Hi again Valerie One further snippet but perhaps one you didn't want :-( The Times, Monday, Oct 20, 1834; pg. 4; Issue 15613; col B Police. Category: Law Police Marlborough street On Saturday Gibbon Fitzgibbon an Irishman, was brought before Mr Conant by the officers of the Mendlefty? Society, on suspicion of being an imposter, and with having levied contributions by begging letters on a great number of the nobility and gentry. There are more than one Gibbon FITZGIBBON around though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > On 28/07/2012 23:42, Valerie B Garton wrote: >> I am new to this mailing list so I hope my message is OK. >> >> BACKGROUND >> >> Gibbon FITZGIBBON m Catherine HURLEY and lived at Barron 1817, Barrack >> Street 1819-1821 in Clonakilty and Castle Freke 1827 in Cork, Ireland >> before >> taking his family to England abt 1828. >> I have found that Edmond, the son, was " educated in London "; " went to >> London when he was five "; " the family moved to England " Therefore the

Hi Valerie His Army service records can be ordered from the National Archives (just follow the prompts) its not on findmypast From the 19th Century Newspapers Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries . The Standard (London, England), Friday, November 07, 1856; Issue 10058. Category: Birth, death, marriage notices On the 4th inst, at Carshalton, Surrey, in his 80th year, Gibbon Carew Fitzgibbon, Esq. ============================ Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries . Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Thursday, November 13, 1856; Issue N/A. Category: Birth, death, marriage notices November 4, at Carshalton, Surrey, aged 80years, Gibbon C Fitzgibbon, Esq. formerley of Hospital, county Limerick. ============================ From Ancestry UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 about Gibbon Fitzgibbon Name: Gibbon Fitzgibbon Campaign or Service: Napoleonic Wars Service Date: 1793-1815 Service Location: Europe Regiment or Unit Name: 27th Regiment of Foot Troop or Company = Capt BEVAN Clasp = Maida http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Maida UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 about Gibbon Fitzgibbon Name: Gibbon Fitzgibbon Campaign or Service: Egypt Service Date: 1801 Service Location: Egypt Regiment or Unit Name: 27th Regiment of Foot Can't see a burial for him or an obvious death for Mary or Margaret Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/07/2012 23:42, Valerie B Garton wrote: > I am new to this mailing list so I hope my message is OK. > > BACKGROUND > > Gibbon FITZGIBBON m Catherine HURLEY and lived at Barron 1817, Barrack > Street 1819-1821 in Clonakilty and Castle Freke 1827 in Cork, Ireland before > taking his family to England abt 1828. > I have found that Edmond, the son, was " educated in London "; " went to > London when he was five "; " the family moved to England " Therefore the > family likely moved to England in 1828 when Edmond was five. This > information was found in Australian newspapers as Edmond came to Victoria in > September 1852 - gold rushes. > > This was an educated family as Edmond was awarded the Companion of the Order > of St. Michael and St. George for his services to the Community of > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. > > 1841 Census England, Middlesex, St Giles in the Fields, Tower Street > Gibbon Fitzgibbon General Dealer b Ireland age 60 > Edmund Fitzgibbon clerk b Ireland age 15 > Margt Fitzgibbon General Dealer b Ireland age 40 > Margt Fitzgibbon b Ireland age 14 [Edmund's sister] > [As yet I do not know who the Margaret age 40 is as Gibbon was married to > Catherine HURLEY]

Jeannette I appreciate your input on the French kids but as most were born pre civil registration and I will never know who the kids were or place of birtht, They could have been born anywhere in United Kingdom, not just London as the father being a Tailor he must have moved around along with his spouse and kids Checked Free BMD indexes to the point I do not know. Sure there are some familiar names in the Deaths but no ages shown which is a pity Pancras covers a fair bit of ground and it does contain Regents Park, which to me is a clue, but I stll do not know anymore today than 20 year ago, Just the 1841 Census shows some of the kids and the 1851 no kids at all to me that is surprising. But I shall keep on looking and perhaps one day the family might appear or, they could be there and I just don't know it, Thanks again Elaine On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 9:30 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Elaine have you tried looking for the children's births on FreeBMD? > > Jeanette > > Quoting Elaine Jefferson <[email protected]>: > > > Hi once again and I thi k I really need some help her if anyone can help > > I have taken up my neighbours tree after 20 year hiatus after she want3ed > > to know some small details that could only be found her in melbourne OZ > re > > her families > > Her main family is FRENCH and gee is it a hard nut to crack!! The other > are > > ok as Ancestry has a heap of them which helps but FRENCH?? Forget it > > Here is what we know or don't know.. > > My neighbour enlisted a professional researcher 20 year ago to get some > > info which somewhat helped but made the puzzle even worse!! > > He applied for a death certifcate in London for John FRENCH who died 1848 > > which is the ocrrect guy and his occupation was that of TAILOR aged 45 > > years He died or rather his death was recorded 21 Feb 1848 at 5 GLOUSTER > > PLACE REGENTS PARK. and we have no idea who the informant was. > > > > Transgressing... > > The 1841 Census shows John French and his wife Ann living HERTFORD St > > Borough Marylebone and in the house were > > John French 41y Tailor and his wife Ann 40y plus 3 kids Maria 7, Henry > > 10y, James 10y possibly twins as there are twins in my neighbours family > > John and Ann were not of this parish but the kids were!! > > Then the 1851 Census shows Ann French as widow born Bristol plus her > niece > > who was born Dorset. No signs of the kids !! > > > > Ann French nee Cruse married John French St Clement Danes London 1832 and > > both just said both of this parish. > > Ann French or Cruse was the daughter of Bartholomew Cruse that I have had > > help with or I would be still floundering but this John French?? there is > > no way he will come out of the closet to tell me where he was born > > Ann and her surviving son Thomas came to Melbourne 1852 then married > again > > and on her marriage certificate she stated she had 8 kids dec!! This is > the > > where the puzzle begins > > Who were the kids and where were they born . > > I have tried Ancestry, Find my Past, The Genealogist ( with help) still > > nothing I haunt Ancestry in hopes > > > > Ann French nee Cruse died in Sydney and her son Thomas was the informant > > and he too died in Sydney and after looking at his kids names nothing > seems > > to jump out at me for hints, clues for his siblings names etc > > > > Thomas French son of John and Ann was born January 9 1844 5 Gloucester > > place London and his father stated his occupation was that of Tailor > > Is it possible and I know anything is possible, that the kids were born > in > > this area and is so how or where are these registers > > > > One would think Thomas French would appear in the 1851 Census as part of > > the house hold but he didn't I have tried using Ancestry as in inputting > > Thomas French as pupil or even nephew had a hit with that, but if that is > > so, who the couple are don't know. > > > > This family of French is really a puzzle and we want to try and solve it > > and would love to know where this John French was born, Maybe London but > > not knowing his parenatge certainly doesn't help > > > > Many thanks for reading this long winded plea, but I am out of ideas > > > > Elaine in wet Melbourne Oz > > ************************************** > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > > superfluous old messages in replies. > > > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > > CAPITAL letters** > > > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Anne Apart from the IGI I do not know of any online Both are in Berkshire so I would suggest posting on the Berkshire list, Berkshire has its own difficulties as very little is available when compared to other Counties You might like to check out http://www.archersoftware.co.uk/igi/index.htm For batch numbers, for Windsor, look for New Windsor, Old Windsor & Windsor Berks FHS do a burial index but don't know what its coverage is or cost Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/07/2012 14:23, Anne Harse wrote: > Can you tell me if any parish records in Windsor are on line please? > particularly St. John the Baptist and also All Saints in Faringdon? > The dates I am interested in are between 1720 to about 1840 and > which site . Thanks . Anne Harse

Hello ­ I am returning again to my brick wall having taken a break and followed my maternal ancestry. I have had some excellent help in the past from members of the group, special thanks to Nivard, but when I last tried to see if anyone couls assist with this problem no one could. I have found out a little more about the Robert MACQUEEN that I am stuck at and also have made contact with two 4th cousins who share the same GGGGrandfather who is the Robert MACQUEEN that I am struggling to find much about. What I do know is that he married a Sarah Mitchell at St Marylebone on 17 February 1823 and he was shown as a widower. The difficulty starts with the fact that Robert James MACQUEEN his son and my GGGrandfather was born on 21 November 1818 and in the parish register of St Marylebone is shown as being baptised in 17 December 1819 with father as Robert MACQUEEN and mother as Sarah ­ no maiden name shown. As these two records are at the same church and with same name parents I assume they are the same people. So either Robert James MACQUEEN was born out of wedlock, Robert his father was married to a Sarah who died then he married another Sarah or there was some other reason for the later marriage. Any views on that would be very welcome. I cannot find any previous record of either Robert or Sarah prior to the baptism registration and no sign of them in the 1841 census. MY other question is about the Westminster archives. I have seen very little reference to them in this list and have never visited myself, I have been to the London Metropolitan Archives and found a little, Not much from the Westminster Archives seems to be appearing on the web, is that because there is little there which isn't elsewhere or have they arrangements with one site? What are they like to visit and could there be information held there that might help me. Thank you for reading all this! I hope some how to move on and make a link to Scvotland because at present I appear to be a part of the london cln MacQueen!! Regards to all Bob

Valerie, a Chelsea Pensioner is someone who has served in the Army and is now retired. I'm sure there must be records for them. Jeanette Quoting Valerie B Garton <[email protected]>: > I am new to this mailing list so I hope my message is OK. > > BACKGROUND > > Gibbon FITZGIBBON m Catherine HURLEY and lived at Barron 1817, Barrack > Street 1819-1821 in Clonakilty and Castle Freke 1827 in Cork, Ireland before > taking his family to England abt 1828. > I have found that Edmond, the son, was " educated in London "; " went to > London when he was five "; " the family moved to England " Therefore the > family likely moved to England in 1828 when Edmond was five. This > information was found in Australian newspapers as Edmond came to Victoria in > September 1852 - gold rushes. > > This was an educated family as Edmond was awarded the Companion of the Order > of St. Michael and St. George for his services to the Community of > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. > > 1841 Census England, Middlesex, St Giles in the Fields, Tower Street > Gibbon Fitzgibbon General Dealer b Ireland age 60 > Edmund Fitzgibbon clerk b Ireland age 15 > Margt Fitzgibbon General Dealer b Ireland age 40 > Margt Fitzgibbon b Ireland age 14 [Edmund's sister] > [As yet I do not know who the Margaret age 40 is as Gibbon was married to > Catherine HURLEY] > > Marriage > I have found a marriage of Margaret HURLEY to Gibbon FITZGIBBON at St Anne's > Soho 1835 - perhaps Catherine had died and Gibbon married her sister. There > is no death certificate for her as this is pre 1837 Registration. I have not > found her death. > > 1851 Census Middlesex St Giles in the Fields Tower Street > Gibbon Fitzgibbon head age 77 Chelsea Out Pensioner b Ireland > Mary FITZGIBBON wife age 50 Domestic b Ireland > Does this information lead me an further - Chelsea Out Patient ????? > > 1851 Census Carshaltown, Surrey > FITZGIBBON Margaret b abt 1829 IRL sister Carshalton Surrey > HASSELL Elennor T b abt 1822 IRL wife Carshalton, Surrey > HASSELL Thomas b abt 1803 Carshalton, Surrey, England, head, Carshalton, > Surrey > Margaret & Ellen are Gibbon's daughters > > 1856 death Gibbon Carew FITZGIBBON Dec Q Epsom Surrey Vol 2a > I have this certificate: 4 Nov 1856 Carshalton male age 79 gentleman > Dysentery & bronchitis Mary WRIGHT present at death > > DEATH: On the 4th inst., at Carshalton, Surrey, in his 79th year, Gibbon > Carew FitzGibbon, youngest son of Thomas FitzGibbon, Esq., of Hospital, > County Limerick.- Cork Newspaper > > QUESTION: > How can I find out more about Gibbon FITZGIBBON ? Where is he buried, what > happened to his 2 wives. I cannot find Margaret/Mary in the 1861 census. > > > Cheers from Valerie in sunny Sydney > > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Elaine have you tried looking for the children's births on FreeBMD? Jeanette Quoting Elaine Jefferson <[email protected]>: > Hi once again and I thi k I really need some help her if anyone can help > I have taken up my neighbours tree after 20 year hiatus after she want3ed > to know some small details that could only be found her in melbourne OZ re > her families > Her main family is FRENCH and gee is it a hard nut to crack!! The other are > ok as Ancestry has a heap of them which helps but FRENCH?? Forget it > Here is what we know or don't know.. > My neighbour enlisted a professional researcher 20 year ago to get some > info which somewhat helped but made the puzzle even worse!! > He applied for a death certifcate in London for John FRENCH who died 1848 > which is the ocrrect guy and his occupation was that of TAILOR aged 45 > years He died or rather his death was recorded 21 Feb 1848 at 5 GLOUSTER > PLACE REGENTS PARK. and we have no idea who the informant was. > > Transgressing... > The 1841 Census shows John French and his wife Ann living HERTFORD St > Borough Marylebone and in the house were > John French 41y Tailor and his wife Ann 40y plus 3 kids Maria 7, Henry > 10y, James 10y possibly twins as there are twins in my neighbours family > John and Ann were not of this parish but the kids were!! > Then the 1851 Census shows Ann French as widow born Bristol plus her niece > who was born Dorset. No signs of the kids !! > > Ann French nee Cruse married John French St Clement Danes London 1832 and > both just said both of this parish. > Ann French or Cruse was the daughter of Bartholomew Cruse that I have had > help with or I would be still floundering but this John French?? there is > no way he will come out of the closet to tell me where he was born > Ann and her surviving son Thomas came to Melbourne 1852 then married again > and on her marriage certificate she stated she had 8 kids dec!! This is the > where the puzzle begins > Who were the kids and where were they born . > I have tried Ancestry, Find my Past, The Genealogist ( with help) still > nothing I haunt Ancestry in hopes > > Ann French nee Cruse died in Sydney and her son Thomas was the informant > and he too died in Sydney and after looking at his kids names nothing seems > to jump out at me for hints, clues for his siblings names etc > > Thomas French son of John and Ann was born January 9 1844 5 Gloucester > place London and his father stated his occupation was that of Tailor > Is it possible and I know anything is possible, that the kids were born in > this area and is so how or where are these registers > > One would think Thomas French would appear in the 1851 Census as part of > the house hold but he didn't I have tried using Ancestry as in inputting > Thomas French as pupil or even nephew had a hit with that, but if that is > so, who the couple are don't know. > > This family of French is really a puzzle and we want to try and solve it > and would love to know where this John French was born, Maybe London but > not knowing his parenatge certainly doesn't help > > Many thanks for reading this long winded plea, but I am out of ideas > > Elaine in wet Melbourne Oz > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

. > > The workhouse - one can only imagine! However, a lot of attitudes to the workhouse are based on Dickens, a very unreliable reporter. He was a middle class boy suddenly dumped in a workhouse for a very short time, because his father was an idle drunk (think Micawber). The culture shock stayed with him. To the average poor person admitted as a last resort. the workhouse meant a roof over one's head instead of a corner of the street, a dry habitation rather than damp, mouldering cellar or rain coming through the attic ceiling, regular meals of reasonable amount even if dull, freedom from battering or exploitation by drunken parents, basic education for all and a chance to learn a simple trade for children. A lot of people anyway were using a workhouse just for its infirmary facilities, if they could not get a letter to admit them to a hospital in time. True, once the inmate was warm, dry and stronger, he might start fretting for freedom, a luxury which just mean pain and grief for the really poor. Most workhouse authorities were only too pleased if people left and got a job - saved the Union money. > EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

re you getting your figures regarding the number of Parishioners > per Parish? > > It seems very underestimated > > Do you have some examples or sources ? Try the statistical analysis of census returns (numerous large libraries have these at least for their own county. Summaries of population tables are also published in Victoria County Histories, where these exist. And yes, villages with 100, 150. 200 'souls' were not uncommon. Most clergy were pretty nosy about the existence and goings on of their parishioners, even those who never darkened the door of a church. Local vicars either went themselves or tended to send their womenfolk round nosing out back sliders. Although commuting has dulled the edge of village gossip, you still get the idle folk who make it their business to spy on and report everything. However, my son says there is nothing local which quite matches the vigour and viciousness of gossip in blocks of mansion flats in Kensington! EVE : >(Paul's comment) > > Not stretching at all. With a parish of, say, 200 souls (and many > > rural parishes were smaller) Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

Elaine Jefferson wrote: > I appreciate your input on the French kids but as most were born pre civil > registration and I will never know who the kids were or place of birtht, > They could have been born anywhere in United Kingdom, not just London as > the father being a Tailor he must have moved around along with his spouse > and kids This so rings a bell with me!! :)) My maternal great great grandfather's brother was also a tailor who apparently never married. He turns up in the 1901 census with a grandson and a wife and in the 1911 with another grandson and claiming *15* children; yet in no census did he have a single child with him let alone up to any up to that many! It turned out Great Great Uncle Alex had got friendly with his brother's next door neighbour's wife and had run off with her and all the children were HERS, not his at all. > Checked Free BMD indexes to the point I do not know. Sure there are some > familiar names in the Deaths but no ages shown which is a pity Pancras > covers a fair bit of ground and it does contain Regents Park, which to me > is a clue, but I stll do not know anymore today than 20 year ago, Just the > 1841 Census shows some of the kids and the 1851 no kids at all to me that > is surprising. But I shall keep on looking and perhaps one day the family > might appear or, they could be there and I just don't know it, Have you tried www.freereg.org.uk ? They are part of FreeUK to which FreeBMD and FreeCen also belong. What about the new FamilySearch and also Ancestry's parish registers? FindMyPast has a growing number of parish registers for Westminster and Ancestry are continuing to index the registers they've digitised for London. Don't forget that as the children got old enough to work they would have been sent out to work as domestic servants or been apprenticed. Some could have been visiting relatives at the time of the census. You can find out whether any of those who died before 1866 are of the family in question by ordering the certificates *without* the reference and checking the box to say you don't have it. This will allow you to add reference checking points. If it matches, then you'll get the cert. If it doesn't, you'll get a full refund. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

> They could have been born anywhere in United Kingdom, not just London as > the father being a Tailor he must have moved around along with his spouse > and kids There is a bit of a problem here. Either there are two John frebnches who were tailor, or there is an identitiy problem In 1851 John French, tailor is very much alive, 46 journeyman tailor, born Axminster, Devon wife Ann 50 b Dover Kent son Henry, 21 Journeyman tailor b St James Westminster nephew Thomas, 21 journeyman plasterer b Axminster girl servant aged 10 34 Swinton St Henry, variously giving his birthplace as St Pancras and Clerkenwell, become a fully fledged tailor, marries (twice) and has children Elizabeth and Charles. The layout of the family in 1841 suggests that James aged (10-14) is not necessary a child of the couple, but possibly a nephew. It rather deopends whether you are looking for the Ann you have found in 1851 or that John, tailor, with a wife Ann. They could as well be the couple at Swinton St. The John dying in Gloucester Placer ciould be a different john. I sdo sympathise - the place is cluttered with john Frenches. EVE >> > > One would think Thomas French would appear in the 1851 Census as part of > > > the house hold There is a Thomas French, 8, nephew of Richard Bend 38 coal merchant b Yorks, and Harriet 41 (??47) b Herts in Arthur St, Westminster in 1851. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

Hello Valerie Is there a connection between the Fitzgibbon and CAREW Families? I noticed the CAREW name in your post, because they had large land holdings in the Beddington /Carshalton area for centuries. If it was a family name this maybe worth investigating. I have several books about the area but FITZGIBBON is not mentioned in any index. Best of luck Sheila NSW

I guess that will make things easier for genealogists in the future. I am a marriage celebrant in Australia (and Yes , people do still get married. just not always before they have their children and certainly not before living together for a while) and we have to verify everything, including seeing a copy of not only the birth certificate but also a photo id to make sure the person in front of us is who they say they are! cheers Sheila As I frequently point out to anyone prepared to listen to me drone on about Genealogy, and those caught unawares with no easy means of escape. Nobody has proof of their ancestry even back to 1837 and regardless of what certificates and parish register copies that have obtained. What they have proof of is what peole have told registrars over the ensuing tje period since no registrar was required to verify in any way the facts presented them. Simply to record what the "Informant" told them and who the "Informant" said they were.

I see that someone found your family for you. Have to tell you I didn't get a chance to search further because in searching for your family I found a clue that sent me searching for info on my family and ended up answering a lot of questions I had. Karma! I have a subscription to genes reunited which has BDM records and the censuses from 1841-1911 so if you need more help just ask. I'm still learning but hopefully I can help cheers Sheila -----Original Message----- From: mvs Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 10:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MDX] COLES - KINSHELA Hello Sheila Thank you for your help. The workhouse - one can only imagine! Very much appreciated Marcelle Western Australia ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Valerie B Garton wrote: > > QUESTION: > How can I find out more about Gibbon FITZGIBBON ? Where is he buried, what > happened to his 2 wives. I cannot find Margaret/Mary in the 1861 census. From the National Archives catalogue WO 119/22 A 5939 - A 6301 GIBBON FITZGIBBON. Born HOSPITAL, Limerick. Served in 27th Foot Regiment; 12th Royal Veteran Battalion. Discharged aged 40. Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge. Kilmainham Reference: A6148. Covering dates 1800-1814 Held by The National Archives, Kew Legal status Public Record(s) Language English As he was a Chelsea Pensioner, his records should be on Findmypast. There should be a death date. I've just searched their military records and there seem to be a few relevant results. Anne South Australia

Seemark wrote: > Thanks Charani, I appreciate your input YW :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Thanks Charani, I appreciate your input Cyndi in Leighton Buzzard, Beds UK So much to learn, so little time Not Ann Obviously) but I am a list admin :)) This is what Rootsweb say: <quote> Don't include identifiable information about living people without their direct consent, or, in the case of minors, the consent of their parent or guardian. This includes (but is not limited to) a person's full name, location or contact information. </quote> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/rootsweb/community_guidelines.html On my lists I don't generally allow anything post WWI but Ann will let you know what her cut off date is.

Hi Nivard, When I write my earlier message re my grandparents marrying in Stratford and giving an address there I was trying to save my grandparents blushes. Unable to find any sign of the road given on the marriage certificate of my grandparents several years ago. I contacted Newham Borough Council to ask if they could pinpoint where the road was or had been in the past. They came back and said to their knowledge no such road name had ever existed in the boroughs of what was East Ham, West Ham & Stratford, which now make up the London Borough of Newham. Not only did my grandparents give an address of convenience in the parish but they made up an address. My grandmother, I believe, was brought up in the Methodist church and my grandfather was baptised CofE. Maybe neither of them were bothered about lying to the vicar about whether they were of the parish, they just wanted to marry before my grandfather sailed off again I suppose. There is a family story that my grandmother stowed away on my grandfather's ship, I don't know if this was before or after their marriage. It could have been prior to their marriage and she could have stowed away when his ship was sailing from Hartlepool down to London and they married there before he sailed off elsewhere. Either that or, as I said before grandma, went down to Stratford to meet up with grandfather when he returned from a voyage. Maybe she went on a voyage with him after their marriage. I will never know but there must be a grain of truth in this family tale, there usually is something of the truth in these stories. I don't think grandfather's family approved of my grandmother though I don't know why, except they were middle class and she was working class. This might be why they married 300 miles away from their home town and their respective families. After they married they continued to live in Hartlepool, grandfather continued working as a seagoing 1st class engineer until his death. Regards Jenny DeAngelis -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MDX] Qualifying for "Of this Parish" Hi Jenny I have often seen mention of the leaving of clothes or a suitcase for three weeks in a Parish to qualify for "of this Parish" My question would be, how do they know? As the Vicar or Registrar was not looking for an excuse *not* to marry a couple, I would have thought the mere statement that they were of this Parish would be enough, I do not see either a Vicar or registrar going around knocking on doors to try and prove the couple were telling the truth, neither would know everyone on their patch In the same way, no proof of age was asked for neither was proof of the fathers name, occupation or if alive or dead As there is no record kept of the seemingly mythical suitcase I am more inclined to believe they simply made the statement and it was accepted Another reason they may have married so far from home, could be that they could not marry at a home Parish, either because they did not have both parents blessing or some other reason Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/07/2012 18:34, Jenny De Angelis wrote: > My Grandparents married in Stratford East London, a short walk from where > the Olympics are being held at the moment, but they both lived in > Hartlepool County Durham in the North East of England. My grandfather was > a > merchant seaman and must have been in the London Docks and grandma went > down > to marry there. They gave an address in the Stratford area and said they > were both of that parish but maybe my grandfather had arrived the required > 3 > weeks beforehand and took up lodgings there in order that they could marry > in the parish. Either that or my grandma moved down to Stratford to lodge > for that period of time until granddad returned from his voyage and they > could marry. > > I have also been told that all that would be required in order for someone > to say they were of the parish in which they wanted to marry, was to leave > a > suitcase of clothes in a house in that parish for the required 3 weeks or > so, they didn't necessarily have to live there. > > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis

Hi Paul Where are you getting your figures regarding the number of Parishioners per Parish? It seems very underestimated Do you have some examples or sources ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 29/07/2012 09:48, Paul Prescott wrote: > Not stretching at all. With a parish of, say, 200 souls (and many > rural parishes were smaller) grouped into, say, 40 families I'm quite > sure that everyone would know everyone. Bear in mind that most of > those 200 would spend most of their lives in the parish, all day every > day. Quite different from 21st century villages. > > When I was at secondary school there were 100 people in my year group, > and we only spent 7 hours a day there 5 days a week from age 11. But > I can confidently say everyone knew everyone very quickly. > > Best wishes > > Paul

Paul Prescott wrote: > Not stretching at all. With a parish of, say, 200 souls (and many > rural parishes were smaller) grouped into, say, 40 families I'm quite > sure that everyone would know everyone. Bear in mind that most of > those 200 would spend most of their lives in the parish, all day every > day. Quite different from 21st century villages. Although I agree with what Nirvard says with regard to built up areas, in villages particularly parishioners would not only have known one another (and their business), many, if not most, of them would have been related to one another through marriage. It was the interconnections between families in Walton that lead to my becoming an OPC. I haven't worked out yet the percentage of families in the village who were related to one another. At the moment it appears most of them were. At least one rector did take a close interest in his flock. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk