Would like to know if England kept records of births or if they were baptisms kept instead? John Hyland born 1855 To Thomas and Mary (Dwyer) Hyland and Margaret born 1859 to Thomas and Mary (Dwyer) Hyland. Thanks so much for your input.

There was one Bridget Hyland on Google that Married a Malachy Tully but she was born after this Bridget Hyland so that was a mistake on my part. The Bridget that married Malachy TULLY was born 1845, again my apologies my mistake. I misread the information. She did have 2 children by the same name not mine though

Hi, The following might be helpful - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ At 01:43 PM 05/08/2012, you wrote: >Would like to know if England kept records of births or if they were >baptisms kept instead? John Hyland born 1855 To Thomas and Mary (Dwyer) >Hyland and Margaret born 1859 to >Thomas and Mary (Dwyer) Hyland. Thanks so much for your input. >************************************** >Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM >AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > >**MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES >in CAPITAL letters** > >List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The 1861 census shows John Hyland and family living in Chelsea. The household contains, John Hyland aged 27 born Ireland, wife Mary aged 26, Bridget his unmarried sister aged 23, John's son John aged 6 & dau. Margaret aged 2. Only John senior has a birth place noted. They seem to be living in a multi occupancy building that looks like no. 6 Little College Street Chelsea. The ref. is RG9 piece 35 folio 50 page 5 Where did you find Bridget and Malachy Hyland with the children that you believe are those of John & Mary? was it in a census that you found Bridget and Malachy? if so which census was that? Do you have a reference for that census or any other census where you have perhaps found Bridget and Malachy. References are very important where you have them you should post them in your messages asking for help. The rest of us can then look at those item you have found to see if you can spot anything that you might have overlooked or haven't fully understood. If you give the list as much information a you can then there is more chance of us subscribers to the list helping you. Otherwise we are working blind so to speak. I have seen your later messages giving further information but there are still pieces of information missing from what you write, which information you must have and could share with us in order that we might help. Could it be that the Malachi used his wife's maiden name after their marriage? I have come across this happening once when helping a friend of mine with her ancestry. Whether that man had something to hide or not I have yet to discover, but he used his wife's maiden name as his own surname. We need to know exactly where you have found Bridget & Malachi Hyland with those children, which document they appear in together with those children. Regards Jenny DeAngelis -----Original Message----- From: COLEEN COLEMAN Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MDX] BRIDGET HYLAND 8d pg.847 found (7) marriages for a Bridget Hyland born 1818 age -23- 1861 Dec 1861 Ashton 8d pg.847 June 1864 W.Bromwich 6b pg.927 Sept. 1864 Birmingham 6d pg.316 June 1866 Rochdale 8e pg.84 Dec 1866 Warrington 8c pg.243 Dec 1867 Liverpool 8b pg.410 Mar 1869 Stourbridge 6c pg.228 If I could find the one listing her parents as Thomas and Catherine I could prove this was my John Hyland's sisiter once and for all. Said that John and Mary came to the US due to parental displeasure at the marriage due to them being Protestant and Catholic. Not to marry outside of their faiths.

John and Mary had the following children after emigrating to the US: Margaret b.1862 McLean Co IL USA Elizabeth b.1863 McLean Co IL USA James b.1864 McLean Co IL Mary b.1867 Huntley McHenry Co IL (my ancestor) Thomas Patrick b.1869 Kane Co IL Katherin b.1872 Woodson Co KS Yates Center this is why I am working on finding my family as it was said that John and Mary came to the US due to the fact that they intermarried he being Catholic and she Protestant which in the early days was taboo. Thanks so much for everyone's help. Coleen in WY USA Mary Hyland married Millard Filmore Coleman dads' paternal grandfather

I would like to thank everyone who has helped me on this quest.This branch of my Hawker family,appear to have been unfortunate in extending their line.Ann Maria's brother.Edwin Pitsch Beams Barrett Hawker,married on the eight of March 1862 and died nine days later from Pneumonia. Thank you.Regards,Charles .

Hello Charles Can not find them in 61 England census so they may have left UK before then. Found them in Wellington,Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Have 1871 Census Ontario Wgtn, South Guelph. Anne Maria Tuck died 10 July 1873 age 37 in Wgtn Ontario. Inflammation after Child birth. Herbert Fellows re married Helen Margaret Hewat 35 yrs, on 5th Oct. 1874. Herbert died 18 Feb 1881 age 47. Dropped dead in American Hotel from (supposed) Heart disease. Ontario Canada Deaths. All on Ancestry Margaret in NZ ________________________________ From: Charles Hawker <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 4 August 2012 10:29 PM Subject: [MDX] Herbert Fellows Tuck & Ann Maria, location in 1861 The above couple married in Paddington,on the 3rd.. December 1857.I have tried to find them on Anccestry,in my local library in the 1861 census,to no avail.Ann Maria's grandfather,writing after the event,refers to Herbert as a retired Army Surgeon, and indeed on the marriage certificate,he is shown as Surgeon.I would be grateful for any help tracing this couple please. Regards,Charles ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks everyone who has placed articles on the board in reference to my Hyland Family. I am hoping to develop other leads this week that will tell me if indeed John and Mary who were married in 1853 Stepney Middlesex London England are indeed my dads' paternal great-Grandparents. I have their other children including my Great-Grandmother. Just unable to locate them in the 1860 census is Illinois USA or 1870 census Kansas USA census so believe they were traveling from IL to KS. If they were still in England in 1861 then they would not be in the 1860 Illinois USA census stands to reason. Thanks everyone. Coleen in Wyoming USA

I messed up she was alone in the 1861 census with John, Mary and 2 children John born 1855 and Margaret born 1859.

no I found the marriages on Free B MD I'm just saying that these were what I found I still need to check other marriage sources. Thanks for your reply

Reposting my interest in the name Heraud. I am interested in any information about this name as most people are connected. Annemarie Heraud Darwin, NT, Australia Sent from my iPad

COLEEN COLEMAN wrote: > Yes I have a copy of the actual marriage records and since have been > sent e-mail a census return for 1861 listing Mary and John with Malachy > and Bridget along with 2 children John > born 1855 and Margaret born 1859 who do not appear with this family in > 1862 in Illinois USA. They appear in 1861 with the family. Apparently > when I did some searches on the internet > on Google and Ancestry.com I have come up with the fact that a John > Hyland born about 1854-55 married a Julia Charlotte Brown Kensington > Chelsea Middlesex and a Margaret born > 1859 married either a Joseph MILTON or James Mayler. Hallo You seem to be obsessed with the idea that Margaret married Joseph MILTON or James MAYLER. If she was born in 1859, she would only have been about 15 when she married. That wasn't illegal but it was very unlikely. England is slightly smaller than Louisiana. The two marriages you have found are at opposite ends of England. It's like saying that's like saying two marriages at the opposite ends of Louisiana are possibles. If John was born in 1855, it's highly unlikely he married in 1872. He would only have been about 17. I'm sorry, I've tried to give you help and guidance. I can't do any more. Good luck Connie in London

COLEEN COLEMAN wrote: > marriage solemnized district of Stepney county of unreadable residence > looks like School House Lans? Ratcliff John age 25 Mary age 20 > Application number R456421 8th May 1853 Hallo The address is most likely School House Lane. The application number has nothing to do with the marriage. It's your order number, that's all. Connie in London

COLEEN COLEMAN wrote: > 8d pg.847 > found (7) marriages for a Bridget Hyland born 1818 age -23- 1861 > Dec 1861 Ashton 8d pg.847 > June 1864 W.Bromwich 6b pg.927 > Sept. 1864 Birmingham 6d pg.316 > June 1866 Rochdale 8e pg.84 > Dec 1866 Warrington 8c pg.243 > Dec 1867 Liverpool 8b pg.410 > Mar 1869 Stourbridge 6c pg.228 > > If I could find the one listing her parents as Thomas and Catherine I > could prove this was my John Hyland's sisiter once and for all. Said > that John and Mary came to the US due to > parental displeasure at the marriage due to them being Protestant and > Catholic. Not to marry outside of their faiths. Hallo You said in an earlier mail that Bridget was married to Malachi HYLAND, therefore Bridget's surname would not have been HYLAND when she married. She would have been John's sister in law, not sister. All the registration districts you've given are all over the place. None of the marriage certificates will give both parents. You will only get the father's name on an English marriage certificate unless the bride or groom is illegitimate. If that is the case you may get no father's name or a fictional name or that of an alterative male relative. Connie in London

Searching again will also find Herbie married again in Ontario. Ontario, Canada, Marriages, 1801-1928 <javascript:go7921_3119900()> Birth, Marriage & Death View Image <http://search.ancestry.com/browse/view.aspx?dbid=7921&iid=ONMS932_15-1300&pid=2764007&ssrc=&fn=Herbert+Fellows&ln=Tuck&st=g> NAME: HerbertFellowsTuck SPOUSE: Helen Margaret Hewat MOTHER: Agnes Hester FelleowsTuck FATHER: John JohnsonTuck > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm going to break this down. COLEEN COLEMAN wrote: > ok John and Mary (Dwyer) Hyland married 1853 Stepney Middlesex > England, Is this the marriage you are referring to: Marriages Jun 1853 DWYER Mary Stepney 1c 1033 HYLAND John Stepney 1c 1033 Do you have the marriage certificate to confirm John did marry Mary and not Johannah GOULD? Stepney is the *registration* district. It does not necessarily mean the parish or district of London or Middlesex known as Stepney. You would need the parish registers on Ancestry or the marriage certificate to confirm the actual place. There is another marriage: Marriages Dec 1854 HYLAND John Stepney 1c 1046 One bride is Sarah KENT but the other one is not shown There are two other marriages in the same general area of London for a John HYLAND. > 2 children born to these two people, JOhn born 1855 and Margaret > born 1859. Apparently the children stayed behind and lived with > Malachy and Bridget Hyland. *Where* were John and Margaret born? Births Mar 1854 Hyland John Chelsea 1a 139 The above is most likely the John who married in Kensington. Births Jun 1856 HYLAND John James Stepney 1c 439 He subsequently married Sarah SHALL/SHOLL/SHELL in Hackney Registration District Births Dec 1856 Hyland John Stepney 1c 440 One of these two Johns is most likely the son of the John who married in Stepney. There are no birth registrations at all for a Margaret in your time frame. That doesn't mean there weren't any. It means the GRO has no entry for a Margaret either because there isn't one or the local registrar missed it out of the return or the GRO missed it out of their index. > I found a John Hyland matching his date of birth on a Google Search > saying he married Julia Charlotte Brown in Kensington Chelsea > Middlesex. These all seem to have been posted by you. Do you have any evidence, such as a marriage certificate, to say that John HYLAND and Julia Charlotte BROWN did marry each other? A man born in the East End of London isn't very likely to have married a girl from the more upmarket West End of London. Kensington wasn't wholly upmarket then but it was generally of a higher social level than the East End. That is also not to say the whole of the East End was poor. Also Kensington and Chelsea are two different districts of London, not one. > Also found a Margaret living with Malachy and Bridget and married > either Joseph MILTON or James MAYLER. Where did you find this? As I have already said the James MAYLER marriage is unlikely because it is in totally the wrong part of England. Why do you think this is a possible marriage? What reasons do you have for thinking Margaret travelled to the opposite end of the country to marry? There is a birth registration for a Margaret in the right area (December quarter 1860 Chorlton Registration District) for the marriage to James MAYLER but it's not likely to be the Margaret you are looking for. I think you should forget about James MAYLER. For a girl who was apparently born in the east part of London, the marriage in Poplar Registration District possibly to Joseph MILTON *or Matthew AKINS*. > Who was Malachy|? Who was Bridget prior to her becoming Mrs. > Malachy Hyland? Was Malachy a brother to my John born Ireland? Again, you have NOT given a source for this information and no other information. These are questions you will have to answer yourself. There's no marriage that I can see on FreeBMD for a Malachi or Malachy HYLAND between 1840 and 1860. Bridget generally regarded as an Irish name. If you want people to help you, you must give names, dates, places and, most importantly, the source of your information. The reasons why you believe you have the right connections is also helpful. You know what and who you are talking about but the list doesn't. Connie in London

I can't find any info so far although I must admit I thought Malachi didn't fit with Hyland as I thought it was a Hebrew name...turns out it has strong Irish connections too! The 1861 census definitely said sister for Bridget but maybe it was sister in law. I'll keep looking. cheers Sheila -----Original Message----- From: COLEEN COLEMAN Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [MDX] fursther information on this Hyland Family I have found a John Hyland born about 1854-55 married to one Julia Charlotte Brown in 1872 and a Margaret Hyland born 1859 married to one of these two men: Joseph Milton or a James Mayler. If so I am wondering if they stsyed behind and were living with Malachi/Malachy and Bridget Hyland. I am assuming that possibly this man may have been a brother to my John and decided to keep the 2 children when John and Mary came to live in the US? Who was the Malachi/Malachy Hyland? Nothing on Google or Rootsweb World Connect. Why did the children not stay with their parents? Makes one wonder what happened to the family that caused such a rift? ************************************** and the body of the message

in the 1861 John and Mary and the two children are living with a Bridget Hyland who is referred to as a sister to John snr. I'll see what else I can find cheers Sheila From: COLEEN COLEMAN John and Mary (Dwyer) Hyland married 1853 this area. Apparently had 2 children John born 1855 and Margaret born 1859. Then migrating to the US where they settled in Illinois. John died in 1878 in Kansas USA a widower leaving 6 children: Margaret b.1862, Elizabeth b.1863, James b.1864, Mary b.1867 (my ancestor) married my Millard Filmore Coleman , Thomas Patrick b.1869 and Katherin b.1872 KS USA. Where did the first two children John and Margaret disappear to? Did they die early on and then John and Mary came to the States? Can anyone help clear up this mystery? Thanks **************************************

8d pg.847 found (7) marriages for a Bridget Hyland born 1818 age -23- 1861 Dec 1861 Ashton 8d pg.847 June 1864 W.Bromwich 6b pg.927 Sept. 1864 Birmingham 6d pg.316 June 1866 Rochdale 8e pg.84 Dec 1866 Warrington 8c pg.243 Dec 1867 Liverpool 8b pg.410 Mar 1869 Stourbridge 6c pg.228 If I could find the one listing her parents as Thomas and Catherine I could prove this was my John Hyland's sisiter once and for all. Said that John and Mary came to the US due to parental displeasure at the marriage due to them being Protestant and Catholic. Not to marry outside of their faiths.

Thank you to Shannon and Nivard,for their helpful information.Since Ann Maria was part of my ancestry,I would be grateful for help to find if she had any children in Canada and details of her death date.Please excuse any message of a similar nature,but I am having problems with the server. Regards,Charles