I am trying to find where and when Thomas CLARKSON's wife, Catherine BUCK, was born and who her parents were. Any help would be very much appreciated. There is much written about Thomas CLARKSON and his work on the abolition of slavery. His Cambridge record (ex Ancestry) gives his marriage to Catherine, dau. of Robert BUCK, of Newton, Suffolk, Jan. 19, 1796. Other literature gives Catherine's father as William BUCK of Bury St Edmunds. So is it William or Robert? Several authors give Catherine's place of birth as Bury St Edmunds, others give St John's, Florida ! but none gives sources. It is certain that Thomas and Catherine lived at Playford Hall, Suffolk. They are there in the 1841 census and both born out of County which suggests Catherine was not born in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. In the 1851 census Catherine (CLARKSON) was a widow, still living at Playford Hall, aged 77, and born Homerton, Middlesex. This is the best evidence for her year and place of birth so I am looking for Catherine BUCK born ca 1774, Homerton (Hackney).

>> >> To save money Croydon Council is considering closing the main Archives and local studies centre. Check the story at croydonguardian.co.uk You can sign the paper's petition via the "save our heritage" link >> >> Richard Brown >> Bromley, Kent >> UK >> >> Sent from my iPod

> >> >> To save money Croydon Council is considering closing the main Archives and local studies centre. Check the story at croydonguardian.co.uk You can sign the paper's petition via the "save our heritage" link >> >> Richard Brown >> Bromley, Kent >> UK >> >> Sent from my iPod

Caroline Thank you for your advice about the street names.  I had searched directories, but of course being relatively recent directories, I had only found a couple of the streets. Background  follows: 1. Harriet had originally been idenified as LAWSON based on family oral information. 2. In the information provided by a grandchild for her son's death, Harriet's surname was given as COWLE; this was in the 1930's 3. On birth certificates for her children whch I recently obtained, her surname is given as SMITH. 4.  On her daughter Eliza's marriage certificate from 1863 in NSW, there is the endorsement for Harriet's consent being 'given' for the marriage of a minor, as the surviving parent.  This does not of course mean that Harriet was physically present - her consent could have been provided in writing by another means.  I have tended to treat this information as if Harrient were present. 5.  I have not been able to find a record of the mariage of any of Harriet LAWSON/COWLE/SMITH to Henry Sharp that seems relevant, in either UK or NSW for the period 1840 to 1850. 6. I have not been able to find a record of the entry of Harriet SHARP/LAWSON/COWLE/SMITH into NSW that seems relevant, either alone or with children Eliza and Henry. Nor can I find relevant entries for Henry (jnr) or Eliza entering NSW alone, without parent. Search period to 1863. 7.  I have not been able to find an entry for Henry SHARP (snr) into NSW or Victoria that seems relevant to this family. 8.  I have not been able to find a record of death for Henry SHARP in UK or NSW or Victoria that seems relevant to 1863 - but then at this time, I am only reviewing indices, not documents. 9.  These 'entry into NSW' searches have been done mainly thru the NSW bounty assisted and unassisted immigrants site, although I have begun to look at individual shipping websites for this period. 10. I have nto been able to find Harriet SHARP/SMITH/LAWSON/COWLE on the 1841 or 1851 UK census that could be relevant.  I have no reason to suspect she would not be living with the children post 1845 until their departure for NSW. 11. I have searched for Henry Sharp (snr) to 1863 on the UK census, but possibilities are numerous to make any intelligible choice, and none I've  found to date, gave occupation as traveller. 12. In an interview given by Eliza (Harriet's daughter) in 1932 a couple of years before death, Eliza says she came to NSW in 1859, however the ship she identified (the Regina) may not have visited Sydney NSW that year.  I have searched Llyods Register and shipping lists, but still to confirm definitely it did nto visit any Australian port in 1859. I've also searched for the passenger lists for that ship in the 1850's , and cannot identify Harriet, Eliza, nor other members of the family.  Interestingly there is an entry for an earlier voyage of that ship for 3 passengers in steerage, who are unnamed.  According to the brother Henry's death certificate, he at least entered NSW in 1853, at which time he would have been approximately 9 years old. 13.  Reviewing the information given for the birth registrations for several of  her children, and the interview, Eliza was either born in, or lived in Paddington, London; London, Middlesex, or Hammersmith; or Islington. She gave her previous occupation as 'lady's maid', but she would have been quite young to hold down this position given she married in 1863 aged less than 21. 14.  I have recently purchased 2 birth certificates, for each of Henry Cattermole Sharp (born 25 July 1846)  and Eliza Cattermole Sharp (born 18 May 1845) with parents Henry Sharp (commercial traveller) and Harriet, formerly Smith; and am happy I have the correct children. Whilst there is no information in the family lore to suggest 'Cattermole' as relevant to this family, the names of chldren, dates of birth, parents, and father's occupation agree with known family information, both 'anecdotes' and what I have extracted from certificates. (Yes, not totally reliable I know).  The father's occupation has been consistently stated to be 'commercial traveller' or 'traveller'.  15. I obtained a copy of the baptismal certificate for Eliza (baptised 3 August 1845), and in the two certificates (bith and baptismal) her name is given as Eliza (birth) or Harriet (baptismal), but I believe she is one and the same as my Eliza, not twins.  I am checking with surviving former generation relatives to see if there is any suggestion of twins. The baptismal certificate is available on ancestry.com 16. The addresses I gave in my original email, were taken from these three documents. 17.  Eliza was baptised at St James, Pentonville.  Is this now known as St James Clerkenwell??? I am following up on the name of the church.  The birth was registered in the district of St Pancras, sub district Somers Town. Henry (jnr) birth was registered St Pancras, sub district Camden Town.  I'm thinking if I can identify the relevant churches for baptisms, it might be worth an aproach to see if there is a burial record for Henry snr. 18.  My skills haven't allowed me to call up the street addresses in the census for 1841 or 1851 or 1861 but I'm working on finding my way thru these census records, laboriously. 19.  The periods I have been searching are principally 1810 - 1860, particularly in birth, baptism death and marriage to try to locate Henry (snr) and Harriet.  Tried the census for 1841 and 1851 and 1861 but evidently my skills are too minimal to do other than a pure name search.  Searches have been done with all those above, SHARP  SMITH  LAWSON COWLE CATTERMOLE.   Any suggestions, help, positive criticisms gratefully received.   cherrie from oz

>From The Morning Chronicle ( London, England ), Monday, December 2, 1861; Issue 29609. SERIOUS DOG BITE. - On Saturday, Catherine WALLIS, aged twenty-one years, was received in the Charing-cross Hospital, suffering very severely from the effects of the bite of a dog. It would appear that she was walking along the Haymarket, when a dog suddenly flew upon her, and bit her in a shocking manner in the face. She continued in a state of mania for some time after her admission to the hospital, but owing to the exertions of Mr. TRAVERS, the resident medical officer, she is progressing favourably.

>From The Morning Chronicle ( London, England ), Monday, December 2, 1861; Issue 29609. ACCIDENT AT CHARING-CROSS. - On Saturday, a man, named John HOSKINS, aged twenty years, a labourer, was brought into Charing-cross Hospital, having met with very serious injuries under the following circumstances:- He was engaged, it would seem, with several others, in the demolition of three houses adjoining Scotland-yard, when a mass of brickwork and rubbish fell upon him. It was found that his leg was dreadfully fractured, and he was otherwise injured, so that he remains in a precarious condition.

>From The Morning Chronicle ( London, England ), Monday, December 2, 1861; Issue 29609. FATAL FIGHT AT WHITECHAPEL. - VERDICT OF MANSLAUGHTER. On Saturday evening Mr. H. RAFFLES WALTHEW, the deputy coroner for East Middlesex, held an inquest at the London Hospital, on view of the body of William SYLVESTER, aged 39, a cigar maker, who died from injuries received in a fight, under the following circumstances:- The deceased and several companions had been drinking at the White Hart public-house, Hooper-street, Whitechapel, on the night of Wednesday last, when a man named Thomas MABERLY, a gun-lock maker, commenced quarrelling in the tap-room. They fought several rounds, and were seperated by the landlord, but the man MABERLY followed the deceased and attacked him again. He threw the deceased heavily several times upon the floor, and fell upon him with great violence. The latter exclaimed that his leg was broken, and he was removed to the hospital, where it was found that he had received a fracture of the leg. The limb was reduced, but he gradually sunk and died on Friday last. The jury returned a verdict of manslaughter against William MABERLY, for killing and slaying William SYLVESTER.

>From Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury, Saturday, September 24, 1898; pg. 3; Issue 4583. Mrs. HARDING , of 2, Brownlow Mews, Holborn, was admitted to the Royal Free Hospital on Sunday morning suffering from terrible burns through the explosion of a paraffin lamp, which she knocked against the partition in going upstairs. She died yesterday afternoon. Her husband, was also severely burned in endeavouring to extinguish the flames.

1851 Class: HO107; Piece: 1895; Folio: 290; Page: 40; ?Cleave/Cleare/Clease? Houses, Northam, Devon Henry Smith 56 Shipwright Journeyman Cornwall Fowey Hager Smith 51 Shipwrights wife do do Ann Cann 31 Shipwrights daughter do do William Cann 25 Shipwright journeyman Devon Bideford Elizabeth A Cann 1 Devon Northam Charles Gilbert 42 Visitor Mariner Master b Hayle, Cornwall Ellen Gilbert 40 Mariner's wife Glamorgan Pitton Deaths Jun 1852 GILBART Ellen Brentford 3a 47 Anne South Australia Glenys Petry wrote: > Greetings. > Could sks please find Charles GILBART ,1841 1851 please. > Thanks to help some years ago, he is found in 1871 at Mumbles, Oystermouth, > Wales, born c1808, Hayler, Cornwall, occ. retired Master Mariner. He wasn't > found on 1861 census) > > He was married in June Qtr 1859 St Luke Finsbury to Matilda Elizabeth MILLER > daughter of David (but their marriage I can't find on Ancestry index) > .Matilda would have been about 38 when they married and Charles 50. > > The reason I am interested in the earlier census is, a google search of his name > brought up a reference to a marriage In April 1833 at Oystermouth, Charles > Gilbart, esq. to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Mr. John Beynon, of > Pittan, Gower. > And it is this couple I hope can be found in 1841 and 1851. > > Thanks > Glenys >

Thankyou Nivard, Christine and Judy for your very helpful replies. Glenys

Greetings. Could sks please find Charles GILBART ,1841 1851 please. Thanks to help some years ago, he is found in 1871 at Mumbles, Oystermouth, Wales, born c1808, Hayler, Cornwall, occ. retired Master Mariner. He wasn't found on 1861 census) He was married in June Qtr 1859 St Luke Finsbury to Matilda Elizabeth MILLER daughter of David (but their marriage I can't find on Ancestry index) .Matilda would have been about 38 when they married and Charles 50. The reason I am interested in the earlier census is, a google search of his name brought up a reference to a marriage In April 1833 at Oystermouth, Charles Gilbart, esq. to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Mr. John Beynon, of Pittan, Gower. And it is this couple I hope can be found in 1841 and 1851. Thanks Glenys

Hi Glenys Could either of these be your man? 1841 Census - England Name: Charles Galbert Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1806 Gender: Male Where born: Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Wootton Bassett Hundred: Kingsbridge County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Bank Agent Registration district: Cricklade Sub-registration district: Wootton Bassett Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Charles Galbert 35 Eleanor Galbert 30 May Gilbert 6 Martha Gilbert 2 I have looked at the image and it is difficult to read but I do believe it has been a transcription error As you can see by the surnames given. May Gilbert could also be Mary. 1851 Census - England Name: Charles Gilbert Age: 47 Estimated birth year: abt 1804 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Eleanor Gilbert Gender: Male Where born: Collingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Chiddingfold County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Hambledon Sub-registration district: Witley ED, institution, or vessel: 6b Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 70 Household Members: Name Age Charles Gilbert 47 Eleanor Gilbert 43 Francis Williams Gilbert 20 Martha Gilbert 12 Maria Varnes 17 John Combes 20 Regards Lyn -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Glenys Petry Sent: Saturday, 20 November 2010 7:16 PM To: middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [MDX] GILBART 1841 1851 plse Greetings. Could sks please find Charles GILBART ,1841 1851 please. Thanks to help some years ago, he is found in 1871 at Mumbles, Oystermouth, Wales, born c1808, Hayler, Cornwall, occ. retired Master Mariner. He wasn't found on 1861 census) He was married in June Qtr 1859 St Luke Finsbury to Matilda Elizabeth MILLER daughter of David (but their marriage I can't find on Ancestry index) .Matilda would have been about 38 when they married and Charles 50. The reason I am interested in the earlier census is, a google search of his name brought up a reference to a marriage In April 1833 at Oystermouth, Charles Gilbart, esq. to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Mr. John Beynon, of Pittan, Gower. And it is this couple I hope can be found in 1841 and 1851. Thanks Glenys ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. List Admin can be contacted at: Middlesex_County_UK-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Cherrie Charlotte Street, Caledonian Road no longer exists. It ran east from Caledonian Road in Islington, and was roughly where Carnegie Street is now. You can find it on the 1868 map from David Hale's magnificent collection (http://london1868.com/) by going to the square labelled "Lower Holloway, Barnsbury & Islington". Drummond Street still exists (in part at least), running eastwards from Hampstead Road, just north of Euston Road. It used to continue all the way past Euston Station and across Seymour Street (now Eversholt Street). Go to the square marked "Somerstown and British Museum" to find it on the above map. Lower Edmund Street is no more, and was pulled down around 1851 to make way for King's Cross Station. Bury Street is now Bury Place. These would all have been private addresses. Lying in hospitals at that date were very few and far between - the vast majority of births were at home. You say that the father "reputedly died". Is this because Harriet is described as a widow later on? Or was he described as deceased on a child's marriage certificate? London burials are notoriously tricky to find, particularly around the period in question, and searching for one is rarely a short cut to finding a death registration. Where did your original information about Harriet's name, and the new information that it was not LAWSON but SMITH come from? Perhaps if you could let us have a bit more information, such as the names and dates you have for the children and later census information, we could try and help you further. Best wishes Caroline > > I am seeking information for the following addresses, which I have > gathered from > birth and baptismal records: > a)    32 Charlotte Street, Caledonian > b)    133 Drummond Street > c)    47 Lower Edmund Street > d)    2 Berry Street, Bloomsbury Square. > > In respect of (d), I have located a Bury Street near Bloomsbury > Square.  All > addresses are in London. > > The time period for the births/baptisms is 1843 to 1846.  Does anyone > know if > there were laying-in hospitals at these addresses or would they have > been > residential?? > > Also as the father reputedly died in the next few years after these > births, can > you make suggestions as to what church or cemetery would be in the > proximity of > these addresses? > > > I have been searching for information on Henry Sharp for years, the > reputed > father of Eliza and Henry jnr, husband of Harriet.  I have recently > obtained > information that Harriet's last name prior to marriage was Smith and > not Lawson > as I've previously believed.  None of Harriet, Henry or children appear > on the > 1851 census that I can find. I cannot find a marriage record for Henry > Sharp and > Harriet Smith which could be related to this couple. > > Thank you to everyone who can offer advice. > Cherrie from Oz >

Glenys, The 1859 marriage may have been in a Catholic church (judging by the names of the other couple listed on the same index page), or possibly in a register office. That would explain why it's not found on Ancestry's database, which is derived only from parish registers held at LMA/Guildhall. Your best course will be to order the marriage certificate from the GRO in the usual way. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:middlesex_county_uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Glenys Petry Could sks please find Charles GILBART ,1841 1851 please. Thanks to help some years ago, he is found in 1871 at Mumbles, Oystermouth, Wales, born c1808, Hayler, Cornwall, occ. retired Master Mariner. He wasn't found on 1861 census) He was married in June Qtr 1859 St Luke Finsbury to Matilda Elizabeth MILLER daughter of David (but their marriage I can't find on Ancestry index) .Matilda would have been about 38 when they married and Charles 50. The reason I am interested in the earlier census is, a google search of his name brought up a reference to a marriage In April 1833 at Oystermouth, Charles Gilbart, esq. to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Mr. John Beynon, of Pittan, Gower. And it is this couple I hope can be found in 1841 and 1851.

Hi Glenys 1851 Name: Charles Gilbert Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1809 Relation: Visitor Gender: Male Where born: Hayle, Cornwall, England Civil Parish: Northam County/Island: Devon Country: England Registration district: Bideford Sub-registration district: Bideford ED, institution, or vessel: 1d Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 159 Household Members: Name Age Henry Smith 56 Hager Smith 51 Ann Cann 31 William Cann 25 Elizabeth A Cann 1 Charles Gilbert 42 mariner master Hayle Cornwall Ellen Gilbert 40 mariners wife Pilton Glamorgan HO107; Piece: 1895; Folio: 290; Page: 40; GSU roll: 221046. Charles birthplace is *Hayle* Cornwall (not Hayler) and the marriage place you mention is more likely Pitton near Rhossili on the Gower or Pilton Green Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Greetings. > Could sks please find Charles GILBART ,1841 1851 please. > Thanks to help some years ago, he is found in 1871 at Mumbles, > Oystermouth, > Wales, born c1808, Hayler, Cornwall, occ. retired Master Mariner. He > wasn't > found on 1861 census) > > He was married in June Qtr 1859 St Luke Finsbury to Matilda Elizabeth > MILLER > daughter of David (but their marriage I can't find on Ancestry index) > .Matilda would have been about 38 when they married and Charles 50. > > The reason I am interested in the earlier census is, a google search of > his name > brought up a reference to a marriage In April 1833 at Oystermouth, Charles > Gilbart, esq. to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Mr. John Beynon, > of > Pittan, Gower. > And it is this couple I hope can be found in 1841 and 1851. > > Thanks > Glenys

Hi Listers, Are their any listers researching this family? They were in Harefield in 1841 Census. James was a builder. James died between 1841 & 1851, location and date unknown. Sarah died December 1863 and is buried at Bethnel Green with her daughter, son-in-law and 3 grandsons. Any one researching this family, please contact me, especially any descendants of Thomas, who was listed as a 15 y o boy in 1841. Thank you everyone. Anne

>From The Lancaster Gazette and General Advertiser for Lancashire, Westmorland, and Yorkshire, Wednesday, March 07, 1894; Issue 6466. FATAL SHOOTING ACCIDENT ON HACKNEY MARSHES. A tragic occurrence happened on Hackney Marshes about mid-day on Sunday. It appears that a young man named FISHER and some companions were out bird shooting on Hackney Marshes. When near a place known as "Stevens' Shoot," near the White House, the gun carried by a man named TOLLIDAY suddenly went off, with the result that the top of FISHER's head was completely shattered. Death was instantaneous. The ambulance was procured, and the body conveyed to Hackney Mortuary, where it was afterwards identified as that of Christopher FISHER, aged 23, late of Prince Edward Road, Hackney-wick. The affair is supposed to be a pure accident. No ill-feeling existed between the men, who were both employed at Ingram's India-rubber Factory, Hackney-wick. The death of Christopher William FISHER, aged 23, was recorded in Reg. Dist. HACKNEY , March Qtr. 1894 1b 372. One the 1891 census he was aged 20, living at 82, Windsor Road, Homerton, Hackney, with wife Selenia aged 19, daughter Selenia aged 2 years, & son Christopher aged 4 months. The marriage was probably Reg. Dist. Bethnal Green, Sept. Qtr. 1889 1c 530 Christopher FISHER & Selina Mary A BYNE. Their daughter Selenia ( Lena in 1911 ) probably married Benjamin MILLER Reg.Dist. Hackney 1b 864 Dec. Qtr 1910. This is NOT connected to our research. Mick & Norma Coomber

Hello listers, I would like to say that I have been on this list from time to time for the past 6/7 yrs. and that through this time a lot of you have been oh so helpful in helping me find my ancestors. A Great Big Thankyou from the bottom of my heart for all of your help. Sharon

I am seeking information for the following addresses, which I have gathered from birth and baptismal records: a)    32 Charlotte Street, Caledonian b)    133 Drummond Street c)    47 Lower Edmund Street d)    2 Berry Street, Bloomsbury Square. In respect of (d), I have located a Bury Street near Bloomsbury Square.  All addresses are in London. The time period for the births/baptisms is 1843 to 1846.  Does anyone know if there were laying-in hospitals at these addresses or would they have been residential?? Also as the father reputedly died in the next few years after these births, can you make suggestions as to what church or cemetery would be in the proximity of these addresses?  I have been searching for information on Henry Sharp for years, the reputed father of Eliza and Henry jnr, husband of Harriet.  I have recently obtained information that Harriet's last name prior to marriage was Smith and not Lawson as I've previously believed.  None of Harriet, Henry or children appear on the 1851 census that I can find. I cannot find a marriage record for Henry Sharp and Harriet Smith which could be related to this couple. Thank you to everyone who can offer advice. Cherrie from Oz

Martin, I see your Frank George DORAN migrated to Melbourne Victoria in 1924, have you located an index reference for this man's death registration? If he died in Victoria it is possible to search for the reference (there's a small charge for the results in that state. If the information contained is the same as on Queensland certificates then this man's parents may be listed on the index, as well as on his marriages. check out http://www.coraweb.com.au/bdmau.htm also check this out http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=A&VeteranID=458493 his ww2 service record may contain details of his parents...this shows his next of kin as Florence Doran. hope this helps cheers Bob in Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin & Glenys Bishop" <mandgtb@virginmedia.com> To: <MIDDLESEX_COUNTY_UK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: [MDX] Frank George DORAN born Marylebone Qtr 3 1910. > Hello > > I am a new subscriber to this list. I am researching the DORAN family > from > Middlesex, descending from George William DORAN (born 1860 Kilburn) and > Mary > Ann Maria LANE (born 1863 Marylebone), for my uncle in Australia. The > person in question is shown in the 1911 census for George William DORAN > as > his grandson aged 7 months born in Marylebone, London. I have traced his > emigration to Australia in November 1924 and know of his two marriages > there. However I have hit a brick wall in trying to find out who his > parents are. The only likely candidate begs the indelicate question as to > whether he was born illegitimately to Rose Violet DORAN also listed on the > 1911 census, daughter aged 20. Does anyone have any further information > about Frank George? > > My other surname interests are BISHOP (Margate, Kent), HOLDEN (Margate, > Kent), WILSON (Halifax, Yorkshire), BIRCHENALL (Stockport, Cheshire) and > JACKSON (Salford, Manchester). > > Best regards > > Martin Bishop (Chorley, Lancashire) > > >