Dear Robyn, Have you tried serching the records of the church at Turnham Green, and also St George, Old Brentford? I've got families from Chiswick and they seem to have used both of these churches as well. Jeanette , > I'm seeking confirmation on the parentage of a Thomas SHEPHERD, bp in > 1815 at St Nicholas, Chiswick, Mdx. > The bapt. entry (on Ancestry) states his parents were Thomas and Sarah, > a labourer, of Turnham Green, Chiswick, but I cannot find the marriage > of this Thomas and Sarah. I also found a sister Emma bapt in 1818 at St > Nicholas. > > Thomas jnr. MAY be my direct ancestor, supposedly born in Brentford, > Mdx, c 1816, and the bapt in 1815 is the closest candidate I can find. > > I also have Thomas jnr. in the 1841 and '51 censuses. > > ANY help or suggestions appreciated. > Cheers, Robyn of Oz. > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Diane, I found a marriage for Henry Dunn Woodey to Emma Maria Ann Cutress(?) in 1869 where Henry's occupation is as a Lighterman and his father is noted as Thomas Woodey deceased. the marriage took place at St. Andrew by the Wardrobe in London July 25th 1869. This marriage seems to fit with the Henry Dunn Woodey you found with the father called Thomas the bargeman? Did your own Henry have a wife called Emma do you know? I have found in the 1841 census what must be the same Henry Woodey as in the marriage above, and most likely the same person as you say you have found consistently in the census. His father is Thomas Woodey a Bargeman mother Martha. But in the 1841 census this Henry is only aged 4 so born about 1837 or so not 1812, you say your Henry Wm. Dunwoody was baptised in 1812 son of John & Sarah. In this entry I can see no middle name of Dunn as you say you have found. Other children's name in this family are Thomas 10, Alfred 7, Emily 9, Eliza 5. Both the father Thomas and his wife Martha say they were not born in the county in which they were living at the time of this cenus, i.e. Oxfordshire where they are at Henley on Thames, though the children are all shown as yes they were born in Oxon. The ref. for this 1841 entry is HO107 piece 874 book/ED 4 colio 35 page 25 I have seen the 1861 entry for Henry Dunwoody born about 1817 with a wife called Catherine who have a son called Henry William aged 12, so born about 1849, and who are living the North West of England, at Everton Lancashire, which matches what you say of your Henry William senior, in the 1851 census, and who you say was baptised little Marlow 1812 son of John and Sarah. Henry Dunwoody the father in the 1861 entry I found is a Coachman and was born Marlow Buckinghamshire, the ref. for this entry is RG9 piece 2720 folio 11 page 19 In the 1861 I did find a Heny Dunn Woodey aged 20, so born about 1840, born in Oxfordshire. His mother is Martha which matches with the above 1841 census entry where the father is Thomas. But in the 1861 the mother Martha has re.married to a James Well and Henry Dunn Woodey is noted as his son in law, meaning stepson. this Henry Dunn Woodey has the occupation of Lighterman App.(rentice). The Mother Martha is shown as born in Buckinghamshire. they are living at Christchurch Southwark, Surrey. Henry is indexed on Ancestry as Henry Dem Woodey. The ref for this 1861 entry is RG9 piece 312 folio 21 page 50. So you can see from this that there are two famlies with a son Henry and the surname Dunn Woodey or Dunwoody. they do not seem to tie up at all apart from the elder Henry Dunwoody in the 1861 entry above born about 1817 being born in Bucks. at Marlow. Maybe your Henry William Dunwoody born about 1812 had a brother Thomas who married Martha and both of them had sons called Henry. You would need to search the parish registers for Marlow perhaps to see if you can find baptisms for John and any siblings including a Thomas, and if that fails for Hedsor and then maybe Sunbury which is where you say your Henry William variously says he was born. I don't know if I have helped at all but perhaps you can see something here that will make you think and get you started moving again on the Dunwoody family. Regards Jenny DeAngelis << Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on bargemen in the South of England or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its variants.RegardsDiane>>

Hello Everyone: This is my first posting. A very difficult 15 years of looking here and there and finding nothing that I can use. Can someone give me some direction. I'm in Canada and don't have a clue where to look. I'm looking for the children of Emily (Cullum) Swain(e) - (Frances Emma Landsdowne Cullum) dau. Of Frederick Cullum (Navvy) c.1854 - 1902 Frances Emma Swain 1877 -1881 - St. James Clerkenwell dau of Thomas Swain (Pipemaker) Thomas Swain 1881 - ? son of Thomas Swain (Pipemaker) married 1902 Eliz. Jane Owen dau of Rob't Owen (Glasscutter) Lost him after his marriage. Jane Swain 1886 - 1918 sailed for Canada 1899 with Barnardo's dau of Robert Osborne John (Thomas?) Swain 1894 - son of unknown, feeble minded. 1902 Waterloo Road Workhouse. 1905. Feeble Minded Home, Kingwood Road, Fulham. 1910 placed at home of George Owen in Dyfed, South Wales. 1911 still there and wages lowered. Lost him at this time. George Swain 1895 - son of unknown. 1905 Workhouse, 1908 Naval School Exmouth, Devon, 1911 left the school & transferred to S.S. Ballarat (a P & O Vessel) as a Bugler. Lost him at this time. Also I cannot seem to find a SWAIN LIST to join. I tried twice but never received notification so not sure why. Thanks a lot for any help with this disappointing research. Bonnie

Here are some events from The Society of Genealogists through to beginning of September. The are not free but reasonably priced. All places must be pre-booked and prepaid - see end of this message for website which has details including and costs and contact details. Sat 18 Aug 10:30-13:00 The Victorian Way of Death A half day course with Tim Doig. Sat 18 Aug 14:00-17:00 Ireland to England: Where Did They Come From? A half-day course with Michael Gandy Tue 21 Aug 14:00 Visit & Talk: Ragged School Museum A one-hour talk on the history of the Ragged School, its premises and the East London Victorian poor. The Museum can be toured before or after the talk (self guided). Wed 22 Aug 14:00-15:00 Mayfair and the London Season During the nineteenth century, aristocratic and elite families would travel to a small pocket of the West End of London to participate in the annual Season. Mayfair remained at the heart of this social phenomenon throughout the century and it's character fundamentally affected by the events of the Season. A one-hour talk with Kathryn Wilkins Sat 25 Aug 10:30-13:00 In the Name of God Amen: Wills Workshop Whether your ancestors owned large swathes of land in the north of England or came from a more humble background in the West Country, the chances are that somewhere along the line some of them will have left wills. The tutor will look at how to access wills and how you can use them to get a better understanding of what life was really like for your ancestors. A half-day workshop with Dave Annal Sat 25 Aug 14:00-17:00 Family Historian Software - Practical A hands-on practical course to help you better understand the software, you must bring a laptop.A half-day course with John Hanson Sat 1 Sep 10:30-13:00 Drawing up a Family Tree The instructor will talk about uses of family trees, standard layouts and conventions, what to include and how to draw one up by hand. Software is mentioned as one means of generating trees and pedigree charts but the emphasis will not be on specific programs. A half-day course with Louise Taylor Sat 1 Sep 14:00-17:00 Coach & Harness Makers and Those That Drove Them Throughout the era of the horse drawn vehicle many skilled and not so skilled ancestors were involved in the construction of the vehicles and the crafting and manufacture of harnesses used on the horses that pulled them. The course examines the different occupations followed, the regional differences, how they trained and the variety of records of those involved, including those that drove them. A half-day course with Ian Waller Wed 5 Sep 11:00-13:30 (appx) A Historical Walk Around Wapping This walk will be led by Derek Morris, author of ‘Wapping 1600-1800: A Social History’. Derek will focus on the 18th century merchants in the Minories, Wapping, Well Close Square and St George in the East. The SoG Website with further details, including prices and how to book: http://www.sog.org.uk/events/calendar.shtml Ann Middx Admin

Thank you John I have Albert Henry on the 1911 Census married with his children . Regards Jeanne ________________________________ From: johnfhhgen <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2012, 20:52 Subject: Re: [MDX] Charles John Davis Help please On 09/08/2012 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> I have the marriage cert of above when he married Amy Lovell 19 May 1878 Harmondsworth, he was  a Widower age 48, Gardener ,Father name Charles a Farmer. I have found them on the 1901 Census with various children. Not there eldest son Albert Henry b 1879 Have cert. Please to excuse my hanging on Eve's reply, but I have not seen original posting! Might Albert Henry (b.1879) in 1901 be working away or in Boer War in South Africa? He may, of course, be deceased, unless you have him in 1911 or marrying later. Kind regards, John Henley. > Thi is a very elusive gentleman. He says he was born in Bedford Town in > 1901. I haven't found him in 1881 (unless he is the charles Davis with > another wife, very much alive? >    I have spotted what looks like Amy (Eliza?)- though using her mother's > name, Eliza, and visiting what looks like her aunt Ann.  With her are three > children - Edith(Amy) Lovel aged 8, Charles Davis aged 6 and (Albert) Henry > Davis aged 1, all born in Harmondsworth. The way they are grouped > suggests they are all hers, but this may just be the way Uncle Will did it. > >      In 1891, it seems possibly the couple had changed their first names - the > children's names match (including Henrietta, which is pretty distinctive) > though the ages are out of kilter and the birthplaces mixed up. Possibly this > is a brother using the same forenames and treading close on the heels of > Charles as he moves around - which he did a lot. >      Charles aged 6 in 1881 born Harmondsworth matches in age charles > aged 36 in 1911, though why he said he was born in Aylesbury beats me. >    This needs more investigation before we can be positive. >  EVE > > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society > ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can anyone tell me what records were used to call up men for service. Did they have identity cards in 1914? How could someone avoid the call up. I am looking for Leonard Davidson Abrehart. He went AWOL from the Royal Navy early in 1914 before the war started ( I have his Navy records) He next turns up in 1920 getting married in Dover using the name Leonard Davidson. He then joins the Merchant Navy using Leonard Davidson and saying he was born Packenham Victoria Australia. when in fact he was born Mitcham Surrey. I have looked at the 1WW medal cards but too many Leonard Davidson's Just one possibility a Leonard Victor Davidson (Leonard had a brother Victor who died at sea in 1915) I just would like to fill in the gap. I have checked on the Mariners list and nobody call tell me if the Navy would have looked for him when he went AWOL in Plymouth. Regards Sheila NSW

On 09/08/2012 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> I have the marriage cert of above when he married Amy Lovell 19 May 1878 Harmondsworth, he was a Widower age 48, Gardener ,Father name Charles a Farmer. I have found them on the 1901 Census with various children. Not there eldest son Albert Henry b 1879 Have cert. Please to excuse my hanging on Eve's reply, but I have not seen original posting! Might Albert Henry (b.1879) in 1901 be working away or in Boer War in South Africa? He may, of course, be deceased, unless you have him in 1911 or marrying later. Kind regards, John Henley. > Thi is a very elusive gentleman. He says he was born in Bedford Town in > 1901. I haven't found him in 1881 (unless he is the charles Davis with > another wife, very much alive? > I have spotted what looks like Amy (Eliza?)- though using her mother's > name, Eliza, and visiting what looks like her aunt Ann. With her are three > children - Edith(Amy) Lovel aged 8, Charles Davis aged 6 and (Albert) Henry > Davis aged 1, all born in Harmondsworth. The way they are grouped > suggests they are all hers, but this may just be the way Uncle Will did it. > > In 1891, it seems possibly the couple had changed their first names - the > children's names match (including Henrietta, which is pretty distinctive) > though the ages are out of kilter and the birthplaces mixed up. Possibly this > is a brother using the same forenames and treading close on the heels of > Charles as he moves around - which he did a lot. > Charles aged 6 in 1881 born Harmondsworth matches in age charles > aged 36 in 1911, though why he said he was born in Aylesbury beats me. > This needs more investigation before we can be positive. > EVE > > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society >

Thank you so much for all of the help that I have been sent regarding this. I agree that it is unlikely that John Dunwoody was a Master Mariner, maybe Henry was talking his father's profession 'up' on his marriage certificate. I doubt that I will ever know for sure as Master Mariners did not register until about 1845, ( I think), and John Dunwoody would have been earlier than that.I have had a look at the register of watermen, (via findmypast) and there are no Dunwoodys or Woodeys on this. As I know that a Thomas Dunwoody was listed as a bargeman on the 1798 Posse list, I think that bargemen were not included in the register.Again, thank you for the help and if you come across any Dunwoodys in the South of England, please let me know.RegardsDiane > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:57:00 +0100 > Subject: [MDX] dunwoody or Dunn Woodey, bargemen > > > > > > Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on bargemen in the South of Englan! > d or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its variants.RegardsDiane > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 09/08/2012 7:22 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> I wouldn't have thought that a bargeman has anything to do with watermen >> and lightermen who work on the Thames and have a history going back, I >> believe, to Elizabethan times. I think they were closely controlled and >> had to go through an apprenticeship > This is true, technically, and the Company of Watermen & Lightermen > restricted entry very much to sons, nephews, grandsons of old watermen. > They were essentially the taxi-men and lights van men for the main London > area. > To me, a barge carries a heavy load of goods down a canal or inland > river, delivering same to a dock or wharf, possibly within the Pool of london, > at the same time as lightermen, on their smaller, lighter boats, carried > passengers and very light goods within the London area proper. The > absolute limit was Teddington Lock, after which the river was left to the > barges. But the distinction was blurred because some lightermen made their > living from unloading quite large cargoes from ships standing off, whio could > not get into the riverbank, until the thames was dredged to have a deeper > central channel. Many a cargo got rather 'lighter' between ship and river > bank and found its way into receiving houses in Southwark. Were the lightermen becuase they had lighter, faster boats or because the lightebed the ships by alighting the cargo, ferrying it to shore? My own impression has always been the later, with the watermen as the "taxi" service. Kind regards, John Henley > However, one of the popular songs of the C19 was > I'm Lighterman Tom, from Twickenham town > They call me the jolly bargee > From Whitechapel down to Teddington town > No feller more happy than me. > I've followed the river, the jolly old river > Since I was a child of nine.... > And the Royal barge, as seen in the recent pagenatry, was really a lighter, > but a larger, heavier one than the norm.# > > The lightermen were the speed merchants, and dealt dailydirectly with the > public, whereas barges (or narrow boats, depending) were chartered by > wharfingers who go cargoes for them. > And although the owner/man in charge of a barge might call himself a > captain, or master, and have a mate and maybe a boy, there is no way he > would be known as a master mariner, for their were sea-going men with > control of ships, not barges, in charge of a whole crew of men. > > EVE > >> I would imagine that watermen and lightermen would consider themselves >> to be superior to bargemen and would not want to be described as a >> bargeman in the census. >> >> Ron >> >> >> On 09/08/2012 15:13, Jenny De Angelis wrote: >>> I think you might find that a bargeman would be called a Waterman or >>> Lighterman and they would have passed through an apprenticeship to become a >>> Waterman or Lighterman. Sunbury in Middlesex would be Sunbury on Thames, >>> meaning that Sunbury is beside the River Thames. LIghtermen worked on the >>> river Thames taking goods from the ships in the London docks etc., along the >>> river to deliver where ever those goods were required. >>> >>> A lighterman, or bargeman as you have it noted, is a very different thing to >>> a Master mariner. A Master mariner would also have to learn his craft but >>> by sailing on various sea going ships until he had gained enough experience >>> to then sit the exam which if he passed he would gain his Master Mariners >>> Certificate. He would then be able to sign on for voyages either as the >>> Master, or captain, or at times he might sign on as 1st. Mate, also called >>> just Mate, under the Master. If the master was resting or fell ill then the >>> Mate would take over command of the ship, having the same qualification as >>> the Master. >>> This is what my Gt. Grandfather, a Master Mariner, did throughout the year >>> 1881-1882, one time he sailed as Mate another as Master on voyages on board >>> the same vessel during that year. >>> >>> If you have a Master Mariner to research then the Mariners site, and the >>> linked Mariners mailing list, a rootsweb list, will be of help to you. >>> http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ >>> >>> My husband's Gt. grandfather was a Lighterman on the river Thames and I have >>> obtained copies for when he was singed to a qualified Lighterman as an >>> apprentice, his "Apprenticeship Binding". >>> >>> This page of the Parish Register site below will give you links to further >>> information on tracing Watermen and Lightermen. This site offers a research >>> service for a fee and helped me get the copies of the Apprentice binding >>> that I mentioned above. >>> http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html >>> >>> I hope something in the above gives you something to work on. >>> >>> Regards >>> Jenny DeAngelis >>> >>> >>> << Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised >>> in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I >>> have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from >>> view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his >>> birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This >>> coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me >>> wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in >>> the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to >>> both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate >>> link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who >>> have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The >>> father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin >>> with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on >>> bargemen in the South of England or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its >>> variants.RegardsDiane >> >>> >>>

> I have the marriage cert of above when he married Amy Lovell 19 May 1878 Harmondsworth, he was  a Widower age 48, Gardener ,Father name Charles a Farmer. I have found them on the 1901 Census with various children. Not there eldest son Albert Henry b 1879 Have cert. > Thi is a very elusive gentleman. He says he was born in Bedford Town in 1901. I haven't found him in 1881 (unless he is the charles Davis with another wife, very much alive? I have spotted what looks like Amy (Eliza?)- though using her mother's name, Eliza, and visiting what looks like her aunt Ann. With her are three children - Edith(Amy) Lovel aged 8, Charles Davis aged 6 and (Albert) Henry Davis aged 1, all born in Harmondsworth. The way they are grouped suggests they are all hers, but this may just be the way Uncle Will did it. In 1891, it seems possibly the couple had changed their first names - the children's names match (including Henrietta, which is pretty distinctive) though the ages are out of kilter and the birthplaces mixed up. Possibly this is a brother using the same forenames and treading close on the heels of Charles as he moves around - which he did a lot. Charles aged 6 in 1881 born Harmondsworth matches in age charles aged 36 in 1911, though why he said he was born in Aylesbury beats me. This needs more investigation before we can be positive. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

> I wouldn't have thought that a bargeman has anything to do with watermen > and lightermen who work on the Thames and have a history going back, I > believe, to Elizabethan times. I think they were closely controlled and > had to go through an apprenticeship This is true, technically, and the Company of Watermen & Lightermen restricted entry very much to sons, nephews, grandsons of old watermen. They were essentially the taxi-men and lights van men for the main London area. To me, a barge carries a heavy load of goods down a canal or inland river, delivering same to a dock or wharf, possibly within the Pool of london, at the same time as lightermen, on their smaller, lighter boats, carried passengers and very light goods within the London area proper. The absolute limit was Teddington Lock, after which the river was left to the barges. But the distinction was blurred because some lightermen made their living from unloading quite large cargoes from ships standing off, whio could not get into the riverbank, until the thames was dredged to have a deeper central channel. Many a cargo got rather 'lighter' between ship and river bank and found its way into receiving houses in Southwark. However, one of the popular songs of the C19 was I'm Lighterman Tom, from Twickenham town They call me the jolly bargee From Whitechapel down to Teddington town No feller more happy than me. I've followed the river, the jolly old river Since I was a child of nine.... And the Royal barge, as seen in the recent pagenatry, was really a lighter, but a larger, heavier one than the norm.# The lightermen were the speed merchants, and dealt dailydirectly with the public, whereas barges (or narrow boats, depending) were chartered by wharfingers who go cargoes for them. And although the owner/man in charge of a barge might call himself a captain, or master, and have a mate and maybe a boy, there is no way he would be known as a master mariner, for their were sea-going men with control of ships, not barges, in charge of a whole crew of men. EVE > > I would imagine that watermen and lightermen would consider themselves > to be superior to bargemen and would not want to be described as a > bargeman in the census. > > Ron > > > On 09/08/2012 15:13, Jenny De Angelis wrote: > > > > I think you might find that a bargeman would be called a Waterman or > > Lighterman and they would have passed through an apprenticeship to become a > > Waterman or Lighterman. Sunbury in Middlesex would be Sunbury on Thames, > > meaning that Sunbury is beside the River Thames. LIghtermen worked on the > > river Thames taking goods from the ships in the London docks etc., along the > > river to deliver where ever those goods were required. > > > > A lighterman, or bargeman as you have it noted, is a very different thing to > > a Master mariner. A Master mariner would also have to learn his craft but > > by sailing on various sea going ships until he had gained enough experience > > to then sit the exam which if he passed he would gain his Master Mariners > > Certificate. He would then be able to sign on for voyages either as the > > Master, or captain, or at times he might sign on as 1st. Mate, also called > > just Mate, under the Master. If the master was resting or fell ill then the > > Mate would take over command of the ship, having the same qualification as > > the Master. > > This is what my Gt. Grandfather, a Master Mariner, did throughout the year > > 1881-1882, one time he sailed as Mate another as Master on voyages on board > > the same vessel during that year. > > > > If you have a Master Mariner to research then the Mariners site, and the > > linked Mariners mailing list, a rootsweb list, will be of help to you. > > http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ > > > > My husband's Gt. grandfather was a Lighterman on the river Thames and I have > > obtained copies for when he was singed to a qualified Lighterman as an > > apprentice, his "Apprenticeship Binding". > > > > This page of the Parish Register site below will give you links to further > > information on tracing Watermen and Lightermen. This site offers a research > > service for a fee and helped me get the copies of the Apprentice binding > > that I mentioned above. > > http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html > > > > I hope something in the above gives you something to work on. > > > > Regards > > Jenny DeAngelis > > > > > > << Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised > > in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I > > have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from > > view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his > > birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This > > coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me > > wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in > > the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to > > both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate > > link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who > > have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The > > father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin > > with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on > > bargemen in the South of England or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its > > variants.RegardsDiane >> > > > > ************************************** > > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

There is a Charles Mansfield age 58 Head Auctioneers Porter and Elizabeth Mansfield aged 54 Wife Shoe Closer Both born in Clerkenwell Middlesex The address was 17 Ashburnham terrace There are several other families at the same address let me know if you need more info cheers Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:57 PM To: MIDDLESSEX LIST Subject: [MDX] 1871 Census Hi Would it be possible for someone to send me the details of an entry in the 1871 Census. The entry relates to the name of Mansfield and the reference given as "Chelsea. Chelsea South. Chelsea, London Middlesex. RG10. Fol. 13. Page 17. ED1. Household 83." I hope all that makes sense. Thank you in anticipation. Your efforts would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Bob Yarragon, Vic, Aust.

In Australia now we write Never Legally Married...for both Bride and /or Groom if relevant. cheers Sheila -----Original Message----- From: Jenny De Angelis Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MDX] Found affitional marriages An unmarried woman might still be called a spinster today though we tend to use the words Unmarried or single woman now the word spinster would still appear, I believe, in a marriage register today. Regards Jenny DeAngelis <<says age 20 for both. Says he was a labourer and she was a spinster. I guess anyone over age 18 and unmarried was a spinster? Is this true? Hmmm funny customs they had back then.>>

Yes, certainly during the war they would have searched for anyone who went AWOL. Certainly as the years wnet on and they desperately needed the men. I can recommend "To End All Wars - How the First World War Divided Britain" by Adam HOCHSCHILD. Gives a very good 'snapshot' of Britain during these years. Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Tutton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:38 PM Subject: [MDX] 1WW help please > Can anyone tell me what records were used to call up men for service. Did > they have identity cards in 1914? > > How could someone avoid the call up. > > I am looking for Leonard Davidson Abrehart. He went AWOL from the Royal > Navy > early in 1914 before the war started ( I have his Navy records) > > He next turns up in 1920 getting married in Dover using the name Leonard > Davidson. > He then joins the Merchant Navy using Leonard Davidson and saying he was > born Packenham Victoria Australia. when in fact he was born Mitcham > Surrey. > I have looked at the 1WW medal cards but too many Leonard Davidson's Just > one possibility a Leonard Victor Davidson (Leonard had a brother Victor > who > died at sea in 1915) > > I just would like to fill in the gap. I have checked on the Mariners list > and nobody call tell me if the Navy would have looked for him when he went > AWOL in Plymouth. > > Regards > Sheila > NSW > > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sheila Conscription started in Jan 1916 so he joined up rather than was called up If he had served in the Forces before WW1 he may have been in the reserves and called up, otherwise he volunteered If a man volunteered and said his name was Jim SMITH as long as he did not look to young or to old he would be accepted from the information given, there was no proof requested Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 09/08/2012 15:38, Sheila Tutton wrote: > Can anyone tell me what records were used to call up men for service. Did > they have identity cards in 1914? > > How could someone avoid the call up. > > I am looking for Leonard Davidson Abrehart. He went AWOL from the Royal Navy > early in 1914 before the war started ( I have his Navy records) > > He next turns up in 1920 getting married in Dover using the name Leonard > Davidson. > He then joins the Merchant Navy using Leonard Davidson and saying he was > born Packenham Victoria Australia. when in fact he was born Mitcham Surrey. > I have looked at the 1WW medal cards but too many Leonard Davidson's Just > one possibility a Leonard Victor Davidson (Leonard had a brother Victor who > died at sea in 1915) > > I just would like to fill in the gap. I have checked on the Mariners list > and nobody call tell me if the Navy would have looked for him when he went > AWOL in Plymouth. > > Regards > Sheila > NSW

I wouldn't have thought that a bargeman has anything to do with watermen and lightermen who work on the Thames and have a history going back, I believe, to Elizabethan times. I think they were closely controlled and had to go through an apprenticeship before being able to work on their own. I think a bargeman would be someone who runs a barge on a canal and probably carried on the work that his father had been doing. I would imagine that watermen and lightermen would consider themselves to be superior to bargemen and would not want to be described as a bargeman in the census. Ron On 09/08/2012 15:13, Jenny De Angelis wrote: > > I think you might find that a bargeman would be called a Waterman or > Lighterman and they would have passed through an apprenticeship to become a > Waterman or Lighterman. Sunbury in Middlesex would be Sunbury on Thames, > meaning that Sunbury is beside the River Thames. LIghtermen worked on the > river Thames taking goods from the ships in the London docks etc., along the > river to deliver where ever those goods were required. > > A lighterman, or bargeman as you have it noted, is a very different thing to > a Master mariner. A Master mariner would also have to learn his craft but > by sailing on various sea going ships until he had gained enough experience > to then sit the exam which if he passed he would gain his Master Mariners > Certificate. He would then be able to sign on for voyages either as the > Master, or captain, or at times he might sign on as 1st. Mate, also called > just Mate, under the Master. If the master was resting or fell ill then the > Mate would take over command of the ship, having the same qualification as > the Master. > This is what my Gt. Grandfather, a Master Mariner, did throughout the year > 1881-1882, one time he sailed as Mate another as Master on voyages on board > the same vessel during that year. > > If you have a Master Mariner to research then the Mariners site, and the > linked Mariners mailing list, a rootsweb list, will be of help to you. > http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ > > My husband's Gt. grandfather was a Lighterman on the river Thames and I have > obtained copies for when he was singed to a qualified Lighterman as an > apprentice, his "Apprenticeship Binding". > > This page of the Parish Register site below will give you links to further > information on tracing Watermen and Lightermen. This site offers a research > service for a fee and helped me get the copies of the Apprentice binding > that I mentioned above. > http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html > > I hope something in the above gives you something to work on. > > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis > > > << Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised > in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I > have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from > view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his > birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This > coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me > wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in > the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to > both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate > link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who > have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The > father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin > with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on > bargemen in the South of England or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its > variants.RegardsDiane >> > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think you might find that a bargeman would be called a Waterman or Lighterman and they would have passed through an apprenticeship to become a Waterman or Lighterman. Sunbury in Middlesex would be Sunbury on Thames, meaning that Sunbury is beside the River Thames. LIghtermen worked on the river Thames taking goods from the ships in the London docks etc., along the river to deliver where ever those goods were required. A lighterman, or bargeman as you have it noted, is a very different thing to a Master mariner. A Master mariner would also have to learn his craft but by sailing on various sea going ships until he had gained enough experience to then sit the exam which if he passed he would gain his Master Mariners Certificate. He would then be able to sign on for voyages either as the Master, or captain, or at times he might sign on as 1st. Mate, also called just Mate, under the Master. If the master was resting or fell ill then the Mate would take over command of the ship, having the same qualification as the Master. This is what my Gt. Grandfather, a Master Mariner, did throughout the year 1881-1882, one time he sailed as Mate another as Master on voyages on board the same vessel during that year. If you have a Master Mariner to research then the Mariners site, and the linked Mariners mailing list, a rootsweb list, will be of help to you. http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ My husband's Gt. grandfather was a Lighterman on the river Thames and I have obtained copies for when he was singed to a qualified Lighterman as an apprentice, his "Apprenticeship Binding". This page of the Parish Register site below will give you links to further information on tracing Watermen and Lightermen. This site offers a research service for a fee and helped me get the copies of the Apprentice binding that I mentioned above. http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html I hope something in the above gives you something to work on. Regards Jenny DeAngelis << Hello,My mysterious gt gt Grandfather Henry William DUNWOODY was baptised in Little Marlow in 1812, the son of John, (transcribed as William, but I have seen the original and it's Jno), and Sarah. He then disappears from view to reappear in the North West in 1851. On the censuses, he lists his birthplace as Hedsor, then Marlow and then Sunbury in Middlesex. This coupled with his stating his father's occupation as Master Mariner makes me wonder if his father was a bargeman. Dunwoody is a very unusual surname in the South of England and I have found a family in Wooburn, (very close to both Marlow and Hedsor) who may be related, but I cannot find a definate link to my Henry.On the 1841 census in Henley is a family of WOODEYS who have the middle name Dunn, (Henry Dunn WOODEY shows up repeatedly). The father Thomas is a bargeman. It may be coincidence, but leads are so thin with this ancestor that I would like to ask the board if they have info on bargemen in the South of England or Woodeys, Dunwoodys and all its variants.RegardsDiane >>

Information sent Anne South Australia [email protected] wrote: > Hi > Would it be possible for someone to send me the details of an entry in the 1871 Census. The entry relates to the name of Mansfield and the reference given as "Chelsea. Chelsea South. Chelsea, London Middlesex. RG10. Fol. 13. Page 17. ED1. Household 83." I hope all that makes sense. Thank you in anticipation. Your efforts would be greatly appreciated. > > Cheers > Bob > Yarragon, Vic, Aust.

It would have been before they were old enough to have been married before 1875 for him and probably before 1861 when John and Mary came to the US where they resided. Thanks for your help with this family. They sure are a "brick wall".

Hi Would it be possible for someone to send me the details of an entry in the 1871 Census. The entry relates to the name of Mansfield and the reference given as "Chelsea. Chelsea South. Chelsea, London Middlesex. RG10. Fol. 13. Page 17. ED1. Household 83." I hope all that makes sense. Thank you in anticipation. Your efforts would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Bob Yarragon, Vic, Aust.