English marriage certificates will only have details of the father - that is if they were known. If no one's managed to find further info for you I can have a look when I get home tonight. Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila and Brian Longden" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [MDX] Birth certificates and Ancestry.com > It is the marriage between Tryphenia Sparrow(b 1863) and Edward Wright (b > 1862) on 29 Jun 1880 at Clerkenwell St Paul. I was hoping for a bit more > information about her parents as although It tells me her father is > Ephrain > (m) Sparrow I can't find any information to link her to the Ephraim > Sparrow > I find in the census lists. > > > > cheers Sheila > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nivard Ovington > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:49 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MDX] Birth certificates and Ancestry.com > > Hi Sheila > > If you give the names and places we can double check for you but if it > is a marriage registration from a Parish Register it will be the same > detail if you order from the GRO or local office > > The copy on Ancestry is generally more desirable at it is may be signed > by the people getting married > > A copy from the GRO would not be signed by them and may have errors that > creep in as its a transcript of information sent from the local office > > The local office copy may or may not have the signatures of the couple > > As I said previously if you supply the names and details we can confirm > the above for you > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 10/10/2012 11:39, Sheila and Brian Longden wrote: >> I have a paid subscription on Ancestry which gives me access to what >> appears to be a copy of the marriage register for my great >> grandmother. If I order the official marriage certificate will it >> give me any more information? The marriage took place in 1880 >> >> cheers Sheila > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As usual, a much better answer from Nivard! Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [MDX] Birth certificates and Ancestry.com > Hi Sheila > > If you give the names and places we can double check for you but if it > is a marriage registration from a Parish Register it will be the same > detail if you order from the GRO or local office > > The copy on Ancestry is generally more desirable at it is may be signed > by the people getting married > > A copy from the GRO would not be signed by them and may have errors that > creep in as its a transcript of information sent from the local office > > The local office copy may or may not have the signatures of the couple > > As I said previously if you supply the names and details we can confirm > the above for you > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 10/10/2012 11:39, Sheila and Brian Longden wrote: >> I have a paid subscription on Ancestry which gives me access to what >> appears to be a copy of the marriage register for my great >> grandmother. If I order the official marriage certificate will it >> give me any more information? The marriage took place in 1880 >> >> cheers Sheila > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sheila If you give the names and places we can double check for you but if it is a marriage registration from a Parish Register it will be the same detail if you order from the GRO or local office The copy on Ancestry is generally more desirable at it is may be signed by the people getting married A copy from the GRO would not be signed by them and may have errors that creep in as its a transcript of information sent from the local office The local office copy may or may not have the signatures of the couple As I said previously if you supply the names and details we can confirm the above for you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/10/2012 11:39, Sheila and Brian Longden wrote: > I have a paid subscription on Ancestry which gives me access to what > appears to be a copy of the marriage register for my great > grandmother. If I order the official marriage certificate will it > give me any more information? The marriage took place in 1880 > > cheers Sheila

Hi Sheila No, it's exactly the same. Cheers Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila and Brian Longden" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: [MDX] Birth certificates and Ancestry.com >I have a paid subscription on Ancestry which gives me access to what >appears to be a copy of the marriage register for my great grandmother. If >I order the official marriage certificate will it give me any more >information? The marriage took place in 1880 > > cheers Sheila > > > ************************************** > Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** > superfluous old messages in replies. > > **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in > CAPITAL letters** > > List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm trying to trace anybody who had ancestors who work for the Saxby & Farmer Signal Works. John Saxby worked for the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway which began in 1852. In 1856 Saxby took out a patent for a signal lamp that was linked to the railways point and manufactured his new signals in Brighton but left the railway in 1862, moved to Kilburn in London where he joined forces with John Stinson Farmer and opened a factory in what was then Kilburn Lane and later became Canterbury Road. The company was amalgamated with others in 1920 to form Westinghouse Brake and Saxby Signal Company. My Gt. Gt Grandfather was pattern maker until his death in May 1871 Michael

I would like to make make contact with any descendant of, (according to "Family Tree Maker" program), my 1st Cousin 1 removed, Alfred George BATES born in Edmonton MDX, 3rd Qtr 1872 and who married Sarah Florence CHAPMAN 4th Qtr 1893. Alfred ad Sarah had, as far as I can determine, 5 children ;- Gladys (b. 1894); Benjamin (b. 1896 and may have died during WW 1); Rose Edith (b. 1902); George A (b. 1905) and Frederick T (b. 1906/7). Some of these may have lived and married in Hitchen, Herts Alfred's father, Benjamin, and my grandfather, John, were brothers. Peter S BATES NSW Aust.

The index is no longer at Kew they told me it was at Westminster . Jeanne ________________________________ From: Cathy Trewhitt <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 18:42 Subject: Re: [MDX] Wandsworth Regiser Office and GRO There is an index for adoptions, its held at Kew. Try looking in index's with mothers name, that will help you if you need to find him via the adoption index's. In my experience, if he was adopted, the certificate you get will give you the relivant information you will need, then go through the adoption agency. If it was a fair time ago, also look at family, who may have a child about that age. Hope you find what you are looking for    Cathy Girl from the most likley place in England ________________________________ From: Jan Rockett <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 18:11 Subject: [MDX] Wandsworth Regiser Office and GRO Could anyone tell me if they have tried getting information from Wandsworth Registrars? I am looking for the birth of a brother who was adopted out of the family. I have tried calling them but not got through. If I was to ask if they could access the registration I have would they do so and tell me if it is marked with an A for adopted? I know some will but have no experience of this office. Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put in fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be the mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? Jan ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From The Times ( London, England ), Wednesday, Mar 07, 1838; pg.7; Issue 16670.  DIED. On Wednesday last, after a lingering illness, Mr. William PARBERY , of the Queen's Head, Finchley, deeply regretted by a numerous circle of friends, aged 68.

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:46:10 +0100 "Jan Rockett" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan, >I was adopted myself but as an adopted person it was different applying >for my birth certificate. That, I know, but only from what you and others say; I've not had to try to locate adoptees in my family. At least, not yet. >I don't want to send the wrong info. We know the name of the father but It's far less of a problem now than before. GRO used to keep part of the fee for the search. That was deemed illegal. Now, if no certificate is supplied, you get your £9.25 back in full. It is therefore less risky to "take a punt", as they say. >as he wasn't present at the registration I am assuming his name will >not be on the birth certificate. A reasonably safe assumption, under the circumstances. >Being in Staffordshire makes it difficult to decamp to Kew on a >regular basis, however much I might want to!! :-) Indeed. >I shall send for it and hope for the best by giving the mothers details >in all fields. How about trying something like "not known" first? If the form doesn't like it, they'll soon let you know. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Your life is like a schedule, you run to meet the bills Life Kills - Human League

Cathy Trewhitt wrote: > There is an index for adoptions, its held at Kew. > Try looking in index's with mothers name, that will help you if you > need to find him via the adoption index's. > In my experience, if he was adopted, the certificate you get will give > you the relivant information you will need, then go through the adoption > agency. Hallo The adoption index will only give the child's adopted name not the name of his/her birth parent or parents. If you don't know the adopted name you won't be able to find the person. Adoption breaks all connections with the birth family. Both the adopted child and the birth parents must want to make contact. It won't happen if either don't want contact. I lost a beautiful young niece to adoption. I'm still hoping that one day she will want to make contact and reach out. Connie in London

Its fine, don't worry. I was adopted myself but as an adopted person it was different applying for my birth certificate. I don't want to send the wrong info. We know the name of the father but as he wasn't present at the registration I am assuming his name will not be on the birth certificate. Being in Staffordshire makes it difficult to decamp to Kew on a regular basis, however much I might want to!! I shall send for it and hope for the best by giving the mothers details in all fields. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Brad Rogers Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:34 PM To: Middex ML Subject: Re: [MDX] Wandsworth Regiser Office and GRO On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:51:02 +0100 "Jan Rockett" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan, >Thanks for that but if the age of the person is under 50 then parents >details and area of birth are essential. Ah, true. Even your mentioning "birth of a brother" wasn't enough to make me consider that possibility. Silly me. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Why do they try to hide our past pulling down houses and build car parks Bricks & Mortar - The Jam ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:51:02 +0100 "Jan Rockett" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan, >Thanks for that but if the age of the person is under 50 then parents >details and area of birth are essential. Ah, true. Even your mentioning "birth of a brother" wasn't enough to make me consider that possibility. Silly me. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Why do they try to hide our past pulling down houses and build car parks Bricks & Mortar - The Jam

Brad, Thanks for that but if the age of the person is under 50 then parents details and area of birth are essential. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Brad Rogers Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:39 PM To: Middex ML Subject: Re: [MDX] Wandsworth Regiser Office and GRO On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:11:42 +0100 "Jan Rockett" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan, >Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put >in fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be >the mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? If you have the GRO reference, you only need the name of the person being registered, parents names are unnecessary. If you *don't* know the reference, then enter only details you're 100% sure of, since if you enter incorrect info, a match will not be found. You will, however, get your money back if that is the case. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" It couldn't adapt so it couldn't survive The Great British Mistake - The Adverts ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is an index for adoptions, its held at Kew. Try looking in index's with mothers name, that will help you if you need to find him via the adoption index's. In my experience, if he was adopted, the certificate you get will give you the relivant information you will need, then go through the adoption agency. If it was a fair time ago, also look at family, who may have a child about that age. Hope you find what you are looking for    Cathy Girl from the most likley place in England ________________________________ From: Jan Rockett <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 18:11 Subject: [MDX] Wandsworth Regiser Office and GRO Could anyone tell me if they have tried getting information from Wandsworth Registrars? I am looking for the birth of a brother who was adopted out of the family. I have tried calling them but not got through. If I was to ask if they could access the registration I have would they do so and tell me if it is marked with an A for adopted? I know some will but have no experience of this office. Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put in fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be the mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? Jan ************************************** Send your List messages using **PLAIN TEXT** and always **TRIM AWAY** superfluous old messages in replies. **MEANINGFUL Subject Lines - who, what, where, when, with SURNAMES in CAPITAL letters** List Admin can be contacted at: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jan Rockett wrote: > I am looking for the birth of a brother who was adopted out of the family. > I have tried calling them but not got through. > Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put in > fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be the > mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? All you need to give is the details as per the index entry if you are sure you have the right one. If you're not sure: were the parents married? If not, then the mother's name but don't give the reference, just check the box to say you don't know it. You could also give the fact the child was adopted subsequently. I don't know about Wandsworth Register Office. I usually deal with the GRO but if a register office is unco-operative, the GRO can make them co-operate. I did that with Islington many years ago when they insisted I go to the FRC because "they have our registers" - not sure what they'd do now the FRC is closed <G> -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:11:42 +0100 "Jan Rockett" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan, >Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put >in fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be >the mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? If you have the GRO reference, you only need the name of the person being registered, parents names are unnecessary. If you *don't* know the reference, then enter only details you're 100% sure of, since if you enter incorrect info, a match will not be found. You will, however, get your money back if that is the case. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" It couldn't adapt so it couldn't survive The Great British Mistake - The Adverts

Could anyone tell me if they have tried getting information from Wandsworth Registrars? I am looking for the birth of a brother who was adopted out of the family. I have tried calling them but not got through. If I was to ask if they could access the registration I have would they do so and tell me if it is marked with an A for adopted? I know some will but have no experience of this office. Also when filling in the GRO certificate ordering form, what do I put in fathers/family name and surname? if no father is named? would it be the mothers name and surname again as that is the childs family name? Jan

Following on from the earlier messages about the above, the following is from The Times report, dated 16 August 1839, on the conclusion of the trial: "The Jury acquitted the prisoner of the charge of murder, and found him Guilty of manslaughter.   The learned JUDGE said he quite agreed in the propriety of the verdict, for although, in the absence of preconceived malice, there was no evidence to support the charge of murder, yet the facts disclosed a considerable degree of malignity on the part of the prisoner. He could not sufficiently deprecate the un-English and unmanly practice of resorting to the use of a knife in sudden quarrel, and it was with deep regret he found that the offence of stabbing was on the increase in this country. It became the bounden duty, therefore, both of judges and magistrates to check so disgraceful a practice as far as the law could do so. The Court, however, felt some difficulty in the present case, chiefly on account of the disparity in the ages of the deceased and the prisoner; but under all circumstances it was felt necessary to pass a severe sentence upon the prisoner, and the sentence was, that he should be transported beyond the seas for the term of his natural life.   The prisoner dropped senseless in the dock, on hearing the sentence." Read in isolation, one could almost think this was a report from a present day trial, apart from the sentence. I do have an interest in this case as I believe George COKER the accused in the case may be a related to my own family, my 2 x Great Grandfather John COOPER, was also known as John COKER and lived in the same village, Harefield, as George COKER, I suspect that George may have been John's nephew but as yet have not been able to prove this. The case at the time was something of a "cause celebre" as their had been another death involving a knife in nearby Hayes shortly before, but in this case the accused, Francis Hastings MEDHURST, came from a wealthy family and whilst he did not get away with it, he received a much lesser sentence, causing some upset not only to the local populace, but also to the coroner Mr WAKLEY, who had a falling out with the local magistrates when the case of George COKER arose. If anyone is interested I have transcripts of all the Times reports for both the COKER and MEDHURST trials and would be happy to supply copies off-list. Regards Colin Harris Yeading, Middlesex

I am trying to help a friend out with her family history. She says her father was an ARP in Harrow Weald during WW2. Can anyone point me in a direction to find out more? Thanks Carole Brett

I liked the term "aberration of intellect" in the other item! It would be interesting to introduce it into conversation!!especially with people who fulminate against political correctness. Jeanette > Well, wouldn't it be interesting to know what became of the lad COKER.... >> From Jackson's Oxford Journal ( Oxford, England ), Saturday, September >> 28,1839; Issue 4509. >> >> Petitions have been presented to Government for commutation of sentence >> on the lad COKER , convicted at the Central Criminal Court of >> manslaughter of Moses GATES , fishmonger, at Uxbridge, and sentenced to >> 15 years' transportation, but Lord NORMANBY "sees no reason for >> advising her Majesty to grant any mitigation," Noble Secretary >> adding, "that should the convict at a future time, from good conduct >> in the colony to which he may be sent, merit the recommendation and >> approbation of the Governor thereof, he will then be ready to consider >> the case with a view to some mitigation of the sentence." >> >> ************************************** the body of the message