On 12 Nov 2010, at 09:54, April Moran wrote: > Thanks Judy, here goes: > > My original query was this, On a baptism image, the words 'of Rate' > were > written after the fathers name but before his occupation, can any > one tell > me what this means? - I think it is probably a shortened version of 'Ratcliffe' then a hamlet of Stepney. There is a squiggle after the 'c'. Notice that some others are of Poplar, not then a separate parish, and others of MENT ie Mile End New Town and MEOT, Mile End Old Town. JH > > I have been looking for a John Wilkinson b.1764 on the Ancestry > site, this > is what I found: > Name: John Wilkinson - baptism date: 9th March 1764, parish: > St.Dunstans and > All Saints, County: Middlesex, Borough: Tower Hamlets, Parents: Philip > Wilkinson, Eliz Wilkinson > > On the image itself it states: > John son of Philip Wilkinson. of Rate~ Mercer & Eliz~. > > I have since found a couple of Burials with this wording, one gives > the > person's name then wording 'of Rate' the other gives the person's > name and > then the wording 'from Rate', which leads me to think that this > wording > could mean the area where they are living? > If so, where is Rate, or is this a shortened version? > > Whilst I have been writing this and looking at the image, I have just > thought - Could this wording be a shortened version of Ratcliffe? > > Pleased to here any ideas any one may have, > April

April, I'm sure your last thought below is correct -- "of Ratcliff". I believe it's written "of Ratc", and in most cases there's a small horizontal line above the final "c", indicating that the word has been abbreviated. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of April Moran My original query was this, On a baptism image, the words 'of Rate' were written after the fathers name but before his occupation, can any one tell me what this means? - I have been looking for a John Wilkinson b.1764 on the Ancestry site, this is what I found: Name: John Wilkinson - baptism date: 9th March 1764, parish: St.Dunstans and All Saints, County: Middlesex, Borough: Tower Hamlets, Parents: Philip Wilkinson, Eliz Wilkinson On the image itself it states: John son of Philip Wilkinson. of Rate~ Mercer & Eliz~. I have since found a couple of Burials with this wording, one gives the person's name then wording 'of Rate' the other gives the person's name and then the wording 'from Rate', which leads me to think that this wording could mean the area where they are living? If so, where is Rate, or is this a shortened version? Whilst I have been writing this and looking at the image, I have just thought - Could this wording be a shortened version of Ratcliffe? Pleased to here any ideas any one may have, April > April, it's quite difficult for anyone to help without seeing the > context of your query. > > If it is an online image (e.g. from Ancestry), please post some details > -- parish, date, name. That way other people can look it and may be able > to help. > I have another query for you knowledgeable people: > On a baptism image, the words "of rate" were written after the fathers > name but before his occupation, can any one please tell me what this > means? > > many thanks - April

Thanks Judy, here goes: My original query was this, On a baptism image, the words 'of Rate' were written after the fathers name but before his occupation, can any one tell me what this means? - I have been looking for a John Wilkinson b.1764 on the Ancestry site, this is what I found: Name: John Wilkinson - baptism date: 9th March 1764, parish: St.Dunstans and All Saints, County: Middlesex, Borough: Tower Hamlets, Parents: Philip Wilkinson, Eliz Wilkinson On the image itself it states: John son of Philip Wilkinson. of Rate~ Mercer & Eliz~. I have since found a couple of Burials with this wording, one gives the person's name then wording 'of Rate' the other gives the person's name and then the wording 'from Rate', which leads me to think that this wording could mean the area where they are living? If so, where is Rate, or is this a shortened version? Whilst I have been writing this and looking at the image, I have just thought - Could this wording be a shortened version of Ratcliffe? Pleased to here any ideas any one may have, April > April, it's quite difficult for anyone to help without seeing the > context of your query. > > If it is an online image (e.g. from Ancestry), please post some details > -- parish, date, name. That way other people can look it and may be able > to help. > I have another query for you knowledgeable people: > On a baptism image, the words "of rate" were written after the fathers > name but before his occupation, can any one please tell me what this > means? > > many thanks - April >

Richard M Brown wrote: > Have you tried the shipping passenger lists at Ancestorsonboard? > http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/ > Use this site directly, rather than through a third party provider > (cheaper downloads and faster to search). It's FindMyPast :)) They have a separate site for it the same as they have a separate one for the 1911 census as well as having it on their main site. The search results take you straight to FMP's main site. I was able to view the images as well apparently for free but I have a sub to FMP which it may have recognised. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Sharon, Have you tried the shipping passenger lists at Ancestorsonboard? http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/ Use this site directly, rather than through a third party provider (cheaper downloads and faster to search). The chances are that your ancestor and his bride to be (messages in this MIDDX post indicate that they married in Canada) would have travelled by ship, and possibly on the same voyage, or the bride to be followed him out to Canada some months later. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:51:39 -0400 > From: "sharon macvicar" <bpmax@seascape.ns.ca> > Subject: [MDX] RE- ENGLAND > > Hello listers; > > I know this is going to be asking alot but here it goes. > :>< SNIP > > ....... my father was in WW 2 and was stationed in England. I read in his papers that he was thinking of getting married and staying in England, and have the need to see if I can find out who he was thinking of marrying and possibly if just maybe there was a child involved. I would be so excited to find said child and the family and get to know them and let them know about his life after he came back to Canada and for them to get to know his family all of them. > > Sharon > -- Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K.

My husband's FORD family were among those in steerage too! BUT...they turned out OK despite Henry Parkes' observation. .

Thankyou Charani (UK) but I am in Canada, so there is some sort of a difference in time, not at all sure of the difference but some. Do you have and email or website that I could go to, to find out from them if my dad is named or not. Your help is greatfully appreciated. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <charani.b@gmail.com> To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] RE-ENGLAND > sharon macvicar wrote: > >> As I have thought about this for a long time and only now have come >> to the decision to see if maybe there was a sibling maybe two that >> I may have I only would like to let them know if they are >> interested in what happend with him after he and the lady went >> their own ways. > > You'll probably never know but there are organisations, such as the > British Red Cross and Salvation Army who have files on those looking > for lost relatives, including children with overseas forces fathers > looking for half siblings. It might be worth contacting them to see > if your father is named. If he is, the organisation will act as an > intermediary initially. If he's not, then you can register your > interest in any half siblings that might one day want to find out > more, that's assuming s/he/they know who their father is. They may > not have been told or they may have been adopted and not want to know. > > BTW, your computer clock is 12 hours adrift :)) > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello listers; My father did not marry in England but only thought he was going to marry. So I would not be able to find anything in BMD. for England. As I have thought about this for a long time and only now have come to the decision to see if maybe there was a sibling maybe two that I may have I only would like to let them know if they are interested in what happend with him after he and the lady went their own ways. Sharon ps. I do not expect to be welcomed with wide open arms just to let them know about him. If they do have open arms and hearts that would be the best thing I could recieve. I would welcome them as I know that back in the time it was not easy for the lady or her family or for any children that may have come out of it. But one can only try with open everything.

Hello listers; I know this is going to be asking alot but here it goes. Here in Canada we have a magazine call "Legion" which is for those in the sevices of Canada. I would like to know if England also has such a magazine? If anyone knows would you please let me know what it is and the address for it if possible. Thankyou oh so much in advance. The reason for this is that my father was in WW 2 and was stationed in England. I read in his papers that he was thinking of getting married and staying in England, and have the need to see if I can find out who he was thinking of marrying and possibly if just maybe there was a child involved. I would be so excited to find said child and the family and get to know them and let them know about his life after he came back to Canada and for them to get to know his family all of them. Sharon

Go for it, Sharon! Naturally, it's wise to be aware of different interests in a sensitive matter like this, but you have thought about this long and hard and, anyway, I'd imagine any reserve would more likely be on the side of a father's later family, than with any child born earlier in Europe. And, as one of those children in Europe myself, I can only say I would LOVE to hear from my unknown father's family in Canada. Over the past six years, I've made great inroads in discovering my mother's family's past, on and off lists like these. It has opened up whole new worlds for me and is nothing short of enthralling. But that's only half my story: my mother's side. In consolation, I tell myself I have neither the time, the energy, nor the money to spend on unravelling my father's past as well, but of course that's complete and utter nonsense: I'd give my right arm to know who he was and where he and his family came from, how their lives were and not least whether I have any half-brothers or sisters somewhere on this earth! Charani has mentioned the Red Cross and SA and these days there are organisations online who try to co-ordinate searches like yours, which should be easy to find online. I recall Olga Raynes worked for and with the Red Cross in years gone by, but internet has speeded some things up. I wish you all the luck and persistence in the world, Sharon. I'd still be up and running with you, but since my mother and other relations omitted to tell me his full name before they died, most of my trailing options have run out. [And before this is declared off topic, I would add that I was born in the London area and that he probably spent time in the London/Middlesex area as well, wherever he might have been stationed.] ;-) Good luck! Katie de Haan The Netherlands (Born London, England) ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon macvicar" <bpmax@seascape.ns.ca>To: <middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:34 AMSubject: [MDX] RE-ENGLAND > Hello listers; My father did not marry in England but only thought he was > going to marry. So I would not be able to find anything in BMD. for > England. > As I have thought about this for a long time and only now have come to the > decision to see if maybe there was a sibling maybe two that I may have I > only would like to let them know if they are interested in what happend > with him after he and the lady went their own ways. > Sharon ps. > I do not expect to be welcomed with wide open arms just to > let them know about him. If they do have open arms and hearts that would > be the best thing I could recieve. I would welcome them as I know that > back in the time it was not easy for the lady or her family or for any > children that may have come out of it. > But one can only try with open > everything. No virus found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (6.0.0.18 - 10.004.016). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/

For times worldwide try http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ Michael Allbrook who is shortly heading up the wooden hill _____ From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charani Sent: 11 November 2010 22:16 To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDX] RE-ENGLAND sharon macvicar wrote: > Thankyou Charani (UK) but I am in Canada, so there is some sort of a > difference in time, not at all sure of the difference but some. That won't make any difference. The time difference ranges from 3-9 hours depending on where in Canada you are and also whether the UK and Canada have changed the clocks or not. > Do you have and email or website that I could go to, to find out from them > if my dad is named or not. Google says this is the site for the British Red Cross: www.redcross.org.uk/What-we-do and for the Salvation Army: www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/familytracing If they can't help they should be able to direct you to someone who can. > Your help is greatfully appreciated. YW & NP :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/ ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3250 - Release Date: 11/11/10

Katie de Haan wrote: > Charani has mentioned the Red Cross and SA and these days there are > organisations online who try to co-ordinate searches like yours, which > should be easy to find online. I recall Olga Raynes worked for and with the > Red Cross in years gone by, but internet has speeded some things up. As you say, there are other organisations but I don't know who they are, nor which ones are reputable and which aren't. Unfortunately there are always some who exploit those, like Sharon and yourself, want to make contact with service parents. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

sharon macvicar wrote: > Thankyou Charani (UK) but I am in Canada, so there is some sort of a > difference in time, not at all sure of the difference but some. That won't make any difference. The time difference ranges from 3-9 hours depending on where in Canada you are and also whether the UK and Canada have changed the clocks or not. > Do you have and email or website that I could go to, to find out from them > if my dad is named or not. Google says this is the site for the British Red Cross: www.redcross.org.uk/What-we-do and for the Salvation Army: www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/familytracing If they can't help they should be able to direct you to someone who can. > Your help is greatfully appreciated. YW & NP :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

My 3G grandfather Robert NEWMAN was probably born around or just before 1785. I can't do better than that at present. He married first in 1802 to Mary BARNFATHER at St. George's Hanover Sq. I don't believe there was any issue. She died 1803-04 I understand. Robert married again in 1807, to Mary MAZEMORE, at St Luke, Old Street (Finsbury). They had three children. 1.Philip Robert (my GG grandfather), b. 1807, St. Marylebone St. Mary, Mary Ann b, 1812. He married Margaret Eliza BARNFATHER (possibly a niece of Mary BARNFATHER (above)in 1836 in Lambeth, Surrey at St. John The Evangelist. They had six children (5 s, 1 d). I have quite a lot of information on these children, particularly the eldest, Philip Harry, my G grandfather. These children are mostly Middlesex born. I have a lot of information on the eldest, considerably less on the remainder. 2.Mary Ann, b. 1812, m. Henry TURTON 1824 Lambeth, St. John The Evangelist. They had three children and without going into all the details, I have a fair bit of info which runs out at most with the 1901 census. 3. Robert, b 1810, St Mary, Marylebone Road. Not much other than the 1881 census yet. I would be interested in communicating with anyone who has any of these folks in their sites or is descendent from. I know I have a lot of work to do but assistance or direction to look is always appreciated. Sincerely Philip Johnson Edmonton, Alberta

sharon macvicar wrote: > As I have thought about this for a long time and only now have come > to the decision to see if maybe there was a sibling maybe two that > I may have I only would like to let them know if they are > interested in what happend with him after he and the lady went > their own ways. You'll probably never know but there are organisations, such as the British Red Cross and Salvation Army who have files on those looking for lost relatives, including children with overseas forces fathers looking for half siblings. It might be worth contacting them to see if your father is named. If he is, the organisation will act as an intermediary initially. If he's not, then you can register your interest in any half siblings that might one day want to find out more, that's assuming s/he/they know who their father is. They may not have been told or they may have been adopted and not want to know. BTW, your computer clock is 12 hours adrift :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

sharon macvicar wrote: > The reason for this is that my father was in WW 2 and was stationed > in England. I read in his papers that he was thinking of getting > married and staying in England, and have the need to see if I can > find out who he was thinking of marrying and possibly if just maybe > there was a child involved. I would be so excited to find said > child and the family and get to know them and let them know about > his life after he came back to Canada and for them to get to know > his family all of them. If he stayed in England and married, then you'll find the marriage in FindMyPast and/or AncestryUK. FreeBMD hasn't got that far as yet. From there you should be able to find be able to find any children there might have been, providing he didn't marry a widow. Widows married under their late husband's name, as you know, but didn't always make mention of their maiden name. It's the maiden name that'll be on the child(ren)'s birth certificates, probably with no mention of their previous married name. Do bear in mind that whilst you'd be excited about the prospect of having some half siblings, they may not be so overjoyed. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk http://www.savethegurkhas.co.uk/

Charani wrote about the quite remarkable story of Gyles Mackerell. I saw the BBC report on 1st.Nov and my interest was awakened by the comment that the elephants were the property of Steel Bros. a large merchant company in Burma. After the WW2 I returned to Lloyds where I was a broker, and later an underwriter, and had as a client the elephant herd of Steel Bros. It was a substantial herd worth many £100,000's which I insured for many years - if my recollection is correct they were eventually nationalised by the Burmese Government. They were employed rather like a farmer uses a tractor, for moving tree trunks and other large heavy objects. My other recollection was that they were prone to die of respiratory complaints and stomach problems. I had never before heard of the amazing story of Gyles Mackerell. Caribou

I have just come across a very interesting little book "An Emigrant's Home Letters" 1st published in 1896. If your ancestors left the UK in 1839-44 you may be interested. The letters are from Henry Parkes (later Premier of NSW) to his sister in England. The letters describe the preparation for the journey in London 15 changes of clothes required because they weren't allowed to do washing on the ship!! The passage from London to Plymouth and the conditions on board, and the hardship they endured when they arrived in Sydney. My ancestor Walter MINNS a farm labourer from Buxted Sussex travelled steerage on the same ship as Henry PARKES and is described - " And there are many farm labourers from Sussex in the steerage - a very rude set " Only a few passengers mentioned by name Mr WALKER from Newbold Warwickshire, Mr Badham from B'ham and also a clergyman boarded at Plymouth. He isn't mentioned by name but was The Rev Robert Thornly BOLTON. The book is a scanned reprint published 2010 and I ordered mine from Abebooks on the Internet. I have no interest in Abebooks, the cost was US16 including p.p. Regards Sheila

Hello all - I have been off the list for quite some time but am really pleased to be back, especially pleased to see names that I remember still there helping others with advice and their knowledge, as you've helped and advised me in the past - Bravo !! I have another query for you knowledgeable people: On a baptism image, the words "of rate" were written after the fathers name but before his occupation, can any one please tell me what this means? many thanks - April

Rebecca Watts I have been looking for a Rebecca Watts - my g grandmother. Any other Watts researchers? I initially found her, spouse and children in Michigan 1870 and 1880 Census. >From these census records & death record, From the death record I learned she was born in London and that supposedly when she died in 1880 her folks were still living in London. US Census showed England. [Whether actually London, who knows, maybe to the uninformed, the use of London covered all of England or England meant London]. Rebecca born ca 1847 (maybe 1843-1848) . My research has included the location in UK of Rebecca Watts(b ca 1847) and her families. Then tracing the families thru 1871 UK census. If she is still with her family, died or has married then she is eliminated because my Rebecca has to be in Michigan by 1870. She probably emigrated from UK ca 1863 - 1867, but as yet I have not located on any ship's lists. She probably married in Illinois ca 1865-1867, but alas the Chicago Fire destroyed those early records. For those having a "Rebecca Watts" in their tree, I have accumulated a lot of documentation that may be of help to you. I know her parents and in some cases her grandparents that may be of help to you. Looking forward to hearing from anyone on or off list for exchange of information and ideas. thank you Don Chinnery Sun City Center FL USA email= myhobbiesATtampabayDOTrrDOTcom skype = Donald Chinnery