So my question ... I would like to order the certificate and want to make sure my guess seems correct based on the geography knowledge of someone who is more familiar than I am. Thanks for your advice. Sue Ashton Dearborn, MI USA

Thank you for your reply with the information. On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:37 AM, Caroline Bradford wrote: > Hi Pat > > The institution in which Patrick and his family are living in 1901 is > enumerated as St Mary's Orphanage, North Hyde, Heston. A google > search will > give you more information about it. > > Hope this helps > > Caroline > > >> Would anyone know the name of a orphanage/home for children in West >> Drayton that took in orphaned children before and after the 1901 >> census? >> I had relatives that once worked and lived with their children and >> worked there . Just wondering what it was called back then and now. Is >> it still open? >> Patrick Carmody was a worker on farm there in 1901. >> Thank you. > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you for your reply. I couldn't remember the name of the place when I asked/posted the question. Since I am in Florida, USA I don't get much info regarding Middlesex, in areas where my family lived, or who to ask for answers. Now wondering if I can get a list of names in Middlesex from phone book to write to see if any relationship, hoping someone of the 11 children had by my great grandparents cousin, have some family info remembered . On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:10 AM, Judy Lester wrote: > That will be St Mary's Orphanage at North Hyde (near Heston). It was a > certified school for Roman Catholic children, used by the poor law > unions. It closed in 1935. I believe some of the buildings survive. > > HTH > > Judy > London, UK > > -----Original Message----- > From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat > Lewis > > Would anyone know the name of a orphanage/home for children in West > Drayton that took in orphaned children before and after the 1901 > census? > I had relatives that once worked and lived with their children and > worked there . Just wondering what it was called back then and now. Is > it still open? > Patrick Carmody was a worker on farm there in 1901. > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Cliff -----Original Message----- The nearest online map to what is require that I now is at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html under Middlesex 1874-94. Maps showing the detail required for earlier period are uncommon and I do not know whether or not they exist for Isleworth. Regards Cliff Webb

Hi Pat The institution in which Patrick and his family are living in 1901 is enumerated as St Mary's Orphanage, North Hyde, Heston. A google search will give you more information about it. Hope this helps Caroline > Would anyone know the name of a orphanage/home for children in West > Drayton that took in orphaned children before and after the 1901 > census? > I had relatives that once worked and lived with their children and > worked there . Just wondering what it was called back then and now. Is > it still open? > Patrick Carmody was a worker on farm there in 1901. > Thank you.

That will be St Mary's Orphanage at North Hyde (near Heston). It was a certified school for Roman Catholic children, used by the poor law unions. It closed in 1935. I believe some of the buildings survive. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat Lewis Would anyone know the name of a orphanage/home for children in West Drayton that took in orphaned children before and after the 1901 census? I had relatives that once worked and lived with their children and worked there . Just wondering what it was called back then and now. Is it still open? Patrick Carmody was a worker on farm there in 1901.

Hi, just started to research my Marchant family living old Nichol street on the 1851 census a GEORGE and ELIZABETH MARCHANT. Anyone who can help please contact m as i live in Malta.Thank you. Keith.

Would anyone know the name of a orphanage/home for children in West Drayton that took in orphaned children before and after the 1901 census? I had relatives that once worked and lived with their children and worked there . Just wondering what it was called back then and now. Is it still open? Patrick Carmody was a worker on farm there in 1901. Thank you.

Hi, Thanks a million any chance of the 1841 and 61 ? Sorry to be a pest ! THANK YOU. Keith. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie de Haan" <gallorosso@home.nl> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] 1851 census look up please MERCHANT/MARCHANT? > Hello Keith, > > Not sure if this is your guy in 1851, but there seems to be a George > MARCHANT at 27 Old Nichols, a tailor aged 47 with wife Elizabeth 44 > Daughters Frances 17, Barbara 14, sons John 11, Charles 5 James 5 and > daughter Elizabeth 20 tailoress, all born Shoreditch. Regd Bethnal Green, > St > Phillip, Tower Hamlets. > > HTH > Katie de Haan > The Netherlands > > > > -----Original Message-----From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of keith > Hammond > Sent: dinsdag 21 september 2010 16:55 > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [MDX] 1851 census look up > please Hi, can any kind person plase help ? I am looking for a > GEORGE MERCHANT on the 1851 census he was a coachman about 45 years old > ? > living old nichols street area. Any help would please be so very > kind.Thank > you. Keith. sorry my info is so poor ! > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Keith, Not sure if this is your guy in 1851, but there seems to be a George MARCHANT at 27 Old Nichols, a tailor aged 47 with wife Elizabeth 44 Daughters Frances 17, Barbara 14, sons John 11, Charles 5 James 5 and daughter Elizabeth 20 tailoress, all born Shoreditch. Regd Bethnal Green, St Phillip, Tower Hamlets. HTH Katie de Haan The Netherlands -----Original Message-----From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of keith Hammond Sent: dinsdag 21 september 2010 16:55 To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [MDX] 1851 census look up please Hi, can any kind person plase help ? I am looking for a GEORGE MERCHANT on the 1851 census he was a coachman about 45 years old ? living old nichols street area. Any help would please be so very kind.Thank you. Keith. sorry my info is so poor !

Hi, can any kind person plase help ? I am looking for a GEORGE MERCHANT on the 1851 census he was a coachman about 45 years old ? living old nichols street area. Any help would please be so very kind.Thank you. Keith. sorry my info is so poor !

The nearest online map to what is require that I now is at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html under Middlesex 1874-94. Maps showing the detail required for earlier period are uncommon and I do not know whether or not they exist for Isleworth. Regards Cliff Webb

Hi David If you are looking on Ancestry for hatchings, matchings and despatching in Isleworth from the 18th to 19th centuries (and, as Cliff pointed out, these are limited to the BTs for a 30 year period) then you need to be working with four separate datasets. They are: London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 The first three of these are indexed. If you are sure the events you are looking for took place at All Saints, Isleworth then type that into the parish field on the front page of the data set in question. To widen your search, just choose Hounslow as the borough from the drop down list. If you prefer to search the register pages one by one, then use the Browse pane on the right hand side, choosing Hounslow as the borough and All Saints, Isleworth from the parish drop down. Then pick a year from those offered in the third drop down. The fourth set are unindexed (as yet), so you will need to browse these as described above. Note that, despite the title, the registers for the period in question are combined baptism and burial registers - marriages from 1800 to 1830 are in the indexed set. For Teddington, use the same process as above, but the borough in question is Richmond upon Thames. Hope this helps Caroline > > Thanks for your reply, Cliff. I have looked on Ancestry and cant find > them. > I have looked at the list of all parish records and specifically those > of > Middlesex. I have also put in the search terms Hounslow and Isleworth > in the > card index but still no result. > > I have put the surnames I am interested in, into the general parish > register > search but no results for Isleworth so perhaps there was non between > 1800 > and 1830. I would, however, like to home in on the particular parish so > can > you give me any more guidance on searching Ancestry. > > I now find that the same family I am looking for at Isleworth has also > led > me to Teddington in 18th century. Can you advise? > > Thank you > > David Railton > > -----Original Message----- > From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Cliff > Webb > Sent: 20 September 2010 11:03 > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDX] Isleworth Parish Registers > > Isleworth parish registers are not deposited at LMA (they are at > Hounslow > Central Reference Library), and therefore do not figure in Ancestry's > digitisation programme. However, the bishops' transcripts are at LMA. > They > only > survive from 1800 to 1830, but these are digitised and available on the > Ancestry > website under Hounslow/All Saints Isleworth. > > Isleworth is in West Surrey FHS' program of indexing and both baptisms > and > burials are in progress, but have not yet been checked. When they are, > they > will > be put on our Middlesex baptism and burial CDs for sale, and probably > on > some > ppv site as well. > Regards > Cliff Webb >

Thanks for your reply, Cliff. I have looked on Ancestry and cant find them. I have looked at the list of all parish records and specifically those of Middlesex. I have also put in the search terms Hounslow and Isleworth in the card index but still no result. I have put the surnames I am interested in, into the general parish register search but no results for Isleworth so perhaps there was non between 1800 and 1830. I would, however, like to home in on the particular parish so can you give me any more guidance on searching Ancestry. I now find that the same family I am looking for at Isleworth has also led me to Teddington in 18th century. Can you advise? Thank you David Railton -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Webb Sent: 20 September 2010 11:03 To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDX] Isleworth Parish Registers Isleworth parish registers are not deposited at LMA (they are at Hounslow Central Reference Library), and therefore do not figure in Ancestry's digitisation programme. However, the bishops' transcripts are at LMA. They only survive from 1800 to 1830, but these are digitised and available on the Ancestry website under Hounslow/All Saints Isleworth. Isleworth is in West Surrey FHS' program of indexing and both baptisms and burials are in progress, but have not yet been checked. When they are, they will be put on our Middlesex baptism and burial CDs for sale, and probably on some ppv site as well. Regards Cliff Webb ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Anne, Thanks SO much for that information. Is that church indexed on Ancestry now, or did you have to trawl through the images to find it? Thanks again, Maureen -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Chambers Sent: Monday, 20 September 2010 10:19 AM To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDX] Whitechapel church I've just had a quick browse through the St Mary Whitechapel (Borough Tower Hamlets) images for 1784/5 on Ancestry John Rolfe son of Isaac and Elizabeth, Chamber Street, was baptised on 5 July 1784 I'll send the image Anne South Australia mcreyn02@tpg.com.au wrote: > My longstanding brick wall is the parents of John ROLFE, born 1781 or 1783, > and his sister Mary Ann ROLFE, born 1785 in Whitechapel. > > What is the most like church in Whitechapel at that time where I may find > their baptisms? > > Thanks for any help, > Maureen in Sydney ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

No, it's not indexed but the images are beautifully clear. lovely handwriting and very quick to browse through. There's no sign of Mary Ann to the end of 1787. The IGI has another son of Isaac and Elizabeth WILLIAM ISAAC ROLFE Pedigree Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: DEC 1781 St Botolph Without Aldgate, London, London, England Parents: Father: ISAAC ROLFE Family Mother: ELIZABETH Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date. Source Information: Batch No.: C006338 1780 - 1796 as well as John JOHN ROLFE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: JUL 1784 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England Anne mcreyn02@tpg.com.au wrote: > Hi Anne, > > Thanks SO much for that information. Is that church indexed on Ancestry > now, or did you have to trawl through the images to find it? > > Thanks again, > Maureen > > -----Original Message----- > From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Chambers > Sent: Monday, 20 September 2010 10:19 AM > To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDX] Whitechapel church > > I've just had a quick browse through the St Mary Whitechapel (Borough Tower > Hamlets) images for 1784/5 on Ancestry > > John Rolfe son of Isaac and Elizabeth, Chamber Street, was baptised on 5 > July 1784 > > I'll send the image > > Anne > South Australia > > > mcreyn02@tpg.com.au wrote: >> My longstanding brick wall is the parents of John ROLFE, born 1781 or > 1783, >> and his sister Mary Ann ROLFE, born 1785 in Whitechapel. >> >> What is the most like church in Whitechapel at that time where I may find >> their baptisms? >> >> Thanks for any help, >> Maureen in Sydney > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would be very interested in a detailed map of Isleworth too - my interest is 1841 to 1880s. My interest is in the "three Victoria Cottages" in Link Lane (Linkfield Lane). Maureen -----Original Message----- Can anyone please direct me to a source for detailed maps of Isleworth for the period 1780 -1840? The particular area I am interested in is the site now occupied by Nazareth House, Richmond Road, Isleworth TW7 7BP. David

Isleworth parish registers are not deposited at LMA (they are at Hounslow Central Reference Library), and therefore do not figure in Ancestry's digitisation programme. However, the bishops' transcripts are at LMA. They only survive from 1800 to 1830, but these are digitised and available on the Ancestry website under Hounslow/All Saints Isleworth. Isleworth is in West Surrey FHS' program of indexing and both baptisms and burials are in progress, but have not yet been checked. When they are, they will be put on our Middlesex baptism and burial CDs for sale, and probably on some ppv site as well. Regards Cliff Webb