In two weeks time on Saturday 6th November West Surrey FHS is holding its annual Open Day and Family History Fair at Woking Leisure Centre, Kingfield Road, Woking GU22 9BA from 10am to 4.30pm. This is one of the largest events of its kind with numerous family history societies in attendance, plus commercial sellers of books, postcards, software and all the usual products. Admission, parking, the research facilities, help desks, and the talks are all free. For Middlesex researchers, organisations of local interest include London, Westminster and Middlesex FHS, West Middlesex FHS, Hillingdon FHS, plus the London LDS Family History Centre (from Kensington), Sunbury and Shepperton Local History Society - as well as organisations from neighbouring counties of Berks, Bucks, Essex, Herts, Kent, Oxon, - and both Surrey societies (of course). Full details of the CDs and all the publications including those covering Middlesex are on the website at: http://www.wsfhs.org/publications.htm As usual, there will be a separate large hall providing a wide range of resources offering advice and computer look-ups from the WSFHS databases, official free access to sites including Ancestry, Findmypast and Origins. Specialist help desks for various research topics. A third room is set aside for a programme of talks running throughout the day with free tickets being issued on a first come, first served basis. There is a large free car park, and a cafeteria on site offers good quality breakfasts and lunches at reasonable prices, as well as sandwiches and rolls and sweet stickies..........., or just a cup of tea or coffee. The venue is a comfortable 15 minute walk from the railway station, or there's a regular local bus service. For information about stallholders, help desks, the talks, travel directions etc etc, see: http://www.wsfhs.org/Openday.htm Ann Middx Admin

Hello Thanks for telling me where North Audley Street is, but I already knew that. I have been passed the streets. What I do want to know is "WHAT CHURCHES are around there, where an illegitimate child or any child could be christened back about 1845. Also what website could help me look for this WILL. Thank you again Diane Hello My gr grandmother was born on North Audley Street, London, Middlesex about 1845. She was illegitimate. I know that some children were never baptized, but would like to try and find it. I do belong to ancestry and have tried this. Her name was Fanny Adams, real father was Donald MacPherson, mother I have no idea. When she was married she said her father was George Adams, which I have a oil/water painting of either him or Donald. I have all info after she was married but nothing before. Even in the census after, she seemed to be born a different year and different places. There is a WILL from Donald MacPherson, (no idea when he died). He did leave her money but could never prove she was his daughter so never got the money. Her oldest daughter tried to get at the WILL but was unsuccessful. I am also looking for that too. Fanny died in 1907, Fanny Britten. I have looked at the English website on WILL's but can't seem to get at what I want, it is just too confusing. Anyone have any suggestions on this. Thank you very much. Diane Potter Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada

Hi list, On the 20th of October, received a publicity email from TNA announcing 2 interactive resources.  Follow these links: For the Domesday records. http://labs.nationalarchives.gov.uk/wordpress/index.php/2010/10/domesday-on-a-map/ For Historical photographs. http://labs.nationalarchives.gov.uk/wordpress/index.php/2010/03/uk-history-photo-finder/ Enjoy -- Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. -- Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K.

Hello fellow listers. Could someone tell me when and where the Lucitania was when it was torpedoed. Was it during one of the World Wars? I have a relative that was on it at that time. Sharon

Anne Chambers wrote: > How about Births Dec 1846 > Pearse Maria Clerkenwell 3 84 > > She may have been registered very late. The apparent "wrong" district could be accounted for by the fact births have to be registered where the birth took place which could also account for why it's just a tad outside the required time <G> -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Lawrence Pearse wrote: > I am having great trouble trying to track down a birth record in > 1846 for someone whose baptism I have and for whom I have census > records in 1851 and 1861. The search is made more complicated - > and thus I hope an interesting challenge for those of you intrigued > by puzzles! - by not knowing under what surname she may have been > recorded, nor in which district, though St Giles and Strand are the > most likely. Start with the surname she had at baptism. Have you had a look on Ancestry's London Parish CMB database? It does cover parishes outside of London and also has some entries from Westminster as well although the bulk of Westminster is outside the agreement Ancestry has with the LMA. > Her forename is Maria - or at least that is how it was recorded in > the census and baptism records. I've found Maria and Mary to be pretty interchangeable. > She was baptised on 30 October 1853 along with 4 of her siblings, > in St Johns Waterloo (yes, Surrey, but the family lived across the > river); the record gives her date of birth as 10 Feb 1846. She would have been rising 7 so still close enough to her actual birth for the DoB to be correct. > > Her father is recorded on the baptisms as having the surname Pearse > Chanler; his actual surname was Pearse, and his forenames John > Joseph. Sorry to be pedantic, but a person's name was whatever he (or she) decided it was. It's the same today - so long as it isn't for fraudulent purposes/reasons. > The 1851 (Pearce) and 1861 (Pearse) censuses record the children's > places of birth as St Clement Danes, although the 1843 birth was > actually registered in St Giles. If you can't find the birth registration, how do you know it was actually St Giles? There weren't the checks and documentation then that there is now so the birth could have been anywhere and given in the census however the person who completed the forms believed it to be. Thus if the family weren't able for whatever reason to complete the form and a friend or neighbour completed it on their behalf, that person may not have been privy to what the family knew so put down what they thought was the truth. > I have trawled FreeBMD looking for likely birth records for Maria > (or similar) in Mar and Jun q 1846 in both St Giles and Strand > registration districts, and have bought a few likely looking BCs > which turned out not to be hers. The reason her birth is missing could be because it didn't reach the GRO itself. There are many births as well as marriages and deaths missing. There's also the additional possibility that the registrar whose job it was to find all the newborns, missed Maria. Although the parents were supposed to register the child within 42 days (6 weeks) of the birth if the registrar hadn't come to them, I suspect a great many didn't bother and considered baptism registration enough. The onus changed later to the parents who would be fined if they didn't register their child within the required time frame. That's when you get DoB anomalies where the parents have given a different date so they are within the 42 days and thus don't get fined. > I would really like to look through the actual registers of both > districts to see if i could track her down through her parents' > names or through an address, but of course the Register offices > will only allow the public to view the indices. Many register offices are willing to check for you. Try asking. > Can some kind person suggest a different way of tackling this > problem of the birth record? You may well have to accept what is in the baptism register as the only evidence of the birth. Although many parents couldn't read or write, it never ceases to amaze me just how accurate they were with ages and DoBs. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Hello List I am having great trouble trying to track down a birth record in 1846 for someone whose baptism I have and for whom I have census records in 1851 and 1861. The search is made more complicated - and thus I hope an interesting challenge for those of you intrigued by puzzles! - by not knowing under what surname she may have been recorded, nor in which district, though St Giles and Strand are the most likely. Her forename is Maria - or at least that is how it was recorded in the census and baptism records. She was baptised on 30 October 1853 along with 4 of her siblings, in St Johns Waterloo (yes, Surrey, but the family lived across the river); the record gives her date of birth as 10 Feb 1846. Her father is recorded on the baptisms as having the surname Pearse Chanler; his actual surname was Pearse, and his forenames John Joseph. I have traced the birth records of Maria's 4 siblings: the father's surname is variously recorded as Calender (1843), Pearse (1847), Pearse Chalner (1850) and Chanler (1853). The father and mother actually married in 1849, when he is recorded as John Joseph Pearse Chanler and his father as William Chanler: in reality both son and father had the surname Pearse at birth. The mother's maiden name was Richardson. The 1851 (Pearce) and 1861 (Pearse) censuses record the children's places of birth as St Clement Danes, although the 1843 birth was actually registered in St Giles. I have trawled FreeBMD looking for likely birth records for Maria (or similar) in Mar and Jun q 1846 in both St Giles and Strand registration districts, and have bought a few likely looking BCs which turned out not to be hers. I have also been through all Marias recorded in Middlesex in those quarters, with no joy. I would really like to look through the actual registers of both districts to see if i could track her down through her parents' names or through an address, but of course the Register offices will only allow the public to view the indices. I have been unable to trace Maria after 1861, either on marriage, in death or in a subsequent census. John Joseph died in 1856, with purely the surname Pearse on the record. Can some kind person suggest a different way of tackling this problem of the birth record? With thanks in anticipation. Lawrence

Hi, There is quite a bit about this workhouse on-line. For a comprehensive overview of the workhouse, and links to a campaign to save it, go to this site http://www.workhouses.org.uk/savethestrand The workhouse stands in the Charlotte Street Conservation Area. The Conservation Area appraisal and plans can be found on the London Borough of Camden's website at http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset?asset_id=1392918 and at http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset?asset_id=1415894 If these links don't work, try http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/content/environment/planning-and-built-environment/conservation-and-design/conservation-areas/download-conservation-area-appraisals-and-management-strategies.en?page=4 The Workhouse, at 44, Cleveland Street, is opposite Foley Street. Many of the buildings opposite the workhouse are Georgian, but the workhouse is adjacent to a mix of modern and Victorian hospital buildings. I note that the workhouse is not listed. Of course, as JK says, how can the books be balanced for funding hospital development and modernisation in the current economic climate. Perhaps a way forward would be to find an alternative use for th workhouse and refurbish it. Hopefully, the Council has worked with the Hospital Trust to explore the various avenues which are open. - Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:51:54 +0100 > From: "Ann Sargeant" <ann.sargeant@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [MDX] Old Strand Union Workhouse, Cleveland Street, - >        Demolition > > Listers may be unaware of a planning application submitted to Camden Council   to demolish the above building, and erect a high rise block on the site - see: http://tiny.cc/etxe2. > It is understood the building is the only purpose-built Georgian workhouse building in London which has been in continuous use for the sick poor of London since the 1770s - until very recently it was the Outpatients' department of the Middlesex Hospital. > > Anyone wishing to help urge the preservation of the old workhouse can (still) contact  joanna.ecclestone@camden.gov.uk the team leader with responsibility for the planning submission to the committee at Camden Council, with a copy if possible to Roger.Bowdler@english-heritage.org.uk > The Council is expected to consider the matter on November 4th 2010. > > More info: > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838385/pdf/bmj00263-0039.pdf > > Ann > Middx Admin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:25:17 +1100 > From: Anne Chapman <anne@chapman.id.au> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Old Strand Union Workhouse, Cleveland Street,  -  Demolition > > That is such a shame.  Don't they have Heritage Buildings, which have to be kept in good/reasonable order? > Anne > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:16:40 +0100 > From: J K gen <gen2mail@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [MDX] Old Strand Union Workhouse, Cleveland Street, -  Demolition > > I believe this proposal was always going to be contentious but is/was required as part of the funding of the re-building of University College Hospital. > > Given the current state of the economy and proposed cutbacks to all government spending I don't see where else the money can be found. > > I'm not sure keeping workhouse buildings in good order is possible or desirable. So, old buildings or modern health care? Stark choice. > Unless someone cares to fund the demolition and removal to some other Heritage Site? Or what other use could be found for the building? And where to get the funding and space for the rest of the UCH rebuilding programme? > > JK >

That is such a shame. Don't they have Heritage Buildings, which have to be kept in good/reasonable order? Anne On 10/20/2010 5:51 PM, Ann Sargeant wrote: > Listers may be unaware of a planning application submitted to > Camden Council to demolish the above building, and erect a high rise block > on the site - see: http://tiny.cc/etxe2. > It is understood the building is the only purpose-built Georgian workhouse > building in London which has been in continuous use for the sick poor of > London since the 1770s - until very recently it was the Outpatients' > department of the Middlesex Hospital. > > Anyone wishing to help urge the preservation of the old > workhouse can (still) contact joanna.ecclestone@camden.gov.uk the team > leader with responsibility for the planning submission to the committee at > Camden Council, with a copy if possible to > Roger.Bowdler@english-heritage.org.uk > The Council is expected to consider the matter on November 4th 2010. > > More info: > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838385/pdf/bmj00263-0039.pdf > > Ann > Middx Admin > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

North Audley Street London is off Oxford Street and not far from Bond Street tube station in one direction and Marble Arch station in the opposite direstion. It is also quite close to Park Lane and Hyde Park. so quite a "Posh" area of London where people might well have had servants. Even less rich people had a servant or two back then, labour was cheap to hire. If You google for North Audley Street London you should get up a map of the area of London with the street in question pinpointed. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> When I was over in London, England in 1992, we were on the bus and my cousin > said to me that is North Audley St. where Fanny was born. > Another question - about 1845 was North Audley Street where Fanny's mother > could > have been a servant to a rich family????>>

I believe this proposal was always going to be contentious but is/was required as part of the funding of the re-building of University College Hospital. Given the current state of the economy and proposed cutbacks to all government spending I don't see where else the money can be found. I'm not sure keeping workhouse buildings in good order is possible or desirable. So, old buildings or modern health care? Stark choice. Unless someone cares to fund the demolition and removal to some other Heritage Site? Or what other use could be found for the building? And where to get the funding and space for the rest of the UCH rebuilding programme? JK On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Anne Chapman <anne@chapman.id.au> wrote: > That is such a shame.  Don't they have Heritage Buildings, which have to > be kept in good/reasonable order?  Anne > > On 10/20/2010 5:51 PM, Ann Sargeant wrote: >> Listers may be unaware of a planning application submitted to >> Camden Council   to demolish the above building, and erect a high rise block >> on the site - see: http://tiny.cc/etxe2. >> It is understood the building is the only purpose-built Georgian workhouse >> building in London which has been in continuous use for the sick poor of >> London since the 1770s - until very recently it was the Outpatients' >> department of the Middlesex Hospital. >> >> Anyone wishing to help urge the preservation of the old >> workhouse can (still) contact  joanna.ecclestone@camden.gov.uk the team >> leader with responsibility for the planning submission to the committee at >> Camden Council, with a copy if possible to >> Roger.Bowdler@english-heritage.org.uk >> The Council is expected to consider the matter on November 4th 2010. >> >> More info: >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838385/pdf/bmj00263-0039.pdf >> >> Ann >> Middx Admin >> >> >> ************************************** >> Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. >> >> List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Listers may be unaware of a planning application submitted to Camden Council to demolish the above building, and erect a high rise block on the site - see: http://tiny.cc/etxe2. It is understood the building is the only purpose-built Georgian workhouse building in London which has been in continuous use for the sick poor of London since the 1770s - until very recently it was the Outpatients' department of the Middlesex Hospital. Anyone wishing to help urge the preservation of the old workhouse can (still) contact joanna.ecclestone@camden.gov.uk the team leader with responsibility for the planning submission to the committee at Camden Council, with a copy if possible to Roger.Bowdler@english-heritage.org.uk The Council is expected to consider the matter on November 4th 2010. More info: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838385/pdf/bmj00263-0039.pdf Ann Middx Admin

So have you checked the Scottish Wills? ScotlandsPeople has details of Wills and is a pay per view website available online. Just google and then sign up. JK On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Diane Potter <dbelton99@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > My grandmother always told me (and this was many many times), that we had > Scottish blood in us, referring to the MacPherson name. > > > Diane > >

Diane Potter wrote: > My gr grandmother was born on North Audley Street, London, Middlesex about 1845. > She was illegitimate. 8>< snip Three of us replied to your original message which you posted yesterday. Did you not see them? They are in the list's archives. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Middlesex_County_UK/2010-10/1287328319 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Middlesex_County_UK/2010-10/1287331146 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Middlesex_County_UK/2010-10/1287332249 Click on any of the above links to see the replies. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Hello again This is the story: First of all, I have had 3 different family members who hadn't seen each other in YEARS tell me the same thing. One I met in 1992 in England, the other in 2007 in England and my grandmother here in Canada. The two in England hadn't seen each other in years and didn't when I was there either. The mother, no one bothered to tell me her name but it could have been Fanny as well, but they all knew that Donald MacPherson, (from a rich family) was the father. Donald & the mother were going to get married but Donald's parents told him if they did get married he would be cut out of the families money and they wouldn't have anything to do with him. So the mother had "Fanny" out of wedlock. When Donald died he left a WILL and left Fanny (his child) some money. She couldn't prove that Donald was her real father, so she never got it. I am presuming the mother got married to a George Adams. As far as the picture goes, it could be either one of the men. My grandmother always told me (and this was many many times), that we had Scottish blood in us, referring to the MacPherson name. When I was talking to the last family member, she told me that her grandmother whose name was also Fanny (first child born) tried to look for the WILL of Donald MacPherson's with no luck. This Fanny was born 1872 - 1937. Her mother Fanny was born Sept 1843-45. I can only guess about Donald MacPherson's death would be before 1907 as Fanny (born Sept 1843 - 45) died in 1907. I would be looking at a 20-30 year search, possibly between 1865-1895. On her marriage cert it states that her father was George Adams - Mason - deceased. Fanny Adams & Charles Joseph Britten married in 1872. If I could email the picture to someone maybe the type of suit the man is wearing could tell you something about if he was rich or just in his Sunday best. I have been doing research for 25 years now and have never been able to find the info I am looking for. As to the English website for the WILLS, it is the National Archives. When I was over in London, England in 1992, we were on the bus and my cousin said to me that is North Audley St. where Fanny was born. Another question - about 1845 was North Audley Street where Fanny's mother could have been a servant to a rich family???? Diane

Hello My gr grandmother was born on North Audley Street, London, Middlesex about 1845. She was illegitimate. I know that some children were never baptized, but would like to try and find it. I do belong to ancestry and have tried this. Her name was Fanny Adams, real father was Donald MacPherson, mother I have no idea. When she was married she said her father was George Adams, which I have a oil/water painting of either him or Donald. I have all info after she was married but nothing before. Even in the census after, she seemed to be born a different year and different places. There is a WILL from Donald MacPherson, (no idea when he died). He did leave her money but could never prove she was his daughter so never got the money. Her oldest daughter tried to get at the WILL but was unsuccessful. I am also looking for that too. Fanny died in 1907, Fanny Britten. I have looked at the English website on WILL's but can't seem to get at what I want, it is just too confusing. Anyone have any suggestions on this. Thank you very much. Diane Potter Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada

Hello list. I would love to know if there is anyone who is researching these people? William Robert Llewellin b. 1847 Sarah E. Hine b.1853 Children were: Elizabeth Llewellin b. 1873 Ann Llewellin b. 1875 William Llewellin b. 1877 Lousia Llewellin b. 1879 Alice Llewellin b. 1881 Robert Llewellin b. 1885 Lillian Llewellin b. 1888 James Llewellin b. 1890 Ada Violet Llewellin b. 1892 William Robert Llewellin Annie Elizabeth Llewellin (nee Rolfe) (nee Wingfield) Children were: Arthur Edward Llewellyn b. 1899 I am interested in find any of this family who may have been in touch with Ada or Arthur after they and Annie came here to Canada. I have some info on Ada and Arthur but not much. If you can help please get in touch as this would be wonderful to meet more of the family. Thankyou, Sharon

Hello All. I have just displayed a preview page for the following map: Stanford's Library Map Of London And Its Suburbs; Or, Geological Library Map Of London 1878 http://archivemaps.com/mapco/london1878/london64.htm This will be the last MAPCO map displayed for some time, so I want to make it special. The enlarged image ('click-to-enlarge') for this map is the largest I have ever produced, and I want feedback as to whether it is too big. Please let me know what you think. All replies off-list please. Thank you. Kind regards, David Hale, Adelaide, South Australia. MAPCO : Map And Plan Collection Online http://archivemaps.com Map of London 1851 http://london1851.com Map of London 1868 http://london1868.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello All. I wish to express my sincere thanks to everyone who emailed me on and off-list regarding the 1877 London Parish Boundaries Map. I had intended to reply to each message individually, but the shear volume of communication has made this unfeasible. As such, I just want to thank each and every person for their thoughts, comments, and suggestions. I have read every message, and will investigate all of the suggestions made over time. I also wish to apologise to the list owner, as I should have requested all correspondence be off-list. My sincere apologies for this oversight. As for: Map Of London Showing The Boundaries Of Parishes, Ecclesiastical Districts, And Poor Law Divisions. 1877. http://archivemaps.com/mapco/parish/parish.htm I have displayed the preview image again, but the map will remain off-line. Please make any further correspondence on this subject off-list. Thank you. Kind regards, David Hale, Adelaide, South Australia. MAPCO : Map And Plan Collection Online http://archivemaps.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What a fabulous map - excellent and very quick to load Thank you David Debbie On 17/10/2010 14:58, David Hale (Home) wrote: > Hello All. > > I have just displayed a preview page for the following map: > > Stanford's Library Map Of London And Its Suburbs; Or, Geological > Library Map Of London 1878 > http://archivemaps.com/mapco/london1878/london64.htm > > This will be the last MAPCO map displayed for some time, so I want to > make it special. > > The enlarged image ('click-to-enlarge') for this map is the largest I > have ever produced, and I want feedback as to whether it is too big. > > Please let me know what you think. All replies off-list please. Thank you. > > Kind regards, > > David Hale, > Adelaide, > South Australia. > > MAPCO : Map And Plan Collection Online > http://archivemaps.com > > Map of London 1851 > http://london1851.com > > Map of London 1868 > http://london1868.com > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >