Hi Ray, I also have been unable to locate any records of Apples predecessor Jacobs/Union Church near Thurmont in Frederick Co, MD. It is probable that some of our DOTTER.., CLEMMER, HERTE, JUNG/YOUNG families were members there at Jacobs/Union after migrating down from Adams co, PA. The HERTEs are also on my low priority "persons of interest" list but have not researched them because I see our chances of them helping us as being slim?? Maybe some day? I corresponded with Ron Dodderer for a decade up to 3 or 4 yrs ago when I gave up on him after hearing annually that he would publish next yr and hearing numerous theories without support. What significant have you received from him in recent yrs? Thanks again for your continued pursuit. Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, LEDBETTER, GORDON & YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, BROWNLEE, SEE, CLEMMER, DETTRO.. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Totherow, Clemmer, Jung/Young/Herte families of 1700s Frederick Co, MD Dear Hal, The only Hertes in the church records index is the couple I referred to previously, Rutholf and Eva Herte, for which Baltzer Toderer served as a baptismal sponsor of one of their children in 1781, Here are all the records for that couple: Anna Barbara dau. of Rutholf and Eva Herte, b. 22 June 1777, bp. 1 July 1781. Sponsor: Conrath Lechleider. Johannes, son of Rutholf and Eva Herte, b. 6 Oct. 1778, bp. 1 July 1781. Sponsor: Christ. Bincke Rutholf, son of Rutholf and Eva Herte, b. 27 Feb1781, bp. 1 July 1781. Sponsor: Baltzer Toderer Note that all three of these children were baptized on the same date. Perhaps this is about the time the couple became associated with Apple's Church. The name Rutholf (Rudolf) may provide a possible clue. Ron Dodderer thinks that Baltzer Toderer had a possible Rudolf Dodderer ancester. So, is it possible the Dodderers and Hertes were related? The upper Monocacy settlement was the area along the upper reaches of the Monocacy river in which Apple's church was situated, north of Thurmont. In 1760, Peter Apple deeded an acre of land to three trustees to be used as a schoolhouse. In 1768, these trustees redeeded the land to officers of a union congregation which had already been formed by that time, This original union churh was named Jacobs. The first records of this union church, which became Apples, did not start until 1773, and Lutheran and Reformed records were kept in the same church book.. Best Regards, Ray On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:16:18 -0700 "Hal McCawley" <[email protected]> writes: Thanks Ray for that extensive work on Apples... Church Records of Frederick Co, MD. We just ret from 2 wks vacation in SF/Sacramento area and starting to make a shaky tree of your data attached above. I had seen some of that data before. Your expanded data leaves me hanging but still suspecting that my gf Peter YOUNG/JUNG b bef 1777 and Catherine DETTRO [d/o Balzer] likely first crossed paths in Apples Church in the 1780s bef Balzer TOTHEROW/DETTRO left for Rowan Co, NC ca 1784. The Joh. Peter YOUNG listed in your Apples data as b 21 Mar 1775 being s/o Wm & Juliana YOUNG is the ideal age for my dead end gf Peter that m Balzer's dau Catherine in 1802 Rowan Co, NC?? Interesting that neither Balzer or the HERTEs appear later in the Apple records??? And I don't remember seeing the HERTEs in Rowan Co or Lincoln Cos, NC records?? Did/can you search your new records for the HERTE name? Do you know where the "Upper Monocracy Hundred" was located in Frederick Co, MD? So goes genealogy! Thanks again for your efforts beyond the call! You guys and Len are the eldest [most persevering] and best [and only!] contacts I have remaining for my 1700s DETHRO/CLEMMER/YOUNGs. I hope you all are younger than I and in good health!! Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, LEDBETTER, GORDON & YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, BROWNLEE, SEE, CLEMMER, DETTRO.. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Balzer Totherow Dear Hal, Guess you think I forgot about this request. It's been extremely hot back east for the past several weeks, giving me a chance to get caught up on inside work. Here is the attached list of all Jungs/Youngs/etc. in the referenced church records. Best Regards, Ray On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:57:57 -0700 "Hal McCawley" <[email protected]> writes: R & A, were there some YOUNG/JUNGs in those records? Our Peter YOUNG's fam may also have passed through that ch?? Indeed, that may have been where Peter YOUNG & Catherine DETTRO first met across the board in the church??? Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, LEDBETTER, GORDON & YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, BROWNLEE, SEE, CLEMMER, DETTRO.. ----- Original Message ----- From: alby6 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: Balzer Totherow Hi Gang, I just recently found another reference to Balser Totherow in Frederick County, MD. We just purchased a volume of translations of the church records for the two churches in the area in which he lived near Creagerstown. The churches are Creagerstown Union Church and Apple's Church, which was originally located just north of Thurmont. The publication is "Maryland German Church Records, Volume 11" translated by Frederick S. Weiser and published by the Carroll County Historical Society, Westminster, MD. I found Balser in the Apple's Union Church Records. He served as sponsor for the baptism of Rutholf, son of Rutholf and Eva Herte, who was born 27 Feb 1781, and baptized 1 July 1781. His name was spelled Baltzer Toderer. The records are for the years 1773 - 1849. That was the only reference to him. The records for the Creagerstown Union Church are for 1789 - 1863, so Balzer was already in NC when that church was founded about 1787. Ray and Agnes Yount ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Lawyer Criminal Lawyers - Click here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. 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Here is a bit from Wrights newspaper extractions Maryland Chronicle April 4, 1787 "Conrad Dotterer, living at the mouth of Pipe Creek where it runs into the Moncasy...." It goes on to describe his German indentured servant who has run away. Same paper April 25, 1787 "Conrad Dotterer forwards(forwarns?)persons that he will not will not pay bond passed to John Shroyer many years ago in consideration of a piece of land for which he hath not conveyed." Frederick Independent Volunteer March 16, 1808 "I inform the public that some time ago Benjamin Biggs did come to Conrad Dotteror's house and made mention that if he did not withdraw the suits he had against his brothers, he would receive considerable damage in future; and since that time the said Mr. Dotterer has had three three barns burnt. I caution all persons agnst offending William Biggs, Frederick Biggs and Jos. Biggs for said Biggs have taken Mr. Dotterer's rails & etc. - Jacob Grace." There are quite a few Duddero etc in Myers' Marriage Records of Frederick County with the following spellings: Dudderer, Duddero, Dutterar, Duttero, Tutterer and Tutterow. In Rice's This Was the Life there is a case before the November court of 1760 against John Tutteraw "for getting a baseborn child on the body of Mary Cyder by information of said Mary." >From Passano's Source Records of Maryland Dutrow - History of Frederick County by Williams Tombstone inscriptions. Some descendants of Philip Duttera (or Dotterer). 1934, Lutheran Cemetery, Middletown, Ferderick Co. p. 135; Mt. Olivet Cemeter, Frederick Co. p. 135 - Maryland Historical Society. >From Brumbaugh's Maryland Records Voting list Pres. Election of 1796 for Fred. County Balser Dutrow Michael Dutrow George Dutrow Jacob Dutrow John Dutrow Conrad Dutrow Jr. Conrad Dutrow (3 entries)d Lauren Brantner --- On Mon, 8/1/11, Hal McCawley <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Hal McCawley <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MDWashin] Totherow, Clemmer, Jung/Young/Herte families of 1700s Frederick Co, MD > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], "PA Adams-L" <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], "MDPGEORG-L" <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 12:59 PM > Hi Ray, >     I also have been unable to locate any records > of Apples predecessor Jacobs/Union Church near Thurmont in > Frederick Co, MD.  It is probable that some of our > DOTTER.., CLEMMER, HERTE, JUNG/YOUNG families were members > there at Jacobs/Union after migrating down from Adams co, > PA. >     The HERTEs are also on my low priority > "persons of interest" list but have not researched them > because I see our chances of them helping us as being > slim??  Maybe some day? >     I corresponded with Ron Dodderer for a decade > up to 3 or 4 yrs ago when I gave up on him after hearing > annually that he would publish next yr and hearing numerous > theories without support.  What significant have you > received from him in recent yrs? > Thanks again for your continued pursuit. > Best, > Hal McCawley  4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 > 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] > Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, LEDBETTER, GORDON & > YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, BROWNLEE, SEE,  > CLEMMER, DETTRO.. > > > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: [email protected] >   To: [email protected] >   Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] ; > [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > >   Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:44 AM >   Subject: Re: Totherow, Clemmer, Jung/Young/Herte > families of 1700s Frederick Co, MD > > >   Dear Hal, > >   The only Hertes in the church records index is the > couple I referred to previously, Rutholf and Eva Herte, for > which Baltzer Toderer served as a baptismal sponsor of one > of their children in 1781,  Here are all the records > for that couple: > >           Anna Barbara dau. of > Rutholf and Eva Herte, b. 22 June 1777, bp. 1 July 1781. > Sponsor:              >    Conrath Lechleider. > >           Johannes, son of Rutholf > and Eva Herte, b. 6 Oct. 1778, bp. 1 July 1781. Sponsor: > Christ.              >    Bincke > >           Rutholf, son of Rutholf > and Eva Herte, b. 27 Feb1781, bp. 1 July 1781. Sponsor: > Baltzer              >    Toderer > >   Note that all three of these children were baptized > on the same date.  Perhaps this is about the time the > couple became associated with Apple's Church. > >   The name Rutholf (Rudolf) may provide a possible > clue.  Ron Dodderer thinks that Baltzer Toderer had a > possible Rudolf Dodderer ancester.  So, is it possible > the Dodderers and Hertes were related? > >   The upper Monocacy settlement was the area along the > upper reaches of the Monocacy river in which Apple's church > was situated, north of Thurmont.  In 1760, Peter Apple > deeded an acre of land to three trustees to be used as a > schoolhouse.  In 1768, these trustees redeeded the land > to officers of a union congregation which had already been > formed by that time,  This original union churh was > named Jacobs.  The first records of this union church, > which became Apples, did not start until 1773, and Lutheran > and Reformed records were kept in the same church book.. > >   Best Regards, >   Ray > >   On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:16:18 -0700 "Hal McCawley" > <[email protected]> > writes: >     Thanks Ray for that extensive work on > Apples... Church Records of Frederick Co, MD. >     We just ret from 2 wks vacation in > SF/Sacramento area and starting to make a shaky tree of your > data attached above. >     I had seen some of that data before.  > Your expanded data leaves me hanging but still suspecting > that my gf Peter YOUNG/JUNG b bef 1777 and Catherine DETTRO > [d/o Balzer] likely first crossed paths in Apples Church in > the 1780s bef Balzer TOTHEROW/DETTRO left for Rowan Co, NC > ca 1784.  The Joh. Peter YOUNG listed in your Apples > data as b 21 Mar 1775 being s/o Wm & Juliana YOUNG is > the ideal age for my dead end gf Peter that m Balzer's dau > Catherine in 1802 Rowan Co, NC?? >     Interesting that neither Balzer or the HERTEs > appear later in the Apple records???  And I don't > remember seeing the HERTEs in Rowan Co or Lincoln Cos, NC > records??  >     Did/can you search your new records for the > HERTE name? >     Do you know where the "Upper Monocracy > Hundred" was located in Frederick Co, MD? >     So goes genealogy! >     Thanks again for your efforts beyond the > call! >     You guys and Len are the eldest [most > persevering] and best [and only!] contacts I have remaining > for my 1700s DETHRO/CLEMMER/YOUNGs.  I hope you all are > younger than I and in good health!! >     Best, >     Hal McCawley  4178 Pindar Way, > Oceanside, CA 92056 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] >     Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, LEDBETTER, > GORDON & >     YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, BROWNLEE, > SEE,  CLEMMER, DETTRO.. > > >       >     ----- Original Message ----- >     From: [email protected] >     To: [email protected] >     Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > >     Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:41 PM >     Subject: Re: Balzer Totherow > > >     Dear Hal, > >     Guess you think I forgot about this > request.  It's been extremely hot back east for the > past several weeks, giving me a chance to get caught up on > inside work.  Here is the attached list of all > Jungs/Youngs/etc. in the referenced church records. > >     Best Regards, >     Ray > >     On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:57:57 -0700 "Hal > McCawley" <[email protected]> > writes: >       R & A, were there some YOUNG/JUNGs > in those records? >       Our Peter YOUNG's fam may also have > passed through that ch?? >       Indeed, that may have been where Peter > YOUNG & Catherine DETTRO first met across the board in > the church??? >       Best, >       Hal McCawley  4178 Pindar Way, > Oceanside, CA 92056 1-760-941-4716 [email protected] >       Researching McCAULEY, TUCKER, > LEDBETTER, GORDON & >       YOUNG, SANDERS, WILSON, CHRISTIAN, > BROWNLEE, SEE,  CLEMMER, DETTRO.. > > >         >         ----- Original Message ----- >         From: alby6 >         To: [email protected] >         Cc: [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] > ; [email protected] >         Sent: Tuesday, February 02, > 2010 7:42 AM >         Subject: Balzer Totherow > > >         Hi Gang, > >         I just recently found another > reference to Balser Totherow in Frederick County, MD.  > We just purchased a volume of translations of the church > records for the two churches in the area in which he lived > near Creagerstown.  The churches are Creagerstown Union > Church and Apple's Church, which was originally located just > north of Thurmont.  The publication is "Maryland German > Church Records, Volume 11" translated by Frederick S. Weiser > and published by the Carroll County Historical Society, > Westminster, MD. > >         I found Balser in the Apple's > Union Church Records.  He served as sponsor for the > baptism of Rutholf, son of Rutholf and Eva Herte, who was > born 27 Feb 1781, and baptized 1 July 1781.  His name > was spelled Baltzer Toderer.  The records are for the > years 1773 - 1849.  That was the only reference to him. > > >         The records for the > Creagerstown Union Church are for 1789 - 1863, so Balzer was > already in NC when that church was founded about 1787. > >         Ray and Agnes Yount > > > > >         > ____________________________________________________________ > >         Criminal Lawyer >         Criminal Lawyers - Click here. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >         No virus found in this incoming > message. >         Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >         Version: 8.5.432 / Virus > Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 09:08:00 > > > > > >   > ____________________________________________________________ >   Penny Stock Jumping 3000% >   Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for > free today! >   AwesomePennyStocks.com > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MDWASHIN > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >